Epl 2013/14

[DeLorean]

Fixtures released. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/fixtures)

Tough start for Moyes... Chelsea (h), Liverpool & City (a) in three of their first five games.

[KK77]

On paper it's tough but they normally always get through these tough games.

Looks like Mignolet is on the way to anfield. Will signal the end of Reina for sure. On another note great news for Westwood i hope.

[DeLorean]

Reina's been shocking for a number of years at this stage. He was overrated at his best anyway in my opinion, reasonably safe at his peak but not world class. I remember he won save of the season one year for a pretty basic stop against Boro (I think). It was the same season that Given made a ridiculous save in one of his first games for City. Kind of summed up the difference in which the English media, in particular, viewed the two players. Mignolet is a super signing and, like you say, hopefully Westwood is highly enough regarded that they won't go seeking a replacement.

[Charlie Darwin]

Reina has always had a few errors in him, but he's vital to the way Liverpool play football, similar to the equally error-prone Valdes at Barcelona. I would be reasonably confident that the rumours of Reina returning to Catalunya will turn out to be right.

[DeLorean]

How is he vital to the way Liverpool play football?

Yeah it seems fairly probably that he'll be replacing Valdes alright.

[KK77]

Reina's been shocking for a number of years at this stage. He was overrated at his best anyway in my opinion, reasonably safe at his peak but not world class. I remember he won save of the season one year for a pretty basic stop against Boro (I think). It was the same season that Given made a ridiculous save in one of his first games for City. Kind of summed up the difference in which the English media, in particular, viewed the two players. Mignolet is a super signing and, like you say, hopefully Westwood is highly enough regarded that they won't go seeking a replacement.

I wouldn't have said he was world class either but overall he has proved to be a good signing. Yes he has made mistakes the last few seasons no doubts about it. Can't remember either save myself but yes Given was a great shot stopper.

[peadar1987]

How is he vital to the way Liverpool play football?

Yeah it seems fairly probably that he'll be replacing Valdes alright.

A goalkeeper is vital to the way most modern sides play football

[Charlie Darwin]

How is he vital to the way Liverpool play football?

Yeah it seems fairly probably that he'll be replacing Valdes alright.
His distribution sets the tone and tempo for Liverpool's game.

[DeLorean]

Oh I know... I meant specifically to Liverpool. It could be argued that that every goalkeeper sets the tone and tempo, be it good or bad. Knowing when to throw the ball out quickly, knowing when to kick long, knowing when to slow it down... don't think it's rocket science really to be honest and once a keeper is good at keeping the ball out of the net, organising and dealing with crosses the rest should be easily learned.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ok, well his distribution sets the tone for Liverpool's play in a good way. A less tactically aware and technically gifted goalkeeper would stunt Liverpool's play at source.

[DeLorean]

Are there any (many) goalkeepers that you feel stunt their teams play at the source?

I do agree that Reina is very decisive in choosing the right option, as soon as he comes into possession of the football (as Kenny Cunningham might say). He is a 'look at me' type though so probably appears more eager than most other goalkeepers to make something happen when he gets it. He runs the length of the pitch on occasion to celebrate with the other players and even made a decent fist of being the centre of attention after Spain's World Cup win (John Terry style!). I feel that the likes of Cech kick the ball long, or get a counter attack going just as effectively, without it being as obvious. What I'm trying to get at, badly I admit, is that I think he does things in a more dramatic way and is therefore more noticeable. That's not to say he doesn't do them well.

Maybe I'm being naive but I don't think Liverpool will find these attributes difficult to replace.

[Charlie Darwin]

Almunia is one who always stood out for me. The goalkeeper has to be on the same wavelength as the rest of the players and then he has to be capable of choosing the right option, when to speed the game up and when to slow it down. It's a skill in itself. I'm sure there are other keepers who can do it, but if you have a keeper who doesn't always look for the options as soon as he gets the ball, who isn't comfortable with the kick throw or with passing the ball under pressure, you have to adapt your style of accommodate that.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think much of Dermot Desmond's disguise

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23297785

[ArdeeBhoy]

Too much hair dye...

[Closed Account 2]

I don't think much of Dermot Desmond's disguise

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23297785

Ron Jeremy...

If people dont know who that is, I probably wouldnt look it up on google images at work.

[passinginterest]

Foot.ie fantasy league renewed for the new season if you want to get involved. http://fantasy.premierleague.com/ League name Foot.ie and code is 283187-75020

[culloty82]

To add a bit of extra spice, I've added a head-to-head league, code is 138130-301443

[OwlsFan]

So forecasts:

Champions: Man City
CL: Man U, Chelsea, Spurs

Relegated: Norwich, Hull, Crystal Palace

[geysir]

So forecasts:

Champions: Man City
CL: Man U, Chelsea, Spurs

Relegated: Norwich, Hull, Crystal Palace

There's a very remote chance that Norwich will find themselves relegated.

1 Man City 2. Chelsea. 3 Man United

[Stuttgart88]

What did people think of Torres's "dive" for the free that led to Lampard's goal today? I though he had no choice but to leap over the outstretched leg. If he didn't it was a certain foul, so in my book it's a free all day long. Every pundit I've heard has called it a dive.

I was listening to 5 Live yesterday and they were outraged by the Kocielny penalty. I thought it looked like a penalty and certainly wasn't the grave error the commentators were calling it.

Wrt Arsenal I think most pundits are missing the point. It's not just that they're not spending money, it's that Wenger's blind spots are still very evident. Mignonelet, Guzan and Begovic were all superb last season yet he persists with the error prone Sczezny. He plays without a ball winner in midfield and they lack incision despite lots of possession. Centre back is a frequent problem area and they are a way behind the top 3 in that department. More than anything else, they're just not streetwise. They get "mugged" more often than any of the top (ish) teams.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Some good points, but 'Chesney' isn't the main problem IMO. Though he doesn't help.
Arse. are lacking a leader on the pitch, as in a centre-back, holding midfielder as you say and a predatory striker or two capable of getting 30 goals a season.

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't say Szczesny is any more error-prone than Mignolet. In fact, I'd say he's not the problem at all. The Arsenal defence is pretty miserly most of the time, but they tend to concede goals at crucial times and in bigger games.

[DannyInvincible]

I was listening to 5 Live yesterday and they were outraged by the Kocielny penalty. I thought it looked like a penalty and certainly wasn't the grave error the commentators were calling it.

Agreed. If I was the ref, I think I would have awarded the penalty. Koscielny may have made contact with the ball, eventually, but he also took his man down. In fact, his "trailing" right leg makes contact and trips Agbonlahor before his left foot makes any contact with the ball. You can watch it again here from about 04:30 with slow-mo replays:
http://rutube.ru/video/34d0b97832cd0bf14fcb2fd1e4555ca2/

Essentially, he's gone through his man, or scissor-tackled him, and that's a foul, no?

I note that the ref, Anthony Taylor, has not been chosen by the FA to officiate any of this weekend's fixtures. The media are reporting that he has been "dropped" due to his performance last weekend, although I don't think the FA have confirmed any reasoning. Is it usual that a ref would be given a break or is such indicative of "punishment"?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes Danny. Once a month or so?

And a harsh penalty IMO. Borderline.

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't say Szczesny is any more error-prone than Mignolet. In fact, I'd say he's not the problem at all. The Arsenal defence is pretty miserly most of the time, but they tend to concede goals at crucial times and in bigger games.
He was very impressive at Fulham yesterday.

[OwlsFan]

Watched the Manchester derby today. Not everyday you see a Man U team outplayed by another "English" side. The interviews after the game were with an Italian, a Scotsman and a Serb. I missed the Man City player interview but I suspect it was with an African. I actually put down the paper and paid attention to it ! Chose that over the GAA Final. I like hurling but not the football.

[geysir]

He's not a biter, just a scratcher, so relax folks it's all kosher.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70237000/jpg/_70237117_70236901.jpg

[OwlsFan]

I think Torres really got up his nose.

I read in a British paper today that Neil Kinnock (one time leader of the Labour party and a Welshman) was made change seats at a Fulham game recently because he offended the locals by celebrating too much when Cardiff scored at Craven Cottage. No hope if there has to be segregation of fans even at Fulham where the opposition fans are known to chant "you only sing when you're rowing" and "does your butler know you're here?".

[Stuttgart88]

Only Mourinho could make Chelsea's last minute winner today all about him. If I was a Chelsea fan I'd see straight through his me feinism and see how he's trying to cultivate this cult-like status among his followers. I'd love to hear a psychologist's take on it and about whether he's got some genuine narcissistic problems.

After some great games, great goals and great skills in the EPL this week the most pertinent image of this week for me is that vain prat trying to get all the attention.

[OwlsFan]

There's a very remote chance that Norwich will find themselves relegated.

Still think it's remote?

[geysir]

Still think it's remote?
Of course. They have a reasonably good squad, players just coming back into the team from injury and are a better team than the teams who are likely to be relegation fodder. They hammered Cardiff last Saturday, did everything but score. They rest 7 or 8 players for a league cup game against an almost full strength Man U, get well beaten and you come back here expecting that a reasoned well thought out opinion would change after that? How easily you must shirk a bit of a challenge, legs of jelly.:D

[DannyInvincible]

The Sun with some insightful analysis as it breaks down its chosen "move of the match" from yesterday's game between Stoke and Southampton:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYJ2tc_IMAAONvM.jpg

[Stuttgart88]

Szczesny has been impressing me again. A big month ahead for Arsenal. I don't think they'll win the league, maybe 3rd, but if they can stay ahead by end-December and use the January window well, who knows?

They could very easily get knocked out of Europe very soon.

[Charlie Darwin]

It beggars belief how anybody could have doubted Szczesny. He's a young keeper and is bound to make mistakes but clearly he has all the attributes to be a great player.

[Stuttgart88]

I doubted him! Not because of his ability - which was obvious - but because of his decision making. I've often seen young keepers prone to ill-judged mad dashes off their line remain prone to the same mistake through their careers.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Arse fans.will tell you he's not the problem but their dodgy centre-backs and lack of strikers/decent squad players. Which I suppose includes decent keeper back-up.

[OwlsFan]

Of course. They have a reasonably good squad, players just coming back into the team from injury and are a better team than the teams who are likely to be relegation fodder. They hammered Cardiff last Saturday, did everything but score. They rest 7 or 8 players for a league cup game against an almost full strength Man U, get well beaten and you come back here expecting that a reasoned well thought out opinion would change after that? How easily you must shirk a bit of a challenge, legs of jelly.:D

I'd say it's Chris H with the knees of jelly at the moment :(

[Charlie Darwin]

I doubted him! Not because of his ability - which was obvious - but because of his decision making. I've often seen young keepers prone to ill-judged mad dashes off their line remain prone to the same mistake through their careers.
I'd prefer a young keeper with all the ability but who makes rash decisions to a young keeper who has average skills but makes good decisions. You can coach out bad decision-making but you can't make an average goalkeeper great.

[Stuttgart88]

Only to an extent. It's like outfield players who might have great skills but bad decision making and an inability to tell the right pass. You can't always teach game intelligence and some keepers keep on making the same errors in judgment. Some learn, some don't.

[OwlsFan]

Saw Moyes on TV following the League Cup Final defeat. Usual stuff blaming the referee and it's got to "the stage now where we are laughing at the decisions". The penalty given looked like a peno to me and the free kick leading up to the first goal also seemed to be the correct decision. Trying to keep in with the fans by saying how great they were. No chance of him being sacked so long as the supporters keep the faith. They are also in the Champions League and who knows what might happen.

If anything emphasised that the League Cup is a dead competition was the empty seats in Sunderland in a cup-semi final against Man U. Unbelievable.

[BonnieShels]

Saw Moyes on TV following the League Cup Final defeat. Usual stuff blaming the referee and it's got to "the stage now where we are laughing at the decisions". The penalty given looked like a peno to me and the free kick leading up to the first goal also seemed to be the correct decision. Trying to keep in with the fans by saying how great they were. No chance of him being sacked so long as the supporters keep the faith. They are also in the Champions League and who knows what might happen.

If anything emphasised that the League Cup is a dead competition was the empty seats in Sunderland in a cup-semi final against Man U. Unbelievable.

For me over the past few seasons the League Cup has been far and away the better competition over say the FA Cup.

I think United not being a particularly attractive prospect at the minute would have driven the crowds down. Fans are that fickle as you know.

Also temperatures of about 6-7 degrees on a Tuesday in early January may not have helped either.

[OwlsFan]

Only caught the extra time in the game last night. Man U leading 1-0 and ready to go through on away goal rule when in the last minute Man U keeper makes a terrrible gaff and Sunderland are through but are they? United go back up the pitch and score. Incredible stuff. 3-3 on agggregate and so to penalties. Momentum with United you would thhink as Sunderland miss their first penalty and.....ends up 2-1 to Sunderland on penalties (3 scored out of 10). Next time I hear Moyes grumbling about not being awarded a penalty he might reflect on the fact that they can only score 1 out of 5.

Delighted for Sunderland (and O'Shea) despite the apathy of their fans in the first leg. United fans brought up on an expectation of winning games and trophies now have to see how the other half lives.

Great entertainment that extra time and penalties. As Chris Kamara would say "Unbelievable Jeff".

[Sleepingpartner]

Reasonably amusing. Audio version.
http://balls.ie/football/drunk-man-united-fan-rings-999-demands-speak-alex-ferguson/

[OwlsFan]

Did anyone else who was watching the most one sided EPL game I have ever seen between Man U and Fulham last weekend hear both Martin Tyler and Gary Neville groan as Fulham equalised. Whatever about Neville, I was surprised by Tyler who in the Sky way of things should have been screaming at the top of his voice. In the game Man U had 84 crosses in to the box compared to Fulham's 4. The latter couldn't hold on to the ball for more than 4 passes and yet they scored twice. A really bizarre game.

[OwlsFan]

Is football no longer about trying to win trophies? Southampton - they won't be relegated and the best they can do is qualify for the Europa League in which they will play their reserve side. They had a great chance to get through to the last 8 of the FA Cup by winning against a reserve Sunderland team. So what do they do? They change about half the side from their strongest 11. I just don't understand it. Gubu (apart from the last u).

[Stuttgart88]

It's been like that for years now, sadly.

[OwlsFan]

While still not recovered from losing at home to Charlton and thus miss out on a last 8 clash with Sheff Utd, I have to congratulate Wigan for winning away at Manchester City. That game just shows that if the better sides are "not up for it", there is always the chance of a surprise result (Ireland please note for our trip to Germany). In the rugby, Ireland were focused for the game against Italy and wanted to win and win well which they did but any we just have to turn up to win mentality often backfires in sport.

I liked Myler's goal celebration against Sunderland - head butting the corner flag. He obviously has a sense of humour. Wonder what the odds were on Hull, Sheff U and Wigan making the cup semi-final? Must be Arsenal's year or......

[Stuttgart88]

Well said.

I don't have faith in Arsenal's ability not to presume they have one foot in the final. They have a habit of getting ambushed by lesser teams on big occasions. If they field their strongest XI (almost a definite) and play from the start I think they'll be too strong. But that's a big if for them.

[Stuttgart88]

United's decline is remarkable. They were a disorganised rabble today and even their experienced players looked lost. Liverpool played well but I still don't think they're that good. They got gifted their lead without having to really work for it.

United's game against Olympiakos will be interesting. Are they beyond salvaging?

[CraftyToePoke]

United's decline is remarkable. They were a disorganised rabble today and even their experienced players looked lost. Liverpool played well but I still don't think they're that good. They got gifted their lead without having to really work for it.

United's game against Olympiakos will be interesting. Are they beyond salvaging?

It's certainly fascinating to watch alright, I was 10 when Ferguson took over there in '86, all before Gary McKay's goal and Euro '88 when I really caught the soccer bug so I don't really remember a time in my life when they were not dominant, it doesn't compute somehow, seeing them in what increasingly looks like a decline and not just a transition. There are so many voices saying they didn't strengthen, but equally those players were champions at a canter last season, so they need to decide if the man in charge can be trusted to spend or not. Another change too soon, and they will be just another club on the lucky dip managerial lottery circuit.