Cup Final, who do ya want to win ? [Archive]

CuanaD

08/10/2004, 8:42 AM

Battle of the Fords, eh?

Afraid I'll be up for Longford - I want to see them back in Europe again, caus they are better than the Vaduz result looked. Also its not too far to get to from Dublin so I can get to their Euro games (selfish me!).
2 B honest tho, im just happy that one of our Euro spots is guaranteed to a country team, as a Dub I'm fed up with this looking like a 'dublin & district' league - we need to see the league promoted (like this final) countrywide. :ball:

NY Hoop

08/10/2004, 10:48 AM

The Blues without a doubt. Longford have had their day in the sun. Waterford are a genuine big club and so need the Cup. Also longford disgraced the league in europe and the league needs different clubs to be successful.

KOH

joeSoap

08/10/2004, 10:49 AM

Waterford, cos I know Paddy Purcell......

the 12 th man

08/10/2004, 10:51 AM

Xlex

08/10/2004, 10:59 AM

NY Hoop

08/10/2004, 11:13 AM

fair enough, you can shout all you want for waterford... As another side I wouldn't have minded them at all but forget this we disgraced the league in europe business. Too much of the success of this league is based on european performances. You had a little run in the toto awhile back but what happened before that? There's more pressing issues round at yours to be concerned about way before you contemplate the leagues realitive failure in europe which goes back a long time before the vadus game... idiot...

So I'm an idiot for expressing my view?? Some of you longford fans have some nerve. I'm well aware of our pressing issues pal but the very success and promotion of this league is based on European results. How can you attract barstoolers when you lose to a team from Liechtenstein FFS? Keep burying your head in the sand :rolleyes:

KOH

thecorner

08/10/2004, 11:21 AM

without a shadow of a doubt....longford

boc123

08/10/2004, 11:22 AM

without a shadow of a doubt....longford

Agree 100%

the 12 th man

08/10/2004, 11:24 AM

anyone else feel a poll coming on ? :D

Macy

08/10/2004, 12:06 PM

I'm well aware of our pressing issues pal but the very success and promotion of this league is based on European results. How can you attract barstoolers when you lose to a team from Liechtenstein FFS? Keep burying your head in the sand :rolleyes:

KOH
I was disappointed with the manner of the defeat, but any barstooler who couldn't be arsed finding out they actually play in the swiss league, just missing out on promotion through the playoffs to the top flight, doesn't deserve any respect. Maybe we should've won the tie, but their playing budget was 3 fold of ours, and full time. The part time team made up of postmen, tradesmen etc was ours, not theirs. But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good excuse to have a go...

Wiseguy

08/10/2004, 12:14 PM

patsh

08/10/2004, 12:57 PM

I'd like to see Longford get another crack at Europe. They will surely have learned from the experience of this season, and would be more likely to give a good account of themselves.

On top of that, I don't want to see a bunch of hachetmen who were gifted a replay in the 1/4 final by a pr*ck of a ref get rewarded for their own particular brand of gbh masquerading as football.

Crambler

08/10/2004, 1:06 PM

Must Say Waterford,would Love To See Willie Bruton Get A Cup Medal Also Would Make Rockmount Look Good To Have Been Beaten By The Winners.

elwood

08/10/2004, 1:12 PM

any chance of a proper poll on this ?

paudie

08/10/2004, 1:16 PM

Waterford just it shade as they haven't won the cup in 24 years and hopefully a Cup win would give them a boost in developing the club.

NY Hoop

08/10/2004, 1:51 PM

Firstly i think it's great to have 2 country clubs in the final and long may it continue.I'd certainly be cheering on Waterford on any other day except this so c'mon the Town. As for NY Hoop's comments i will agree that LTFC didn't cover themselves in glory against Vaduz but the fact that the so called one time biggest and most successful club in the LOI can't afford to pay their own players, have no home ground and haven't had for years and are hated everywhere they go because of their behaviour i think you should look at your own situation first before running any other club down.Now the situation at your club is a disgrace on all fronts and has been for a very long time.

Firstly it's not so called, we are the biggest and most successful club. Fact. Bit of a sweeping statement there "are hated everywhere they go". Tell that to the UEFA official in Liberec who reported us for good behaviour.

And I wasnt running your club down. What your club has done with the ground is nothing short of miraculous and they are to be rightfully applauded for that. And what I meant was your TEAM'S performance in Europe left a lot to be desired.

I AM looking at our own situation, believe me and you dont have to tell me that our club is going to the wall but does that mean I dont have a right to go on here? Dont be so naive.

And macy dont know what facts you're into but you did lose to vaduz. The main reason I want to see Waterford winning is that you had your day in the sun. Spread the wealth and longford chill out :cool:

KOH

Macy

08/10/2004, 2:12 PM

And macy dont know what facts you're into but you did lose to vaduz. The main reason I want to see Waterford winning is that you had your day in the sun. Spread the wealth and longford chill out :cool:
I can except that we lost to them, and the day in the sun arguement, however "losing to a team from Liechtestien" may look bad, but it really doesn't paint a proper picture of the club we lost to, that's all.

Good luck in the fight, fook any talks or meetings at this stage.

Wiseguy

08/10/2004, 2:34 PM

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 2:40 PM

The part time team made up of postmen, tradesmen etc was ours, not theirs.

Which is exactly why I wish our three european spaces that effect co-efficent would goto any three from Shels, Bohs, Cork and Drogs. Unfortunately, one of these two finalists will be in Europe next year and I can't see either of them getting us any points. It may take away from the spectacle of the cup final, but I'd really rather see the cup winners get the inter toto spot and have the UEFA spots goto 2nd and 3rd in the league. That way the winner can play in Europe but wont effect our co-efficent, as our FAI cup winners are generally the least able of our four european qualifyers to go on and do something in Europe.

crc

08/10/2004, 2:42 PM

I'm fairly neutral on the issue, but leaning towards Waterford. Nothing against Longford, I'm glad they won the cup and got into Europe, but I'd like to see Wateford have their chance too.

Also, with the winner also getting a place in the Setanta Cup, it means that one or two teams from the north will have to venture into the deep south and not just a quick trip or two up and down the M1 to Dublin.

The Cup is between W' & L' ford, the champions are Shelbourne, that leaves the runners up spot as a race between Drogs, Bohs and Cork.

NY Hoop

08/10/2004, 2:43 PM

What our club has achieved both on & off the field is incredible and i thought that RTE would have been much better off showing a doc. on that or some other EL club to raise the profile instead of that muppet Roddy Collins & the Rod Squad.If you accuse us of disgracing the EL then of course we're gonna jump down your throat but Macy was correct with the facts.I just think it's a bit rich for a Rovers fan to be making remarks about another team considering the crap you are in.

Agree about documentary but unfortunately most of the idiots who think they know about the game here, i.e. barstoolers, would watch Carlisle before Longford. Sad I know but RTE know well what brings in the ratings.

I was also correct with the facts. Even with all the crap we're in we still progressed in Europe last season :D

KOH

max power

08/10/2004, 2:44 PM

Which is exactly why I wish our three european spaces that effect co-efficent would goto any three from Shels, Bohs, Cork and Drogs. Unfortunately, one of these two finalists will be in Europe next year and I can't see either of them getting us any points. It may take away from the spectacle of the cup final, but I'd really rather see the cup winners get the inter toto spot and have the UEFA spots goto 2nd and 3rd in the league. That way the winner can play in Europe but wont effect our co-efficent, as our FAI cup winners are generally the least able of our four european qualifyers to go on and do something in Europe.

eh why ?? second in the league says nothing, we have beatin that team 2 in recent weeks and bohs haven't got too many points off us either this season. we are there on merit, losing 1 in the last 22 cup gmaes . if you don't like it tough. we were there this season because we won the right to be just as you did and if we makeit next season we have a right to play the same way, like it or not.

Roo69

08/10/2004, 2:45 PM

Rite lads havent been on here for a while, just wondering who do the neutrals WANT to win the cup final, if anyone, i know most people just wanna see a good game, although it seems the cork fans seem to have a soft spot for the blues :)

I'll go for Longford only cause i know Pip Keogh very well

Macy

08/10/2004, 2:46 PM

Which is exactly why I wish our three european spaces that effect co-efficent would goto any three from Shels, Bohs, Cork and Drogs. Unfortunately, one of these two finalists will be in Europe next year and I can't see either of them getting us any points. It may take away from the spectacle of the cup final, but I'd really rather see the cup winners get the inter toto spot and have the UEFA spots goto 2nd and 3rd in the league. That way the winner can play in Europe but wont effect our co-efficent, as our FAI cup winners are generally the least able of our four european qualifyers to go on and do something in Europe.
So having gone through beating the full time teams the cup winners should make way for a full time team? In fairness, it wasn't just the part time team that went out first round, and Shels have hardly set the world alight in previous seasons. Short fookin memory if you ask me.

Having no UEFA spot would make the FAI Cup the league cup mark two and seriously undermine the competition.

That's before you take into account the fact that the UEFA spot for the Cup is the old Cup Winners Cup place (a more important competition than the UEFA was pre the merger).

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 2:49 PM

eh why ?? second in the league says nothing, we have beatin that team 2 in recent weeks and bohs haven't got too many points off us either this season. we are there on merit, losing 1 in the last 22 cup gmaes . if you don't like it tough. we were there this season because we won the right to be just as you did and if we makeit next season we have a right to play the same way, like it or not.

True, but the fact is any three from Cork, Bohs, Shels or Drogheda would do alot better in europe than Longford. Lets face it, you got one of the best draws you could possibley have gotten in Vaduz and you couldn't get by them so what are you hopeing to do this year? I know you're there on merit, but it would really help the co-efficent of the league if the two uefa cup spots went to second and third and the inter toto went to the cup winners. If that happend this year, Longfords poor results wouldn't have counted for anything and Corks run would have got it alot more co-efficent points, the year before it was the same story just put Derry in for Longford and Shamrock Rovers in for Cork. Anyway, you'd still be in Europe if you won, just a competition with a different name.

Macy

08/10/2004, 2:52 PM

True, but the fact is any three from Cork, Bohs, Shels or Drogheda would do alot better in europe than Longford.
True. Full time Bohs did much better than us this year. They hammered the opposition away from home nil all, before cleaning up the coefficient points at home....

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 2:52 PM

So having gone through beating the full time teams the cup winners should make way for a full time team? In fairness, it wasn't just the part time team that went out first round, and Shels have hardly set the world alight in previous seasons. Short fookin memory if you ask me.

Having no UEFA spot would make the FAI Cup the league cup mark two and seriously undermine the competition.

That's before you take into account the fact that the UEFA spot for the Cup is the old Cup Winners Cup place (a more important competition than the UEFA was pre the merger).

No it wouldn't be the League cup mark two because the winners would get the inter toto cup spot. That means you'd still be one of four sides in Europe and for teams like yourself, it'd still be the only way to get into Europe for the time being. The only difference is your in a competition where you can't effect our co-efficent and being realistic, that's where the side that will more than likely be the weakest of the four should be for the good of the league.

And Shels have done far better, and will do far better, in Europe than Longford and there's no disputing that. Before this season we were the first side to win an away match in something like ten years and drew away to Rosenborg after it ffs.

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 2:53 PM

True. Full time Bohs did much better than us this year. They hammered the opposition away from home nil all, before cleaning up the coefficient points at home....

You're being sarcastic yet you're actually right. They did do far better than you. They drew away from home and got us co-efficent points, which is far more than Longford did.

Macy

08/10/2004, 2:56 PM

And Shels have done far better, and will do far better, in Europe than Longford and there's no disputing that. Before this season we were the first side to win an away match in something like ten years and drew away to Rosenborg after it ffs.
Yes but you have, and will, fook up as well. Part time teams don't have the monopoly on poor european performances. I was there when the European Giants Shels attempted to hold out for a nil all home draw against hibs of malta to go through on away goals. You really should join the G14.

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 2:58 PM

Yes but you have, and will, fook up as well. Part time teams don't have the monopoly on poor european performances. I was there when the European Giants Shels attempted to hold out for a nil all home draw against hibs to go through on away goals. You really should join the G14.

We're you there when we set a record for the furtherest an Irish team has progressed in the new format of the champions league?

I didn't say Bohs, Shels, Cork or Drogheda wont get bad results in Europe but they're FAR more likely to help our co-efficent than either of the finalists and wouldn't lose to Vaduz. Twice.

Macy

08/10/2004, 3:00 PM

You're being sarcastic yet you're actually right. They did do far better than you. They drew away from home and got us co-efficent points, which is far more than Longford did.
Not exactly the proof that full time footballers are the only one's that deserve european football though is it? We lost 4-2 over 2 legs, they lost 3-1 over two legs.

max power

08/10/2004, 3:03 PM

You're being sarcastic yet you're actually right. They did do far better than you. They drew away from home and got us co-efficent points, which is far more than Longford did.

one thing that must be understood is that we were at a really realy low point at the time of the european games, do you honestly believe that if we went out next week to a european team that the result would be the same....

as macy said the cup ufea place is the old cup winners cup spot and we were there on merit.

how else are we to become a bigger club and closer to full time if people want our best chance of european football removed and all the eggs in one basket in the form of the league. the cup would be a thing of the past and it might only be 3 live game a year but they do promote the game in this country. if the european place was removed no one would bother with it as what would be the point, it would have the same importance as the league cup to most clubs.

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 3:04 PM

Not exactly the proof that full time footballers are the only one's that deserve european football though is it? We lost 4-2 over 2 legs, they lost 3-1 over two legs.

I never said they were. I said the four sides I mentioned are more likely to help our co-efficent than Longford or Waterford, that's beyond dispute. The winners would be getting european football anyway in the inter toto cup, which standard wise isn't far off the UEFA anyway. In fact, Cork met a bigger side in the first round than either UEFA cup contender this season.

Macy

08/10/2004, 3:04 PM

We're you there when we set a record for the furtherest an Irish team has progressed in the new format of the champions league?

I didn't say Bohs, Shels, Cork or Drogheda wont get bad results in Europe but they're FAR more likely to help our co-efficent than either of the finalists and wouldn't lose to Vaduz. Twice.
Yes I was actually and fair play, however one season doesn't make you the be all and end all. The only way teams will improve is with experience, how many times have shels qualified to get that experience.

They would be a simple way of full time teams actually taking the Cup Winners place, and that would be to actually win the bloody thing. You want to penalise the cup winners, rather than penalise the full time teams that need europe yet seem incapable of winning a domestic trophy.

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 3:08 PM

one thing that must be understood is that we were at a really realy low point at the time of the european games, do you honestly believe that if we went out next week to a european team that the result would be the same....

as macy said the cup ufea place is the old cup winners cup spot and we were there on merit.

how else are we to become a bigger club and closer to full time if people want our best chance of european football removed and all the eggs in one basket in the form of the league. the cup would be a thing of the past and it might only be 3 live game a year but they do promote the game in this country. if the european place was removed no one would bother with it as what would be the point, it would have the same importance as the league cup to most clubs.

You're chance of European football wouldn't be removed, I said put the winners into the Inter Toto cup. It's essentially the same standard as I said, Cork actually got a harder draw than either UEFA cup side in their first round, it's just it doesn't effect the co-efficent points. So the cup would lose nothing, it'd still be your best chance of European football and I don't see why anyone would put less effort into it.

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 3:11 PM

Yes I was actually and fair play, however one season doesn't make you the be all and end all. The only way teams will improve is with experience, how many times have shels qualified to get that experience.

They would be a simple way of full time teams actually taking the Cup Winners place, and that would be to actually win the bloody thing. You want to penalise the cup winners, rather than penalise the full time teams that need europe yet seem incapable of winning a domestic trophy.

I never said Shels were the be all and end all, in fact Bohs have a far better European pedigree and I'd be the first to admit that. Hopefully we'll repeat or better this run next year and that will no longer be the case. You'd still get the experience, just in a competition with a different name. Ffs, there's not much between the inter toto and the UEFA cup anyway, look at what the competition did for the profile of Cork!

I don't want to peanlise anyone, I just want to see us getting the best co-efficent points possible, and it seems a shame that runs like Corks, Rovers and Pats have been wasted when they could be playing in the UEFA cup, our co-efficent would nearly be doubled if they were and got similar results.

max power

08/10/2004, 3:13 PM

You're chance of European football wouldn't be removed, I said put the winners into the Inter Toto cup. It's essentially the same standard as I said, Cork actually got a harder draw than either UEFA cup side in their first round, it's just it doesn't effect the co-efficent points. So the cup would lose nothing, it'd still be your best chance of European football and I don't see why anyone would put less effort into it.

but the inter toto is to be removed and places added to ufea cup, i am open to correction on that mind you. what then, no place in european at all. i just feel we need to work together to bring the level of all teams up insted of focusing on just the full time teams and the league with every thing in one basket.

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 3:15 PM

but the inter toto is to be removed and places added to ufea cup, i am open to correction on that mind you. what then, no place in european at all. i just feel we need to work together to bring the level of all teams up insted of focusing on just the full time teams and the league with every thing in one basket.

Ahh, well when that is the case then yeah, the cup winners should get a UEFA cup spot. But before it's scraped, I'd like to see the second UEFA cup spot goto the league and the cup winners get the inter toto. After that though, you're right, you can't have the cup winners getting nothing so they'd need to get a European spot. What happens after the inter toto goes, do we just get three european spots?

NY Hoop

08/10/2004, 3:19 PM

Which is exactly why I wish our three european spaces that effect co-efficent would goto any three from Shels, Bohs, Cork and Drogs. Unfortunately, one of these two finalists will be in Europe next year and I can't see either of them getting us any points. It may take away from the spectacle of the cup final, but I'd really rather see the cup winners get the inter toto spot and have the UEFA spots goto 2nd and 3rd in the league. That way the winner can play in Europe but wont effect our co-efficent, as our FAI cup winners are generally the least able of our four european qualifyers to go on and do something in Europe.

I fear you're digging a hole here. What happened if you won the Cup and got the InterToto? Ollie would be off to the High Court!! No you cannot predict the future and if Longford win it I think they would look to improve on this years embarrassment. I have faith in Alan Reynolds doing well as he has played in a winning European side.

Short memories down tolka way. Only a few years ago you got humbled by Akranes home and away.You did great this year but still only won 1 out of 8 games and you didnt progress 4 rounds. If you want to get down to brass tacks you're still way behind us in European results.

Nobody has the right to dictate who should or shouldnt compete in Europe. Unless its dublin ****y! :D

KOH

Macy

08/10/2004, 3:22 PM

I don't want to peanlise anyone, I just want to see us getting the best co-efficent points possible, and it seems a shame that runs like Corks, Rovers and Pats have been wasted when they could be playing in the UEFA cup, our co-efficent would nearly be doubled if they were and got similar results.
But that just assumes that the clubs could and would repeat that in the UEFA Cup. That isn't necessarily the case, and doesn't take into account the stature of the toto in most european leagues. And besides Pats and Rovers aren't/weren't full time anyway, so by your reckoning they wouldn't be capable of getting results in the UEFA.

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 3:26 PM

But that just assumes that the clubs could and would repeat that in the UEFA Cup. That isn't necessarily the case, and doesn't take into account the stature of the toto in most european leagues. And besides Pats and Rovers aren't/weren't full time anyway, so by your reckoning they wouldn't be capable of getting results in the UEFA.

On your first point, yes that's very true. But the teams in the competition took it seriously, they had to apply to get into the competition, why would they do that if they didn't want to take it seriously? Believe me, Malmo and the Dutch crowd wanted to beat Cork they just couldn't on the day. You're right that there's no gaurentee they'd repeat the erformances in the UEFA cup of course, but even doing half as well would have helped our co-efficent a hell of a lot.

And I never once said you had to be full time to get results in Europe.

blutil

08/10/2004, 3:38 PM

True, but the fact is any three from Cork, Bohs, Shels or Drogheda would do alot better in europe

Getting a bit off topic from who you WANT to win the final, but i wouldnt say that these four teams will be the top four yet, both Bohs and Cork have to come to the RSC before the cup final and with a full blues squad all playing for a place in the final it wont be easy, they could be pipped !!!

Slash/ED

08/10/2004, 3:51 PM

Getting a bit off topic from who you WANT to win the final

Yeah, and for me I think I'll go with Waterford, purley because they haven't won it in so long, but I'm not too bothered either way once it's a good game.

Maz

08/10/2004, 5:45 PM

lads, both waterford and longford are in the final because they were unbeaten (to state the obvious)! Yer teams had the opportunity to put them out, some of the teams had the opportunity Twice and with extra time and didnt do it!
Either way one of these teams are going to europe!!
and For Obvious reasons i hope its Longford!!

eoinh

08/10/2004, 6:16 PM

Not sure who i want to win ( I was actually hoping Drogheda would get through). The one thing i want is a good game. Ill go for Waterford as Longford disgraced the whole country in Europe and we cant have that again.

Longfordian

08/10/2004, 11:49 PM

I've argued on these boards before that our European defeat although not brilliant was not the disgrace some people make it out, laugh all you like about Liechtenstein but remember this international team of which nine squad members play for FC Vaduz lost 2-0 to England recently and 3-0 to Holland, would Rovers do that or Shels or Drogs/Bohs..no..we got caught at a particularly low ebb in our season and were beaten by a team more experienced than ours..fair enough we didn't do any favours for the league but why let the facts get in the way of a good story..

Two seasons ago when they (Vaduz) first started putting real money in, Livingston beat them on away goals with a Vaduz goal disallowed with the last kick of the game in Scotland..They have a budget of �2.4m a year, their secretary told us that, that's twice Bohs or Cork or Drogs budget, internationals all over why should we think they're a soft touch..Our performances were disappointing yes, a disgrace I don't believe so..you didnt see Vaduz so don't assume you know how good they are..Why should we be denied a European spot because some of the fans from other clubs decide "Ye were a disgrace"..No chance we might learn with a bit of experience then, no?..Anyway rant over, just hope we show ye what we can do in Europe next year.