Epl 2013/14

[NeverFeltBetter]

There are weak elements in that squad, whether through age or lack of merit, but the extraordinary managerial talent that was Alex Ferguson got them points and titles that other men wouldn't have. I'd say that having a man like Moyes, with his own new way of doing things, in charge has been a big shock for the likes of Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, Carrick, even Rooney after all this time. A lot of the current squad seem completely unmotivated to play to their best under Moyes and will be gone in a few months (unless Moyes is).

Moyes' transfer history so far has been real hit and miss - Fellaini looks like a flop but I can see Mata adding more and more as time goes on - and I can see him doing the usual World Cup summer thing and splurging on a few tournament stars with little long term return. But he could also make a team to his liking and get them moving again. United do have some huge kit sponsor deal going through soon, so the money will be available.

But for this season, the United squad have checked out. I'd say they'll lose every difficult game still to come, including this Wednesday. Too many of them aren't interested.

[bennocelt]

Thirty Seven million on an unproven player that has yet to shine. Could have at least built a decent central defence with that money. Would you trust Moyes in the summer to buy correctly?

[KK77]

United's decline is remarkable. They were a disorganised rabble today and even their experienced players looked lost. Liverpool played well but I still don't think they're that good. They got gifted their lead without having to really work for it.

United's game against Olympiakos will be interesting. Are they beyond salvaging?

Liverpool have certainly played a lot better than Sunday but they got the job done. Sturridge and Suarez weren't as good as normal.

[DeLorean]

That was the worrying thing from a United point of view. I would have feared for them had the Liverpool that played at Eastlands turned up, or even reproductions of the home wins against Everton & Arsenal. The sad thing is Liverpool didn't need to be anything near their best to win the game comfortably.

Fellaini seems to be a bit of a scapegoat, I'm not saying that he is good enough but it's like it was decided in advance that he wasn't/isn't. He looked a very good player in a more advanced role at Everton, the least he deserves is to spend some time in that position before the claws come out. He's an ever present on a Belgium side that are many people's dark horses for the WC... how bad can he be?

The game tomorrow night is interesting alright though... the fact is that United are going to have to play to a level that they have got nowhere near at any occassion this season. Hard to see them turning is on just like that and I'm definitely not convinced that they have the stomach for it seeing as they couldn't raise it for a Liverpool side pushing for the title at OT. In fairness, even though he should have been sent off a couple of times over, Rafael looked like a player giving it everything on Sunday... Fellaini was another but the rest looked disinterested or just not at the races.

[NeverFeltBetter]

They've had their brief moments under Moyes. The CPL group stages were bypassed pretty smoothly, including a hiding handed out to Bayer. But that was a long time ago. The Greeks are a decent outfit. I'd say they'll win comfortably enough at Old Trafford.

[Charlie Darwin]

Liverpool are collapsing against City. 2-0 to 2-2 in the space of 5 minutes.

[DannyInvincible]

Back in front now after a suspect spell there. They had the City defence all over the place in the first half and were playing lovely stuff with great intensity, but City did well to being it back to 2-2. Should be an exciting last ten.

Suarez is lucky to still be on the pitch. He must be a total idiot diving around on a yellow card. Speaking of Suarez, how is it only now that I've noticed how unusual his ear lobes look?

[Charlie Darwin]

At least one of those dives should have been a penalty though. Still, he'd do himself more favours if he stood up and hung on to the ball.

[Stuttgart88]

Back in front now after a suspect spell there. They had the City defence all over the place in the first half and were playing lovely stuff with great intensity, but City did well to being it back to 2-2. Should be an exciting last ten.

Suarez is lucky to still be on the pitch. He must be a total idiot diving around on a yellow card. Speaking of Suarez, how is it only now that I've noticed how unusual his ear lobes look?was he on a yellow when he took that blatant late dive? I couldn't believe Clattenberg didn't book him.

[DeLorean]

He was booked after five minutes. I only heard the game on the radio, went pretty much as I expected to be honest. Mourinho will have more of a plan for Liverpool's strengths i.e. pace and incredible ability to storm out of the blocks. It really is crucial to stop them getting a good start... foul, time waste, do whatever it takes.

[DannyInvincible]

was he on a yellow when he took that blatant late dive? I couldn't believe Clattenberg didn't book him.

I think Clattenberg succumbed to the pressure of the situation and might have feared a firey Anfield backlash had he booked Suarez for the dive as it would have meant sending him off and potentially "being to blame" for derailing Liverpool's title challenge. He bottled a perfect opportunity to teach Suarez a long-needed lesson though. He'd already booked Suarez for the first hard tackle of the game and you couldn't argue with it really. It was a Keane-versus-Overmars-type tackle that many refs might usually let go in the early stages of a big game, but the type that would otherwise warrant a booking were it later in the game. By the letter of the law, it was a booking though, as was the later dive. Maybe Clattenberg was making amends by quickly brandishing a red to Henderson for his poor tackle in the final minutes.

[Stuttgart88]

Except the Henderson red was a nailed on red. Out of character, sure, but a bad tackle.

I'm disappointed that the ref bottled an opportunity to send a message to divers everywhere that diving comes with consequences if caught. Now the message is that they may be punished but not in big games, not if you're at home and not if it is potentially important.

[DannyInvincible]

The annoying thing about it is that if the ref had sent Suarez off, he'd no doubt have been accused of having ruined or spoiled the game, or the title-race even, God forbid. The reality, however, would, or should, have been that Suarez had ruined things through his antics and by putting the ref in a situation where he had no other option but to send him off.


Now the message is that they may be punished but not in big games, not if you're at home and not if it is potentially important.

Another top tip to help avoid punishment for simulation is to go out and get booked first with a bad tackle early on; the rasher, the better!

[DeLorean]

I remember Roy Keane getting a second yellow for simulation against Blackburn years ago. It was an early season game but high profile enough as Blackburn were the defending champions at the time. Think it was kind of harsh but probably a dive alright.

I don't really agree that Clattenburg would have been accused of ruining the game or the title race, particularly because it was Suarez who would have taken all of the heat as only he can. And deservedly so. Once the referee makes the right call, and it's obvious it was the correct call, I'm not sure I know of many examples where they have come in for criticism.

[DannyInvincible]

I remember Roy Keane getting a second yellow for simulation against Blackburn years ago. It was an early season game but high profile enough as Blackburn were the defending champions at the time. Think it was kind of harsh but probably a dive alright.

Careful now! We all remember what happened to Alf-Inge Haaland after he once accused Roy of having taken a dive.


I don't really agree that Clattenburg would have been accused of ruining the game or the title race, particularly because it was Suarez who would have taken all of the heat as only he can. And deservedly so. Once the referee makes the right call, and it's obvious it was the correct call, I'm not sure I know of many examples where they have come in for criticism.

It's hard to know, but he did appear to buckle under the pressure. It was a blatant dive (under the nose of the linesman, if further clarification was ever needed) and Clattenberg was aware of this. Otherwise, it would have made sense for him to award Suarez a free-kick. It wasn't a red-card offence in itself, which is maybe why he was reluctant to send Suarez off.

[DeLorean]

Oh I have no doubt he bottled it.

[KK77]

I thought Sterling played well on Sunday. Seemed to be basically sitting on top of Fernandino at times. Gerrard also played out of his skin.

[DeLorean]

It is some title race in fairness, even if I'm not mad about any of the contenders.

The Liverpool fans I know (too many!) seem pretty chuffed with the City result last night. That's understandable enough I guess, as it leaves them knowing a draw against Chelsea will be enough to keep things in their own hands, assuming they win at Norwich which is not a certainty. The real winners last night were Chelsea though I feel. They should now be going to Anfield in a much better frame of mind, assuming Sunderland don't strike twice on Saturday. The way it was looking before last night, Chelsea thought they would be going to Liverpool needing a win, but still relying on other results to win the title. I don't think this would have been ideal for a team playing two CL semi finals either side of the Anfield match.

Now they know that one massive performance at Anfield should be enough to win the title. They have been pretty good at grinding out these kind of results of the years.

Obviously the timing of the match isn't ideal for Chelsea, but at least it's Tues - Sun and not Wed - Sat. That gives them an extra couple of days to get ready. They have won 9/10 of their league games which have followed CL ties this season, drawing the other one. They have won 5/5 on the back of away ties in Europe. Their 2-1 win over City and 6-0 demolition of Arsenal followed CL games so I think they'll be quite confident that they can get themselves right, regardless of what happens in Madrid.

They should probably take a calculated gamble against Sunderland on Saturday though and rest some of the key guys.

[OwlsFan]

I am not sure about this "resting" business. It was something brought in by Ranieri and all the EPL managers followed suit. Play your best team every game and win. It did the English teams no harm in the 1980s/90s.

[DeLorean]

That was when they all had small squads and everybody was in the same boat. The major advantage Liverpool have had this season was their lack of games in comparison with their rivals, they've had a real freshness about them all season.

[Charlie Darwin]

geysir will tell you all about the perils suffered by Martin O'Neill playing the same 11 rain, hail or shine for an entire season.

[BonnieShels]

I'm uneasy at this supporting Man City and Chelsea thing.

My Facebook is unbearable when the Pool win.

My uneasiness is tempered by the fact that I'm a Shels supporting Dub.

I'm used to the dislike.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm uneasy at this supporting Man City and Chelsea thing.

My Facebook is unbearable when the Pool win.

My uneasiness is tempered by the fact that I'm a Shels supporting Dub.

I'm used to the dislike.
The trick is to support every Shels game like a Liverpool one. Every time Jordan Keegan or whoever scores, you have to celebrate it as if Suarez has just scored the winner against Norwich. Preferably with a couple of Andy Grayisms or "you beauuuuuuuuttyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!" thrown in.

[bennocelt]

geysir will tell you all about the perils suffered by Martin O'Neill playing the same 11 rain, hail or shine for an entire season.

Didnt do with Villa though, and messed up their chances of getting a really good league finish and a decent FA cup run, that ultimately got him the boot

[DeLorean]

I'm uneasy at this supporting Man City and Chelsea thing.

It has come surprisingly naturally to me when faced with the bleak alternative.

In fairness to Liverpool, they'll more than deserve it if they see it through, but that's neither here nor there really.

[OwlsFan]

As I said before on this thread, if a team goes in to a game expecting to win and rests players, then they sometimes end up like Chelsea today. They never really looked like winning that game and I think Alan Smith half way through the game predicted a Sunderland win. The winning penalty was dubious ok but I can understand why it was given. Chelsea were lucky to have 11 men on the pitch but all managers ever see are the decisions which go against them - apparently the first penalty awarded against Chelsea all season. The rant of the assistant manager was pathetic and Mourinho's after match conference, bizarre. Talk about damning someone with praise or sarcasm, whichever you prefer. He hinted there was a conspiracy to make sure everything went down to the wire. He may be a great manager but it will never outweigh his human frailties but then I am not a Chelsea supporter, and certainly not after today's soap opera.

Well done John O'Shea and Sunderland.

[Charlie Darwin]

That's pure Mourinho to be honest. He's completely shameless but he'll do anything to take the heat off his players and put it entirely on himself (or certain scapegoats within the team, as at Real).

[DannyInvincible]

He hinted there was a conspiracy to make sure everything went down to the wire.

I just find him very childish and graceless. What exactly did he say in the press conference to imply this? Surely, if there was such a conspiracy, a Chelsea victory would have helped in keeping the run-in more competitive. Mourinho's sarcastic post-match interview was so embarrassing, even Jamie Redknapp broke out of his usual platitudes on Sky Sports and said something interesting for a change:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykASjx3Q1J4

Just saw this story this morning and it looks like there'll be a fair bit more to come from it: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/19/police-called-drug-scandal-major-club


A major football club in England has been rocked by a drugs scandal that has gone as far as the police and the English authorities, the Observer can reveal.

The police were called in to investigate after senior members of staff started suspecting some of their colleagues were regularly using class-A drugs inside the stadium. The allegations go to the top of the club and involve at least one high-profile figure with a considerable reputation within the sport.

On one occasion, two prominent officials were allegedly caught snorting cocaine in the boardroom of a rival club during an away fixture. Rumours of the incident have spread among other clubs in the same division. Officials of the league in question have been made aware and are treating it as a first within the sport.

...

Weren't two Villa officials dismissed from their posts during the week without any public explanation? I don't suppose it could be related?

[bennocelt]

Rumour on the interweb it is AVilla

[DannyInvincible]

More Suarez nonsense from the Norwich-Liverpool game earlier:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC4x425qpdU

[Stuttgart88]

I couldn't help thinking of the very very late penalty Chelsea got to save a draw at home to WBA in the winter. Tough luck Jose.

I think the full back got lucky with the first part of his tackle but then it looked to me like he was stretching to block a cross rather than make a tackle. Altidore put his leg into his though, rather than the other way around, in order to make sure it looked like a foul.

Anyway, unfortunately football is primarily a soap opera these days so Jose is given the publicity he craves. The FA should seriously put pressure on the EPL and the TV people not to make post-match manager interviews mandatory.

I think what has generally been a very good and generally very sporting season has been marred by high profile nobbishness from some players and managers of late. I'm still livid with Clattenberg for not giving Suarez a second yellow last week. I really do think the authorities and the press should be tougher on these things.

[osarusan]

He's completely shameless but he'll do anything to take the heat off his players and put it entirely on himself.
I actually think this is a load of codology. Really, it just gives him licence to say whatever crap he wants and sell it as some kind of management strategy because he's taking pressure off the players. I can't understand why so many people believe it.

[Charlie Darwin]

I actually think this is a load of codology. Really, it just gives him licence to say whatever crap he wants and sell it as some kind of management strategy because he's taking pressure off the players. I can't understand why so many people believe it.
Mainly because it's true.

[osarusan]

Mainly because it's true.
I just don't think so, the only media attention devoted to him is that which he creates.

[Stuttgart88]

Mourinho is a media hoor, pure and simple. It's all about him when they win. Late goals against City and PSG - he made it all about him. He's a pathetic moaner and sore loser when things go against him. He's not alone but he's the worst, especially now Ferguson has gone.

At least the media has been unanimously critical of Chelsea this week. I wish football's authorities were firmer on this nonsense and firmer on people like Suarez and the others who have been caught cheating. It can't be that hard, surely?

[Charlie Darwin]

I just don't think so, the only media attention devoted to him is that which he creates.
And everybody's talking about him and largely ignoring the team who just lost 2-1 at home to the bottom side in the league.

[DeLorean]

As I said before on this thread, if a team goes in to a game expecting to win and rests players, then they sometimes end up like Chelsea today. They never really looked like winning that game and I think Alan Smith half way through the game predicted a Sunderland win. The winning penalty was dubious ok but I can understand why it was given. Chelsea were lucky to have 11 men on the pitch but all managers ever see are the decisions which go against them - apparently the first penalty awarded against Chelsea all season. The rant of the assistant manager was pathetic and Mourinho's after match conference, bizarre. Talk about damning someone with praise or sarcasm, whichever you prefer. He hinted there was a conspiracy to make sure everything went down to the wire. He may be a great manager but it will never outweigh his human frailties but then I am not a Chelsea supporter, and certainly not after today's soap opera.

Well done John O'Shea and Sunderland.

Chelsea didn't rest players though, bar Cech and I think he was carrying a knock. They might have been fresher if they did.

[BonnieShels]

And Moyes has gone...

[KK77]

And Moyes has gone...

Expected but i think he should have been given next season minimum but as many have said it's a business now.

[Neish]

Not surprising really, still think he is a good manager but perhaps not suited to the pressure and egos of managing a top European club.

I'd see Van Gaal as the best replacement at present, get him in on a 2-3 year contract. Get the ship steadied and look at other options then. Guardiola, Simone, Klopp, Montella, Martinez etc

[Crosby87]

Man U fans spelling is really poor today, even for twitter.

[Closed Account 2]

Not surprising really, still think he is a good manager but perhaps not suited to the pressure and egos of managing a top European club.

I'd see Van Gaal as the best replacement at present, get him in on a 2-3 year contract. Get the ship steadied and look at other options then. Guardiola, Simone, Klopp, Montella, Martinez etc

Marco Simone? He didn't really set the world alight at Monaco...

[Charlie Darwin]

Marco Simone? He didn't really set the world alight at Monaco...
Not sure if you're being serious here.

[Closed Account 2]

Oh he means Diego Simeone?

[Charlie Darwin]

Yes. Marco Simone would almost as strange an appointment as Ryan Giggs.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Giggs in charge for real would have great potential for a Staunton-esque comedy season.

[Closed Account 2]

Simone was a brilliant player in Italy in the mid/late 90s at Milan, where he was known as Peter Pan, winning loads of domestic trophies and a few European Cups. He flunked it a bit as a manager (at Monaco) but didnt really enjoy all the financing that Ranieri got.

Any truth in the rumor that Giggs's first team talk started with the phrase, "I want us to be equals, I want us to treat each other as brothers"?

[BonnieShels]

Ancelloti for me seems like the most sensible and "United-esque" appt.

Though, stealing Mourinho would be gas craic.

[shakermaker1982]

Moyes had to go.

I feel a bit sorry for him because he was so out of his depth. The leaks from the press about the reaction from some of the players during the reign was disappointing to read but what you do expect from a load of prima Donna millionaires. I think he lost the dressing room from the very start with the intense pre-season training.

In hindsight maybe he should have tried to clear out some of the bad eggs early on like Ferdinand but United's poor display in the transfer market during the squad meant he had to rely on the squad he inherited.

If he had managed to bring in Baines, Fabrages and the lad from Bilbao who knows how he would have fared?

[osarusan]

Result at Anfield yesterday blows it open again.

i thought it was a great performance by Chelsea. Brilliantly set up and they executed it to perfection. Can't remember Liverpool (who had won...11?...in a row) creating even one chance.