Promotion/Relegation Play-Offs 2014

[wonder88]

Tight and tense game till Shanahan's goal just before h-t, that was the big moment of the contest. During the last 20m of game Galway missed 5 at least good chances. Did not hear a crowd figure given out, the PA was ropey all night, but that twitter figure; 3k looks accurate to me. Great to get into the top division and well deserved by a likeable bunch of players.
Noticed at the end of the game Colm Horgan celebrating with his parents and family including Daryl; not a bad sporting week in that household at all.
Not nice for the relegated clubs, hope a few new teams join the 1st division or maybe 2 promotion places guaranteed out of it. However it is not all bad there, nice style of soccer played and the referring was better than the prem division.

[sligoman]

If he's working as an officer trying to develop local players in Sligo then he's got a tough job on his hands :cool:Trying to start up a bit of rivalry again now ye are back up? :o Great to see Galway FC get into the Premier Division for the first time, handy trip and points. Good to see them get promoted on the pitch too, rather than with a DVD like Galway United did.

Dunne is a spoofer though, hard to pick between him and Cousins as to who will be sacked first next season.

[Olander]

Trying to start up a bit of rivalry again now ye are back up? :o Great to see Galway FC get into the Premier Division for the first time, handy trip and points. Good to see them get promoted on the pitch too, rather than with a DVD like Galway United did.

Dunne is a spoofer though, hard to pick between him and Cousins as to who will be sacked first next season.
What are you ****ing on about you looper? Imagine being that much of a weirdo. Horrendous windup attempt

[Charlie Darwin]

Trying to start up a bit of rivalry again now ye are back up? :o Great to see Galway FC get into the Premier Division for the first time, handy trip and points. Good to see them get promoted on the pitch too, rather than with a DVD like Galway United did.

Dunne is a spoofer though, hard to pick between him and Cousins as to who will be sacked first next season.
Have you seen Galway play this year?

[WoodquayBoy]

UCD were shocking last night - 2-0 down and they take off a winger and put on a defender. Absolutely bizarre. Dunne had us playing lovely stuff, on the ground, a real joy to watch. Ended the season with 9 wins in 11 games (drawing the other 2) - he has been a great manager for us, looking forward to seeing what we can do against the top sides.

[Terry]

Dunne a spoofer? We played the best football I have seen since back in the early 90's. If we keep the core of our team and tempt a few lads to come home, we'll have a decent season next year. We're under no illusions for what lays ahead next season. There is a huge gap between the 2 leagues quality wise and our aim will be simply avoiding relegation, but we'll fear no one.

[Mr Maroon]

Dunne is a spoofer in fairness.

[Paddyfield]

Show me a football manager who is not a spoofer and I will show you a bag of Choc Ices

[pineapple stu]

First off - congrats Galway. Better team over the two legs by a distance. I think ye've done your penance for the DVD crimes and hope ye do well in the Premier.

That said, ye will need to improve. As with the first leg, one of the poorest teams I've seen all season. Basic ball retention was awful at times. I don't know how Galway stand with regards signing other players - are ye particularly limited by local players? Or could ye sign a few experienced LoI heads and convince them to move? - but without improvement, that team will be in the play-offs in 12 months' time (assuming Bray field a team of five-year-olds and people paying for the fun of a place on an LoI team). But I'm sure ye will improve.

Dunne is a spoofer alright. Prior history at UCD and Cork will tell you that.

Thought the ref was poor - and I don't usually give out about refs. But this guy had no concept of the advantage rule whatsoever. Was ridiculous at times. The best was when he called back a two-on-two attack for Galway to give them a free on the half-way line. Farcical stuff like that all night.

But WoodquayBoy's post above only touched on the briefest bit of the worst part of last night. Yes, 2-0 down, ye took off a winger and put on a defender - and then went 4-2-4, hoofed the ball up front for the rest of the night, thereby bypassing our two best players.

But worse - on 47 minutes, with the tie still not entirely over, we took off our only starting forward. Why on 47 minutes? Why not half time? What was to be gained from those two minutes? Was the sub not ready? I don't know.

But it got better - we then stuck a ****ing centre half up front! For 40+ minutes, chasing our Premier Division survival, we take off a forward and stick a centre half up front, while our best player (Benson) is practically playing in centre half.

And more! We then went 3-4-3, with the centre-half flanked by a midfielder and a winger up front! With a ****ing forward on the bench having been subbed off!

Or maybe it was 3-5-2, with a centre-back and a midfielder up front and two wingers playing at being wing backs. I just don't know. And God knows what the players thought.

I have never seen anything like that before. Needless to say, the centre half won a few headers and did little else aside.

Could have been 5 or 6 in the end; obviously we had to chase the game, which left holes at the back, and after the second, heads were gone entirely. Only some poor finishing by Galway let us off the hook in the end.

In the end, we were relegated by a point. You could look back at Athlone's equaliser in September - the rest of a goalkeeping fumble - and blame that. Or you could look at Bray signing four players in the transfer window and then not paying them, while we turned down players asking to sign back because our budget was spent and blame that.

But any team who takes off a forward to put a bloody centre half up front for 40+ minutes in the most vital game in the club's history in years has no business being in the Premier.

Best of luck to Galway next season. Been through the wringer, and great to see ye on the rise again. Will see Mr A and Ash and - are there any other First Division fans? - next season. We'll be the ones with pitchforks and fire.

[Nesta99]

What are you ****ing on about you looper? Imagine being that much of a weirdo. Horrendous windup attempt

Such bad a windup that you respond using choice language and calling sligoman a looper and weirdo...caught hook line and sinker:D

[Dalymountrower]

Dunne is a spoofer though, hard to pick between him and Cousins as to who will be sacked first next season.

My money would be on Heary to go before either of the above

[pineapple stu]

"Our ex manager's the worst!"

"No, ours is worse!"

"Nuh-aa! Ours was awfuler"

Got to love football. :)

Except when you've got a bloody centre-half up front for 40 minutes to chase a game while a forward sits on the bench.

[Terry]

Agree with everything you said pineapple stu but this was a young nervous team and with that comes silly simple mistakes. If you look at our team that played last night I believe only 2 players were over 25 years of age with half of the remainder of the team under 21. Manning our #8 is still only 17 and he got the man of the match.

Financially we can bring in players but they will have to agree to the clubs structures, something a lot of experienced LOI players won't like.

[Olander]

Such bad a windup that you respond using choice language and calling sligoman a looper and weirdo...caught hook line and sinker:D
Not bothered in the least, we're back in the Premier, I'm delighted. :D

[pineapple stu]

Agree with everything you said pineapple stu but this was a young nervous team and with that comes silly simple mistakes. If you look at our team that played last night I believe only 2 players were over 25 years of age with half of the remainder of the team under 21. Manning our #8 is still only 17 and he got the man of the match.

Financially we can bring in players but they will have to agree to the clubs structures, something a lot of experienced LOI players won't like.

Appreciate it was a big occasion for what was in effect a new team (if not a new club), and that while it was 0-0, the size of the crowd was maybe more daunting than encouraging. So yeah, I can understand nerves. But trust me - if ye were nervous playing a team in freefall riven by internal fights who had a centre half up front, there will be streams of what looks like, but isn't, water coming down players' legs when ye travel to Drogheda. And someone like Keith Fahey will cause your players to have heart attacks with nerves simply by emerging from the tunnel alongside them.

And that's not really conducive to staying up. :)

[Terry]

But that's not the same pressures as last night where nearly 3000 people are expecting you to win, that's a chance to prove yourself with no great expectations.

[Charlie Darwin]

And someone like Keith Fahey will cause your players to have heart attacks with nerves simply by emerging from the tunnel alongside them.
A tunnel he's spent the previous hour complaining to a journalist about.

[micls]

Dunne is a spoofer

Nonsense.

He's a relatively new manager learning the ropes in many ways but he's far from a spoofer. He's taken 2 teams in the first division and gotten them promoted playing some lovely football.

He's not yet at the level for a club that wants to be top half of the premier, but trying to claim he's a spoofer is ridiculous. His record speaks for itself. He's a decent manager at league of Ireland level.

There's definite areas he had to improve, choice of signings was a big one with us, keeping the dressing room happy when things were going badly was another. But I think with time and experience hell improve in those areas.

He did exactly what we asked of him when we hired him, and it's a shame it ended negatively when he wasn't ready to bring us to the next level we were asking for, but city history will remember Tommy Dunne fondly, and that run in the year we won the first division was some of the best memories most city fans have

Delighted he's doing well again with Galway, and fully confident he can keep them in the premier next year. The question will be what their expectations are.

[pineapple stu]

He took Cork out of the First Division at the second attempt. Well done him.

Then got sacked half way through the next season I think?

Was Doolin's right hand man at ucd.

None of that is really great tbh.

Bit early to judge him at Galway yet. But beating a shambolic ucd team isn't a huge achievement.

Next season will tell a lot I'm sure. Maybe he's improved. I'm happy to remain unconvinced for now.

[El-Pietro]

finished 6th in his first season with us in the premier, which was acceptable, but he wasn't able to kick on and some of his signings were very poor in 2013

[outspoken]

Wouldn't be a Dunne fan either but he honestly did have galway playing the best football in the division this season (or for large parts of it anyway) although some would argue the Mervue influence in the squad had a lot to do with it as they played a great passing style last season. If Dunne signs well in the off season you'd have to imagine Galway will stay up, big pressure tho.

[WoodquayBoy]

His team can only beat the muck that's in front of him, not his fault UCD are rubbish. His side also beat a decent Shels side, won 9 of last 11 games and drew the other 2. We're not claiming to be world beaters or to have the best manager, but right now he got us promoted and so is the best manager for us

[pineapple stu]

Not arguing with any of that alright

[wonder88]

In answer to Stu interesting points on last night's game

The refs in the first division were better this season than those in the premier, and it was a surprise to me to see one of our "top refs" given the game.

I was far from sure when Dunne got the job, and while we (myself included) rarely do in life, everyone should be given a chance. From the start the team has played a nice style of soccer. Last night was the most long ball they have played this season, along with 1st half of game in Belfield.
This might be due to lack of ability when they come up against better players, but I see room for improvement in a lot of them.

I believe you would have made the same judgement on Gary Rodgers, Bisto Flood, Séamus Connneely when they first played at Terryland. Even Séamus Coleman had a few faults when he was at Sligo. Hoban and Rory Gaffney did not look top LoI strikers when the played here in Galway either.
UCD players, fair play to them, always looks more polished than other weak teams. A good example would be Ronan Finn, but despite all the predictions he still waiting on the move to a big english club. I hope he gets as I like watching him play. Himself and S Williams were part of a Sporting Fingal team that played some of the nicest stuff I have seen played in the LoI Game in Terryland on a fine summers evening, Zayed also played that night.

There is 5/6 of last nights Galway team who can progress, but I agree that a few new players need to be signed as well. Players improve also when they step up a level.

[micls]

He took Cork out of the First Division at the second attempt. Well done him.

Then got sacked half way through the next season I think?

Was Doolin's right hand man at ucd.

None of that is really great tbh.

Bit early to judge him at Galway yet. But beating a shambolic ucd team isn't a huge achievement.

Next season will tell a lot I'm sure. Maybe he's improved. I'm happy to remain unconvinced for now.

You've gone from saying his history at cork proved he was a spoofer, despite getting that history wrong, to saying his achievements were not great. Maybe we have different definitions of spoofer but for me there's a huge gap between those two...

He got us promoted in the first season he was in any position to do so, mourinho couldn't have gotten us promoted that first year. He then had us finish a respectable 6th our first year back in the Premier with a limited budget. Again meeting the expectations at the time. What he couldn't do for us was push on into top half and challenging for Europe, he's not that level of manager yet. That's why he was sacked. That doesn't in any way make him a spoofer. He's an inexperienced manager capable of a certain level for now, and he's proved with Galway that he's good at that level. I expect his second time round in the Premier with a team hell do a bit better overall than he did with us, and I wish him the best of luck.

Dunne was in no way a spoofer for us, he did exactly what we asked of him until we got to a level he wasnt ready for yet. There's no shame in that.

[PartySaint]

In fairness to Dunne he had Cork playing some really nice football at times and just looked to be a few players short of really challenging higher up the table, then Caulfield came in and looks like he got more of a financial backing than Dunne did, so he might feel a little hard done by.

[micls]

In fairness to Dunne he had Cork playing some really nice football at times and just looked to be a few players short of really challenging higher up the table, then Caulfield came in and looks like he got more of a financial backing than Dunne did, so he might feel a little hard done by.

JCs budget is definitely not bigger than Dunnes. We made a significant loss last year, with Dunne, and have been trying to make up for it this year. The bigger crowds have helped but budget would have been smaller to start. Caulfield very charismatic and I think is better at attracting players to come to us. Dunne struggled with who he signed and signing players in the right positions. We also brought through a lot of unknown locals and youth players this year, and one thing Caulfield does incredibly well is get the best out of someone willing to work hard for him. Mark o Sullivan, Rob lehane, Brian Lenihan, Kavanagh, Josh o shea were all brought through, none of which would have been on decent wages at the start. I think JC did particularly well in integrating our 'big money' players with the guys he was giving a chance to.

I don't think there's any doubt Caulfield is the better manager for us. His history with the club, his passion and focus have rallied the Cork public around us for the first time in a long time. People want to listen to what he says, he makes people want to be a part of it. That's an incredibly valuable off the pitch skill for a manager which has hugely benefitted the club

[Martinho II]

not very often that two first cousins win the first div title and the playoffs! delighted for Galway. when was the last time a first div side won the playoffs? What is goin to be the story with Callaghan for next season -judgin from his spell with us I dont rate him as a manager but as a first class no 2! hes too tempramental for starters!

[gufc2000]

not very often that two first cousins win the first div title and the playoffs! delighted for Galway. when was the last time a first div side won the playoffs? What is goin to be the story with Callaghan for next season -judgin from his spell with us I dont rate him as a manager but as a first class no 2! hes too tempramental for starters!
Monaghan United in 2011 were the last First Division side to win the play-off.

Out of the 21 play-off series' since they were introduced in 1992/1993, First Division sides have only been victorious on 9 occasions- Monaghan Utd (1993, 2011), Home Farm Everton (1996), Kilkenny City (2000), Dublin City (2005), Dundalk (2006), Finn Harps (2007), Sporting Fingal (2009), Galway FC (2014).

[Ezeikial]

Monaghan United in 2011 were the last First Division side to win the play-off.

Out of the 21 play-off series' since they were introduced in 1992/1993, First Division sides have only been victorious on 9 occasions- Monaghan Utd (1993, 2011), Home Farm Everton (1996), Kilkenny City (2000), Dublin City (2005), Dundalk (2006), Finn Harps (2007), Sporting Fingal (2009), Galway FC (2014).

2006 - the year of the fix

[patrickccfc]

2006 - the year of the fix
Things seem to have worked out well for ye since

[jinxy lilywhite]

Things seem to have worked out well for ye since


It's been a long road Patrick

[El-Pietro]

In fairness to Dunne he had Cork playing some really nice football at times and just looked to be a few players short of really challenging higher up the table, then Caulfield came in and looks like he got more of a financial backing than Dunne did, so he might feel a little hard done by.

budget was significantly reduced in 2014 after some very large losses last year.

Daryl Kavanagh, Adam Rundle and others were on decent money in 2013 and did not work out.

[Paddyfield]

The billionaire sponsors of Galway, who have already committed €300,000 to the club, intend to increase their investment.... according to their own website
http://www.thecomergroup.com/news/comer-brothers-will-be-extending-their-sponsorship-of-galway-fc

[WoodquayBoy]

That article is months old - refers to renaming of the stand 'this week', which certainly wasn't this week!

[Terry]

What he is highlighting is that the comer brothers will be investing in the club long term rather than just the 3 years.

[stann]

Out of the 21 play-off series' since they were introduced in 1992/1993, First Division sides have only been victorious on 9 occasions- Monaghan Utd (1993, 2011), Home Farm Everton (1996), Kilkenny City (2000), Dublin City (2005), Dundalk (2006), Finn Harps (2007), Sporting Fingal (2009), Galway FC (2014).
And feckin' hell, four of those nine were against us!
I do think the relegation part of the play-off should have been dispensed with by now - promotion play-offs by all means, but relegation should be automatic. An imbalance that the second-last-placed side might have weeks (or half the season :p) to effectively abandon a busted flush of a premier division campaign and concentrate on the one game that will keep them up, while the promotion-seeking side knock the sh!te out of themselves to make that same game.
Must add my +1 to the Galway congrats though, best footballing side in the Division this year by some way.

[jinxy lilywhite]

And feckin' hell, four of those nine were against us!
I do think the relegation part of the play-off should have been dispensed with by now - promotion play-offs by all means, but relegation should be automatic. An imbalance that the second-last-placed side might have weeks (or half the season :p) to effectively abandon a busted flush of a premier division campaign and concentrate on the one game that will keep them up, while the promotion-seeking side knock the sh!te out of themselves to make that same game.
Must add my +1 to the Galway congrats though, best footballing side in the Division this year by some way.


Still sore?

Promotion/Relegation play offs are what they are. All clubs know the rules before the campaign starts.

[stann]

Still sore?

Promotion/Relegation play offs are what they are. All clubs know the rules before the campaign starts.

Incisive. Play-offs are different in different jurisdictions, and have been known to change. The football league in England did away with the relegation aspect of their play-off system within a couple of seasons IIRC. Serie A never had it, I think. Of course all clubs know what the rules are before each season, doesn't alter the view that it's far from the best system.

You'd be surprised how quickly quite a lot of Blues fans got over that play-off, by the way (and the ill-advised and regrettable course of action taken afterwards), and any residual memory would have been fairly comprehensively wiped out by the season just endured, so jokey reference notwithstanding, no.
Nice to see it's still forefront in some people's minds though.

[BonnieShels]

And feckin' hell, four of those nine were against us!
I do think the relegation part of the play-off should have been dispensed with by now - promotion play-offs by all means, but relegation should be automatic. An imbalance that the second-last-placed side might have weeks (or half the season :p) to effectively abandon a busted flush of a premier division campaign and concentrate on the one game that will keep them up, while the promotion-seeking side knock the sh!te out of themselves to make that same game.
Must add my +1 to the Galway congrats though, best footballing side in the Division this year by some way.


Still finished third. Gah.

[Ezeikial]

Still sore?

Promotion/Relegation play offs are what they are. All clubs know the rules before the campaign starts.

Not always

[nigel-harps1954]

Still sore?

Promotion/Relegation play offs are what they are. All clubs know the rules before the campaign starts.

Should we simply accept the status quo though? I think the idea of 2 up and 2 down is much more appealing straight out than a relegation play off, and that's not just because Harps are in the First Division. When we were last relegated, there was a shift in numbers in the Premier and three teams went straight down, meaning much more competition right through to the last day of the season towards the bottom end of the table.

Would certainly be in favour of two down, one up automatically with second/third promotion play-off as is the case in most European leagues.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Not always

I maybe wrong but as far I know 2006 had no promotion or relegation that season and positions were determined over some criteria that I forget. Also the game between Dundalk and Waterford in the playoff was not sanctioned and as I remember Des Casey at the time was on the restructuring panel and critised the game taking place.
Dundalk didn't make the cut that year and neither did Waterford but shelbournes collapse relegated them and Waterford took their place.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Should we simply accept the status quo though? I think the idea of 2 up and 2 down is much more appealing straight out than a relegation play off, and that's not just because Harps are in the First Division. When we were last relegated, there was a shift in numbers in the Premier and three teams went straight down, meaning much more competition right through to the last day of the season towards the bottom end of the table.

Would certainly be in favour of two down, one up automatically with second/third promotion play-off as is the case in most European leagues.

I would prefer the same because the league is the league and the placings should be defacto. In our league though with 12 team division v and 8 team there should be only 2nd v 2nd from bottom if there is a playoff.

Isn't there UEFA rule that if there is a change in league promotion/relegation then 2 years notice has to be given

[Ezeikial]

I maybe wrong but as far I know 2006 had no promotion or relegation that season and positions were determined over some criteria that I forget. Also the game between Dundalk and Waterford in the playoff was not sanctioned and as I remember Des Casey at the time was on the restructuring panel and critised the game taking place.
Dundalk didn't make the cut that year and neither did Waterford but shelbournes collapse relegated them and Waterford took their place.

It is a time and series of events that are probably best left where they lie.