Northern Ireland 1-1 Republic of Ireland (WCQ - Windsor Park, 17th November 1993)

[CraftyToePoke]

Jeez, you see that EG ?
Here you are writing essays and you don't even exist in Pineapplers orbit.
Its a tough aul station where the train don't stop, as the saying goes.

[SkStu]

McDonald was a scumbag too. Made the lives of Gallens and the other young Irish at QPR back then miserable by a lot of accounts. Club captain too.

That display of dignity in Windsor Park must have been an aberration.

[tetsujin1979]

Interesting that EG chose to leave out Bingham's labelling of players born in England as "mercenaries" in the build up to the game. Or quotes like this
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/a-night-in-november-remembering-most-sectarian-stained-international-ever-at-windsor-as-northern-ireland-faced-republic/a955244964.html

Republic defender Alan Kernaghan — the Yorkshire-born, Bangor-raised Protestant, former Northern Ireland schoolboy international (and future Glens manager) — heard his mother being described as “the Pope’s whore.

Wise words… so why was Bingy, of all people, inciting the crowd with animated gestures during the warm-up — something he’d repeat at half time?

Never, in my experience, had the ‘Billy Boys’ been delivered with such gusto than in the moments following Quinn’s marvellous 72nd minute effort, two and a half hours short of his 34th birthday.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/1111/1009831-one-night-in-windsor-park-25-years-on/

Billy Bingham was trying to rouse the crowd by waving his arms and getting them to make the atmosphere even more hostile. It was probably the most volatile atmosphere we've ever experienced at a sports event in this island.

https://thesetpieces.com/latest-posts/northern-ireland-vs-republic-of-ireland-november-1993-the-most-politically-charged-game-in-living-memory/

God Save The Queen was played by a brass band and the atmosphere was febrile. The first half was poor, but the noise level never wavered, strains of the Billy Boys – “We’re up to our knees in Fenian blood, surrender or you’ll die” – echoing through the air. As the second half started, news filtered through from Seville that Spain had taken the lead against Denmark and, as it stood, the Republic were going to the World Cup.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/twenty-five-years-on-how-infamous-night-in-november-showdown-was-a-microcosm-of-the-toxicity-of-the-time/37512338.html

As sectarian abuse rained down from the stands, McGrath and team-mate Terry Phelan suffered the added indignity of racial taunts.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/why-billy-bingham-had-scores-to-settle-with-jack-charlton-and-notorious-night-in-november-was-his-last-chance/39374281.html

The man who'd led Northern Ireland to two World Cups then doubled down on his vitriol during the match, his animated touchline gesticulations inciting a 10,500 home-fans-only capacity crowd that hardly required further inducement, judging by the cacophony of vile, feral abuse already enveloping this seething cauldron of hatred.

[pineapple stu]

Am I right in thinking GSTQ wasn't played in Lansdowne? So it was effectively reciprocal agreement not to play either away anthem in those games, leading up Á na bhF not being played up there?

[Buckett]

Correct. No anthem or national flag for the away team in both games

[EalingGreen]

It really did indeed, indeed it did. Really.
Inconveniently for your version, it also featured several people who like yourself, were there that night. Or at least you claim to have been, these people were.
Did it claim that Bingham wound the crowd up to sectarian singing i.e. Stu's original allegation, with which I took issue?

And what do you mean by my "claiming" to have been there? Don't make me hoke in the attic, search out my programme and ticket stub and post it on here.


You mention Kernaghan who it might be argued had it coming but your airbrushing glossed over the racial targeting of Phelan and McGrath throughout, which again RTE gave focus to last night.
"Airbrushing"? What part of "nasty" don't you understand?


You seem to spend an unusual amount of time on here, dragging threads off topic, but each to their own, or not, as the case may be.Once again, it was Stu who dragged up a game from 31 years ago, not me. And I have stuck rigidly to his nasty slur about Bingham.
To which I note that neither he nor anyone else has come up with evidence for this lie - unlike the clear counter evidence I provided from the Eir Sports video of the game.



As we have you here, and you claim to be close to the pulse of all things relating to that evening, Alan McDonald ( God rest him and a pity there aren't more of his kind among his kind ) came to our dressing room afterwards to wish us well in representing Ireland and the people of Ireland at the WC as his team had done in the 80s. Did you ever hear he had to go against the wishes of Bingham to do so ? Because I heard that, but I wouldn't be as close to it as you are, thankfully.Yes, I was aware of Big Mac's noble gesture.

And as for Bingham not wanting him to do so (source?), this was a special night for him - his last as manager, after all - tensions were running high throughout and he and Charlton* had been having run-in's before and during the match. But telling McDonald to "not go near them" is NOT the same as stirring up sectarian singing, as Stu has claimed, and which has been my (as yet unanswered) point throughout.


* - Iirc, Big Jack also had the grace to admit afterwards that he had gone a bit overboard with some of his comments: “At a post-match press conference, Charlton apologised for as yet unreported remarks to Billy Bingham at the end of the game.” - Irish News

[EalingGreen]

Jeez, you see that EG ?
Here you are writing essays and you don't even exist in Pineapplers orbit.
Its a tough aul station where the train don't stop, as the saying goes.Are you telling me that Stu isn't aware that I pulled him up on his slur? I mean, does he have everyone else on ignore too?

Or might it just be convenient for him to "ignore" me, so as to excuse him from having to come up with something to back up his allegation?

[EalingGreen]

McDonald was a scumbag too. Made the lives of Gallens and the other young Irish at QPR back then miserable by a lot of accounts. Club captain too. "By a lot of [unnamed] accounts" - here we go again, impugning someone who's not alive to speak for himself. Or sue.


That display of dignity in Windsor Park must have been an aberration.So let me get this straight. After years of being a sectarian "scumbag", McDonald suddenly acts completely out of character, on a night like that, and (allegedly) against the orders of his manager? Really?

Having some friends who are QPR fans, I can tell you that Big Mac was an absolute legend at QPR, adored by one and all. Just read this tribute to the big man on this fans' website:
https://www.indyrs.co.uk/2012/12/recollections-of-alan-mcdonald-from-his-friends-and-team-mates/

Note eg what Sharon Smith said about him, she being a big ROI fan working at QPR, who at the time of writing, had moved to Ireland and was working for the Irish PFA:
“When I heard that Alan had passed away I felt that I’d lost a friend. I know he’s a hero to QPR fans, but he was always my mate Macca."

Or what Stephen Lynch had to say:
"He was very supportive to the young players, especially us young Irish lads, and he was forever giving us boots and gear."

And as for the Gallens, if he was so nasty to them, why did Kevin and Steve Gallen voluntarily fly over to Belfast to play in Alan's tribute match, with a number of Irish QPR fans also driving up from the Republic to be there?
https://www.indyrs.co.uk/2012/11/alan-mcdonald-tribute-game-at-seaview-belfast-10th-september-2012/

So I can state with no fear of contradiction that you are talking absolute sh1te - and a particularly nasty-smelling type at that. :poo:

You really ought to be ashamed, but I somehow doubt that someone who'd make up stuff like you just have would even understand the concept, never mind feel it.

[CraftyToePoke]

Are you telling me that Stu isn't aware that I pulled him up on his slur? I mean, does he have everyone else on ignore too?

Or might it just be convenient for him to "ignore" me, so as to excuse him from having to come up with something to back up his allegation?

He's questioning your manhood Pineappler, he's saying, effectively, you're hiding behind a sofa trembling like a girl afraid to argue with the might of his righteous Protestantism.

He's singing Come Out Yee Black & Tans back at you in many respects.

[SkStu]

"By a lot of [unnamed] accounts" - here we go again, impugning someone who's not alive to speak for himself. Or sue.

So let me get this straight. After years of being a sectarian "scumbag", McDonald suddenly acts completely out of character, on a night like that, and (allegedly) against the orders of his manager? Really?

Having some friends who are QPR fans, I can tell you that Big Mac was an absolute legend at QPR, adored by one and all. Just read this tribute to the big man on this fans' website:
https://www.indyrs.co.uk/2012/12/recollections-of-alan-mcdonald-from-his-friends-and-team-mates/

Note eg what Sharon Smith said about him, she being a big ROI fan working at QPR, who at the time of writing, had moved to Ireland and was working for the Irish PFA:
“When I heard that Alan had passed away I felt that I’d lost a friend. I know he’s a hero to QPR fans, but he was always my mate Macca."

Or what Stephen Lynch had to say:
"He was very supportive to the young players, especially us young Irish lads, and he was forever giving us boots and gear."

And as for the Gallens, if he was so nasty to them, why did Kevin and Steve Gallen voluntarily fly over to Belfast to play in Alan's tribute match, with a number of Irish QPR fans also driving up from the Republic to be there?
https://www.indyrs.co.uk/2012/11/alan-mcdonald-tribute-game-at-seaview-belfast-10th-september-2012/

So I can state with no fear of contradiction that you are talking absolute sh1te - and a particularly nasty-smelling type at that. :poo:

You really ought to be ashamed, but I somehow doubt that someone who'd make up stuff like you just have would even understand the concept, never mind feel it.

I know because I heard it directly from those who were there at the time but I actually don’t give a sh!te what you think to be honest, you absolute bore. Every post from you is the same crap, just packaged differently. Thinly veiled elitist and bigoted crap.

[EalingGreen]

I know because I heard it directly from those who were there at the time but I actually don’t give a sh!te what you think to be honest, you absolute bore. Every post from you is the same crap, just packaged differently. Thinly veiled elitist and bigoted crap.Here is what Kevin Gallen himself said, in tribute to Big Mac:

“Alan McDonald was a hero to me as a boy and then when I joined QPR there I was playing alongside the man.
“To be honest, he gave me a hard time at first – it was non-stop banter with him around – and I didn’t like it.
“But I got used to it and I realised that not only was Macca a great player, he was a great man – someone I looked up to so much.
“He had a reputation as this hard man. He wasn’t like that at all. He was a gentle giant – a genuinely nice person who everyone thought the world of.
“Macca’s a proper legend and was a great bloke who’ll be missed by so many people. It’s an absolute tragedy that he’s gone.”

And while we're at it, here's what another ROI international said upon hearing of his death:
Gary Waddock, another fans’ favourite during his time as a QPR player, brought McDonald in as his right-hand man after being installed as manager of the club in 2006.
Waddock, now manager of Wycombe, said: “He was not only a great player, but a great person too.
“The word legend gets used too much, but Macca was a real legend. He’s right up there with the finest players QPR have ever had.
“As a player, and as a man, he was one of the very best. I’m shocked and saddened by what’s happened and feel for his family."
https://www.westlondonsport.com/features-comment/former-team-mates-pay6-tribute-to83-qpr-hero

Meaning that when you and your (supposed) sources denigrate him as some kind of sectarian "scumbag", it is your bigotry and prejudice which is coming out.

Fortunately all the many Irish people, North and South, who played with and for Big Mac, know better - and have all said what a great guy he really was, loud and clear.

Meanwhile, I'll probably get blamed by the "usual suspects" for dragging this thread further off topic, blithely ignoring who it was brought up Bingham, and now McDonald, in the first place.

Which would be a bit like eg Bohs fans posting a lot of offensive lies about Shamrock Rovers, causing Shams fans to stick up for themselves, then finding that they (Shams) were to "blame".

All of which is the sort of thing which you might expect eg from YBIG, but I must say, I thought rather better of this forum. Mods?

[CraftyToePoke]

Mods?

The Mod has posted a multiple link quotes post about the reality of that evening.

Even the Gallen quote is heavily qualified, basically saying if you could put up with him being an absolute c**t for long enough he'd move onto others, not the usual eulogy content there & he must have been a right f*cker if Gallen still after all these years felt the need to say that upon his passing. So I'm perfectly happy to take Stu's word on it.

I'm moving back on topic.
Maybe time you moved on somewhere too. You add nothing.

[Insidetherock]

Can we take the historical debate to another thread

Norn Iron are not in the play offs

[gastric]

Insidetherock implying EG should go live under a rock, interesting!:)

[Kingdom]

...

... this gave rise to claims about eg singing of The Billy Boys etc. Yet if you watch the actual game (above), where the soundtrack is clear, that song was not sung once!

Now it is true that there were some occasional, rather desultory choruses of The Sash from a section of the crowd, which I don't defend or deny. But other than that, plus some nasty booing of a couple of individuals (Phelan, Kernaghan), there was nothing else objectionable about any of the chants or songs from the NI support throughout the entire game.
...


We're not bigots, but...

[SkStu]

Insidetherock implying EG should go live under a rock, interesting!:)

He's halfway there with his caveman ideology.