End of the Ferguson Era

[mypost]

The league is long since over. Chelsea wrapped it up weeks ago. They had to, after spending all that money. They'll win it by about 15-20 points.

Just like to remind Trevor Welch, who joyously declared on TV3 yesterday that "the gap at the top (of the league) is down to 8".

Eh, no it isn't mate. It's up to 11 now, and growing. :)

[KR's Post]

I still think that chelsea will bottle it... After a performance like uniteds the other night, totally destroying a team unbeaten at home since may 2003, you cant write them off. Remember chelsea only got a 2-2 draw at highbury..... And i know the gap is 11 points but united have been there before with bigger gaps and won it. Chelsea haven't expierienced this pressure ever and i firmly believe that they will sink.... Back united at 10/1 now. It's worth a flutter... Remember chelsea failed to beat Man City earlier in the season and might falter again, and with Robben out now for a couple of weeks there fluency might vanish..... United to win the title by 4 points and to go unbeaten until the end of the season. Everybody is talking about chelsea winning everything, but again i believe United can win the F.A. Cup, Premiership and the way they are performing in Europe the Champions league aswell. They have done it before........ ;) :D

[Closed Account 2]

I think Chelsea will win it at Old Trafford.

[mypost]

I still think that chelsea will bottle it... Chelsea haven't expierienced this pressure ever and i firmly believe that they will sink.

They haven't experienced this pressure ever??? Who finished 2nd last season? Chelsea, ahead of United. Furthermore, several of their foreign players have won league titles with their previous clubs before, so they know what it takes to win league championships. And their coach has only won leagues, cups, and the European Cup with Porto!! See, plenty of experience there.

Before midweek, the gap was 10 points, now it's 11, and 11 points is a daunting gap to chase. You simply don't give Mourinho a 11-point lead, and recover. With their limitless budget, I expect Chelsea to turn the Premiership into a one-team title race for the next few seasons. Everyone else will have to try to win the cups instead.

[dr_peepee]

i don't really see chelsea dominating football for an extended period. Aside from John Terry I can't really percieve any one player having the kind of staying power to remain at Chelsea and challenge year after year. Roy Keane, Irwin, Giggs et all strived for that next title in a Manchester shirt well after what would be a saturation point for most of the current Chelsea team.

What i mean is that Chelsea may well win the league this year and probably next but I would bet any money that the Carvalho's, the Drogba's and I'd even say Lampard will move on to sample title challenges in other leagues simply because they'll feel they've acheived all they wanted in a Chelsea shirt. They don't live Chelsea the way Terry does, or the way Keane does at united.

I forseee a huge turnover of players at chelsea over the coming years, regardless of the level of success.

[Closed Account 2]

I see on the news today Malcolm Glazer has put in another bid for the largest corporate name in football, Manchester United PLC. The football club's CEO, Mr David Gill says he has received "definitive proposals" from Glazer. Speculation that the club will be sold has seen shares rise by 10.3p (from Friday to today), and it is thought that the American multi-billionaire will offer 300p per share (current value is 279p).

Personally I see Glazer getting the club this time, business tycoons rarely fail to get what they want especially if they are as determined as Glazer. Also it hinges on the reaction of Irish Businessmen, J. Magnier and J.P. McManus who own around 30% of the club. They recently experienced the wrath of fans, angry at the pair's attempts to investigate team coach, Alex Ferguson's role in transfers. Consequently one would imagine that if offered enough money they would sell up. Once Glazer's on board I think Ferguson will walk away (he's already made his objections to Glazer clear via his support of fans groups etc).

[Longfordian]

But from M&M's point of view why sell now when you know individual broadcast rights are coming and the shares will be worth a lot more..Why do you reckon Glazer's interested now?. He doesn't have enough money to go much higher, he's already borrowing huge amounts to try and fund this deal. As a United fan, it'd be a terrible day if the 'evil gnome' as United fans are calling him got his hands on the club

[Macy]

All depends on the current board. They have to have grounds to not recommend the takeover - there's still a large amount of debt tied to the deal, just done a different way. Glazer's banks say they won't back a hostile bid, so it's down to the board.

If the tax dodgers were out for revenge they would've sold at the last bid - as Longfordian says, Glazer's punting on the next TV deal, do people think that McManus and Magnier got all their money by not being bright enough to see the long term view? At the last bid time, the perception was that they'd be looking for 310p a share, which Glazer still isn't getting near (and hasn't the money to offer).

We'll wait and see I suppose. Obviously the ideal would be for the fans to own enough to block a bid (Thanks to fartin that was never going to happen), but the uncertainty is no different from a team being the plaything of one person who could get bored any time, or a team risking their financial secruity on a new ground....

[Closed Account 2]

But from M&M's point of view why sell now when you know individual broadcast rights are coming and the shares will be worth a lot more..Why do you reckon Glazer's interested now?. He doesn't have enough money to go much higher, he's already borrowing huge amounts to try and fund this deal. As a United fan, it'd be a terrible day if the 'evil gnome' as United fans are calling him got his hands on the club


Well I wouldn’t bet against him getting the club. He's been bidding for them for over a year now, each time he's rejected he comes back with an even bigger offer. The PLC (ie whole business rather than team) has produced huge profits (for a sports team) year on year, so is a very attractive investment proposition. He has already got the huge bank JP Morgan involved in the bid, so imo its likely he'll be able to get other investors on board if push comes to shove he can offer them a permanent percentage instead of getting a more direct loan for the take over. I think the two from Cubic Expression are just holding out for the right price. They’ve already seen that they’ve difficulty running the PLC the way they want (e.g. Glazer voting out members of the board, and to a lesser extent protests at race tracks after the investigation over Ferguson) so may they well sell up and invest in something else. This wouldnt be a problem fro Glazer as he would have more concrete control over the board and as most of his other investments are in the USA, similar fan protests would have little impact on him.

I don’t think he's just after the individual broadcasting rights (if that scenario does arrive) but more concerned about getting his hands on the vast global brand. Individual broadcasting is not yet a certainly, much depends on either the Premier League or UEFA. On the other hand the global brand is already established. Manchester United merchandise sells very well, especially in the far east which contains many of the worlds fastest growing economies (eg India, China etc). With the clubs diversification into non-football products (eg "MU Finance" - essentially a loan/credit company with no relation to football at all), its a very attractive proposition to any investor. Simply put, from an investor's point of view a lot of the PLC's "products" sell very well in countries with rapidly growing economies (irrespective of the team’s results it would seem) - this means if the company can churning out merchandise it will continue to sell more units. So if Glazer takes over he could make even more profit by concentrating on the merchandise sales side of the business instead of team strengthening.

[Longfordian]

That'll count for naught when the hitman comes round ;) ..Seriously though if he did get his hands on the club there would be uproar amongst almost all sections of the United support, feelings are running high with talk of (Rovers style ;) ) boycotts of games and picketing, the fans could make life miserable for whichever of his representatives he puts in charge, probably his son.

It would be up there with the most unpopular takeovers ever, suicidal almost for any of the current board to accept the offer and if he chose not to spend on the team, where does the success come from, success on the pitch=money off the pitch. If you alienate the hardcore, the prawn sandwich brigade aren't a long term bunch. If success dries up they're off to Chelsea or Arsenal.

[wws]

I think its unrealistic for people to expect anything else - its a publicly traded company - this is what you get! United fans and various groupings will huff and puff but it doesnt make a whit of difference - money talks and Glazer's just another buyer for a commodity - its not as if the fat cats who own most of it already arent a bunch of profiteering bastids who dnt care a hoot about the club or its traditions - its time united fans woke up to business realities

[Longfordian]

While to a certain extent it's been inevitable since flotation a main reason for United fans' opposition is that Glazer is esentially hoping to buy the club and use the club and its assets to pay off his costs accrued in buying it, leaving him with control of an £800m company with feck all personal investment from himself. Most revenues generated would go back into paying his enormous loans, meaning hugely jacked up ticket prices and feck all money being spent on the team, it's not like it's going to be an Abramovich situation.

At least at the moment it's being run prudently and making good profits each year, hard to see how that would continue if it were saddled with hundreds of millions worth of debt. He was talking about a sale and lease back of the ground in his previous bid, it's disaster waiting to happen

[Macy]

Well I wouldn’t bet against him getting the club. He's been bidding for them for over a year now, each time he's rejected he comes back with an even bigger offer.
No he hasn't - the bid isn't bigger, just has the debt structured in a different way. I remain hopeful that the board will not recommend this to the shareholders. If they do recommend it, let the dirty war begin in earnest.

[wws]

they can only refuse it if they have some bona fide financial objection apparnetly - the deal this time is financed more on his assets than man uniteds existing - so looks a no brainer

I look forward to the companys aggressive expansion into the United States and the moving of the franchise to Albaquerke (sp?) :D

[thejollyrodger]

Man Utd have probles all over the pitch. They need a new keeper, a brilliant keeper to start with. Howard might be ok for a number 2.

In the center of the park the need a new holding midfield player, I dont think Roy is pulling the strings like he used to. A replacement for scholes is needed too. Giggs is passed it, rarely produces it now. Ronaldo is a wait and see, he has all the flicks but isnt very effective.

RVN is world class and just needs a few games. Rooney has yet to prove himself at the highest level (i.e champions league) and I dont rate him yet as good as RVN. Probably just needs another season or two.

Fergie has to go IMO, look at the United bench versus Milans bench, all the crap players fergie bought when they are clearly not up to the job. Too many poor decisons from an old man IMO. I cant see United challanging for Europe for a few more seasons

[anto1208]

fergie has made 2 huge mistakes this season 1 buying rooney instead of a keeper a defender and a midfeilder . 2 was his tactics at old trafford in the first leg .

plus all the bad buys he has made jemba jemba kleberson miller silvestre howard .

[OwlsFan]

If he had put out his strongest side against Fernabace in the last game he would not have been facing AC Milan but Werder Bremen instead. He would have beatne them and with Van Nettlesoup back match fit his team would have been better prepared.

Whatever would Mick mcCarthy say about such a naieve decision :p

[Closed Account 2]

I cant see United challanging for Europe for a few more seasons

I agree with that, they seem to be standing still in terms of ability while a lot of the other big teams around them (Juve, Milan, Barca, Chelsea) have improved. He's brought 3 strikers (Smith, Saha and Rooney) over the past year or so each costing a significant amount of money, when he might have been better investing in one of either a decent goalie, holding midfielder or center back.

[Eire06]

That was the nail in the coffin last night

Wonder when will Fergie retire?? :confused:
Will he wait and see can united come back..
Should have done it 2 seasons ago when united were still doing well and end on a high..

[Duffer]

Eh jumping the gun or wha?
They've been beaten by the team who imo will go on and lift the cl, milan are a world class side much higher standard side than united at the moment.
As for Giggs being past it he's just recovered from injury before that he was in flying form scoring in I think 4 of the previous games, I'm sure someone will have the correct stats.
Fergie has fluffed up on the buying this season but when hasn't he, he's always tended to get excited and buy one too many of what was required.
This situation is not alien to united it's just now they have competition who when they slip up are there to slip ahead up until 4 or 5 years ago this wasn't the case and united could afford the slip ups.
I wouldn't be putting fergie into the retirement home just yet I have faith he'll be back.

[M@ttitude]

Looks like united will get a big cash injection in the summer after Glazer takes over, so they'll get a keeper then (hopefully save Given from that dyer team he's at), Then all they need really is a Keano replacement, next year could be Millers year, Keane and Fergie really rate him. I hate the Man U scum but I can see them bouncing back next year and surprising everyone.

[Poor Student]

Then all they need really is a Keano replacement, next year could be Millers year, Keane and Fergie really rate him.

Believe it or not Liam Miller is now 24 and has yet to have ever established himself as regular in his professional career. It's getting a bit late for it to be his year.

[M@ttitude]

His first season wasn't a success at united!! Didnt really get enough time to show himself with man u going through the menopause, but just dont write him off yet.

[pete]

Manchester Uinted haven't made a CL final since they were lucky to win it. Think they've only made one semi final since then too. Ironically they seem to have tightened their defense but with all their forwards now lack goals.

Keane will only get worse, Giggs and Scholes haven't the motivation anymore.

[Thunderblaster]

Good riddance to Ferguson when he goes and long live the demise of Manchester United. The pomp and arrogance since 1990 was disgusting.

[stojkovic]

Manchester Uinted haven't made a CL final since they were lucky to win it. Think they've only made one semi final since then too. Ironically they seem to have tightened their defense but with all their forwards now lack goals.

Keane will only get worse, Giggs and Scholes haven't the motivation anymore.
Since United won it in 1999, they have only won ONE match over two legs. Forget that group stage nonsense. The beat Deportivo in the QFs in 2001. Every other year they have been knocked out 'at the first hurdle'.

[Hibs4Ever]

I see Fergie is in the paper today slagging off Chelsea. AGAIN. Such a bitter, jealous pr*ck

[Colm55]

Good riddance to Ferguson when he goes and long live the demise of Manchester United. The pomp and arrogance since 1990 was disgusting.

..... all hail the new pomp and arrogance of Chelsea .....

[Closed Account 2]

They looked shocking tonight, their "star" defender was beaten all ends up for the Everton goal, they were blunt upfront didnt look like doing anything in terms of scoring.

Two of the supposedly clamer "older heads" got sent off, Neville should have known you cant kick the ball into the crowd like that when play is stopped. Scholes essentially just kicked Kilbane in the balls and that is always going to be at least a yellow, Ronaldo booked for another blatent dive...

That team looks a pale shadow of its former strength, and with major signings needed in central midfield, goalkeeper and perhaps a central defender in the summer, where will all the money come from to sign those players ? Their PLC have said they blew all the money on Rooney... They have three basic choices, get money by loaning against the ground/season ticket sales etc, get money by selling players, or sell the club to new investors. If they dont rebuild the team urgently they'll get left behind in Europe and the Premiership.

[Green Tribe]

that was not good viewing for manutd fans, i watched the highlights tonight :rolleyes: i thought fergie was going to rip into moyes at one point, hilarious. naughty neville, lucky the everton fans didn't attack him. :eek:

[SÓC]

that was not good viewing for manutd fans, i watched the highlights tonight :rolleyes: i thought fergie was going to rip into moyes at one point, hilarious. naughty neville, lucky the everton fans didn't attack him. :eek:

Neville kicked the ball at a young fella in the stand, stupid fcuker deserves to be banned for a few matches.

Then Scholes somehow managed only to get a second yellow for giving Kilbane a kick, never intended going for the ball, cant understand why that wasnt a straight red.

[Macy]

They have three basic choices, get money by loaning against the ground/season ticket sales etc, get money by selling players, or sell the club to new investors.
How about taking it out of profits? No need for debt - they have the money. Just the board won't spend more than a certain figure a year, without selling first (and that's wage bill as much transfer fee). United don't have debt at the moment (obviously that could all change if the poison dwarf takes over), it's nothing to do with the club not having the money just the way the club manages the money. Are you Glazer in disguise with those 3 "basic" choices that there's no need to get involved with?

[anto1208]

They looked shocking tonight, their "star" defender was beaten all ends up for the Everton goal, they were blunt upfront didnt look like doing anything in terms of scoring.

Two of the supposedly clamer "older heads" got sent off, Neville should have known you cant kick the ball into the crowd like that when play is stopped. Scholes essentially just kicked Kilbane in the balls and that is always going to be at least a yellow, Ronaldo booked for another blatent dive...

That team looks a pale shadow of its former strength, and with major signings needed in central midfield, goalkeeper and perhaps a central defender in the summer, where will all the money come from to sign those players ? Their PLC have said they blew all the money on Rooney... They have three basic choices, get money by loaning against the ground/season ticket sales etc, get money by selling players, or sell the club to new investors. If they dont rebuild the team urgently they'll get left behind in Europe and the Premiership.

i said this earlier in this thread that buying rooney was a huge mistake when they needed a keeper defender and 2 midfielders .

they are going to have to find the cash from some where coz they owe everton another 10 mill this year 11 if they win the fa cup !. and 5 the following year .

scholes was very dirty last night could have been sent off ny half time fully deserved a straight red for lashing out at kilbane . neville as well you cant kick a ball into the face of some kid in the family enclosure with out expecting a red .

everton deserved it last night thats 4 points off utd this season !!! :D

plus one of my mates sits behind the away dugout rooney asked to be taken off 3 times during the game he was nt happy . colleen is going to get a few slaps !! :eek: :D

[NeilMcD]

[

scholes was very dirty last night could have been sent off ny half time fully deserved a straight red for lashing out at kilbane . neville as well you cant kick a ball into the face of some kid in the family enclosure with out expecting a red .




I am sure that Gary Neville did not think oh its the family enclosure and I am going to kick it into some kids face. It does not work that way he was ****ed off and he seemed to have a chip on his shoulder all night and he kicked the ball in frustration. If it happens to hit a kida in the family enclosure well thats unfortunate. He deserved to be sent off but people always try to make it sound worse but throwing in things like family enlosure and bringing kids into etc. The fact was he kicked the ball into the crowd and that cant be defended and he was rightly sent off and so was Scholes too. Utd really lost the rag last night I thougt.

So who do people thing should replace Ferguson if he goes.

I think Capello would do a good job for them.

[Closed Account 2]

How about taking it out of profits? No need for debt - they have the money. Just the board won't spend more than a certain figure a year, without selling first (and that's wage bill as much transfer fee).

Well thats true they do make a fair bit of profit each year. But as I understand it, as a PLC the amount of money they spend has/will have a huge impact on share price. It think if they spent a lot of their profits on transfer fees, and the signings didnt come off, then the share price could plummet. Being a PLC is a mixed blessing, share price really affects the club, both on and off the field.

The other thing to bear in mind is Man Utd's other expenses. The stadium increase this summer will cost a lot of money, also if they offer Ferdinand his £120,000 then (assuming they have a wage structure) this will bump up other players wages by a significant amount, if they dont give him that wage then he could well leave on a bosman, leaving them out of pocket and having to shell out for a new center back. Also I dont think Ferguson will still be manager in 2-3 years, the new manager will need cash to build his own team, and in that time players like Roy Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Neville will have retired (or at the very least will be that bit older and could well have passed the peak of their game). At the moment there seems to be a bit of lack of young players of genuine quality coming through the youth system, so it looks like money will have to be spent.

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=NeilMcD][

I am sure that Gary Neville did not think oh its the family enclosure and I am going to kick it into some kids face.

QUOTE]
ID normally belive that but for the fact utd got in piles of trouble for inciting the same fans in the same spot last year .but at least he got punished and that should be the end of it .

[Éanna]

ID normally belive that but for the fact utd got in piles of trouble for inciting the same fans in the same spot last year .but at least he got punished and that should be the end of it .
Gary Neville is a petulant runt with a massive attitude problem. I hope they throw the book at the whiney little prat

[Soper]

Gary Neville is a petulant runt with a massive attitude problem. I hope they throw the book at the whiney little prat
Remember the Manchester derby, when schmeichel was playing for City?(United lost)
Neviles attitude that day was digusting, and henceforth has made me hate him even more.

[Éanna]

Remember the Manchester derby, when schmeichel was playing for City?(United lost)
Neviles attitude that day was digusting, and henceforth has made me hate him even more.
not really. I don't tend to watch premiership football that much- just the goals. But Neville always comes across as an utterly detestable individual.

[Soper]

Well, he was captain that day.He wouldn't shake schmeichels hand, and details are a bit skechy, but I think he was at blame for the 2 goals.Perfect match for the Gary Neville haters amongst us.

[Roo69]

So who do people thing should replace Ferguson if he goes.

I think Capello would do a good job for them.


Certianly not O'Neill anyway. I've always liked Moyes as a manager, was tipped for the united no. 2 post a few years back. I reckon he could do a very good job at Man U.

[ciaran76]

But Neville always comes across as an utterly detestable individual.


Thats because he is ! :(