GAA to open Croker [Archive]

GalwayFrancis

20/11/2004, 5:44 PM

Didnt know wether to post this here or general football:
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:ball: GAA wants €50m to open Croker :ball:

20/11/2004 - 17:32:12

The GAA will seek a grant of €50m from the Government if Rule 42, governing the opening up of Croke Park, is overturned at Congress next April.

GAA President Sean Kelly confirmed that his Association would seek the bursary from the Government to solve the stadium crisis that exists for rugby and soccer.

Kelly has also warned that the FAI and the IRFU would face hefty rental charges for the use of the stadium.

"There is no reason why we shouldn’t make a request for a further grant to help us clear off the debt on Croke Park," he said.

"We would be in a strong position to do so because if we offer to open up Croke Park, subject to certain conditions, the decision as to whether Irish rugby and soccer teams play overseas will then be up to others.

"Nobody can accuse us of not being good neighbours which will most certainly happen if our international teams end up playing in Britain while Croke Park remains closed."

Several counties look set to propose the removal of Rule 42 at Congress in April.

Slash/ED

20/11/2004, 6:01 PM

In fairness, that doesn't mean they will open it, but it does make it seem all the more likely.

skbio_toronto

20/11/2004, 6:26 PM

I've been impressed with this outspoken Kerryman since he took office. Not afraid to address the Rule 42 issue unlike his predocessor Sean 'head stuck in the sand' McCague.

Too right he should demand hefty rental charges for the use of Croke Park for the 3-4 period that Lansdowne would be closed. The GAA went ahead and built a modern stadium, while the IRFU / FAI plodded along with a long since outdated shell of a ground.

That Congress meeting in April is D-Day as far as I'm concerned. The prospect of our national team playing in Glasgow, Manchester or Liverpool is just to painful to bear.

Not a hint of xenophobia, I promise!!

SKBIO-TOR

onceahoop

21/11/2004, 1:08 AM

Consider this. The FAI are told that all funding will be witheld until they get their house in order. We're all agreed on that.

The Dublin County Board hit two clubs with hefty fines for what appears to be xtreme violence at a county championship game. Some of the penalties are appealed and duly overturned because some obscure rule about notifying the Leinster Council of the decision hasn't been adhered to. THE FACT THAT PEOPLE TRIED TO INFLICT SERIOUS INJURY ON EACH OTHER DOESN'T COME INTO IT. Violence at GAA matches now appears to be endemic. I spoke to some GAA people tonight and they are appalled by the decision.

Minister O' Donoghue. It is been alleged that the GAA are demanding €50 million if rule 42 is overturned. Do not provide any more funding for the GAA until they sort out the violence in their games.

Your being blackmailed. The rules should be the same for everyone.

republic

22/11/2004, 10:10 AM

Under no circumstances should another cent be handed over to the GAAH.

This is blackmail pure and simple. Minister O'Donoghue should have the balls to tell them to 'f**k off' as bigot Jack Boothman once threatened to tell the government if they requested that Croke Park be opened to real international sport.

If it means that our international teams have to travel to the UK to play their matches and expose the GAAH for what they really are, then so be it.

TheJamaicanP.M.

22/11/2004, 10:27 AM

Onceahoop and republic, I agree with ye 100%. While I am a fan of Sean Kelly (the man has vision), I am deplored by the bigotry of the GAA. Considering his background, one would have thought that Jack Boothman would be more open-minded than most. However, he is simply a fat, useless b**tard. I believe that the only reason Sean Kelly is asking for such a hefty sum of money is to keep the hard-liners such as Boothman and McCaigue happy. As for Joe McDonagh, he's another cowardly tosser. I believe Croke Park will be opened up regardless. Its nice to see the GAA in debt. Hopefully they will be left with no other option than to let soccer and rugby into the taxpayers stadium.
I don't believe that another cent of taxpayers money should be given to a sectarian organisation. As for John O'Donoghue and his government, perhaps they should get their own house in order before they start interfering in Irish football. The FAI is obviously a poorly run organisation, but since when did Irish politicians become so great that they can take the moral high ground. Cathal Dervan wrote a fantastic article yesterday regarding the "Minister for Interference" and his budget for Irish sport in 2005. He has decided to give €750,000 to women's sport, while he will be providing the horse-racing and dog-racing industry with a total of €68.8million. Dont tell me that this arsehole or his government give a sh!te about Irish sport. They are puppets who simply keep the wealthy happy. As for the FAI and IRFU not having a stadium, perhaps they would have one now, if they had received the funding that the GAA have received over the past 12 years.

Open Croker but no more money for the GAA please.

Aberdonian Stu

22/11/2004, 11:53 AM

Kelly's hands are tied by the disgrace that is the committee that vets motions for Congress. The President and all living ex-Presidents sit on it and for the last couple of years the others, bar Peter Quinn, have ruled the motions on Rule 42 out of order. I know the man who wrote the Dublin motion for it very well, and I also know that he opposes amendment but feels it has a right to be put to vote. The reason it hasn't been voted on for the past few years is that the other ex-Presidents feel Rule 5 also needs amendment but the motions have accounted for this by stating 'amend rule 5 accordingly' which by GAA rules should suffice. It's a sham.

Seamuslawless

22/11/2004, 1:39 PM

Does anyone know the figures involved in sport funding over the last ten or twelve years ? Is there any way of knowing how much each sport has received in funding over this period ? i.e. how much funding the GAA has received in comparison with the IRFU and FAI .....

TheJamaicanP.M.

22/11/2004, 4:41 PM

:D :D :D

Cathal Dervan's an arsehole...

I didn't know dog racing was the preserve of the rich. That'll be news to most of the punters in the Tralee dog track too.

He certainly talks more sense than you. Sorry, maybe you are a journalist too Conor. Actually, judging by your standard of posts, I doubt it.

My point about the combined total of finance going to horse and dog racing industries is that it is simply satisfying those people within those industries. Its often the genuine sports people and grassroots that lose out. Remember the former minister for finance who secured €14million for a racecourse in his constituency. The distribution of sports funds in this country beggars belief.
Is it true that John O'Donoghue sent a 1,500 word press release out last week, yet there was no mention of football within it??

TheJamaicanP.M.

22/11/2004, 4:53 PM

:D :D

Whoah, I love it when posters get all personal. It says so much more than any amount of statistics (which say little enough anyway, as we all know).

It seems I've got to you, JamaicanPM. But rather than getting all tetchy, just PM me your observations about my posts rather than letting everyone know you're all upset.

That's not personal Conor. Everyone knows I say what I think on this site. That's probably why I'm so popular. Never seen you contribute much however. That is just my observation. Quite frankly, you're anti-everything, pro-nothing.
I can send you a PM but don't think you can speak Jamaican man.

jbyrne

22/11/2004, 6:09 PM

As for the FAI and IRFU not having a stadium, perhaps they would have one now, if they had received the funding that the GAA have received over the past 12 years.

yes, does anyone know how much the GAA have actually paid for the redevelopment themselves?? my very rough calculation is as follows:

total cost: €250m
gov paid to date: €110m (including most recent €40m promise)
current stadium debt: €98m ??
amt paid by GAA to date: €42m ???

if my calculations are correct, and I stand to be corrected, then the €42 million the GAA have actually paid would probably be paid by the sale of 10 year corporate boxes, premium seats etc. alone

also, whos to say that most of the remaining debt wont be paid off by the government over the next 10 to 15 years or so. the GAA know full well that no government will let them get into serious financial difficulty over the building of the stadium.

if the irfu/fai had had the access to government funds as mentioned above then they could have built their own ages ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I applaud the GAA for what they’ve done to Croke Park but given the large amount of public money that has already been handed over to them it would be a disgrace if anymore was given without other sports being allowed in.

Donal81

22/11/2004, 8:12 PM

yes, does anyone know how much the GAA have actually paid for the redevelopment themselves?? my very rough calculation is as follows:

total cost: €250m
gov paid to date: €110m (including most recent €40m promise)
current stadium debt: €98m ??
amt paid by GAA to date: €42m ???

if my calculations are correct, and I stand to be corrected, then the €42 million the GAA have actually paid would probably be paid by the sale of 10 year corporate boxes, premium seats etc. alone

also, whos to say that most of the remaining debt wont be paid off by the government over the next 10 to 15 years or so. the GAA know full well that no government will let them get into serious financial difficulty over the building of the stadium.

if the irfu/fai had had the access to government funds as mentioned above then they could have built their own ages ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I applaud the GAA for what they’ve done to Croke Park but given the large amount of public money that has already been handed over to them it would be a disgrace if anymore was given without other sports being allowed in.

This is a funny one. Although they've received a huge amount of grants from the Government, I'm not sure how accountable they are to the people, as it was a grant, as opposed to funding. Although the fact that they receive public money obviously means that we should have a say over how much they receive, the fact that they receive a grant doesn't make Croker a national stadium owned by the people. It's owned completely by the GAA. Grants or no grants, that isn't going to change so, unfortunately, they can do exactly what they want with it. No government is going to have a go at the GAA, especially over something as contentious as Croker. It may be opened up but it will be opened up if and when the GAA pleases. I'm not making a case for the GAA - I follow the GAA but only after soccer - but I think this is how it is, unfortunately. I'd love to see soccer in Croke Park but I can understand why plenty of people in the GAA have no intention of opening it up to soccer and rugby.

Éanna

22/11/2004, 9:03 PM

Éanna

22/11/2004, 9:15 PM

So you won't be going,If they open it up,then? ;)
I went to 4 or 5 Ireland games. that was it. Fed up of giving money to the incompetent bunglers in the FAI, and fed up of the crap atmosphere there. Also, never liked the idea of a 26-county team. the thought of giving money to the GAA would be impossible for me to take (as you may have guessed)

Slash/ED

22/11/2004, 9:24 PM

I went to 4 or 5 Ireland games. that was it. Fed up of giving money to the incompetent bunglers in the FAI, and fed up of the crap atmosphere there. Also, never liked the idea of a 26-county team. the thought of giving money to the GAA would be impossible for me to take (as you may have guessed)

But you're fine with going upto Tolka Park and giving your money to a fine establishment like Shels ;) :D

Éanna

22/11/2004, 9:53 PM

But you're fine with going upto Tolka Park and giving your money to a fine establishment like Shels ;) :D
no, not really. But its a necessary evil ;) And funnily enough, free VIP passes seem to come my way every now and again. i guess Ollie wants to thank me for figthing his corner so well all over the net :D

Plastic Paddy

23/11/2004, 9:22 AM

Yes there is. Now calm down the pair o' you, otherwise I'll send you for a little "re-educating" in the Siberian salt mines. (And that won't be nice when you're used to a life of sun, rum, de ladies and de 'erb, mister PM. ;) )

Conor, take the PM with a pinch of salt and you'll get along just fine. Just like me and you do, in fact. That pinch of salt is the very reason I never rise to your Celtic fan-baiting elsewhere on this board. :p

Right, that's that over with. Shake hands and let that be an end to it. :D

:D PP

Macy

23/11/2004, 9:29 AM

**** the GAA. I'd rather we played our home games in mongolia than give another cent to those money-grabbing rednecks. they're swimming in taxpayers money, giving their own players **** all and still playing the poor-mouth. they can stick their monument to "amateur sports" where the sun don't shine IMO. They have a DUTY to open it based on the money they've got. IMO, the government should be playing hardball here- they should tell them that ALL future funding to GAA all over the country is dependent on the opening of Croke Park. See how the stick-waving, thermos-of-tea-and-super-valu-plastic-bag-full-of-sandwiches, I'm-really-Irish-cos-I-watch-my-30-inbred-cousins-kick-each-other-around-and-call-it-football hicks like it when they're the ones being blackmailed. FÚCK them and their ground :mad:
Totally agree. The money the GAA have got for Croke Park would've built eP and we wouldn't be in this situation now.

Government gives millions to the GAA to rebuild Croke Park, Government refuses to back eP as they need anchors for their own stadium, FAI gives in (economically they had no choice given what the Government was promising), Government then say they won't be building the out of town stadium, years of Government inaction and indecision, FAI get blamed for not having a stadium built, whilst the GAA get praised for a virtually state funded facility.

I'd like to see figures for how much the GAA, Horsey Set and Doggy Worries have got over the lifetime of this Government compared to all other sports, never mind football.

roboyle

23/11/2004, 9:44 AM

republic

23/11/2004, 10:13 AM

**** the GAA. I'd rather we played our home games in mongolia than give another cent to those money-grabbing rednecks. they're swimming in taxpayers money, giving their own players **** all and still playing the poor-mouth. they can stick their monument to "amateur sports" where the sun don't shine IMO. They have a DUTY to open it based on the money they've got. IMO, the government should be playing hardball here- they should tell them that ALL future funding to GAA all over the country is dependent on the opening of Croke Park. See how the stick-waving, thermos-of-tea-and-super-valu-plastic-bag-full-of-sandwiches, I'm-really-Irish-cos-I-watch-my-30-inbred-cousins-kick-each-other-around-and-call-it-football hicks like it when they're the ones being blackmailed. FÚCK them and their ground :mad:

Brilliant post Eanna!! I couldn't have written it better myself. ;)

The f**kers want *more* money to open Croke Park plus, no doubt, a hefty percentage of gate receipts of the soccer and rugby internationals when played.

They say they are 'Irish' but their brand of 'Irishness' does not represent me or my family. Bitter Bigoted Bast*rds.

TheJamaicanP.M.

23/11/2004, 10:35 AM

Totally agree. The money the GAA have got for Croke Park would've built eP and we wouldn't be in this situation now.

Government gives millions to the GAA to rebuild Croke Park, Government refuses to back eP as they need anchors for their own stadium, FAI gives in (economically they had no choice given what the Government was promising), Government then say they won't be building the out of town stadium, years of Government inaction and indecision, FAI get blamed for not having a stadium built, whilst the GAA get praised for a virtually state funded facility.

I'd like to see figures for how much the GAA, Horsey Set and Doggy Worries have got over the lifetime of this Government compared to all other sports, never mind football.

Have to agree with you Macy. Also, what a great post by Eanna. Why do people accept bigotry and corruption in this country? The GAA are a sectarian organisation and dont deserve funding. The government fcuked up Eircom Park by blackmailing the similarly corrupt idiots within the FAI. Its enough to make anyone ashamed to be Irish. Its quite clear that the government should have withheld the latest grant from the GAA until they allowed soccer and rugby into Croker. With regard to the GAA's debt, I think it would suit them better if their clubs in America stopped sending funds back to Northern Ireland to do god knows what, and spent this money to pay off their debt. However, maybe they know that the government won't see them in trouble.

Macy

23/11/2004, 10:36 AM

1. FACT: The FAI had plans for a new stadium that would've been built several years ago for around the cost of the last installment of Croke Park funding
2. FACT: The FAI were told they would receive no funding for eP, the GAA may have started the re-development of Croke Park before Government funding was in place, they sure as hell wouldn't have go near to finishing it without it.
3. FACT: Any conditions of use that the GAA puts on Croke Park is to do with the GAA not the Government. If they want €40mill plus a large rent then the Government should tell them it's unacceptable, spin it to the whole country so that the GAA is shed in the light the bigots deserve.
4. FACT: The GAA is happy enough to use Football and Rugby grounds throughout the world for their games. I'd like to see them survive with no access to grounds in the rest of the world.

monutdfc

23/11/2004, 10:55 AM

GAA = votes, traditional FF votes. Simple as that. Any politician would be crazy to get offside with the GAA.
Now, I know I'm now risking an onslaught from Connor74, but O'Donoghue plays politics. I have never heard him make a policy statement in 10 years as minister (apart from his 'zero tolerance' initiative ha ha ha). His role now is to dole out money in his own and marginal consituencies (see how much McDaid gave to North Kerry before the last election because it looked like FF were going to lose a seat there) and to promote tourism (again his own constituency being a major beneficiary).

BTW, did anybody read the Sean Kelly interview in the Indo on Saturday? He asserted that All Ireland ticket prices were cheaper than the big games in soccer and rugby. Now I don't know about rugby, but I paid €60 for an All Ireland ticket in September, while my World Cup qualifier tickets cost €30, albeit a North Bucket seat..what is the dearest stand ticket for a WCQ in Lansdowne?

jbyrne

23/11/2004, 10:58 AM

Not going to get drawn into this argument like the last time, but here are a few points:
1. FACT: The GAA started re-building Croke Park before ANY promises of funding was made by the Government. They are perfectly entitled to apply for funding aid, like every other sporting organisation in the country. If you think they've received to much already, that's the fault of the Government, not the GAA.
2. FACT: The Government will be contributing more than double the contributions (combined) of the IRFU and FAI for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road - € 191m against the combined contributions of c € 70m. AT the end of the project the IRFU and FAI will own the stadium once again (although this has not been explicitly stated, it is understood to be the case). What other sports will be played there when the stadium is completed? What other sports are played there at the moment?

its a pretty well known fact that the GAA will never be able to pay back the loan on the redevelopment costs. at the moment they are paying interest only. its a pretty safe bet that the government will contribute most of the outstanding money although only time will tell on that one. therefore the government will have paid as much (€110m to date + €98m outstanding debt), if not more, on croke park as it will on lansdowne.

i'm sick of hearing about how great they are as an amateur organisation re-building the stadium etc. etc...... they dont charge amateur prices to go and watch their games/dine in their executive boxes do they??

its a fact that large amts of public money have gone into croke park and not a single cent more should go until a publically funded stadium is open to all the public.

in response to point 2 above..... the new lansdowne will be able to hold GAA matches and the GAA have already stated they would be interested in holding lower profile games there

gspain

23/11/2004, 1:28 PM

The fact that the GAA got so much taxpayers money is the government's fault. Can't blame them for taking all they could get.

If the government keep their commitments re Lansdowne then fair enough.

I actually thin kthe government should say to the GAA that they obviously have no need of future funding if they are turning down millions in rent from the F.A.I. and the IRFU.

They do deserve any criticism they get for being sectarian though. They don't get very much in the media.

liamon

23/11/2004, 1:29 PM

I've no great love of GAA. Their brand of football is primitive and boring. But, to blame them for this situation is daft. All they've done is look after their own interests. Money was on offer. They took it, no strings attached. To come back now and demand that they give the FAI/IRFU access is just not realistic or legally valid.

You can get upset, rant and rave, call them names and cry all you want. It won't change the reality of the situation.

Whether you like it or not, the GAA own Corker and they are 100% in their rights to charge a hefty sum in order to open it up to alternative sports. They have a monopoly on a resource and it makes good business sense to charge a hefty price for those who wish to gain access to that resource. Their attitude is practical, legally solid and totally justified.

Time to live in the real world kiddies.

If you want to hate someone, consider the following - FF gave the GAA husge sums of cash to keep the stadium closed. The same government suckered the FAI/IRFU into the dream world of a National stadium.
None of that is the fault of the GAA.

ken foree

23/11/2004, 1:35 PM

I've no great love of GAA. Their brand of football is primitive and boring.

we should just ban g. football, imagine how many center-halves we'd have then :confused: ;)

Éanna

23/11/2004, 1:36 PM

Whether you like it or not, the GAA own Corker and they are 100% in their rights to charge a hefty sum in order to open it up to alternative sports. They have a monopoly on a resource and it makes good business sense to charge a hefty price for those who wish to gain access to that resource. Their attitude is practical, legally solid and totally justified.

you're 100% correct there. but, given the amount of money they've got, they could show a little generosity of spirit. ultimately, it comes down to the government, who are to blame for the whole sorry mess.

Macy

23/11/2004, 2:04 PM

but, given the amount of money they've got, they could show a little generosity of spirit.
100% agree.

ultimately, it comes down to the government, who are to blame for the whole sorry mess.
100% agree with that too.

The GAA could start by removing Rule 42 immediately, then leave it up to the individual clubs/counties/central council to make their own decisions. Whether an agreement is reached is another question, but rule 42 is nothing but bigotry and hypocrisy (I'll repeat if it wasn't for Association Football, Rugby and Cricket clubs throughout the world, the foreign GAA clubs would have sod all venues for their games.)

It also makes no sense to have towns and cities trying to develop 2 (at least) grounds for various sports. I'll use Longford as an example, the money that has been put into both Flancare and Pearse Park seperately when we could've had one state of the art facility that would suit both codes is ridiculous.

Eirenua

23/11/2004, 2:28 PM

Do ye not all think that the GAA will play this one carefully so as not to upset the hardliners in their organisation. They will have to been seen to play hard ball with the government and FAI on the issue of opening up the stadium. Everything done in Ireland is behind closed doors and anything that comes out in the media before hand is part of propaganda machines.

Croke Park will be opened up I believe. But the details of the deal done will be carefully released. No doubt the GAA will get a sweetner from the Government. Notice how the GAA can get good deals with the government while the FAI get shafted. Shows which org is the smarter

Dotsy

23/11/2004, 3:56 PM

Out of interest does anyone know is it a condition of the government funding for the redevelopment of LR that it be made available for GAA matches?

Donal81

23/11/2004, 5:07 PM

While I see where the angry posters are coming from, I wouldn't go in for that level of criticism. The GAA own Croker and have done for decades. They have no obligation to open Croker to soccer or rugby, that is the crucial point. They may have received millions of our money but they aren't obliged to - that's just a fact. The GAA has done nothing but look after its own interests and one has to ask why they should open up their ground to sports with which they compete for attention on a daily basis? Especially when the FAI have done absolutely nothing to build their own...I know all the plans for Eircom Park and the Abbotstown mess but if the FAI had any level of cop, they could have started their own. Why should the GAA feel obliged to open up the ground? Like I said, I do follow the odd GAA match but soccer is my first love so I'm not a blinkered GAA fan. I'm just trying to see it from their side. Why blame them for it? FAI/Government's fault, as usual, IMO.

jbyrne

23/11/2004, 6:24 PM

Out of interest does anyone know is it a condition of the government funding for the redevelopment of LR that it be made available for GAA matches?

as mentioned above... it will be suitable for and available to the GAA

Pat O' Banton

23/11/2004, 6:48 PM

Why should the GAA feel obliged to open up the ground? Like I said, I do follow the odd GAA match but soccer is my first love so I'm not a blinkered GAA fan. I'm just trying to see it from their side. Why blame them for it? FAI/Government's fault, as usual, IMO.

Here are two of many reasons why; facilities for fans outside Croker, no lights on in the toilets in Casement, virtually everything that I have seen about Clones; the benches, the catering the general kip that this stadium is.

Secondaly the 'All Ireland' hurling championships is contested between two out of four Provinces (with occasional interest from Galway)

The GAA IMO should be humble enough to realise for the good of the fans of its sports around the country that it needs to accept and use the extra funding that football and rugby rent would give it to invest in their comfort and enjoyment, to give them decent facilities beyond D3 and give them a genuinely competive hurling championship to watch. However unfortunately the GAA and humility do not seem to go together. The great national sporting organisation of Ireland seems more interested in getting as much out of the tax payer as possible without ever taking their sporting interest (whether it be GAA, Football or Rugby) into consideration.

Macy

24/11/2004, 7:26 AM

Especially when the FAI have done absolutely nothing to build their own...I know all the plans for Eircom Park and the Abbotstown mess but if the FAI had any level of cop, they could have started their own. Why should the GAA feel obliged to open up the ground? Like I said, I do follow the odd GAA match but soccer is my first love so I'm not a blinkered GAA fan. I'm just trying to see it from their side. Why blame them for it? FAI/Government's fault, as usual, IMO.
Make up your mind, either the FAI have done nothing or they tried with eP and were fooked over by Bertie? You can't just write off the fact that the FAI had plans that needed some Government support, which the Government refused to give as it wanted the FAI to use it's own white elephant. There are many things the FAI are to blame with regard to football in this country, and god knows I'm one of their biggest critics, but they can't be blamed for this IMO.

The GAA have an 80000 seater stadium that was for the most part Government funded, and which no doubt will turn out to be wholly Government funded. It's the Governments fault for attaching no conditions to all their investment, but that doesn't stop the GAA being bigots.

SÓC

24/11/2004, 8:33 AM

Remarkable. Then you know something that some in the FAI who conceded that the plan was pie in the sky don't...

It may well be your opinion. It didn't happen and ergo it simply cannot be 'FACT'. I don't think the FAI would ever have had the wherewithal to put a stadium together, hence the lies (just HOW many seats have you sold Mr. O'Byrne?) and recriminations about the whole project and the personalities involved. I was amazed they even got that cute little model thing together. And a video too? For how many millions? Well done boys...

Era sure it's alright, they would have had 50 concerts and ice shows there every year, which were needed to keep the thing afloat. The plans for eircom Park were fantasy finance from the start.

The GAA are dead right in chancing their arm looking for €50m. If the situation was reversed I'd love the FAI and IRFU to do the same to the Grab All Assoc. The GAA got their finger out and managed to build a stadium. Fair play to them, even if they are biggots and double standards small minded so and so's.
They've called everyone's bluff and now have FAI/IRFU/Government by the short and curlies.

If only the FAI had that kind of vision.

gspain

24/11/2004, 9:22 AM

The F.A.I. were persuaded/bullied into dropping Eircom Park in favour of Abbottstown. With hindsight now they should have gone ahead or at least demanded an agreement from the government in the event of Abbottstown falling thorugh that EP would be funded. It did appear to be the right decision at the time.

The GAA have done remarkably well to get so much government money and to build Croke Park. They don't have to open it up. It is their decision. That doesn't mean they are not bigots.

Most national stadiums were not built by national FAs but by local or national governments.

Macy

24/11/2004, 9:25 AM

Remarkable. Then you know something that some in the FAI who conceded that the plan was pie in the sky don't...

It may well be your opinion. It didn't happen and ergo it simply cannot be 'FACT'. I don't think the FAI would ever have had the wherewithal to put a stadium together, hence the lies (just HOW many seats have you sold Mr. O'Byrne?) and recriminations about the whole project and the personalities involved. I was amazed they even got that cute little model thing together. And a video too? For how many millions? Well done boys...
Was that when O'Byrne was trying to justify going ahead with eP after the Government said they were going to input no funding for it, due to this great stadium that's due to open in Abbotstown in the next year or two?

The FAI had no choice but to ditch eP with the promises bertie and co were making about Abbotstown revenue for the association. It was the only show in town once Bertie said no FAI funding. We've had this discussion before Conor, where you maintained that the Government couldn't be trusted to deliver it's promises, that the FAI should've known this, so the Government were exempt of any blame.

Donal81

24/11/2004, 9:27 AM

Make up your mind, either the FAI have done nothing or they tried with eP and were fooked over by Bertie? You can't just write off the fact that the FAI had plans that needed some Government support, which the Government refused to give as it wanted the FAI to use it's own white elephant. There are many things the FAI are to blame with regard to football in this country, and god knows I'm one of their biggest critics, but they can't be blamed for this IMO.

The GAA have an 80000 seater stadium that was for the most part Government funded, and which no doubt will turn out to be wholly Government funded. It's the Governments fault for attaching no conditions to all their investment, but that doesn't stop the GAA being bigots.

When the FAI presides over the greatest boom both in interest in football in this country and also in revenue to be earned from football and all it can come up with is a few plans, that is doing nothing, in my book. Why the reliance on government support for everything?

I'm not sure what context you're referring to the GAA as bigots. If it's in relation to the ban that was there for years on soccer and rugby and also on members of the Northern security forces, you have a point. If it's in relation to Croker, I'd disagree with you. If the FAI were in the GAA's position, they'd be doing the exact same thing.

Soccer has no legal right to Croke Park as it's a GAA stadium and I can understand why GAA people get so bolshy when soccer fans put pressure on them to open it.

Macy

24/11/2004, 9:38 AM

I'm not sure what context you're referring to the GAA as bigots. If it's in relation to the ban that was there for years on soccer and rugby and also on members of the Northern security forces, you have a point. If it's in relation to Croker, I'd disagree with you. If the FAI were in the GAA's position, they'd be doing the exact same thing.
It is because of the bans, but also on the fact that no GAA grounds are open to football and rugby. It is bigotry, as American Football is okay for their grounds, Special Olympics are okay for their grounds, Garth Brookes is okay for their grounds, Feile's are okay for their grounds, but essentially they ban two sports on the basis that they are British/Protestant.

And it's also hypocrisy, as I've said before the GAA relies on these so called foreign sports for their games to be played in other countries. Christ their happy enough to use Rugby and Football Clubs to train on in this country...

tiktok

24/11/2004, 9:39 AM

If the FAI were in the GAA's position, they'd be doing the exact same thing.

Exactly.

It's not the GAA's fault that the government gave them millions in grants.
It's not the GAA's fault that the FAI did so little with the money they've received.
It's not the GAA's fault that there was no provisions put on the money awarded.

Even though I don't like it, I think the GAA are perfectly within their rights to look for money to open up Croker. Money was always going to be the grease on the hinges anyway, the running costs of the stadium are huge.

It's a bit rich to knock the Govt. for giving the money to build Croker though, when they're giving as much to redevelop Landsdowe.

This goes back to the GAA being an amateur association being run professionally and the FAI being a professional association run amateurishly.

Macy

24/11/2004, 9:51 AM

It's a bit rich to knock the Govt. for giving the money to build Croker though, when they're giving as much to redevelop Landsdowe.
They should've given the money way back when eP was on the table, then we wouldn't still be discussing it? We'd have our own state of the art stadium by now.

Dotsy

24/11/2004, 10:36 AM

as mentioned above... it will be suitable for and available to the GAA

Thanks for that but do you know if is was a condition attached to the government funding for LR that it be made available to the GAA for matches.

gspain

24/11/2004, 10:46 AM

Thanks for that but do you know if is was a condition attached to the government funding for LR that it be made available to the GAA for matches.

It is definitely available for GAA. It was part of the conditions announced at the time.

Anyway Lansdowne Road would be available today for GAA if anybody asked the rugby crowd. They'd be happy to rent it out.

Indeed any sporting organisation on this planet would be happy to rent out their facilities for a reasonable fee if not already in use. That is bar one.

Macy

24/11/2004, 11:19 AM

The GAA consistently make the point that why should they change their rules - they haven't even been asked by the FAI for the use of the pitch.
They should change it's rules because it's wrong, outdated, hypocritical and bigotted. Whether they then choose to rent out Croker is another thing, but the ban should preclude them from receiving any further Government funds for any part of their organisation.

gspain

24/11/2004, 12:26 PM

With all our 'let's blame the Government' 'let's blame the GAA' 'let's blame every other organisation for the woes of the FAI', can anyone tell me whether or not the FAI have ever actually asked to use Croke Park? The GAA consistently make the point that why should they change their rules - they haven't even been asked by the FAI for the use of the pitch.

The F.A.I. don't for fear of embarrassing the GAA.

Limerick asked to use the Gaelic Grounds in 1981 and were refused and indeed had a scheme to buy it and sell it back for less money a day later drawn up but the local GAA backed out of it. They were actually quite supportive and confident it did not break GAA rules but the Munster Council would have slaughtered them and the ground would have been blacklisted for years afterwards. Ballindereen after they gave their pitch to Galway United and didn't host a game for 8 years afterwards. The pitch was community owned to the local GAA club were able to rent it out. they got hit hard for supporting Galway United though.

Statoil also tried to hold the F.A.I. Junior Cup draw in a Croke Park function room.

The GAA haven't changed their rules because of a minority of bigots who would rather burn Croke Park than allow a British game in there.

boc123

24/11/2004, 1:13 PM

Exactly.

It's not the GAA's fault that the government gave them millions in grants.
It's not the GAA's fault that the FAI did so little with the money they've received.
It's not the GAA's fault that there was no provisions put on the money awarded.

Even though I don't like it, I think the GAA are perfectly within their rights to look for money to open up Croker. Money was always going to be the grease on the hinges anyway, the running costs of the stadium are huge.

It's a bit rich to knock the Govt. for giving the money to build Croker though, when they're giving as much to redevelop Landsdowe.

This goes back to the GAA being an amateur association being run professionally and the FAI being a professional association run amateurishly.

Finally someone talks sense on this whole issue. I Agree 100% with all the above.

Donal81

24/11/2004, 1:35 PM

I can understand the criticism of the GAA as being hypocritical and bigoted. What I don't understand is why people assume or expect them to open it up to the FAI and soccer. While I appreciate soccer, GAA and rugby, I can also appreciate the history of the GAA in which many of its members are steeped. You can call this sectartianism, bigotry or love for the games and their history - it's not going to change either way and I'm not making a case for either option. The GAA have an impressive stadium which was developed to be a modern HQ for gaelic games. I don't think they are obliged to allow in associations which can't get their act together to build their own stadium. It would be nice of them, sure, and I'd love to see an international game played in a decent stadium for once but I don't expect them to be nice.

The GAA might be bolshy towards soccer, some here say they are bigoted, but they aren't obliged to help out soccer or rugby and at least they deliver for their members and aren't run by an incompetent shower of sh*tes. That's why I don't get the ferocity of the criticism here.