Shamrock Rovers v Liverpool

[Mr A]

I don't have much time for him, but that article is absolutely spot on.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't have much time for him, but that article is absolutely spot on.
This part


More of their fans went on Wednesday than to any competitive game at Tallaght so far this season.

isn't. Being generous, there were as many there as there were for Athlone on Saturday.

[Mr A]

OK, but the general thrust of the article is right. While it may be fun to mock barstoolers, ultimately it is up to us within the league to work to make the arguments and the changes that will convince more people to get interested in it. Ranting or sneering at people won't help, it's counter productive.

[Charlie Darwin]

OK, but the general thrust of the article is right. While it may be fun to mock barstoolers, ultimately it is up to us within the league to work to make the arguments and the changes that will convince more people to get interested in it. Ranting or sneering at people won't help, it's counter productive.
It's one of the many pointless articles that gets written any time there's a fixture like this. Somebody says it's a shame Irish people don't support their local sides, others say they have no right to sneer, some other people say they can hardly be expected to support Shamrock Rovers when Tallaght is an area traditionally associated with drug use and petty theft so they support Liverpool instead, then somebody like Richie comes along and says football is entertainment so you can hardly blame them. There's no real rhyme or reason to it. I'm sure in a couple of weeks Richie will be back with a plan to restructure the league as an A-League style franchise system based along the borders of the medieval kingdoms of Ireland or some such nonsense.

[Straightstory]

It's simple really: If Irish people had the inclination to support clubs from their own country, instead of (or indeed, as well as) other countries, then we would have games here attracting ten to fifteen thousand people instead of fifteen hundred people. Basically the problem is a lack of imagination: barstoolers can't see that the more people that support a league, the more attractive it will become and the standard of football and facilities will go up. Sadlier's argument is basically saying nothing can ever change. He's probably right - but only because Irish football supporters of Liverpool, Celtic, Man U etc. are lazy and unimaginative and, in my experience, somewhat child-like. I find myself disliking them more and more.

[Straightstory]

The League of Ireland is the Perfect Catch 22 situation: People won't support it because it's not up to scratch, and it's not up to scratch because people won't support it.

[Mr A]

There's no point blaming the public. Even when you're right it gets you nowhere.

[TheBoss]

Ireland is one of the few countries in the world/europe (in relation to football on this issue) that do not have a great following unlike other leagues and deservedly needs to be investigated why that is the case. Whether that football followers or the clubs themselves are reason, they both need critical examination.

Ultimately, football is about your local area against another clubs local area, the majority of fans in Ireland that follow clubs from other leagues do not understand the feeling of following your local team as they represent you and your community on the national level. You have to be from Manchester or Liverpool to understand the rivalry between the two cities, it goes beyond football and the fans more than likely have absolutely no idea about that. They think its about success of the two over the last 40 or so years but even if both were low league teams that never a trophy, the rivalry would still have developed.

They can make up that daftest reason why they follow their team;

"My father/mother/brother/sister/cousin supported them, so I decided to follow them."
"I have family/relatives from the area"

etc.

But if you counter that argument and ask them about why they follow their GAA club/county, you will more than likely get answers along the lines of;

"Well, I'm Dublin man, what else you would you expect?"

etc.

In GAA, people feel obliged to support their parish/county team, they do not even question it, if your from Dublin, you have to follow Dublin etc.

LOI clubs and perhaps fans themselves have got to try and instill that pride in their teams, so that next generation can feel that the club is part of them. But in saying that, parents of this next generation often force/influence their support on to them, and thats another hurdle to overcome.

[DannyInvincible]

Richard Sadliers take on the match makes depressing reading for Eircom league fans. Pretty clear he doesnt rate the league so maybe he should stick to writing about the Premiership and Champions League instead of writing dismissive articles like this http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/the-only-surprise-is-that-people-are-still-surprised-30282650.html

I think he makes some very constructive points, and he did get the name of the league right at least. :)


It's simple really: If Irish people had the inclination to support clubs from their own country, instead of (or indeed, as well as) other countries, then we would have games here attracting ten to fifteen thousand people instead of fifteen hundred people. Basically the problem is a lack of imagination: barstoolers can't see that the more people that support a league, the more attractive it will become and the standard of football and facilities will go up. Sadlier's argument is basically saying nothing can ever change. He's probably right - but only because Irish football supporters of Liverpool, Celtic, Man U etc. are lazy and unimaginative and, in my experience, somewhat child-like. I find myself disliking them more and more.

It's simply all their fault... Isn't that kind of convenient? People are free to be interested in different things, so no point blaming others if they don't want to associate with the league. It's a matter of those already involved (including the FAI) accepting responsibility and taking ownership. If the supposed laziness and lack of imagination of the Irish public truly concerns you, try to do something to captivate their interest. Convince them its worth their investment. Shirking responsibility and playing the victim card also happen to be child-like. As Sadlier highlights, it's unfortunate that even when clubs did have more money rolling around, rather than putting it towards long-term investment and sustainable development, short-sightedness saw them throw it at players in the form of higher wages.

[blueblood]

It's the irish way isn't it, complain about how bad things are and do nothing to help improve the situation and then look down their nose at the people who do try to make a difference/stand

[Bosco]

Usually have a lot of time for Sadlier, he tends to tell it like it is but I think this article is a bit simplistic. While he is right about how ridiculous it is the way loi fans sneer at and insult "barstoolers" as if that is ever going to help things, I don't think he gives any balance to it at all. Think a lot of the reason Loi fans tend to do that is for the simple fact that they are used to getting abuse from people who support British teams about the league, it works both ways.

At times a LOI fan with a chip on their shoulder abusing someone for not supporting their local club can be just as irritating as someone in a Liverpool or United Jersey singing in an English accent.

People need to realise that in order for the League to ever get more popular it is up to people involved in it to attract people to it, not try and abuse and guilt them into it.

[Mr A]

"42000 morons" says Dermot Keely.

:)

[White Horse]

Say it like it is Dermot.

[Charlie Darwin]

Tell it like it is, Richie. Merge all the Dublin clubs and watch the fans flock to the gates.

[Mr A]

Summer Soccer is the answer according to Stuey Byrne. Sweet good merciful Jebus.

[bennocelt]

Usually have a lot of time for Sadlier, he tends to tell it like it is but I think this article is a bit simplistic. While he is right about how ridiculous it is the way loi fans sneer at and insult "barstoolers" as if that is ever going to help things, I don't think he gives any balance to it at all. Think a lot of the reason Loi fans tend to do that is for the simple fact that they are used to getting abuse from people who support British teams about the league, it works both ways.

At times a LOI fan with a chip on their shoulder abusing someone for not supporting their local club can be just as irritating as someone in a Liverpool or United Jersey singing in an English accent.

People need to realise that in order for the League to ever get more popular it is up to people involved in it to attract people to it, not try and abuse and guilt them into it.

Its very normal for fans to mock people who tend to support from the comfort of their own home or in the bar, thats what fans do!:confused:
Its not just an irish thing. When Chelsea came to town I met two fans from basel who went to the game supporting the English team over their home team!

[GCdfc]

I got caught in traffic after this match. Thousands of people passed me and I said to myself "I wish I could see some Shamrock Rovers supporters." I honestly never thought I would say those words! Only 4 Rovers supporters passed me amongst maybe 4-5k people that passed me or that I passed.

[Bosco]

Its very normal for fans to mock people who tend to support from the comfort of their own home or in the bar, thats what fans do!:confused:
Its not just an irish thing. When Chelsea came to town I met two fans from basel who went to the game supporting the English team over their home team!

The point was about mocking fans in Ireland in general,do you think mocking people who have pretty much no interest in our league for not going to games suddenly makes them want to change what they are doing and attend games with the same fans that are mocking them?Particularly when they are in the majority.

The very fact that the fans in Basel were mocked would suggest that they are in the minority, unlike here so that's not really relevant.

[placid casual]

I was at the game on Wednesday, and the general feeling afterwards was one of feeling rather grubby to be honest.

Yes, it was good business by the Rovers board to get the game organised in the first place and the club made good money, but all the hoops i spoke to on Saturday found the whole experience a rather frustrating one as the liverpool consumers around us were without exceptions utterly clueless about what happens at a "loive" game.

on the subject mentioned by sadlier - the Only way to attract new fans to the league is through success,and then continued success.
irish people are sheep and will follow the first successfull shepard ( karl !)they see.

[KK77]

A really clever fella Keely.

[Straightstory]

I think he makes some very constructive points, and he did get the name of the league right at least. :)



It's simply all their fault... Isn't that kind of convenient? People are free to be interested in different things, so no point blaming others if they don't want to associate with the league. It's a matter of those already involved (including the FAI) accepting responsibility and taking ownership. If the supposed laziness and lack of imagination of the Irish public truly concerns you, try to do something to captivate their interest. Convince them its worth their investment. Shirking responsibility and playing the victim card also happen to be child-like. As Sadlier highlights, it's unfortunate that even when clubs did have more money rolling around, rather than putting it towards long-term investment and sustainable development, short-sightedness saw them throw it at players in the form of higher wages.

What does the 'FAI accepting ownership and taking responsibility' mean in practical terms? How would 'long-term investment and sustainable development' translate into crowds of ten thousand people at LOI games? All very vague, I'm afraid. Look- it's as clear as day: the reason people don't support the League of Ireland is lack of imagination and a child-like outlook:'I support Man United because they're big and successful and lots of other people do too'. I used to support Leeds United for those very reasons - but that's when I was a child.
I don't think anything can be done about all this, by the way. There is no solution, barring a complete change in mindset - and that's not going to happen.

[Mr A]

What does the 'FAI accepting ownership and taking responsibility' mean in practical terms?

Let's start off with a plan. A strategic approach to the next five years for the league. Set down where we're at, what can be improved and how each element involved must act to get there.


How would 'long-term investment and sustainable development' translate into crowds of ten thousand people at LOI games?

10000 people at games is currently unrealistic- there isn't even a ground that holds that currently. But say an average increase in crowds of 50% over 5 years (or whatever figure, this is just an example)- that would make a difference. How do we get there? Well we sure as feck won't without a plan. Perhaps as the FAI's financial position improves there will be more money available to help clubs along. But it all needs to be worked out properly.


Look- it's as clear as day: the reason people don't support the League of Ireland is lack of imagination and a child-like outlook:'I support Man United because they're big and successful and lots of other people do too'. I used to support Leeds United for those very reasons - but that's when I was a child.
I don't think anything can be done about all this, by the way. There is no solution, barring a complete change in mindset - and that's not going to happen.

People do whatever they feel like doing. They don't owe us anything. We may not like their choices but they're their choices to make. The league/ clubs need to find a way to get the message across that they offer something that the premiership or SPL cannot- community, belonging, an attachment to place, atmosphere and involvement, asterisks, Roddy fecking Collins. Whatever- we DO have strengths as well as weaknesses and progress can be made. But without some leadership and planning within the league and within the FAI in general we're going to stagnate as a league.

[disgruntled]

If 42.000 people want to give money to a LOI club for watching some clubs reserves then I have no problem with that.
I know I would prefer if it was my own club but if its money to the LOI then fair enough.
Personally I don't give a rat's who they support.
Maybe they're all relatives of this clown :confused:

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb432/TommyNoBobs/hypocrite.jpg

[dong]

Is there anything to be said for another mass?

[Dodge]

My say;

https://storify.com/seidodge/my-moan-about-loi-fans-v-bartoolers/

[Strongbow10]

Ireland is a country with very few genuine hardcore supporters. Fair enough, there are big numbers who scour the net for Liverpool and Man Utd transfer news on a daily basis 365 days of the year, quantifying this as living and breathing the club from the comfort of their sofa, but they are missing out on a key component of the experience of being a fan.

There are many Liverpool/Man Utd fans or indeed fans of other UK clubs who travel over week in week out and this is admirable indeed, they are in attendance come rain or shine.

Pardon me if I sound like i'm on my high horse when saying all of this but I stand by it when I say it, we as a culture are consumers in the absolute extreme when it comes to sport. Loyalty, reaction to set backs, Long term vision (all paramount qualities of a "SUPPORTER") simply are not part of your average Irish fans make up.

I won't even mention the LOI for fear of opening a can of worms, you only need to look at our own international side. "best fans in the world" when theres an international tournament to go away and drink at. The vast majority of whom wont go and watch them in the aviva again because the outlook is bleak. This is the attitude of a consumer, not a supporter. And if you think this is ok, then you are accepting that its behaviour tantamount to switching over to a different tv show because the one you used to watch got a little boring.

Keeley wouldn't be the most articulate in fairness, but he wasn't far off the mark. The minority who speak up about this are passed off as being "bitter LOI fans".

Fair enough, undoubtedly i'll have it thrown at me- "who are you to tell me who i can and cannot support?"

All i'm saying is that theres a difference between being a fan who watches on TV and simply switches off and stops watching when its not to their liking, and a fan who experiences live football week in week out supporting his side (be it in Ireland or the UK) regardless of the results. And the fact that the former is the majority means that more often than not they see the rest as a bitter minority who stick their oar in and put them on a guilt trip when they are trying to enjoy the footy on their sofa.

I actually think it goes deeper though. The true test is if you had an Irish side in the EPL for example. Would Irish fans turn their back on them should they be relegated to the championship or if they were a relegation threatened outfit year in year out? You bet ya they would.

[bennocelt]

The point was about mocking fans in Ireland in general,do you think mocking people who have pretty much no interest in our league for not going to games suddenly makes them want to change what they are doing and attend games with the same fans that are mocking them?Particularly when they are in the majority.

The very fact that the fans in Basel were mocked would suggest that they are in the minority, unlike here so that's not really relevant.

I dont give a flying feck what they do, I go to games and thats good enough for me.
As mentioned by others, the irish fans are the worlds best event junkies.

[Macy]

Who actually sneers at barstoolers, to their face at least, in real life? Can't say I've ever really heard anyone getting stick - Sadlier probably just extrapolated from the internet and used it as a stick to beat LoI fans. Does he even know any LoI supporters? He's just another ex-pro who thought he'd waltz into the LoI and revolutionise it - a modern day Dunphy and Giles.

As LoI fan you really can't win though. If you say you wish that more fans would come rather than support British clubs, you're being bitter. If you have the attitude it's their loss, you get accused of wanting to keep it exclusive (even though the two positions aren't mutually exclusive).

I actually think the issue is much deeper than just the LoI. There's no tradition here of going to games in any sport week in week out, over a full season. The GAA is always pointed at, but the reality it's a handful of games a season for each county or club, less again that get really big crowds. The actual level of support over a season is, imo, comparable to LoI. Rugby is probably the nearest "rival" we have that goes over a full season, but look at how Munster crowds have dropped off now they're only quite good rather than very good, or compare Leinsters tickets sold to how many are actually in the RDS.

[wonder88]

Good piece by Strongbow10 and agree fully with Macy as regards Irish people going to games on regular basis. I like GAA and go to a lot of games as I come from a county who are reasonably strong in both codes, and also have good club sides. Yet the crowds at league games are not that much greater than the top LoI sides Shamrock R, Sligo and Cork, for the footballers, the hurlers do a bit better. A book came out recently; The Economics of the GAA I think its called, where someone deeply involved in Cork GAA stated that their league attendances are also on a par with the LoI.

I was at the football league finals in Croke Park a few weeks ago as a neutral, where the Dubs had 20-25k fans supporting them. But a few sitting behind me seemed unsure of the rules of the game, and also did not seem to know some of the names of the players who were playing for their team. This is not unique to Dublin I may say, but they attract the biggest number of bandwagon fans, and they only problem I have with it is when it makes it so difficult to get a ticket when your county gets to an All-Ireland final. I lived in England for a few years and I agree we simply don't have the same culture of going to games here in Ireland. Interesting observation here on what crowds would an English league team playing out of Dublin would get. My own immediate response would be that the Dublin Dons would go close to filling the 50k capacity stadium all season and that the backers were on to a winner. But thinking about it, what crowd would a team in a relegation battle, managed by an Italian and made up of mostly African and South American players, really attract?

[osarusan]

The point was about mocking fans in Ireland in general,do you think mocking people who have pretty much no interest in our league for not going to games suddenly makes them want to change what they are doing and attend games with the same fans that are mocking them?Particularly when they are in the majority.

Firstly, it's far more likely that a LOI fan will be mocked for being a LOI fan than anything else.

Secondly, in your situation above, the people being mocked already have 'pretty much no interest' in the league. Will mocking them make them suddenly want to go to games? Of course not. But, they're not going to go to games anyway. The argument that "I don't go to LOI games because of the attitude of LOI fans (even though I've never been anyway and never had any interest in the LOI)" is a weak excuse put forward, for the most part, by people who would never go to LOI anyway.

Don't get me wrong - I don't agree with mocking or otherwise abusing/criticising people for not being LOI fans, but both the prevalence and impact of the behaviour are hugely overstated.

[WoodquayBoy]

I don't agree with people giving off about the number of Rovers fans at the game - when Liverpool sent their reserves over here to play Galway United a few years ago, I purposely didn't go as I didn't want my money going towards an English club's match day fee. As for the Barstoolers v Us thing, I think the local juvenile clubs need to have packages presented to them - we did it many moons ago when McDonalds were our sponsors, the kids were given vouchers to go there after the game. Stuff like that - invite a juvenile club, try and sort out 'goodie bags' for the kids, and give Dad and Mum a ticket for next game. You need to catch the parents to build the support base of the future. Just a thought

[DannyInvincible]

What does the 'FAI accepting ownership and taking responsibility' mean in practical terms?

Dismiss it as vague all you like, but a change in psyche is the first and most important step to any progression from the current state, as in, "What can we, the interested, do about this rather than shifting the blame onto uninvolved others?" You can think about practicalities then.


How would 'long-term investment and sustainable development' translate into crowds of ten thousand people at LOI games?

I'm not the expert, but developing youth structures and modern stadia/infrastructure that look the part are all investments that will sustain longer-term progress. Of course, there's a short-term sacrifice to be made and the money has to come from somewhere - it's a great shame funding and public support is so hard to come by - but when there is money available, throwing more at players' wages and splashing out on transfers can only promise immediate success. What happens when that dries up?


Look- it's as clear as day: the reason people don't support the League of Ireland is lack of imagination and a child-like outlook:'I support Man United because they're big and successful and lots of other people do too'. I used to support Leeds United for those very reasons - but that's when I was a child.
I don't think anything can be done about all this, by the way. There is no solution, barring a complete change in mindset - and that's not going to happen.

C'mon, it's just too simple; "They're all just too stupid and have simply failed to see the light that we have."

And why be so fatalist? You have very little faith in people's ability to change their thought patterns. Perhaps it's rooted in your own unwillingness or seeming inability to change yours?

[Stuttgart88]

Ray Houghton's opinion

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/houghton-better-standards-can-lure-fans-to-domestic-game-269376.html

[legendz]

Let's start off with a plan. A strategic approach to the next five years for the league. Set down where we're at, what can be improved and how each element involved must act to get there.I'd agree with that 100%. The obvious area I'd focus on here is more clubs joining the league. There should be a plan/strategic approach for getting clubs/regions who were involved in the A Championship back involved in the underage leagues at the very least.
10000 people at games is currently unrealistic- there isn't even a ground that holds that currently. But say an average increase in crowds of 50% over 5 years (or whatever figure, this is just an example)- that would make a difference. How do we get there? Well we sure as feck won't without a plan. Perhaps as the FAI's financial position improves there will be more money available to help clubs along. But it all needs to be worked out properly.A lot of this has to come from clubs but the FAI could work more with LoI clubs with regards summer soccer camps and having LoI clubs more central to the development on the game in their area. There needs to be visibility of a clubs involvement in the local community.
People do whatever they feel like doing. They don't owe us anything. We may not like their choices but they're their choices to make. The league/ clubs need to find a way to get the message across that they offer something that the premiership or SPL cannot- community, belonging, an attachment to place, atmosphere and involvement, asterisks, Roddy fecking Collins. Whatever- we DO have strengths as well as weaknesses and progress can be made. But without some leadership and planning within the league and within the FAI in general we're going to stagnate as a league.There should at least be a goal and determination to improve from where we are. There isn't any positive noises coming from the FAI. When Delaney was interviewed about the B team joining the league and on any possibility of a new region joining the league, he wasn't making any comments on how clubs could build to league level. As CEO of the FAI, he should at least be making comments on the underage league and how it can be a platform for even new clubs/regions to get involved at a national level. The FAI need to create the environment, from there, the respective clubs have to have the drive etc. to do the rest.

[Nesta99]

Ray Houghton's opinion

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/houghton-better-standards-can-lure-fans-to-domestic-game-269376.html

Ray Houghton - the master of stating the obvious....improve the standard, improve the facilities, better attendances more money that'll fix LoI ... ffs.

[Macy]

Ray Houghton - the master of stating the obvious....improve the standard, improve the facilities, better attendances more money that'll fix LoI ... ffs.
It's also just lazy - how's the top class facilities working out for Limerick? Top class facilities, but not in too big a stadium etc. etc. There will always be some excuse.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Ray Houghton - the master of stating the obvious....improve the standard, improve the facilities, better attendances more money that'll fix LoI ... ffs.

In fairness, he was being interviewed as part of something else and that question just came up. I'm not sure how insightful he could have been in the 30 seconds, on the spot, he had to answer.

[Stuttgart88]

I think the phenomenon can be largely described by the concepts BIRGing and CORFing, although with subtle twists in the Irish context. These are not very adventurous sexual acts, they are terms coined by an American sociologist in the 70s, acronyms describing Basking in Reflected Glory and Cutting Off Reflected Failure.

We kind of know the concept as bandwagoning.

People attach themselves to projected success. It adds to their sense of collective self-esteem and they buy into all the branding etc that goes with it. Irish people attach themselves to English football because it's successful. Some go quite far and attach themselves very closely with English teams, whereas others are less fanatic about a team but are attached to the whole EPL thing and the Champs League etc. too. I also think provincial rugby captures this. Our teams compete with the best in Europe, and our national team is arguably the best in Europe on current form. County GAA engenders this too. Yet, AIL rugby gets paltry crowds as does National League GAA at times.

Most people look down on Irish football and cut it off from their minds. It offers no form of associated collective feelgood.

I think there is a strange Irish twist to the phenomenon though. The terms have to be seen in conjunction with our irrational need for external gratification. We loved it when Riverdance was lauded all over Europe, when Chris De Burgh was number one even though the song was drivel, when foreign heads of state from big countries patronise us. We even loved it when The Guardian ran an editorial in praise of last year's hurling final.

Some info here, a summary and then the original paper which I'm going to re-read now.

http://www.units.miamioh.edu/psybersite/fans/bc.shtml

(Does the last sentence in the above linked article describe the motivation to single out "barstoolers"?)

Original scholarly article:

http://www.bps.org.uk/system/files/images/cialdinietal1976.pdf

[Stuttgart88]

Dermot Keely thinks Caroline Wozniacki is a moron

http://www.thescore.ie/caroline-wozniacki-split-tweet-1478137-May2014/

[trevy]

I don't think facilities are a big issue and seem to be the latest trendy reason for the league not having bigger support. The RSC has a lovely stand only a few years old and there is only a handful of people in it for most games. Most of the fans are in the older stand which is still less than 20 years old and in good condition. Most grounds I've been to or seen on tv have decent facilities and they are a lot better than years ago.
Stuart Byrne was saying we should look at changing season back to what it was as there are too many other distractions in the summer. This year the World Cup is on so gates will be affected by live games on tv too so I think he has a fair point.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think facilities are a big issue and seem to be the latest trendy reason for the league not having bigger support. The RSC has a lovely stand only a few years old and there is only a handful of people in it for most games. Most of the fans are in the older stand which is still less than 20 years old and in good condition. Most grounds I've been to or seen on tv have decent facilities and they are a lot better than years ago.
Stuart Byrne was saying we should look at changing season back to what it was as there are too many other distractions in the summer. This year the World Cup is on so gates will be affected by live games on tv too so I think he has a fair point.
The summer break takes up most of the World Cup. I think there's only one fixture during the groups and one more during the knockouts when there are days off.

[Stuttgart88]

Would it be too much of a leap of the imagination to hope that the FAI might encourage Monkeano to take the senior squad out to Tallaght tonight to watch the derby match, and sign autographs for the kids?

It'd be a cheap but effective PR boost (to all parties) and I'm sure the squad are likely to go stir crazy cooped up in a hotel together for 3 weeks.

Separately, is the game on an Irish TV channel tonight?

[Macy]

Stuart Byrne was saying we should look at changing season back to what it was as there are too many other distractions in the summer. This year the World Cup is on so gates will be affected by live games on tv too so I think he has a fair point.
Not so sure about the World Cup specifically, but there are definitely more distractions in the summer imo. Within our family, between children and me and the missus, there's been something on every weekend since Easter, and that'll be the case to when the schools are back. This makes it very hard to get away for a match, and I can't see it getting better as they get older. If it's like that for somebody who'd be actively trying to get to a match, it certainly isn't going to help attract new or floating fans.

iirc this is also backed up by attendance figures, which are lowest during the summer months. I wouldn't propose changing back on a whim (2 wrongs might not make a right), but the assumptions of what our actual competition was when we had a winter season turned out to be bogus.

[Charlie Darwin]

Would it be too much of a leap of the imagination to hope that the FAI might encourage Monkeano to take the senior squad out to Tallaght tonight to watch the derby match, and sign autographs for the kids?

It'd be a cheap but effective PR boost (to all parties) and I'm sure the squad are likely to go stir crazy cooped up in a hotel together for 3 weeks.

Separately, is the game on an Irish TV channel tonight?
No games on telly. The Sligo and Pats matches have been moved though so might be shown live.

[DannyInvincible]

iirc this is also backed up by attendance figures, which are lowest during the summer months.

It's not as if the difference is a matter of thousands though. Attendances outside of the summer months, when there are alleged to be less distractions for the general population, are still a lot lower than we'd hope. The season during which a large chunk of games are played might be a factor that will influence attendances to a slight degree, but in terms of winning over the minds of the public, I'm not sure of its significance.

[Dodge]

No games on telly. The Sligo and Pats matches have been moved though so might be shown live.

They won't be. Sligo moved because of the ROI friendly, pats moved because of Kings of Leon (garda request)

[Macy]

It's not as if the difference is a matter of thousands though. Attendances outside of the summer months, when there are alleged to be less distractions for the general population, are still a lot lower than we'd hope. The season during which a large chunk of games are played might be a factor that will influence attendances to a slight degree, but in terms of winning over the minds of the public, I'm not sure of its significance.
I think it's a big enough difference. I'm not going to dig up the figures, as my caveat of any move back would be proper research - something that was definitely lacking when we switched from a winter season to a summer season.

Summer football has suited the diehards who'd rather watch games in a t-shirt than a big coat, hasn't increased attendances (anecdotally reduced them - hard to get proper figures from the winter seasons), we're lumbered with a mid season break (as it doesn't suit the players either), hamstrung the cross border competition, hasn't really helped the few clubs that qualify for europe, and further seperated the LoI from most of the other levels of Irish football. It was a balls of a decision.

[Nesta99]

It was a balls up because it was done without establishing how things were before change and how to evaluate after. It seemed to be a whimsical stab at a silver bullet solution to all LoI ills. When the season changed it should have also happened in conjunction with junior football (if it was possible to move that mountain). Not moving underage leagues affiliated to LoI clubs is just bizarre. The entire problem is rooted in a lack or credibility summer or winter, 10,12,16 team leagues. We, by our standards, have had a relatively trouble free period without the jokeshop player registration or lack of issues or clubs freaking out about money. Simply we will never have credibility as long as our governing body doesnt see us as credible. This will only happen if UEFA turn around one day and say that a league such as our own must see greater intervention from the FAI.

[DannyInvincible]

Richard Sadlier not a w*nker, after all: http://balls.ie/football/richie-sadlier-tells-brilliant-story-ireland-u20-1999-world-cup/ :p


Richie Sadlier was on Second Captains today and the former Ireland striker got to discussing his experience of how players keep themselves entertained during international tournaments.

Talking about playing for Ireland at the U20 World Cup in Nigeria in 1999, Sadlier said that once players had become bored of putting a golf ball into an empty Ribena bottle, some got a bit more risque with the entertainment.

Sadlier takes up the story:


There was one afternoon where there was seven of us in a bedroom. I’m not going to name any names and there was a suggestion by someone, I don’t know how to phrase this – ‘why don’t we have a competition where we pleasure ourselves and the fella who can complete the job first is the winner. So we all reacted the way you’re reacting now.

We all laughed and said well this fella is nuts. We were trying to work it out and he’s actually suggesting what we think he is.

Myself and another fella left, because it appeared this is actually going to happen. And it did, five lads competed with one another.

[nigel-harps1954]

The party police..pfft.