European Championships - France 2016

[SwanVsDalton]

I don't really agree I'm afraid!

I like the photos. They look cool, and if Sammo was in the squad, they'd be even better. :)

But it's dangerous to normalise the idea that 8 of 23 players starting their careers in the domestic league is in any way good. It's awful. I think Iceland had 21 of their players start in the Icelandic league, for example. 8 of the 9 Albanian-born Albanians started at home.

I think a photo showing this off as great is the exact time to highlight how it's actually awful. While still appreciating the photos.

You're not wrong, Stu. I suppose I'm just coming at it from the view that it's almost always been awful. At least in the modern period. Has Iceland's league ever not produced it's own international footballers?

We have a relatively unique problem with our national league and player development, most countries will always fare better than us in comparison.

And it's an endemic, centuries old problem with no quick fix. It'd be nice if there was any kind of will to fix the problem from our esteemed football administrators, of course, but I guess that's why my dander isn't up all that much about this. I'm so beaten down by the FAI, that any visibility that isn't club administration or points deductions feels like good visibility...

[Stuttgart88]

I'm with the Swan. Of course the FAI can do so much better with the league but in my 40 years watching the ROI I think this is the best LOI representation. It sends a message that the LOI is a good stepping stone to bigger things. Roy Keane agrees :)

It's not fair to compare Ireland to big countries in terms of league representation. I'd also think that of the players in that photo, they may have emerged from the same era, but not necessarily at the same time and I think it took all but McClean (maybe Ward?) a few more years in England to make the cut. The point here is that a picture in time doesn't tell the story, it's got to be viewed over a cycle. It could be that the well is running dry again but I think Matt Doherty (Bohs) is very close to a call up and Alan Browne (Cork City) might be a year or two away. Then if Forrester (likely), Delaney (I'm thinking of the full back who joined Hull from Cork) and Towell can step up and maybe another of the current generation still at home like Horgan then that'll be another good cohort of LOI nurtured players. Hasn't McCarthy taken a few guys over to Ipswich?

And if the explanation for fewer LOI players making the cut is that the likes of Jack Byrne, Brady & Hendrick and players like Greg Cunningham - all home grown but bypassed the LOI - are taken up by good English clubs then I'm OK with that. I'd prefer if they could cut their teeth more at home but it'd be a big call to turn down Man City (Byrne, Cunningham) or Man United (Brady) in favour of a LOI club even if the LOI improves massively.

If nothing else it's a feelgood story and while Stu is right to cast some realism over it, my glass is more than half full on this one.

[pineapple stu]

Has Iceland's league ever not produced its own international footballers?
Don't know - but it certainly hasn't produced 21 finals squad players before.


We have a relatively unique problem with our national league and player development
What's unique about us? The FAI?

We can enjoy this Euros as the last for a while if we just accept the poor performance of the league. There's never been fewer Irish players in the Premiership than now. Ex-LoI players make up a sizeable chunk of that for the first time ever - that's how it's supposed to be. But the English top flight teams arhave so much more choice now than to pick up a few Irish players. If we want good players, we have to develop them ourselves.

Instead, the FAI tell Limerick they can't host a big fundraising friendly against Barcelona, and then make up reasons why. Cos that'll help Limerick raise funds to improve their club structure and hopefully produce future internationals.

[pineapple stu]

It's not fair to compare Ireland to big countries in terms of league representation.
What big countries am I comparing to? Iceland? Albania? Slovakia? Croatia? Wales?


And if the explanation for fewer LOI players making the cut is that the likes of Jack Byrne, Brady & Hendrick and players like Greg Cunningham - all home grown but bypassed the LOI - are taken up by good English clubs then I'm OK with that.
But there's currently fewer of those players in the Premiership than ever before. That's not good.

[Stuttgart88]

But how many Iceland, Albania and Slovakia players are in the Premiership (or elite leagues)? Some, but not many I'd guess. The key for me is producing a good international team.

Croatia is an extraordinary story, a breeding ground of athletic, technical and clever players, though I'm surprised Corluka is still there. Wales is virtually a full part of the English professional pyramid so not as comparable. Football is a huge sport in these countries - and don't start by responding "rugby is bigger in Wales" - outside certain pockets football is every bit as pervasive.

I'm not defending the FAI but the fact that 8 LOI players are in a European Finals squad isn't a stick to beat them with, even if you're right to rub some of the gloss off it.

[pineapple stu]

Football is a huge sport in this country too. Let's not dismiss that just because the GAA is here.

The countries you mention typically have 7/8 players in the "top" leagues - Serie A, Ligue 1, the Bundesliga, La Liga and the Premiership. But it's hard to judge other countries because they have players various other European leagues - so Slovakia have two players in the Russian league (with Dynamo and Lokomotiv Moscow - with Ireland, it's Premiership or nothing of course). Is that better or worse than James McClean at West Brom or Aiden McGeady at Sheffield Wednesday? Hard to tell, but recent European campaigns haven't shown the lower Premiership teams in a great light.

I think if we accept that 8 LoI players in a squad is great, then we've a small mindset and can settle back into a generation of being fourth seeds.

[Stuttgart88]

I think the GAA thing is important. Iceland's success - as far as I am aware - is to a large part attributable to publicly funded high quality facilities all around the country, every town and village. I don't see that happening in Ireland and the GAA is part of that. If we had no GAA my guess is that we'd have a far better chance of sustaining professional football.

You've made your point, I've made mine. They're not even contradictory. I'm not accepting anything and I don't have a small mindset.

[pineapple stu]

I don't think the GAA thing is as important as we like to think. It's not ideal (from a football point of view - hurling's a great game of course), but other countries our size have similar competition. Professional ice-hockey leagues, professional basketball leagues, huge interest in skiing and Olympic handball.

It's too easy to blame the GAA.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

We can't even keep our own villages, towns, cities and rural environs tidy but we can clean up foreign cities. :rolleyes:

The self-awareness among the self-professed "best fans" in the world (who can't even sing the words of their own anthem mind) continues to be taken to new levels.

http://www.the42.ie/irish-fan-cleans-up-bordeaux-euro-2016-2-2829516-Jun2016/

Got to get those Facebook likes and retweets!

[Stuttgart88]

I find the whole thing a bit too self-congratulatory alright.

[DannyInvincible]

We can't even keep our own villages, towns, cities and rural environs tidy but we can clean up foreign cities. :rolleyes:

The self-awareness among the self-professed "best fans" in the world (who can't even sing the words of their own anthem mind) continues to be taken to new levels.

http://www.the42.ie/irish-fan-cleans-up-bordeaux-euro-2016-2-2829516-Jun2016/

Got to get those Facebook likes and retweets!

Yeah, we should be rioting or throwing coins at Syrian refugees or something.

[DannyInvincible]

I find the whole thing a bit too self-congratulatory alright.

Nobody would hear about it if the Irish media weren't all over it. Balls.ie have been churning out little else. But even if there is an element of self-congratulation, I'd rather hear about Irish fans fixing a tyre or cleaning up the mess of bags, cans and bottles they'd left on the street than hear that we were doing damage or causing harm to people. The fans are representing the country abroad and I'm sure the locals are appreciative.

[pineapple stu]

It's just clickbait. Nice to hear, but wouldn't read too deeply into it.

[tetsujin1979]

Not sure what's worse, the sites churning this stuff out, or the fans recording every minute of the trip in case something gas happens

[pineapple stu]

Both just modern life unfortunately.

[shakermaker1982]

If it makes you feel any better my brother was the guy who got 'knocked out' live on RTE the other night. Something different to all this Mother Teresa stuff :)

[NeverFeltBetter]

What was that Apres Match skit with Roy Keane? "What are they doin, dancing in the streets!? Streets are for cars!"

[pineapple stu]

Irish Fans Rescue Kidnapped Schoolgirls From Boko Haram (http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/06/17/irish-fans-rescue-kidnapped-schoolgirls-from-boko-haram/)

Superb satire.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I never bet against Italy. They turn up in their mid 30's, playing in the MLS, out of shape, out of form, racked with internal dissention and a bumbling buffoon for a manager and next thing you know they've just knocked Germany out on penalties in the semi and are shrugging at each other like it's no big deal and stating they'll be back on sunday to collect their trophy and when told they've France or Spain to see off first they make a note to purchase them a packet of hankies. ahem...

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/46457263.jpg

[BonnieShels]

We can't even keep our own villages, towns, cities and rural environs tidy but we can clean up foreign cities. :rolleyes:

The self-awareness among the self-professed "best fans" in the world (who can't even sing the words of their own anthem mind) continues to be taken to new levels.

http://www.the42.ie/irish-fan-cleans-up-bordeaux-euro-2016-2-2829516-Jun2016/

Got to get those Facebook likes and retweets!

Did they not let you clean up with them or something?

I'm quare tired of people having a go at us having fun. Let them. Why are we so bloody miserable?

[Fixer82]

Lighten up lads. Just be glad we're not causing trouble and enjoying ourselves. If the fact that lads are cleaning up and videoing it is your biggest complaint then we're doing ok.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Croatia win would be good for us surely?

[Real ale Madrid]

Czech Republic motoring now thanks to a strike from Skoda

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Goes to show how much Modric controls the game. Had Rosicky in his pocket.

[SwanVsDalton]

Turkey getting Gdansk'ed here. Let's hear if their fans can do a decent Turkish version of Fields of Athenry. And if Hakan Suker will be completely raging about it.

[pineapple stu]

Give 'em credit - Turks making all the noise the last few minutes anyway

[tetsujin1979]

The42 on the recent backlash against the videos and photos going viral from the euros: http://www.the42.ie/ireland-fans-euro-2016-2829680-Jun2016/
Just a question nobody asked yet - what was it that pushed people over the edge here? There's numerous examples of the same kind of behaviour at recent McGregor fights, at last year's rugby world cup, etc, so was there anything specific to this tournament that created the backlash?

[SkStu]

I have no problem with whats going on at all. PStu summed it up very succinctly - its the world we live in now. For a lot of fans this is a holiday as well as a chance to take your nation playing in one of the great sporting tournaments. If people want to have a few drinks, sing a few songs and have a good laugh on the streets of these cities then we should have no problem with this. As long as they are not fighting, inciting locals or others into violence or being too much of a social disturbance then this behavior and capturing it on camera is no problem. Theyre just having a laugh.

I think perhaps where this stems from could be the annoyance carried over from Polkraine in 2012. A lot of folks, myself included, took issue with the singing of the Fields of Athenry and generally celebratory behavior from the fans in the stadiums while we were enduring the worst tournament of our history with some of the most abject and boring performances accompanying it. People saw it as being accepting or forgiving of 2nd rate performance. A lot of folks were disillusioned with Trappatoni at that stage and the squad/team selection and thought that fans who are spending their hard earned should make their dissatisfaction known instead of singing songs. I felt that way. In retrospect, it was a little bit harsh and uppity although I would still cringe (and vomit) if it happened tomorrow while Belgium were beating us 4-0.

That said, if people are drawing parallels with what happens on the streets of Bordeaux or Paris in 2016 with singing songs and party mode in the stadiums of Poland 4 years ago while getting tanked, that's extremely unfair and not at all similar for the reasons outlined in the couple of paragraphs above.

[bennocelt]

The42 on the recent backlash against the videos and photos going viral from the euros: http://www.the42.ie/ireland-fans-euro-2016-2829680-Jun2016/
Just a question nobody asked yet - what was it that pushed people over the edge here? There's numerous examples of the same kind of behaviour at recent McGregor fights, at last year's rugby world cup, etc, so was there anything specific to this tournament that created the backlash?


Funny. Had something similar in Basel when Everton were in town (playing in Bern i think) where me and another Irish guy bumped into a skin head, or rather he bumped into us, he was mad to fight with some english supporters, but he relaxed once he heard we were Irish! Ha. I am sure this happens a lot really........
By the way we did end up drinking with him in the end as well, lol, even if he was a complete nutter!

[geysir]

I saw some ('aren't we great') video posted up the Indo where irish fans helped some inebriated elder guy up to his feet after knocking him to the ground. What was the alternative , kick him to bits then rob him?
Okay, some idiots though this was a fun video, that's the world we live in but does the national 'effin newspaper have to run with this drivel?

It's the emergence of popular fascism all around Europe is the issue for football and whose thugs who have embedded themselves into the regular support, the worst being Croatia, Russia and Hungary (black shirts). A tad more disturbing than the harmless antics of inebriated tourists,

[tetsujin1979]

The independent doesn't know which side of the fence it's standing on, Ger Keville published this before the tournament: http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2016/comment-do-ireland-fans-really-want-to-be-known-as-the-gob****es-making-a-mockery-of-their-national-flag-34784043.html

[DeLorean]

Only Christie and Meyler haven't yet seen game time out of our outfield players.

[tetsujin1979]

Travel Sickness, or when everything that can go wrong on a connecting flight does go wrong, Part One: http://tetsujin1979.blogspot.ie/2016/06/euro-2016-travel-sickness-part-one.html

[BonnieShels]

Travel Sickness, or when everything that can go wrong on a connecting flight does go wrong, Part One: http://tetsujin1979.blogspot.ie/2016/06/euro-2016-travel-sickness-part-one.html

My flights were delayed at both ends. However, nothing comes close to that.

[tetsujin1979]

Travel Sickness Part Two, or "when one train vanishes, another one turns into a bus": http://tetsujin1979.blogspot.ie/2016/06/euro-2016-travel-sickness-part-two.html

[tetsujin1979]

Euro 2016 Blog Part 3 - Bordeauxing On The Ridiculous, or The Dark Nightbus Of The Soul: http://tetsujin1979.blogspot.ie/2016/06/euro-2016-bordeuxing-on-ridiculous-or.html

[paul_oshea]

Tets i cant view that at work any chance you can paste them here?

[BonnieShels]

Euro 2016 Blog Part 3 - Bordeuxing On The Ridiculous, or The Dark Nightbus Of The Soul: http://tetsujin1979.blogspot.ie/2016/06/euro-2016-bordeuxing-on-ridiculous-or.html

Bordeauxing? That hurts me. Or is it a tribute to Tricky?

[tetsujin1979]

Tets i cant view that at work any chance you can paste them here?
can't, too long for a post. read it when you get home or use your phone


Bordeauxing? That hurts me. Or is it a tribute to Tricky?
not that I'm aware of, did he use that term over the tournament?

[BonnieShels]

can't, too long for a post. read it when you get home or use your phone


not that I'm aware of, did he use that term over the tournament?

I'm talking about your misspelling of Bordeaux as Bordeux in its title.

[tetsujin1979]

I'm talking about your misspelling of Bordeaux as Bordeux in its title.

ah, that was an honest mistake on my part. corrected

[DeLorean]

I was feeling sorry for you up until you went all weird about your flag. :)

My (brand new but thankfully insured) phone was pick pocketed the Friday night in Bordeaux actually. I got a bit of a slap on confrontation too. I think you need to embrace some of the challenges these trips throw up, although travel problems can be soul destroying to be fair. My friend lost his phone and wallet on day three of eight. I must admit his laid back attitude towards the setback was inspiring!

I have to say my experience in Bordeaux was great overall, we were mainly based by the strip alongside the river. Mainly English bars I think alongside each other, Dog & Duck, etc. They definitely embraced the tournament, beer flowing inside and outside the pubs, big screens with commentary, etc. €5 per pint and the Belgians were brilliant fun. My overriding memory of Poland was that it was a nightmare to get a drink within a half hour time frame!

On my Vodafone plan I was entitled to 200MB of daily roaming data to use the internet too which was great, up until the mugging obviously. :D

[tetsujin1979]

I was feeling sorry for you up until you went all weird about your flag. :)

My (brand new but thankfully insured) phone was pick pocketed the Friday night in Bordeaux actually. I got a bit of a slap on confrontation too. I think you need to embrace some of the challenges these trips throw up, although travel problems can be soul destroying to be fair. My friend lost his phone and wallet on day three of eight. I must admit his laid back attitude towards the setback was inspiring!

I have to say my experience in Bordeaux was great overall, we were mainly based by the strip alongside the river. Mainly English bars I think alongside each other, Dog & Duck, etc. They definitely embraced the tournament, beer flowing inside and outside the pubs, big screens with commentary, etc. €5 per pint and the Belgians were brilliant fun. My overriding memory of Poland was that it was a nightmare to get a drink within a half hour time frame!

On my Vodafone plan I was entitled to 200MB of daily roaming data to use the internet too which was great, up until the mugging obviously. :D
It was just one more thing had gone against me at that stage, I was already pretty beaten by three days of travelling, not a lot of sleep, and the sheer apathy towards the tournament by the French I had met up until that point.
Straw that broke the camel's back, basically.

[DeLorean]

I wasn't really serious. I've had some horror shows in airports, etc. myself over the years, although always on the way back (thankfully, I think!).

[CraftyToePoke]

It was just one more thing had gone against me at that stage

You were a man clinging to the frayed ends of his sanity when I came across you anyway Tets :) fair play, and a nice read too, thanks for putting it up.

[paul_oshea]

I was feeling sorry for you up until you went all weird about your flag. :)

My (brand new but thankfully insured) phone was pick pocketed the Friday night in Bordeaux actually. I got a bit of a slap on confrontation too. I think you need to embrace some of the challenges these trips throw up, although travel problems can be soul destroying to be fair. My friend lost his phone and wallet on day three of eight. I must admit his laid back attitude towards the setback was inspiring!

I have to say my experience in Bordeaux was great overall, we were mainly based by the strip alongside the river. Mainly English bars I think alongside each other, Dog & Duck, etc. They definitely embraced the tournament, beer flowing inside and outside the pubs, big screens with commentary, etc. €5 per pint and the Belgians were brilliant fun. My overriding memory of Poland was that it was a nightmare to get a drink within a half hour time frame!

On my Vodafone plan I was entitled to 200MB of daily roaming data to use the internet too which was great, up until the mugging obviously. :D

I spent the first night in the police station in Paris. I couldn't believe how good they were except not letting me go to sleep anywhere even though I told them id been up for more than 36 houts by this stage...My friend also got mugged and caards stolen the first night. Very laid back too but he was more out of his box once we left Paris. Sure why wouldn't lads be relaxed when their mates are there to sub them out.

Sorry to hear you got a slap. Paris is a dump I think its the 8th time I've been to Paris and each time im less and less inclined to go back. I saw a couple of black eyes actually around the place, I imagine something similar had happened other lads. Bordeaux was the best one for me i think. Although the fete de la musique in Lille was good, otherwise it would have been boring enough there I imagine.

Ya in Poland it had that whole commie feel, working harder isn't worth my while.

And about the transport, it was a joke. They were like telling me planes/trains cancelled in french and saying its my problem not theirs. Whens the next one then? Shrug shoulders eh em ammm etc. They were very happy to have us, especially in the bigger cities. But outside connector points they were so apathetic it was laughable. Thank God for Uber. I spent a fortune on, lads seem to forget those kinda things unless you are paying upfront, but without it would have been rightly screwed. I got slightly done coming back yesterday morning as well by the taxi driver but i was too tired to do anything about it.

[DeLorean]

Sorry to hear you got a slap.

It was nothing really, more a gentle reminder that it wasn't a good idea to chase a scumbag up the street at 2am, it all happened fairly fast. Not sure what I was planning, I think I was gonna offer money for my phone back or something ha! ;)

[paul_oshea]

Bah Humbug tets, youre turning into a grumpy old man. Lots of what you mentioned happened us actually bar the heathrow cancellation.

Also you know each stadium had a storage point with tickets? I even left a bottle of water in there, which I didnt return for but my mate had a fine flag as well and they wouldn't let him bring it in so he left it stored, same as in stade de france. Only got to put it up in Lille and Lyon.

One thing I did say to myself after this though is, I am not being sound arranging to meet people with tickets, as it was chaos for many different reasons mainly transport but from now on if someone wants a ticket they come to you(me) wherever you find yourself at a given time.

[tetsujin1979]

Ireland fans to be given the medal of Paris: http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Euro-la-medaille-de-paris-aux-supporters-irlandais-pour-leur-esprit-sportif/700596

(via google translate)


Medal Paris to Irish fans for their sportsmanship
Irish fans will be rewarded with the medal of Paris for their state of mind.
The Socialist Mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, said Tuesday it awarded the Medal of the City of Paris for Irish football fans for their sportsmanship. These supporters have been "exemplary in their sportsmanship," as they are distinguished by the "atmosphere" they create from the beginning of the euro, said the mayor, who met Monday evening the press on the fan zone located in the Champ de Mars in Paris.

The ruling stated that it had written to the President of the Republic of Ireland, Michael D. Higgins, to inform him of the news. The ceremony of the medal will take place at an unspecified date. The Irish team was beaten 2-1 by France in Sunday knockout.

[Junior]

One thing I did say to myself after this though is, I am not being sound arranging to meet people with tickets, as it was chaos for many different reasons mainly transport but from now on if someone wants a ticket they come to you(me) wherever you find yourself at a given time.

Hahaha, yer one cheeky fecker. I hope the irony of that sentence is not lost on you ;):D