Real's past

[anto eile]

I think Real will always struggle to lose the Government/Army team tag. It didn't help matters a few years ago when Real, over £100m in debt, sold their training complex to the Government who promptly leased it back to them on some ridiculously low rent.
it wiped £250million debt off in one go. real mierda "sold" their city centre training ground in exchange for land further from the centre, and the money they got wiped out their debts

[anto eile]

-There is no evidence of government interference in any other matter- other than forcing Barca (and Athletic) to change their name into spanish.

theres an irony in athletic bilbaos name. they use the english spelling deliberatley so as not to use the castilian spelling.yet they spell their city name in castilian (bilbao) as opposed to basque (bilbo).

also ironically seeing as we're on the subject of name changes,,the pressures of catalan nationalism has force espanyol to change their name from Real Club Deportivo Espan~ol de Barcelona to Reial Club Deportiu Espanyol. from castilian spelling to catalan. a big step when you are The royal spanish sports club

interstingly,atlético madrid were founded as the madrid sister club of athletic bilbao, hence the same red and white strip

[anto eile]

Does anyone know the political leanings of the second clubs in those cities (ie Atletico Madrid and Espanyol). I know there were rumours that the Frente Atletico were/are right wing, and the club may have had some involvement with the Air Force of Franco during the Civil War (when it was renamed Atletico Aviacion), but I was let to believe more recently that it draws its support from the South-West of the City, which is the poorer bit and many of its supporters are substantially Argentine (and other Latin American 2nd Generations) and are not pro-fascist. I think the last bit may well be true as I've spotted numerous Argentine flags at their matches, and when they played Valencia 18 months or so ago I noticed they cheered when Aimar was on the ball.

atlético madrid ultras are right wingers afaik, but could have another leftist ultra group like espanyol who have two ultra groups ,one is right wing- "brigada blanquiazul" and another is left wing and they dont get on. often spanish ultras are sub-segregated among their own fans. levante being another example

[anto eile]

The full name of the club is Real Club Deporitvo Espanyol- Royal Spanish Sporting Club literally.They did call themselves Español for a long time, but then changed it to Espanyol, the Catalan spelling of the word, in a token effort at reconciliation with Catalanists.

Reial club deportiu ;)



their president until a few years back was Jesus Gil, one of the most insane right wing politicians in spain- he was best buddys with Franco- who pardoned him and released him from jail after his holiday apartments collapsed and killed 50-something people (they'd been built without planning permission, or the use of an architect).
he opened the apartments before the cement had even dried!! whacko

[lopez]

Aye, I remember that incident, if you mean the one on the away trip to Prague (Viktoria Zizkov)...As it was when I occasionally used to sell the Chelsea Independent. We'd be moved on by the Police at KB's request, while obviously offensive racist material continued to be openly sold. That's the one and a very nasty and callious incident carried out by notorious right-winger with little interest in either Chelsea or football in general, Will Browning. Didn't know you were a Chelsea fan, Duncan.

Let's add the spread of Aids to the Francoists' list of crimes!Well that's a bit harsh on the old 'democrat' but I get your point.

theres an irony in athletic bilbaos name. they use the english spelling deliberatley so as not to use the castilian spelling.yet they spell their city name in castilian (bilbao) as opposed to basque (bilbo).I think Athletic keep that name not to p*ss off anyone but because that's their original name. 'Racing' of Santander and Ferrol, is not a Spanish word either and while the inhabitants of Ferrol don't exactly hold their most famous citizen - Fat Frank himself - in great esteem (while the local government wants the statue of him on a horse in the main square dumped in a museum - preferably in Madrid or Toledo - some locals celebrated the 25th anniversary of his death by decorating it with a grass mohecan and some psychadelic graffiti) you can't argue that Santander's not Castillian. BTW, the head of the RFEF - Angel Villar - is a former Bilbao player and got re-elected not just with the help 'Spanish' clubs. And what about Real Sociedad? Hardly in keeping with the views of many of its supporters. Or the equally Ikurrina decorated Osasuna, who after the civil war were far more in the fat one's best books than either of the Madrid teams - Navarra providing so much of his best troops, while Madrid were putting up the barricades and shouting 'No Pasaran' at every moment.

atlético madrid ultras are right wingers afaik, but could have another leftist ultra group like espanyol who have two ultra groups ,one is right wing- "brigada blanquiazul" and another is left wing and they dont get on. often spanish ultras are sub-segregated among their own fans. levante being another exampleSpanish gangs and penas are quite small and so are often from different politcal spectrums. While Real are admittedly low on groups from the left, other clubs within the Castille orbit have this diverse following, particularly the Andalucian clubs. Super Hincha, a Spanish magazine dedicated to the ultra scene is a good guide to the right and left of these groups. The letters page of one edition I picked up had one Racing Ferrol fan complaining that his club was not just full of 'Galician traitors' who liked dressing up a good old Spanish hero like Billy Idol, while he finished his rant with a good old 'Arriba Espana!.'

BTW, Real were founded by two Catalans.


he opened the apartments before the cement had even dried!! whackoHave you ever seen how quick cement and plaster sets in Spain? My guess was that he forgot to put in any in with the sand. :mad:

[Pat O' Banton]

I haven't actually been inside SB since a 0-3 thrashing by Leeds where Davros got ejected twice :rolleyes:


You can't just say this wwithout giving the masses more of an explaination!

[anto eile]

fair enough lopez, but i think the reason i have athletic bilbao as having an english name is casue i might have reas it smehwere years ago. not 100% sure so open to correction.
conor74 i dont know if youre joking, thouhg i believe JRR Tolkien picked the name bilbo as he got it form the basque for bilbao. i dont know how true it is, but read it a couple of times anyway.
real sociedad of san sebastian (not "donostia") is a very ironic name for a club associated with basque nationalism

[lopez]

real sociedad of san sebastian (not "donostia") is a very ironic name for a club associated with basque nationalismAbsolutely. San Sebastian is probably the most Basque of the three major cities although I remember reading in Paddy Woodworth's book that the city (along with Bilbao) has had a split council during the last 25 years on occasions and the PP vote is surprisingly high. The reason I heard - from a Malaga born resident of Barcelona and Espanyol fan at Euro 96 - behind the change of Espanyol was down to some 'interference' by the bank Caixa Catalunya which didn't go down well with him. Basque banks - which are common throughout Spain - are notoriously conservative and perhaps would not have pushed for such a similar change if indeed they were ever in a position. Equally, with the club having democratic elections, one of the issues - if popular - that a candidate could use to curry favour amongst the support would be a name change. The suggestion that the club is solely owned by an obstinate Francoist who's not willing to change the name, is of course inaccurate. Why not even having a dual name for the club is equally strange seeing that even mainstream Spanish media now refers to the club as 'Los Donostias'.

[Larry 'da' Wyse]

Great to read all this info about history of Spanish footie. Really enjoyed reading White Storm and Barca a few years ago. Speaking of books are there any publications available about Gento or Di Stefano?. I would recommend 'Puskas on Puskas' as a read - great stuff.

I'm suprised to see that some people seem to think Espanyol & PSG have a right wing reputation. Is there any evidence apart from isolated incidents or a few dodgy photos in the tabloids?
Real Madrid's rep is well documented but AFAIR didn't Barca pick up more trophies in the Franco era than Madrid? I get the impression that Madrid today have this notion of openness (to shed their historical image and also cash in on the increased profile) - a thing that Basque and other regional sides do not have.

Most clubs regardless of what country gain reputations and some maybe false - every club will have a few right-wing fans and it depends on what profile they can raise that will attest to the clubs reputation. St. Pauli in Ger and De Haag (Hol) do have a lot of problems I believe but by and large I reckon most clubs in Spain are generally oke. Then again the racist chanting and the laughable fines impossed recently may argue against the point.

[lopez]

Real Madrid's rep is well documented but AFAIR didn't Barca pick up more trophies in the Franco era than Madrid? I get the impression that Madrid today have this notion of openness (to shed their historical image and also cash in on the increased profile) - a thing that Basque and other regional sides do not have.
Real Madrid's openess stops at admitting that the club were founded by two Catalans. Athletic Bilbao apparently refuse to sign any non-Basques but if you look at their team list the notion of being 'Basque' is very liberal. Not only do they sign Basque players that consider themselves Spanish but that the area they take their players from not only extends into Navarra (demanded by ultra-nationalists as Basque but turned down the opportunity to join Euskadi in a referendum in 1982 and is as likely to be a part of it as Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan would be a part of Hugh Ross's independent Ulster) but now Logrono in the province of Rioja which opted out of Castilla-Leon in the break up of Castille in the early eighties but is culturally very much a part of it.
I do like Athletic. My favourite ground in Spain outside the Riazor. Fans are friendly - I sat near their ultras a couple of seasons ago with my kids in Depor colours and got no hassle from them - and they do like the Irish tricolour. The following day at the airport I got talking to two who were cleaners and one pointed out what he considered was the good thing about the 'Basque' only policy: no 'mulatos' or 'negros'. I pointed to the mixed-race Brazilian keeper a few years ago with the Basque name that they signed and it shut him up, but had his mate in stitches.


Most clubs regardless of what country gain reputations and some maybe false - every club will have a few right-wing fans and it depends on what profile they can raise that will attest to the clubs reputation. St. Pauli in Ger and De Haag (Hol) do have a lot of problems I believe but by and large I reckon most clubs in Spain are generally oke. Then again the racist chanting and the laughable fines impossed recently may argue against the point.Do you mean Hansa Rostock as a notorious German right-wing supported club? St Pauli fans are generally leftist.