View Full Version : Airtricity League report
outspoken
02/10/2015, 1:37 AM
Regarding league structure, my greatest annoyance of the entire report is that there was no recommendation to genuinely attempt to put a pyramid structure of sorts into place. I had really hoped Conroy would suggest the the FAI take football in this country by the balls and put shape on it from top to bottom.
We'd not be having the discussion of 'not enough teams' again, and there'd be a constant supply of teams going through promotion and relegation right throughout the country.
We'd easily be able to transfer to a 16 team Premier and 10 team First Division North/South in the next ten years if the right structures were put in place from top to bottom.
Agree 100%, for a small country there's an awful lot of teams and Leagues out there, with the proper pyramid structure we could give any of the home nations leagues (bar the big leagues in England of course) a run for their money and more, as well as the smaller European leagues. It will never happen though.
bennocelt
02/10/2015, 11:26 AM
Regarding league structure, my greatest annoyance of the entire report is that there was no recommendation to genuinely attempt to put a pyramid structure of sorts into place. I had really hoped Conroy would suggest the the FAI take football in this country by the balls and put shape on it from top to bottom.
We'd not be having the discussion of 'not enough teams' again, and there'd be a constant supply of teams going through promotion and relegation right throughout the country.
We'd easily be able to transfer to a 16 team Premier and 10 team First Division North/South in the next ten years if the right structures were put in place from top to bottom.
Exactly, because we all know that one or two clubs going to the wall will put the idea of a ten team league immediately into touch, or at least make it look foolish.
As for the league split, jesus no, not this again!!!:(
disgruntled
05/10/2015, 10:40 AM
http://www.the42.ie/league-of-ireland-conroy-report-2359945-Sep2015/
John O'Sullivans response to the Conroy Report and what he'd change in the league.
I would like to explore his no6 point in more detail but fully agree with everything else he had to say.
disgruntled
05/10/2015, 10:44 AM
Regarding league structure, my greatest annoyance of the entire report is that there was no recommendation to genuinely attempt to put a pyramid structure of sorts into place. I had really hoped Conroy would suggest the the FAI take football in this country by the balls and put shape on it from top to bottom.
We'd not be having the discussion of 'not enough teams' again, and there'd be a constant supply of teams going through promotion and relegation right throughout the country.
We'd easily be able to transfer to a 16 team Premier and 10 team First Division North/South in the next ten years if the right structures were put in place from top to bottom.
Fully agree with this but you & I know it will never happen because the 92 leagues affiliated to the FAI won't let it happen.
Straightstory
08/10/2015, 9:53 AM
Good piece by Ireland's best football journalist. (Though I don't share his tolerance for barstoolers). http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/liam-mackey/liam-mackey-in-a-league-of-its-own-357321.html
Pretty depressing piece. I would be inclined to think the battle against (or rather for survival alongside) the premiership isn't such a lost cause. At work I am surrounded with premiership fans, but several have been feeling more and more distant from it increasingly becomes all about the money. It was always about the money of course, and the LOI is too, but things like the managerial merry go round (Rodgers was the 2nd longest serving manager in the premiership when sacked), crass behaviour from managers and players and the lack of atmosphere at games has seen them start to lose interest. Even if they don't go, they can see fans mean little to clubs. Our league does have its own selling points- most of all that being involved with an LOI club can be great fun and very rewarding.
Suggesting school visits is one thing, getting past GAA bias Principles/ Boards of Management is quite another (which iirc is something we've had trouble with when we've tried initiatives with schools).
Pretty depressing piece. I would be inclined to think the battle against (or rather for survival alongside) the premiership isn't such a lost cause. At work I am surrounded with premiership fans, but several have been feeling more and more distant from it increasingly becomes all about the money. It was always about the money of course, and the LOI is too, but things like the managerial merry go round (Rodgers was the 2nd longest serving manager in the premiership when sacked), crass behaviour from managers and players and the lack of atmosphere at games has seen them start to lose interest. Even if they don't go, they can see fans mean little to clubs. Our league does have its own selling points- most of all that being involved with an LOI club can be great fun and very rewarding.
I would agree that there's some kind of shift happening, although whether that's just an age thing is a different matter. We'll probably end up with more following lower leagues/ non league UK football though as they're "real" fans, and still writing off our league, unfortunately.
The Harps schools programme has no issues with access. If anything they have more schools wanting to be part of it than they can get to.
legendz
01/11/2015, 9:05 PM
What I was looking for in the Report was a blueprint for the implementation of an intermediary league with reserve teams (without any obligation on LoI clubs to do so) and new clubs as was the case in the A Championship being invited to join with the ambition of possibly make the step up to LoI level.
While a 33 week season might not be ideal, it remains the best fit evidenced by a return to that format.
Coming from outside the LoI community as I would see it, the league seems to have reached a stable enough position. It's down to clubs really to get their own houses in order. The lack of prize money is still a concern.
I can still only harp on that the league does lack a national vibrancy. If you live in provincial towns like Tullamore, Castlebar, Tralee, Ennis, Portlaoise and Kilkenny to name a few, you should be able to watch a game in your area where the local team is involved in the LoI even if it's only at an intermediary level. While it might be a long way off, I would like the FAI to have the ambition, blueprint and drive to make it possible.
It's easy to say clubs need to sort themselves out, but there are clubs in the league that are reasonably well run and they're holding on by their fingernails. We have a good board and volunteers and sponsors at FHFC but it's a constant struggle even in a good year. The number of league clubs has reduced in size by 13.6% (22 to 19 clubs albeit Rovers fielded a reserve team to keep 20 teams) and recovered to a 9% reduction- bugger that for stability!
Anyhow.. once the season is over will address this in more detail in a blog. Haven't found time to put it all together yet.
legendz
07/11/2015, 8:26 AM
When I say clubs need to get their own houses in order, I don't doubt that it's challenging.
If a Harps supporter will excuse me for harping on, it is a shame that an intermediary league cannot be put in place. It was harsh on the likes of Tralee Dynamos and FC Carlow that the plug was pulled on the A Championship.
White Horse
07/11/2015, 11:30 AM
I wonder how many Harps fans support the idea of one division this morning?
nigel-harps1954
07/11/2015, 12:39 PM
I wonder how many Harps fans support the idea of one division this morning?
Still fully support it. The First Division is a balls and needs to be done away with.
SeanDMRooney
07/11/2015, 2:48 PM
I wonder how many Harps fans support the idea of one division this morning?
Promotion wont diminish my support for 1 division, only 4 new teams in the first division would
LK37oldskool
07/11/2015, 4:56 PM
I think the first division is required by ufea for our league to get euro places?
Jofspring
07/11/2015, 5:01 PM
I think the first division is required by ufea for our league to get euro places?
Must look into it but according to a lad who would know about these things it's not actually true that you need a second division.
nigel-harps1954
07/11/2015, 6:21 PM
FAI get a heap of money for having two divisions.
Ezeikial
07/11/2015, 8:14 PM
FAI get a heap of money for having two divisions.
I love this! I'm gonna forward it to Jim Corr who needs some new material.
nigel-harps1954
07/11/2015, 11:05 PM
I love this! I'm gonna forward it to Jim Corr who needs some new material.
How much do you want to bet that I'm wrong?
gufcfan
08/11/2015, 3:09 AM
Promotion wont diminish my support for 1 division, only 4 new teams in the first division would
Sorry lad, but I think this is probably the worst LOI related idea that any significant amount of people have voiced support for. You think clubs were dropping like flies a few years ago? Implement a single tier LOI and all hell will break loose.
How much do you want to bet that I'm wrong?
I would bet you all I have that the FAI doesn't earn 'a heap of money' from the LOI
Ezeikial
08/11/2015, 8:23 AM
How much do you want to bet that I'm wrong?
A trip on an alien spaceship
legendz
09/11/2015, 5:49 PM
Limerick's relegation to the second tier won't dissuade me from going to their games next season.
Personally I had more respect for the First Division when there was a league below it for a few seasons.
I know I'm harping on but it is a disgrace that more provincial towns haven't teams in a league at a regional level linked to the LoI. While it's not something that would happen overnight, there should be an aspiration for making it possible.
nigel-harps1954
09/11/2015, 6:18 PM
I would bet you all I have that the FAI doesn't earn 'a heap of money' from the LOI
They certainly do get a heap of money in terms of costs involved in running the LOI.
In international football terms, it's not much, but in terms of LOI costs, it's a good lump of money that they'd otherwise lose out on by having only one division.
There's UEFA grants for each division an association has.
legendz
10/11/2015, 9:19 PM
There's UEFA grants for each division an association has.
Wow, you'd think they'd install the regionalised third tier I'm harping on about for more grants!
nigel-harps1954
20/11/2015, 11:00 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/premier-division-clubs-recruit-barrister-to-represent-them-in-talks-with-the-fai-1.2438701#.Vk-xXk9KQ_E.twitter
Interesting progress on this.
Longfordian
21/11/2015, 8:52 AM
They're certainly better off going against the FAI collectively if they feel things need to change. Delaney has been known to punish those who oppose him publicly in the past so clubs would have been reluctant to go out on a limb.
gufcfan
21/11/2015, 10:57 AM
Delaney has been known to punish those who oppose him publicly in the past so clubs would have been reluctant to go out on a limb.
Yeah, anyone be it LOI or local level that makes a nuisance of themselves are just marking themselves and their clubs out for "special" treatment.
I remain profoundly uncomfortable with 12 of the league clubs acting without the other 8. It's a totally artificial and arbitrary decision to have a body for only the premier clubs. It's great to see the clubs moving towards a bit more dialogue and cooperation but excluding good clubs from it is flat out wrong.
gufcfan
21/11/2015, 2:09 PM
I remain profoundly uncomfortable with 12 of the league clubs acting without the other 8. It's a totally artificial and arbitrary decision to have a body for only the premier clubs. It's great to see the clubs moving towards a bit more dialogue and cooperation but excluding good clubs from it is flat out wrong.
The First Division clubs are in a different situation. I'm all for everyone being represented, but one step at a time. They've managed to get the PD clubs to come together to take on Naughton. That in itself is a big thing.
I'd love to see them get a majority to agree on a good candidate who has the interest of the league at heart, to remove Naughton.
That would be huge step in the right direction for the league.
He's up for "election" again in 11 or 12 months.
pineapple stu
21/11/2015, 2:55 PM
I remain profoundly uncomfortable with 12 of the league clubs acting without the other 8. It's a totally artificial and arbitrary decision to have a body for only the premier clubs. It's great to see the clubs moving towards a bit more dialogue and cooperation but excluding good clubs from it is flat out wrong.
I think either a separate organisation for the First Division clubs or an expansion to include them is being considered and will probably happen.
I think either a separate organisation for the First Division clubs or an expansion to include them is being considered and will probably happen.
Yeah that would be good. Even a seperate group for first division clubs initially would be great. Both groups would need to talk to each other though!
Who set the group up? Who's chairperson etc? It really is a good idea and long overdue!
gufcfan
21/11/2015, 5:40 PM
Who set the group up? Who's chairperson etc? It really is a good idea and long overdue!
I'm guessing that among the reasons for the group speaking through a barrister is so that the FAI can't just single out the ringleader and make it go away.
I'm guessing that among the reasons for the group speaking through a barrister is so that the FAI can't just single out the ringleader and make it go away.
Haha yeah you're probably right! Jaysus it's worse than Soviet Russia!
NeverFeltBetter
21/11/2015, 7:01 PM
Was the group set up with a Limerick a part of it, and are they anymore?
pineapple stu
21/11/2015, 7:43 PM
Yes and, presumably, no.
Pending getting the first division clubs involved I presume
SeanDMRooney
21/11/2015, 11:47 PM
And by extension does that mean Harps and Wexford are involved in the PCA now
Longfordian
21/11/2015, 11:56 PM
The Irish Times article nigel linked above says they were both consulted so presumably they are.
Kingswood Rover
22/11/2015, 8:36 PM
This is a sensible move by the top flight clubs, could it be the start of a process that sees the clubs breakaway from the FAI and set up there own league, you never know these things tend to gather momentum especially if the FAI stonewall them.
Nesta99
22/11/2015, 9:21 PM
This is a sensible move by the top flight clubs, could it be the start of a process that sees the clubs breakaway from the FAI and set up there own league, you never know these things tend to gather momentum especially if the FAI stonewall them.
Be careful what you wish for! The FAI have hardly covered themselves in glory with LoI. But it was no fun either when the league wasnt run by the FAI. Maybe clubs are better organised now than before, but petty rivalries and a slapdash attitude at administrative levels are not assured not to rear their heads again! Work within a framework with the FAI where clubs have not fallen at the feet of Delaney as some saviour this time. It is a good start not leaving clubs open to retribution for asking basic questions.
disgruntled
23/11/2015, 10:45 AM
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/premier-division-clubs-recruit-barrister-to-represent-them-in-talks-with-the-fai-1.2438701#.Vk-xXk9KQ_E.twitter
Interesting progress on this.
About time.
I was wondering how far the clubs would be pushed before they woke up.
Speaking with one voice is the only way for any kind of progress to be made.
Being honest I thought I would never see the day.
I think either a separate organisation for the First Division clubs or an expansion to include them is being considered and will probably happen.
An expansion would be the way to go.
All League clubs should be represented by one organisation.
Exactly. Leave it as premier only and you're open to the divide and conquer tactic right from the start. Any club that can survive in senior football deserves respect and a voice in these situations.
disgruntled
23/11/2015, 1:32 PM
Be careful what you wish for! The FAI have hardly covered themselves in glory with LoI. But it was no fun either when the league wasnt run by the FAI. Maybe clubs are better organised now than before, but petty rivalries and a slapdash attitude at administrative levels are not assured not to rear their heads again! Work within a framework with the FAI where clubs have not fallen at the feet of Delaney as some saviour this time. It is a good start not leaving clubs open to retribution for asking basic questions.
The thing is no matter how clubs are represented they will still need to apply for the annual licence so they can't go back to their old ways.
Not that the licencing has stopped clubs getting into trouble.
gufcfan
23/11/2015, 2:04 PM
The thing is no matter how clubs are represented they will still need to apply for the annual licence so they can't go back to their old ways.
Not that the licencing has stopped clubs getting into trouble.
The thing with the licences is that under the current regime is that they ignore important parts of it when it suits them.
outspoken
23/11/2015, 4:44 PM
I'd imagine the reason the FD clubs aren't included is becuase they would push for an extend/one division whereas most PD clubs will fight the recommendation to relegate up to 4 teams next season so by keeping the FD clubs out there's no divide within the group
gufcfan
23/11/2015, 7:08 PM
I'd imagine the reason the FD clubs aren't included is becuase they would push for an extend/one division
Clubs with that ambition might as well save themselves a lot of misery and shut up shop now.
outspoken
23/11/2015, 8:37 PM
Clubs with that ambition might as well save themselves a lot of misery and shut up shop now.
You see my point though
gufcfan
24/11/2015, 12:38 AM
You see my point though
It's great that the PCA has been revived. Going on what happened with it before and what Eamonn Naughton has proven to be capable of, every club you invite adds to the danger that the last collapse of the PCA could come with it.
It's certainly not ideal that FD clubs are not involved at the moment, it's not like it's a huge league pyramid.
I don't think it will be long before everyone is included. Hopefully some positive change can come about because of it.
They might end up frustrating the barrister into moving on... but hopefully not.
nigel-harps1954
24/11/2015, 7:41 AM
Clubs with that ambition might as well save themselves a lot of misery and shut up shop now.
"I don't agree with your view so you can go to hell". Isn't that the sort of thinking that the clubs are attempting to avoid currently?
Whether or not a club wants an expanded Premier, less teams, more teams, one division, two divisions or any other idea is irrelevant. All the clubs should be pulling together and having their voices heard, irrespective of their views for the league structure.
Absolutely agree that First Division teams should be involved as much as Cork City, Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers or any other teams.
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