Northern Ireland 1-1 Republic of Ireland (WCQ - Windsor Park, 17th November 1993)

[DeLorean]

Sorry but I had two choices... create a pointless new thread or take an existing one way off topic.

Sunday is the 20 year anniversary of this game and although I remember it very well, I had a 12 years old's perception of what was going on. It was an eerie atmosphere even watching it on TV, so much hate. Was anybody on here at the match? Any stories?

I see that Jimmy Quinn scored his cracker in the 72nd minute and McLoughlin equalised four minutes later. I would have guessed fairly accurately for Mac's goal but it felt like we were behind for longer than four minutes. It really would have been horrendous to have got knocked out that night... instead it was our proudest qualification of them all. Finishing ahead of the European Champions (granted unlikely European Champions and only on goals scored) and being the only side from these two islands to have made it. Obviously the tournament being in the States added even more significance to us.

God bless you Alan McLoughlin and we can't forget a significant helping hand from our old pal.... Fernando Hierro*.


http://footballrepublic.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Alan-McLoughlin.jpg http://s3.thejournal.ie/media/2011/11/PA-77752-296x197.jpg


*Little did we realise he'd be doing his utmost to bail us out again nine years later! http://www.soccer-ireland.com/football-images/miscellany/ireland-spain-2002.jpg

[Stuttgart88]

Was it only 4 minutes? Felt like about 30! I remember being frozen with tension all day beforehand and just utterly elated afterwards. Denmark came so close to equalising in Seville in in jury time afterwards too,

[DeLorean]

Yeah that was the bit that I was really surprised about. I would have guessed at us equalising in the 78th minute and NI scoring around the hour. It was a game of really few chances if I remember correctly so it must have looked like curtains going behind with only 18mins left.

[rebelmusic]

I remember my whole family storming out of the room and everyone was utterly gutted. Then i convinced everyone to go back in just as McLoughlin scored the goal. What a feeling...it's almost funny how little anyone cared when Austria scored against us in the recent game - Nobody really cared on a larger scale.

[DeLorean]

Suppose we were pretty much out already but caring would be an gross understatement when Alaba scored in Dublin. My heart still hasn't made it's way fully back from my bladder.

[DannyInvincible]

This was the first campaign of which I have proper memories. And great memories they are.

Some footage of and commentary on the game from The Charlton Years documentary:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWWwzjB_5Lk

[Fixer82]

4 minutes??? Felt like about 4 hours

[osarusan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp9Bt18Rvv4

[Stuttgart88]

We went out to the airport last night. Great fun.

[Fergie's Son]

The tension preceding the match was unreal. Bad times in the North and "Billy's boys" didn't help matters. Was a good qualifying campaign tough we should of beaten Spain away.

[IsMiseSean]

I remember sliding across the living room floor celebrating. My knees were in bits from carpet burn for days...

[Junior]

Had only started travelling over to Dublin for games from the start of that campaign as an 18 year old. Three of us made the trip over for this game as well and watched it in the Working Mens club in Dublin - What a night, rolling around the drink soaked floor when a fellow Mancunian was to etch his name in to Irish footballing folklore. The wait on the FT whistle for the score from Spain/Denmark was the most agonising of them all....

[geysir]

This was before satellite. I listened to it on the radio, Radio Eireann on Medium Wave 567 kHz, the signal travelled at least 1500 km across the north atlantic on dry evenings/nights in the winter. I had to have the radio on the south side of the house beside a window.
That game that evening had a good signal, but I also had to replace the alternator on my car. The weather was cold. I came inside to get warm and was ready to go out again when NI scored, by the time I got back outside we had equalised. The commentator (I forget his name), the usual radio commentator, was right in the thick of a Billy Boy chorus line, which seemed to break out every 5 minutes in yet another rendition of the Billy Boys. Afair, Radio Eireann just ditched the regular menu of late evening dross (verbatim reports from the Seanad, etc) and went with the football story for most of the night.
I don't remember the wait for the result in Spain, maybe time translated differently or I had mentally switched off for a few minutes or Radio Eireann didn't follow the game blow by blow. But I got a phonecall from a family member that night who told me of how RTE flicked over to the game in Spain and the torture of those final minutes.

[SkStu]

How long have you been in Iceland, geysir? I thought it was only a ten(ish) years ago thing...

[DannyInvincible]

That's ten Icelandic years, which equates to about thirty Irish years. Time moves a lot slower in Iceland than it does elsewhere; for example, check out the hair on their midfielder, Ólafur Skúlason!

http://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/scaled/510x250/jun_12/gun__1340350468_skulason.jpg

[bennocelt]

Didnt the Spanish goalkeeper also pull of a brilliant save in injury time?
Like everyone here, I also felt the time between the goals was more, wow.

[geysir]

How long have you been in Iceland, geysir? I thought it was only a ten(ish) years ago thing...
Since the last 2 games of the Euro 88 campaign - a shotgun wedding.

It's easier to do a timeline when you use as reference the qual campaigns, the Finals and other assorted games that have significance.

[Eirambler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Os8ULnMDI

This video includes the save by the replacement Spanish keeper that was as important to us as McLoughlin's goal - it was an incredible stop.

Amazing that there were so many memorable games happening on the same night, Wales near miss against Romania and the seven second San Marino goal in Graham Taylor's last match were also on the same evening. Only six qualifying groups back then.

[DannyInvincible]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Os8ULnMDI

This video includes the save by the replacement Spanish keeper that was as important to us as McLoughlin's goal - it was an incredible stop.

Cañizares always impressed me as a keeper. He was very agile, even in later years. Schmeichel, on the other hand, was all over the place for Hierro's goal.

[SkStu]

Cañizares always impressed me as a keeper. He was very agile, even in later years. Schmeichel, on the other hand, was all over the place for Hierro's goal.

There was a lovely block by a spaniard on Schmeichel for Hierros goal. :)

Geysir - had you pegged as a younger grinch for some reason...

[geysir]

Anybody who carries the scars of the Giles era, has to be of a certain vintage.

[DannyInvincible]

Was just having a search for some more photos from the night and came across this one:

https://ssl.utvinternet.com/sportingvisions/imgdir/110111368/alan-mcloughlin.jpg

Under the old offside rule, was Keane in an offside position there?

There were two NI players across the other side of the field possibly playing him on-side, but the position of his lurking shadow in the bottom-left corner of the frame below would suggest it was very tight:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/mclaugh_zpsf0d57ca3.png

Thank God that was missed, bloody hell! Maybe it was karma for the ref and linesman having missed Van Basten in an offside position when Koeman misfired his shot towards Kieft's head for Holland's goal against us at Euro '88. My youth would have been a bleaker one without the memories of USA '94 as I can't even recall Italia '90. :(

[geysir]

Under the old offside rule, was Keane in an offside position there?

There were two NI players across the other side of the field possibly playing him on-side, but the position of his lurking shadow in the bottom-left corner of the frame below would suggest it was very tight:


Bonnie posted a link to an article on another thread, in true Fly fashion (the old Fly fashion), he was too lazy to tag it properly or give it a description. The article related to the offside rule of law.
Why the offside law is genius (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2010/apr/13/the-question-why-is-offside-law-genius)

Italia 90

It was the sterility of Italia 90, as with so many rule changes, that provided the impetus. First a player level with the second-last defender was deemed to be onside, whereas previously he had had to be behind. Then in 1995 came a subtle change to the wording of the law so that a player was deemed to be active if he was "gaining an advantage by being in that position" rather than, as previously, if he was "seeking to gain an advantage".

So I guess from that, a player could have been in an offside position but as long as he wasn't seeking an advantage, he could be deemed inactive.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Anybody who carries the scars of the Giles era, has to be of a certain vintage.

Surely you're not 60...
:rolleyes:

[OwlsFan]

Funny you should post this thread as before the Latvia game I was out for our usual pre-match prandials with my football mates, no less than three of whom were in Windsor Park that night and we were discussing the game. One of the three was also at the Iran play-off game. No many can beat that I'd say. They had to jump to their feet when Norn Iron scored and sit on their hands when we equalised. They drove up in a Dublin registered car which was stopped three times and examined to see whether it was carrying a bomb!! Finding a parking spot was difficult but the RUC directed them to a relatively safe locality. Couldn't celebrate until they crossed the border and they then did a Dell Boy and Rodney when they found out they were millionaires.

Truly one of the great nights.

[Crosby87]

Will there ever be another great night to be an Irish football fan?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Of course. Why not?

And great story OF;pal of mine who's a pure Dub was in there and said it wasn't a pleasant evening.

Was there for the 4-0 which was not exactly a barrel of laughs.
Remember congratulating the one fan from I saw from the North with a green-and-white scarf;The rest were red-white-and-blue to a man...
That said, was wearing an orange hat for the '93 game watching the TV, one that said 'Hup Holland' ​on...

[Charlie Darwin]

Under the old offside rule, was Keane in an offside position there?

There were two NI players across the other side of the field possibly playing him on-side, but the position of his lurking shadow in the bottom-left corner of the frame below would suggest it was very tight:

Thank God that was missed, bloody hell! Maybe it was karma for the ref and linesman having missed Van Basten in an offside position when Koeman misfired his shot towards Kieft's head for Holland's goal against us at Euro '88. My youth would have been a bleaker one without the memories of USA '94 as I can't even recall Italia '90. :(
It looks to me like he's still a yard behind the offside line, but nevertheless I don't think he'd have been deemed 'active' for the reason geysir cited. The exception that proves the rule (although it occurred after the shift in emphasis in 1995) also involves Roy Keane, aptly. In the original 1999 FA Cup semi-final between Arsenal and Manchester United (the replay would become an all-time classic famous for Ryan Giggs' wonder goal) when Roy Keane had a goal disallowed because he was in an offside position on the opposite side of the pitch as Ryan Giggs knocked the ball past his man on the wing, and the debate that broke out afterwards helped clarify a lot of what's meant by 'gaining an advantage).

For some reason, another isolated example that sticks in my mind is also from the FA Cup in the mid-nineties, when Wimbledon were in the process of beating some lower-league outfit like Brentford, and a striker (possibly Robbie Earle or Jason Euell) was watching his shot roll into the net only when Andy Clarke, having been in an offside position, ran up and booted it in to make sure, the goal being promptly disallowed to his strike partner's chagrin.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm confused Ted. The old "not interfering with play" interpretation would have applied to Keane in 93, and the goal would still have stood. The difference now is that you can feasibly be "interfering with play" but not be active.

My favourite example of interfering with play, as an ex-goalie and Arsenal fan! - is that famous Nayim from the halfway line goal. There was a centre forward offside in a central position who Seaman had half an eye on, taking him off his line. He wasn't active in today's rule but I am 99pc sure that Seaman was lobbed because he was also looking to sweep any through ball to the offside player. He was further forward than he would jave been if the forward wasn't offside. In the old rules that should have been "interfering with play" in the strictest sense:)

[geysir]

Surely you're not 60...
:rolleyes:
No
Did you wait until you were over 20 before you avidly followed the 'fortunes' of the Ireland team?
I can't remember exactly which was my first memory of following the Intl team, I was just born into it :)
But Giles's era was my first full campaign.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You've lost me with that second line. Though the answer is No.

The rest, fair enough...

[geysir]

You've lost me with that second line. Though the answer is No.

The rest, fair enough...
You lost yourself.
You deduced I was 60 because I said I have the scars from the Giles era, you do realise the Giles era started 1974?
If I was 60 then I would have been 19 or 20. Therefore I asked. did you wait until you were 20 before you avidly followed the Irish team.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Actually it was a joke!
:rolleyes:

Irony and all that. No matter.

[DannyInvincible]

Bonnie posted a link to an article on another thread, in true Fly fashion (the old Fly fashion), he was too lazy to tag it properly or give it a description. The article related to the offside rule of law.
Why the offside law is genius (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2010/apr/13/the-question-why-is-offside-law-genius)

Italia 90

It was the sterility of Italia 90, as with so many rule changes, that provided the impetus. First a player level with the second-last defender was deemed to be onside, whereas previously he had had to be behind. Then in 1995 came a subtle change to the wording of the law so that a player was deemed to be active if he was "gaining an advantage by being in that position" rather than, as previously, if he was "seeking to gain an advantage".

So I guess from that, a player could have been in an offside position but as long as he wasn't seeking an advantage, he could be deemed inactive.

Sorry, yeah, my confusion. The goal stands. :)

[SkStu]

Irony and all that. No matter.

Like rain on your wedding day.

[DannyInvincible]

This, an extract from Miguel Delaney's From Stuttgart to Saipan, is a wonderful read...

'Alan McLoughlin on the goal that sealed Ireland’s World Cup place, 20 years ago today': http://thescore.thejournal.ie/windsor-park-ireland-the-north-1993-1178650-Nov2013/


FROM A POSITION where qualification had looked a procession, Ireland went into the final game of the USA ’94 group needing to beat Northern Ireland or draw and hope one of either Spain or Denmark came out on top in their showdown in Seville.

http://s2.thejournal.ie/media/2013/11/alan-mcloughlin-republic-of-ireland-v-northern-ireland-17111993-390x285.jpg

If that wasn’t enough tension, events off the field actually amplified it to unbearable levels rather than render it irrelevant. Three weeks before the game, the Shankill Road bombing killed 10 civilians as well as the IRA member who prematurely set off the bomb. Two weeks before, UFF paramilitaries burst into the Rising Star bar in Derry and shouted ‘trick or treat’ before shooting eight people dead.

In Roy Keane’s autobiography, he claims some of the English-born players — including Alan McLoughlin — needed some of the background explained. McLoughlin refutes this.

“I was very conscious of it. Both my parents are Irish. I lived in Manchester until I was 19. I completely knew the situation and was no more detached from it than someone living in the South of Ireland. Nothing needed to be explained to me. But in saying that, it hits you like a ton of bricks when you’re in the middle of it. The day before we played, we trained on the pitch and some local lads ran up to the fence as we arrived. They put their hands up pretending to shoot us, like with their fingers, and that hit home.

“Jack insisted on the same routine though. I don’t think security were particularly enamoured with us but we insisted on going for a walk on the golf course. There was the threat of a bomb in the hotel so there were tense times. We had armoured personnel, people carrying weapons on the buses dressed up as players. It was difficult and there was the little niggle in the back of your head, ‘is someone going to do something stupid?’”

http://s3.thejournal.ie/media/2013/11/managers-jack-charlton-and-billy-bingham-630x484.jpg

Charlton as ever had his own choice of words.

“‘Let’s get ****ing in, ****ing out, get the result and get ****ing home.’

“No team-talk needed really. A quick resumé on Northern Ireland, quick thing on set-piece, but impose yourselves on them. That was it.”

Until they got out there. Then came the catcalls and a whole lot worse. Much of it was saved for the unusually placed Belfast native Alan Kernaghan like ‘you ****ing English *******, I hope your mother dies of cancer’. A mere 9,900 Northern Ireland supporters — dotted by 100 undeterred Republic fans — created a spiked wall of noise. And one that seemed to close in on those on the sidelines.

“The safest place was on the pitch,” says McLoughlin. “The bench was literally a bench. I could hear it and feel it right behind me. You didn’t dare look around and make eye contact. The venom in their eyes shocked me. I remember thinking ‘this isn’t natural’. You just get on with it and pray at some stage you get onto the pitch. That was the safest place to be, you could drown out all the noise.”

Undoubtedly subdued by both the sound and Northern Ireland’s driven display, Ireland struggled to do as ordered and impose themselves. On the sideline, however, Charlton was stuck on the specifics. Houghton most of all. Any time the star of Stuttgart squandered another ball or chance, Charlton seemed to scream to no-one in particular, ‘Look at him!’ Look at ****ing Raymond. Off, get him off. Get him ****ing off!’

McLoughlin was to get onto the pitch. Just as he came on though so many jeers turned to spiteful cheers as Jimmy Quinn leapt to score a flying volley. America looked a lot further away across the Atlantic.

Again though, it’s odd what goes professional’s minds in such extreme surroundings.

‘I hadn’t scored for Ireland at this stage and I was getting mighty ****ed with this. I’d hit the bar once or twice and came close to scoring but badly wanted to.”

So did Ireland, but nothing was happening. “Jack said, ‘get on, influence the game, get forward, see if you can mix it up and keep getting in the box and create something.’”

Eventually he did. With 14 minutes to go, Eddie McGoldrick was hauled down on the right. Irwin chipped the free-kick in only for Gerry Taggart to clear… but not far enough.

“All I remember is the free-kick coming into the box. Big Quinny did me a right favour. He blocked Iain Dowie. And I was a good finisher — 106 goals in my career saw I was — and I practised and practised. I knew what I did to get the ball down quickly from chest to volley was done perfectly. Then it was a matter of relaxing and hitting it as best I could. I had to hit it with my left because I was being closed down on my right. To be fair, that switch takes confidence in itself. And as soon as it left my foot I knew Tommy Wright had absolutely no chance. It was always going away from him. And it was gone in a flash.”

Westward ho once more. Not that such a thought even entered McLoughlin’s mind at that moment.

“The reaction from me wasn’t really, ‘Oh I’m going to get us to the World Cup’. It was ‘thank **** I’ve scored at last.’ And that was it. That was the emotion. Because it had been playing on my mind. I was a goalscorer, had one in every five games in my career . And I’d gone over three years without scoring was getting mighty ****ed off. The implications of that goal only sank in as the game dragged on.”

Dragged on is probably the wrong phrase because McLoughlin admits it was a blur.

“As I said, there are only a few things about it all I remember. And the next was the final whistle, people jumping on you, but then that agonising wait to see if we’d got the right result.”

At the same time Ireland were prematurely punching the air, Denmark were laying siege to the Spanish goal as they looked for the draw that would have put both sides in Seville through… but, unaware of events in the North, neither could take the chance. After 10 minutes, early Danish pressure saw Andoni Zubizaretta inexplicably roll the ball to Barcelona team-mate Michael Laudrup just yards in front of him. Having forced himself into a foul, Zubizaretta was off and 23-year-old Santiago Canizares was on for his international debut.

For Sofia ’87 read ‘Seville ’93 as Ireland’s hopes again rested on an international novice. Canizares hadn’t even time to warm up but didn’t have to wait long to feel the heat. He produced save after unlikely save. And on the hour, something even more improbably happened. Peter Schmeichel flapped at a corner to allow Fernando Hierro an open goal. It would be enough for Ireland… so long as Canizares stayed strong.

He did but was still fortunate a number of Danish players didn’t — Claus Christiansen missed from six yards and Kim Vilfort from three.

“People were saying we were through,” says McLoughlin. “Then someone else said Denmark had equalised but, when it happened, it was amazing.”

Afterwards, McLoughlin told Ger Canning, “That was for my wife and little girl Abby.”

http://s3.thejournal.ie/media/2013/11/roy-keane-celebrates-with-alan-mcloughlin-after-the-game-630x400.jpg

Some of the Northern players would be similarly grounded.

“A few shook your hand, said ‘well done, hope you have a great tournament.’ Some just didn’t want to know which is understandable. The first thing Jack said was, ‘Right, let’s get the **** out of here, let’s get back to Dublin and celebrate.’

“We landed in Dublin and there were thousands at the airport. It was one o’clock in the morning and we went straight out on the ****. I hadn’t slept but I still had to get back to Portsmouth for training the next morning. I ended up getting a taxi to the airport and then straight to the training ground. Jim Smith took one look at me and said if I didn’t perform on Saturday I wouldn’t be going to Ireland again so I had to get to bed fairly sharpish. The wife wasn’t happy either but I needed to put in the performance on the Saturday because they paid the wages. I think I did okay!”
Initially it looked like the goal was going to transform McLoughlin’s life and career. Charlton spoke afterwards of how he had ‘justified his existence’. Every media outlet in the country wanted him. So did the American embassy. McLoughlin and his wife were invited to Ballsbridge for the World Cup draw. But, having driven Ireland to America, McLoughlin frustratingly returned to a role as passenger once there.

“It was a slight disappointment. Obviously Italia ’90 was a shock so anything was a bonus.”

With the yearning to play, the post-career pressures and the grafting — as he puts it — does McLoughlin have any regrets himself?

“Well watching that goal in Windsor Park always helps clear my head. Funnily enough, I don’t even have it on tape. I watched it recently on YouTube. And I’m very lucky to be in a select group of players — Ray twice, Dave O’Leary, Packie, Jason McAteer for the goal against Holland — that will always be remembered for something iconic. I never reached the dizzy heights of, say, John Sheridan. But I’m always remembered for scoring that goal. And it was a great goal. I couldn’t have hit it any better. You’re remembered for iconic moments and I’m thankful I’ve managed to pull one out of the bag.

“It was worth the ride.”

[DannyInvincible]

Just watching the Spain-Denmark highlights again; seriously though, what on earth was Zubizarreta trying to do? Had he shaken on a pact with his Barcelona team-mate, Michael Laudrup, to see both sides qualify or something?...

I had never been aware just how close Wales had come to World Cup qualification that night either until I read this BBC nostalgia piece yesterday evening: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24962509

What was more shocking was learning that a Wales fan actually died in the stadium after the final whistle due to being hit by a stray rocket flare (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24931711). How have I never been aware of that until now? Surely it was massive news at the time?

[pineapple stu]

Vaguely remember about that Wales fan alright.

Funny that, in a thread about Alan McLoughlin and offside but not interfering, that McLoughlin being offside for Sheedy's equaliser in Italia 90 hasn't come up yet. :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Was he?

[geysir]

Sorry, yeah, my confusion. The goal stands. :)
You don't think we need a Tricky C investigation into the matter, just to be doubly sure?
He's probably too busy anyway with this being the 50th anniv of the grassy knoll affair.

[Crosby87]

Is anyone betting on Sweden today?

[Sheridan]

Jimmy Quinn's goal is still one of my all-time faves. Lovely set-up, both feet off the ground, perfect dipping volley - GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

[DeLorean]

Short TG4 documentary on this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgT7IJyqTUY

[DeLorean]

The match in full:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3eQvNfBSI8

[EalingGreen]

Feck it, the idea we'd have walked off the pitch in 93 as Billy Bingham was winding up sectarian chanting was never remotely considered.An absolute lie.

As someone who was there that night, I can tell you that the incident was as follows. The dressing rooms at Windsor were in the corner, so that when he returned to the bench after half-time, he had to walk along the touchline.

As he did so, the crowd were singing "One Team in Ireland", so he smiled and started waving an arm on his way to his seat.

Not that mere facts ever stopped the bigots from making up lies, or the gullible idiots from repeating them.

Or as they said in 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance': “When the legend becomes fact, print the legend"

P.S. I make absolutely no apology for challenging this disgraceful slur against a decent man who is unable to defend himself, so if anyone is rolling their eyes and complaining "He's off on one again", then they should know that unless PS apologises and withdraws, the fault lies entirely with him.

[EalingGreen]

You'd have to be pretty hard up to lie in the wings and wait almost forever to emerge onto an obscure thread on a mildly populated football website to be grievously offended by an erroneous comment about some event that happened 30 years ago? Then throw down your glove to Stu's feet and challenge him to a duel at dawn over the details of that night in time when the NI fans could sing about the Billy Boys being up to their knees in fenian blood with repeated gusto.Good grief, it was Stu who dragged this up from 30 years ago, not me!

While if I posted something scurrilous and nasty about Jack Charlton, say, I'd expect to have to back it up, and when unable to, withdraw it and apologise.

Double standards all round.

[CraftyToePoke]

Good grief, it was Stu who dragged this up from 30 years ago, not me!

While if I posted something scurrilous and nasty about Jack Charlton, say, I'd expect to have to back it up, and when unable to, withdraw it and apologise.

Double standards all round.

Interestingly, a national broadcaster went with Stus version after the match last night, the RTE doc about that night was not comfortable viewing for the Bingham revisionists.
The lesser aspects of his character & how he disgraced himself under the spotlight.

[EalingGreen]

Interestingly, a national broadcaster went with Stus version after the match last night, the RTE doc about that night was not comfortable viewing for the Bingham revisionists.
The lesser aspects of his character & how he disgraced himself under the spotlight.Really? Did it show footage of "Billy Bingham ... winding up sectarian chanting" [sic], as Stu alleged?

For if you look at the actual match footage, he was clearly seen encouraging the crowd when they were singing "One Team in Ireland":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3eQvNfBSI8

See at 1:16:40

Meanwhile, if you watch the rest of that Eirsport footage of the game, the real "revisionism" actually comes from Irish Republicans, who exagerrated or even made up claims about the events of that evening. For much of that they relied on a play written nearly a year after the event by Marie Jones, who at that stage had never been to a football match in her life. ("I had read about the game in the papers", she was later to admit.) You can guess the authenticity of this work by the fact that its hero was a Prod NI fan who was so offended by what he heard at the game that he turned into an ROI fan. Yeah, really, like that sort of thing happens all the time with football... :rolleyes:

Anyhow, this gave rise to claims about eg singing of The Billy Boys etc. Yet if you watch the actual game (above), where the soundtrack is clear, that song was not sung once!

Now it is true that there were some occasional, rather desultory choruses of The Sash from a section of the crowd, which I don't defend or deny. But other than that, plus some nasty booing of a couple of individuals (Phelan, Kernaghan), there was nothing else objectionable about any of the chants or songs from the NI support throughout the entire game.

While if the game was such a "Welcome to Hell" hatefest, Istanbul-style, how come the small bunch of ROI fans in attendance felt sufficiently emboldened to start singing "Here We Go, Here We Go" in the closing minutes, as noted by George Hamilton (see video 1:29:30)? Indeed one of those fans was Gary Spain, late of this parish, who happily admitted that it was nowhere nearly so bad as alleged after the event by people who weren't even at the game!

But hey, what do I know? I mean, I was only there, and have viewed the actual TV footage of the game in its entirety. How does that compare to the forensic, documentary analysis of Pineapple Stu, who read about it on the internet? :rolleyes:

[CraftyToePoke]

Really?

It really did indeed, indeed it did. Really.
Inconveniently for your version, it also featured several people who like yourself, were there that night. Or at least you claim to have been, these people were.

You mention Kernaghan who it might be argued had it coming but your airbrushing glossed over the racial targeting of Phelan and McGrath throughout, which again RTE gave focus to last night.

You seem to spend an unusual amount of time on here, dragging threads off topic, but each to their own, or not, as the case may be. As we have you here, and you claim to be close to the pulse of all things relating to that evening, Alan McDonald ( God rest him and a pity there aren't more of his kind among his kind ) came to our dressing room afterwards to wish us well in representing Ireland and the people of Ireland at the WC as his team had done in the 80s. Did you ever hear he had to go against the wishes of Bingham to do so ? Because I heard that, but I wouldn't be as close to it as you are, thankfully.

[pineapple stu]

You mention Kernaghan who it might be argued had it coming but your airbrushing glossed over the racial targeting of Phelan and McGrath throughout, which again RTE gave focus to last night.
FWIW, I have EG on ignore since he tried arguing Dublin wasn't the capital of Ireland, but as you mention Kernaghan, I don't think it's fair to say he had it coming. He didn't turn down the North (which I presume is what you're referencing); they wouldn't select him because, though eligible, he wasn't born there and didn't have a parent from there. He qualified on the basis of a grandparent and (I presume) residence, having lived in the North from the ages of 4 to (I think) 16, but that wasn't good enough for them. So we offered him a cap, and he was happy to come on board.