No Club got a licence

[Terry]

according to the new chairman for GUFC Niall O' Rielly if a premier club fails to get a premier licence they can be relegated to the first division, IF, a first division club gets a premier licence (which is what GUFC will get on appeal). The promotion to the premier division will be offered to the highest finishing club from last season e.g. dublin city will be first as the were relegated, then Kildare for finishing fourth, then Galway and so on....

With all the clubs failing there is definitely going to be a few of them failing the appeal also!!! INTERESTING TIMES AHEAD :)

[patsh]

Read your own post again Patsh.

They're not saying any 'aul duplicate of the forms is acceptable - rather that it must be an OFFICIAL duplicate from the ISSUING BODY. If you lose a certificate of Incorporation for a Limited Company, no-one is gonna accept a photocopy that you did along with your word as proof that it's kosher.

Companies House will do you a replacement for a fee, though it may well be labelled as a replacement certificate.
Read my post again. All I said was that it would be easy enough to beileve that a photocopy will do. I know what the actual thing says, all I'm saying is that it's not too hard to get the impression a copy will do. There are reams of this stuff there, and people can make small mistakes.
The Licencing committee also claimed they were there to help the clubs. A phone call a week or two ago would have sorted out this kind of "administrative error" and could have avoided the extremely damaging PR disaster we had yesterday.

[MariborKev]

according to the new chairman for GUFC Niall O' Rielly if a premier club fails to get a premier licence they can be relegated to the first division, IF, a first division club gets a premier licence (which is what GUFC will get on appeal).

Was the manual not changed so that only Premier Division clubs could attain Premier Division licences, First Division clubs get First Division clubs and the euro entrants Euro Licences?

[Macy]

I'm talking about Sports Council funding for capital projects. Clubs who have propsals to improve facilities apply for these via the FAI, as we will be doing for our stadium relocation.
Given our experiences, I wouldn't count on it. Broken promises, getting paid less than agreed, no sign of last years grant etc etc... :rolleyes:

[patsh]

A quote from Bob Breen, the FAI licensing manager:
"We have got situations where clubs have actually complied with the financial criteria and done the real difficult things and then they have failed to supply a document either in its original format or a document that hasn't been signed off which is a purely administrative thing and they are items that can be put right overnight"

Well Mr. Breen, if it could have been put right overnight, why not allow the clubs in question to "put it right" last week, and thus avoid the huge PR disaster for the eL?
W@nker....:mad:

[Terry]

Was the manual not changed so that only Premier Division clubs could attain Premier Division licences, First Division clubs get First Division clubs and the euro entrants Euro Licences?


Im not sure what is stated on the manual, this is what I picked up from the AGM last night when asked about the possibility of getting promoted if aquiring a premier licence

[fosterdollar]

A quote from Bob Breen, the FAI licensing manager:
"We have got situations where clubs have actually complied with the financial criteria and done the real difficult things and then they have failed to supply a document either in its original format or a document that hasn't been signed off which is a purely administrative thing and they are items that can be put right overnight"

Well Mr. Breen, if it could have been put right overnight, why not allow the clubs in question to "put it right" last week, and thus avoid the huge PR disaster for the eL?
W@nker....:mad:

I agree with you here Patsh. It rediculous the way the full 22 clubs have all failed like this. And it is pathetic of the FAI to allow them to be effectively ridiculed in the media over merely the supply of "purely administrative" material which, according to them, are correctable overnight. The unfair side of all this is that the clubs look incompetent while the FAI put forward an image of being stringent on official rules, etc. Bull$hit

[pete]

I don't think the FAI should hold the hands of eL clubs but IMO announcing the results the way they have was a PR disaster. The FAI could easily have written to clubs pre-results to get them to fix some minor documents.

Its ridiculous having grants frozen. Do the IRFU or GAA clubs have even a fraction of the regulations that the eL clubs now need cos of licencing??? Discrimination again :(

[BohDiddley]

I agree with you here Patsh. It rediculous the way the full 22 clubs have all failed like this. And it is pathetic of the FAI to allow them to be effectively ridiculed in the media over merely the supply of "purely administrative" material which, according to them, are correctable overnight. The unfair side of all this is that the clubs look incompetent while the FAI put forward an image of being stringent on official rules, etc. Bull$hit

And the media doesn't need much encouragement to ridicule Irish football.

On Morning Ireland just now, Aine Lawlor, who is usually above this sort of nonsense, was having a good ol' sneer, telling Des Cahill, 'Sure they don't even have dressing rooms, do they?'.

There's enough moronic anti-LoI bias around without this sort of PR shambles. Once again raises the question of what the FAI does for LoI, and whether the league would be better off out of that system.

[Macy]

Its ridiculous having grants frozen. Do the IRFU or GAA clubs have even a fraction of the regulations that the eL clubs now need cos of licencing??? Discrimination again :(
Again, what grants? Even for clubs that have held licences?

[patsh]

From http://www.irishfootballonline.com/news_story.php?newsid=2461


Licensing - The next phase

The fall-out from the club licensing debacle is set to run and run, but as things stand clubs must have their appeals lodged by next Wednesday (February 2nd).
It appears now though that clubs could be allowed to take part in the eircom League if they do not have a licence. That however remains to be seen and there could be a string of challenges if for example an unlicensed premier division club takes their place while a compliant first division side sits in the lower division.
The threats over government funding made by interim CEO John Delaney have been less than helpful and the fact that every single league club has failed must point to some basic flaws in the actual process itself.
Having clubs fail on technical points such as presenting copies of documents instead of originals, as has been claimed, could have been overcome with something as simple as a provisional licence. The club is awarded their licence providing they lodge the original documentation within a week, instead of failing them and forcing them through an appeal process.

The blanket statement of "Clubs fail to gain Licenses" has again cast a shadow on the eircom League and the mainstream media and general public will no doubt be thinking back to the registration debacle of the 2001/02 season.

Although the four clubs qualified for European competition must achieve a higher licence again, they do have until May to reach that level. The three clubs involved in All-Ireland cup action should have no problems in financing their work in that regard.

[exile]

taken from www.bohemians.ie (http://www.bohemians.ie)

The FAI has today announced that NO club in the eircom League has been granted an UEFA Licence.

Hopefully this year, the FAI, on the back of their recent windfall Umbro sponsorship deal, might provide some real prize money, and grants, to enable cash-strapped clubs to make the structural changes needed to obtain the relevant licences.

It might also spur the Irish government to provide, even a fraction of the, funding given to other sports in this state.

best statement ive seen on this tpoic

[wws]

I've argued it consistently on this site since the "licensing debate" began.

Licensing is a sham.

Longfordonian also had a telling comment - clubs are telling people they've only this and that wrong etc etc - but who knows? Its a confidential process.

I believe theres a lot of smokescreens here - things like tax clearance certs - legal issues - back payment of wages etc etc are not "administrative oversights"

- sure they might clear these things up on appeal - now that they have a gun to their heads but I believe a lot of the clubs that fialed have substantive issues to sort out


the grants situation is ludicrous - we've had a 1 million grant frozen for 5 years now

ludicrous

my biggest fear as an ordinary punter is that licensing will be used as the mechanism to withold equitable distribution of necessary funding - as usual some clubs will be favoured and the league will go further back into the dark ages

[pineapple stu]

All I said was that it would be easy enough to believe that a photocopy will do.
In fairness, the manual would have laid out quite clearly exactly what was required. If the club can't read it, that's their fault. No point making excuses about it. To say that it would be easy enough to believe that something else was required is all too typical of the lax way clubs in the league have been run in fairness.

[patsh]

In fairness, the manual would have laid out quite clearly exactly what was required. If the club can't read it, that's their fault. No point making excuses about it. To say that it would be easy enough to believe that something else was required is all too typical of the lax way clubs in the league have been run in fairness.
HAve you read the manual?
I've looked through most of it, and "copy" is mentioned time and again. They rfer to official copies, but it's not hard to make a "minor mistake" as Breen on the Licencing committee called them.
My whole point is that if clubs were turned down for a licence on such grounds, wouldn't it be better for the image of the league as a whole if those clubs had been contacted and given a few days to recitify these minor mistakes, instead of the whole debacle of the other day, and all the negative publicity it attracted?

[Milosovici]

What the UEFA Club Licensing needs is to achieve is the right equilibrium between, European, Premier and First Division licences. That all 22-clubs have failed suggests to me only one thing: that the bar has been set too high. The system itself is inherently flawed.

If the overall ambition of the scheme is to raise standards all through the league the fact that every club has failed means that it has failed in this goal. The best run club and the worst, are both in the exact same position as regards licences.

The criteria for setting the licences should have been set at a level that, with a reasonable amount of hard work and effort, a club could hope to achieve. From this basis, each year the process could be enhanced to ensure that no club regresses and that to keep a licence improvements would need to be continually made each year.

If 14 or so clubs achieved a premier licence, which is not an unreasonable proposition, the pressure would be on to maintain that licence as off-pitch matters could see a team relegated to be replaced by a better run first division outfit. Similarly with the European licences, no team would be willing to sacrifice the windfall a run in Europe, with by engaging in 'financial irregularities' or such, knowing that there is another European licensed club easily able to slot into their place.

Unless you believe that the vast majority made no effort to comply with the criteria then, as I have stated, the blame lies with the process itself.

We must also look at the role of the FAI as, according to Bob Breen, the FAI licensing manager, "We have got situations where clubs have actually complied with the financial criteria and done the real difficult things and then they have failed to supply a document either in its original format or a document that hasn't been signed off which is a purely administrative thing and they are items that can be put right overnight." If this is the case, it seems that the FAI has brought yet another PR disaster down on itself and the eircom League, a situation seemingly avoided by a simple communication with the clubs to supply a few missing documents.

[pineapple stu]

I've looked through most of it, and "copy" is mentioned time and again. They rfer to official copies, but it's not hard to make a "minor mistake" as Breen on the Licencing committee called them.
Course it's a (relatively) minor mistake. We got done for one, so did Galway, so did Sligo. Clubs shouldn't be making them, though. They should be competent enough to read the rules and work out what's required. However, I do agree - and posted it earlier - that in light of the fact that so many of the clubs quite evidently came very very near getting the licence that a preliminary, and non-public, announcement should have been considered first. The outstanding items will take a week to clear at most, and then you can announce who's gotten a licence and who's being run badly. Now it's going to sound like another fudge when most of the league get their licences next week.

Someone posted earlier that the legal guy left it very late with his report...maybe it was intended to go to clubs first and that was the reason they didn't?

However, it shouldn't detract from the good that has already come out of licencing. Clubs are being forced to look at their finances and you would hope that the likes of the massive problems at Harps, Drogheda and Galway of recent years are going to become a thing of the past. Clubs have to produce accounts - never done before, I think? Clubs have to keep an eye on development and continuous improvement, all of which will force them, in the long run, to keep their houses much more in order than before. Which can only eb good for the league.

[monutdfc]

Just learned that the reason they did not pick up the 'phone and inform clubs of these minor mistakes is because it costs €500 to re-apply. 500 * 22 clubs = €11k = a nice hotel and business class return flight for a couple of blazers. We, the ordinary fans, are paying for this.

[tiktok]

Just learned that the reason they did not pick up the 'phone and inform clubs of these minor mistakes is because it costs €500 to re-apply. 500 * 22 clubs = €11k = a nice hotel and business class return flight for a couple of blazers. We, the ordinary fans, are paying for this.


AFAIK, the money will be refunded if the appeal is successful

[paudie]

AFAIK, the money will be refunded if the appeal is successful

As monutdfc said "€500 by 22 clubs = €11K = a nice hotel......"

only joking (hopefully)