Waterford winding up order

[Dodge]

Oh and by the way, just want to point out to ye, that the case Gary Dunphy took against the club was appealed and won, seen a few posts a few pages back bringing that into it.

Waterford didn't win anything. The PFAI said that Dunphy didn't have to pay his own bills. They were 100% correct.

The fact that Waterford couldn't prove their insurance covered him for months isn't a "win" for them

If Waterford are looking for favours from the FAI, you'd think they'd be a little bit cuter than to start trying to question them about finances at the AGM. You could say fair play to them for having a bit of a backbone, but their dealings with Henderson suggest that praise isn't wholly merited either

[gormacha]

Waterford didn't win anything. The PFAI said that Dunphy didn't have to pay his own bills. They were 100% correct.

The fact that Waterford couldn't prove their insurance covered him for months isn't a "win" for them

I don't see why the narrative of "win/lose" is appropriate at all in these type of circumstances. I don't like commenting on cases in which none of us have anything near the full details, but if we look at these types of cases generally, what happened could be seen to vindicate all parties.

Imagine this scenario: A player gets injured. He believes he's not responsible for paying for his treatment. His union agrees with him and advocates for him.

His employer tries to get their insurers to pay. The insurers contest their liability. The employers counter-contest this, as is their right. All parties are acting without malice, and in defence of their own position.

Eventually, the insurers concede liability. The employers put the wheels in motion. The player gets his treatment.

I can't say for sure if this applied in Gary Dunphy's case, but it would be a familiar enough pattern of organisational behaviour. It's not ideal, but it seems perfectly rational behaviour by all parties, and little need for a villain/victim story-line.

Dodge, what favours are Waterford looking for? And yes, there may be a bit of pot calling the kettle black with regard to finances, but they surely have the right to ask such questions of the organisation that is supposed to police their own financial probity?

[Dodge]

I don't see why the narrative of "win/lose" is appropriate at all in these type of circumstances. I don't like commenting on cases in which none of us have anything near the full details, but if we look at these types of cases generally, what happened could be seen to vindicate all parties.

maybe on the end result, but even that contradicted (somewhat) Waterford's statement in response to the PFAI's 1st one. It was a mess, and that's why I#d be uncomfortable with notions of Waterford "winning"


Dodge, what favours are Waterford looking for?
The paying of affiliation fees from future "prize" money according to some here. That some also do it, doesn't mean that it's not a favour IMO


And yes, there may be a bit of pot calling the kettle black with regard to finances, but they surely have the right to ask such questions of the organisation that is supposed to police their own financial probity?
Absolutely, but in real-politik they know that asking those questions may have negative knock-ons for them. Such as a tightening up of the affiliation fee loophole

[bluemovie]

I agree with Dodge on the real-politik of the situation. That said, I'd say fair play to Paul Cooke for being the only insider to at least attempt to ask questions about the FAI's finances - just unfortunate that Waterford United's relationship with the FAI is in such a precarious state at the moment.

In some ways, I think it's better to view the ban from the AGM as separate to the club's current woes. Paul Cooke is our FAI representative, but not a member of our management committee. To all intents and purposes, he's 'our man in Dublin', but largely separate from the running of the club. His background as current chief executive of the Sunday Business Post and former managing director of the Irish Daily Star have obviously influenced his natural journalistic motivation for quizzing the head honchos rather than acting on behalf of Waterford United.

We weren't the only club who hadn't paid their affiliation fees (and this seems common policy for many clubs to offset them against money coming back from the FAI), but we were the only ones whose representative was on disrepute charges for not towing the FAI line on finances. Given the refusal to answer any questions from the media either at the AGM, I saw it more as Paul being banned than Waterford United.

However, the ban is an indication of how damaged the club's relationship with the FAI (including ex-Waterford directors John Delaney and, seemingly, Milo Corcoran) has become. That's a worrying case others have to answer for.

[nr637]

Teenager Jack Doherty joins Ipswich Town on two-year deal
Teenage winger Jack Doherty (http://foot.ie/people/jack-doherty/) has signed a two-year deal with Championship side Ipswich Town (http://foot.ie/football/ipswich-town/).
The 18-year-old joins the Tractor Boys from Irish outfit Waterford United after impressing on trial with Mick McCarthy's side. A statement on the Ipswich's official website said that the paperwork would be finalised tomorrow, with Doherty travelling to tonight's friendly at Colchester and watching from the dugout.

Any money here for Waterford to help pay their debts?

Doherty is Ipswich's ninth signing of the summer.

[Longfordian]

Presume they'll get some compensation but it wouldn't be huge. Still, it all helps.

[cufc champions]

Speaking to a relative of Dohertys last night. He me told the fee was 50k, with the United and Palace profits on top of that they should be able to Henderson out in 5 days time.

[Partizan]

Speaking to a relative of Dohertys last night. He me told the fee was 50k, with the United and Palace profits on top of that they should be able to Henderson out in 5 days time.

Waterford have offered Stephen Henderson €50,000 as a final offer.

http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/185897-waterford-united-make-offer-to-stephen-henderson-wlrfmnews.html

[Jofspring]

So they have offered exactly what it is believed the courts said he was owed. I'm sure he'll snap their hands off for it.

[cufc champions]

So they have offered exactly what it is believed the courts said he was owed. I'm sure he'll snap their hands off for it.
They havent offered him his costs, but apparently his wife is his representitive in court they are looking for her fee to be waived.

[Jofspring]

Jesus if his wife is his representative then it should be just waived and done with.

[GCdfc]

I totally disagree. She represented him as a professional. She is entitled to payment for her work. He should tell Waterford to bugger off and pursue the winding up order. They have no right to make a final offer on their terms.

[Partizan]

I totally disagree. She represented him as a professional. She is entitled to payment for her work. He should tell Waterford to bugger off and pursue the winding up order. They have no right to make a final offer on their terms.

Beat FM are reporting Henderson has rejected the offer.

Plenty of horsetrading to be done so.

[DRDoc]

Jesus if his wife is his representative then it should be just waived and done with.

Seems the wife just happens to work in a solicitors office part time! She is not a solicitor or a barrister - so has nothing to do with the costs

[Dodge]

Seems the wife just happens to work in a solicitors office part time! She is not a solicitor or a barrister - so has nothing to do with the costs

For a non-professional she's running rings around Waterford. Maybe that's the reason they changed legal teams last week.

[Longfordian]

What's all this "save Waterford United" craic on Twitter about? "Only 6 hours to save the club", do they not have the money to pay Henderson or what?

[Bosco]

What's all this "save Waterford United" craic on Twitter about? "Only 6 hours to save the club", do they not have the money to pay Henderson or what?

It would seem they don't. That €50,000 offered was apparently
€20,000 from the Jack Doherty deal, €15,000 in February 2014 which they receive from the FAI and a further €15,000 the following February.

Taking into account his legal fees on top of that, you can see why he rejected the offer. Seems to be a big drive on Twitter and elsewhere to get as many bums on seats as possible in the RSC tonight, would be great to see a big crowd there, unlikely though.

[deiseach]

What's all this "save Waterford United" craic on Twitter about? "Only 6 hours to save the club", do they not have the money to pay Henderson or what?

Either they do and they're playing the most idiotic game of silly buggers, or they don't and we're screwed. Whichever is true, it's bad.

[gormacha]

Either they do and they're playing the most idiotic game of silly buggers, or they don't and we're screwed. Whichever is true, it's bad.

Absolutely spot on.

I'm less than hopeful. Dark days indeed.

[deiseach]

gormacha, what kind of contract was given to Stephen Henderson when he became manager? I'm guessing the current figure being demanded by Henderson includes legal fees, damages, vexatious yadda yadda. But the original amount must have been large enough that the club thought it was worth taking a chance on not having to pay it. Which makes me think that it was a contract they never could have paid on First Division revenue in the first place . . .

[gormacha]

My recollection is that he had 18 months left on the contract. I suspect thats what gives it its heft rather than a unusually high salary.

[deiseach]

My recollection is that he had 18 months left on the contract. I suspect thats what gives it its heft rather than a unusually high salary.

But if they can't afford it now when expenditure at the club is cut to the bone, how were they expecting to pay it then?

[Martinho II]

its bad news for us if waterford go.. we lose seven points athlone lose nothin!

[gormacha]

But if they can't afford it now when expenditure at the club is cut to the bone, how were they expecting to pay it then?

I don't know, but I imagine the burden of paying a part-time salary on a monthly basis was viewed as being sustainable.

[Mr A]

Willie John Kiely is owed money by the club too having posted on twitter that he is owed €4000.

"I'd donate only for I'm owed €4000"
"can ye get one going to pay me #notmessing people running it have let ye down"
"I hope it works for ye but as fans ye deserve better! Too many lies have been told to all the genuine fans"

WUFC obviously in bad shape- if more people join the winding up petition or indeed launch new ones they could be in even more trouble.

[disgruntled]

Same old League of Ireland story.

Don't spend what you can't afford.
If you get in trouble talk to your creditors, come to some arrangement & stick to it.
If you try & be too clever this is where you end up.
Waterford seem to think it was everybody's else's fault that they owed money.

Waterford's way of doing business is old hat.
You might have got away with it years ago but not now.
I hope Waterford survive if only for the genuine League of Ireland fans down there.

[Bosco]

Case adjourned until 2 O'clock to provide for ongoing negotiations.

[Longfordian]

Put back until 2pm as talks are ongoing

[Bosco]

Reports that Henderson is looking for a guarantee from the FAI for Waterford's compensation offer.

Waterford fans apparently raised €7,000 over the weekend to add to the offer, fair play to them.

[Nesta99]

After last seasons play off and subsequent threats to withdraw from the league the directors at WU really seemed to adopt an Fcuk the lot of ye stance, and became a bit mavrick in the external dealings/debts that they just didnt want to pay The best of luck to the fans in their efforts but i hope tha board isnt bailed out of this mess by fan only to stay on and continue in their current manner.

[Partizan]

After last seasons play off and subsequent threats to withdraw from the league the directors at WU really seemed to adopt an Fcuk the lot of ye stance, and became a bit mavrick in the external dealings/debts that they just didnt want to pay The best of luck to the fans in their efforts but i hope tha board isnt bailed out of this mess by fan only to stay on and continue in their current manner.

Spot on. I think the timely intervention by the fans who have come up with nearly €8k in 24 hours may have actually saved us. However as you rightly pointed out, that does not mean that things will remain the same. I have a distinct feeling that the fans will demand change from within.

Fingers crossed it's enough.

[Dillonman]

Supposedly both parties have reached an agreement according to the LOI Blog on bookface!

[Mr A]

Getting close to the time now. Hard to see anything other than a deal being done. And hard to see that as anything but a temporary reprieve- clearly there are big problems to address at WUFC.

[Mr A]

Paul O'Hehir on Twitter:


The @waterfordunited case was first up. Barrister says 'terms being drawn up'...seems like legal teams back into court room shortly

Stephen Henderson and @waterfordunited fans still in court room. Club reps and legal team have left momentarily

[Mr A]

Dan McDonnell:


In High Court where Waterford U have reached agreement with Stephen Henderson and avoided winding up. Fundraising efforts of fans crucial.

O'Hehir again:


Agreement reached by Stephen Henderson and @waterfordunited, case struck out and club survives. Fans saved the day with extra monies raised

[Town Legend]

Great news for Waterford fans, delighted for them. Now to oust the board from their club!

[White Horse]

Congratulations to Waterford United fans in saving this great club.

The hard work starts now.

[Bosco]

Great news and a serious relief for us. Serious effort from the fans to raise that money.

Interesting to see what happens now or if anything happens at all.

[outspoken]

Full credit to the fans 7000 in just a few days is massive but I get the feeling this might not be the last of Waterford's troubles considering WJK's tweets over the weekend that he himself is still owed 4k by the club. Time for the fans to take ownership.

[oriel]

Pleased to hear this, seems the most sensible of all outcomes. Haven't fully read up on all aspects, but it would appear the board have been slowly running the club and the good name and fans into the ground.

Well done to the fans whop dug deep. We were in dire straits last summer with an owner who just wanted out at any route, yes he made improvements to the place, but all the good was put bad during almost all of last season when he couldnt care less.

Waterford should use this as the first stage of many hurldes to clear to clean the club up from inside out. When locals and fans see proper football people are involved, and the deadwood and old guard have left, you will be surprised at how quickly things will change, not just from attendances, but on fund raising. Need to remove the 'Im not giving a cent to that lot' feelings. A statement that a lot of clubs were effected by before they changed things around.

Good luck to all involved, it can be done..............

[Bosco]

Despite some Waterford fans initially portraying Henderson as the villain in all of this it seems they should be grateful to him. By the looks of things he's almost going to be out of pocket from all of this. After his legal fees, he won't even be receiving 1/3 of the €50,000 he was initially owed and its going to be 2015 before he receives it. Is it a case that he honestly never intended on having them wound up and he just settled for the best offer available at the last minute?

[Longfordian]

Despite some Waterford fans initially portraying Henderson as the villain in all of this it seems they should be grateful to him. By the looks of things he's almost going to be out of pocket from all of this. After his legal fees, he won't even be receiving 1/3 of the €50,000 he was initially owed and its going to be 2015 before he receives it. Is it a case that he honestly never intended on having them wound up and he just settled for the best offer available at the last minute?
That's what it's always seemed like to me as I never felt he would actually allow the club to go under if they made any serious attempt to pay him. Revenue or perhaps a business creditor would send them under just to prove a point but it's hard for an individual with any goodwill for the club to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the WUFC directors weren't taking the threat seriously either. It's a kind of Russian roulette that the fans shouldn't be put through though.

[Mad Moose]

Delighted for the fans and just catching up on the last page of this tonight. It's been an interesting read. All to familiar a sad tale of appalling mismanagement and treatment of a club with the inevitable long term knock on effect on trust.

There are a few more jumps to negotiate yet.

[legendz]

On the very much far distant outside looking in, I'm not confident of any change despite the events today.

[disgruntled]

Glad Waterford survived this time.
I hope they take the chance they've been given.
Fans come to the rescue once again.

[**FrOsTy**]

Would just like to say a huge thanks to everybody who contributed to save our club, and to everyone for a good willl messages. They are sincerely appreciated.

[Charlie Darwin]

Glad to see WUFC come through and hopefully this gives the fans a strong bargaining position to force change.

[Partizan]

Article in today's Sun in relation to the whole saga. Interesting read.

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/sport/irishfootball/5041509/Start-and-Hend-Blues-saved-by-fans-but-ex-boss-fears-for-career.html

[madblaa]

Well lads, As one of the Be Sharps (Famous 5) I want to thank all of the well wishers here, and especially the ones who been through the mill like us, I have to say it was one of the most horrible times of my life, but I am delighted to have been the one representing not just the 5 who brokered the final deal, but ALL of the fans who made it possible. If you read the papers, I am Russell Dalton, the one who upset all of the Dundalk fans last year, for that, I sincerely apologise, as I now know first hand how horrific the whole situation is.

I will be speaking on Radio DBSC just before the broadcast of tonight's Blues game from Salthill Devon, at approximatly 7.30-35 tonight, and I would love if you could listen in.

It's at times like these that ALL LOI fans stick together, the fai are a joke and their invitation today regarding new teams is ridiculous, given the criteria to join the league, they live in a world where everyone has as much money as the people who run it all.

Anyways listen in, http://www.ustream.tv/channel/radio-dbsc

[Ezeikial]

If you read the papers, I am Russell Dalton, the one who upset all of the Dundalk fans last year, for that, I sincerely apologise, as I now know first hand how horrific the whole situation is.


Russell, As you recognise you upset some Dundalk fans last year by making unfounded and unsubstantiated allegations about both fans and club officials.

You really pi$$ed me off by repeating these serious allegations again a number of months ago.

I hope you learn to be more careful about defaming others now that you appear to have taken on the mantle of fans spokesperson.

I wish you and other Blues fans well in your efforts