Respect for Mr Trapattoni please

[ArdeeBhoy]

I also think AB, despite some inane nonsense posted recently, is right to say that even if Trap had every player in Europe to choose from, he'd still play conservatively. That's the way he is. I don't think conservatism will get 4 or 6 points in September, we need to be bold - but not foolhardy.

A bit harsh. Just not up myself like certain people are prone to be.

Anyway, we mainly agree. Which is the main thing.

[back of the net]

[QUOTE=paul_oshea;1693375]He has won a reprieve or extended his stay more like, if he gets 6 in september then I think we can agree with his methods. QUOTE]

He may have won temporary reprieve , but 6 points or not in September, his methods are still going to be outdated and will eventually cost us dearly

[paul_oshea]

Stutts you said the Long call was just and right because Long is petulant and was on a yellow? Have you changed your tune on that one?

[paul_oshea]

[QUOTE=paul_oshea;1693375]He has won a reprieve or extended his stay more like, if he gets 6 in september then I think we can agree with his methods. QUOTE]

He may have won temporary reprieve , but 6 points or not in September, his methods are still going to be outdated and will eventually cost us dearly

They already did last year. I think that is the frustrating part, but I think , although it wont happen, if we made the world cup we would perform better with the current crop than we did with the euros crop.

[Stuttgart88]

Stutts you said the Long call was just and right because Long is petulant and was on a yellow? Have you changed your tune on that one?I can't remember what I said, but I think he took Long off because he was petulant. I'm not saying he left Sammon on instead of Long for tactical reasons. I think he should have just told Long to cop himself on. That's what managers are supposed to do. Regardless, I would not have left Sammon on as he was contributing nothing and Austria's resurgence actually had its roots in their defenders having it too easy.

[Stuttgart88]

A bit harsh. Just not up myself like certain people are prone to be.Saying bennocelt has a point when he blatantly didn't? Wasting a post saying Osarusan was saying the same thing twice, when he wasn't. And so on...

Just like this is a waste of a post I suppose but inane nonsense is a pretty fair description of some posts on here recently. It's a shame if you see people making rational arguments as being self-indulgent, whereas nitpicking on minutiae isn't. I don't agree.

[Stuttgart88]

where have I said it was a barnstorming performance? for about 20mins of the game I thought we could push on and win by a couple and for 20mins, particularly early on, i thought we might get a good beating. the rest of the game was the usual fine line of success / failure fare that we have served up for years now.

my post was in response to the all too common assertion that our woes are always down to the manager. its all "if trap gets the points" and "if trap picks the right players". i was merely pointing out that no manager can plan for what Clark did on the edge of his own box or the fact that Alaba was given too much room to get his shot off. the players count too
I agree. Of course Trap can't be blamed for individual mistakes but I just think that he was culpable for the second goal for not responding to how the game had changed after our bright start to the second half. failure to close down can't just be isolated, it's got to be seen in the context that Alaba & co. had been given room for quite a while before that. the more room they're given the more they'll go looking for and they were getting progressively closer.

Even if we'd got away with it I'd have been reluctant to give too much credit to Trap for the win. It doesn't follow in my mind that win = manager good, lose = manager bad (nor am I saying that's what you think). There's room for qualified opinion in all scenarios. My qualified opinion is that the manager had a mare in that game, the players were good for decent parts of the game but also failed when it really counted, at both ends.

[paul_oshea]

I can't remember what I said, but I think he took Long off because he was petulant. I'm not saying he left Sammon on instead of Long for tactical reasons. I think he should have just told Long to cop himself on. That's what managers are supposed to do. Regardless, I would not have left Sammon on as he was contributing nothing and Austria's resurgence actually had its roots in their defenders having it too easy.

That's what I thought at the time and posted here, but I thought you had said he was right to take Long off. You're the one with the flawless memory you should remember ;)

[paul_oshea]

Its funny how the Trap brigade go on about everyone else saying that its Trap, and not the players and all this, don't give an inch on Trap himself. Those of us who are seen as anti-trap are seen as though we don't give an inch, where that is not true at all, we are willing to cede ground where improvements have been made, pointing out where trap needs to change is hardly a stance of being anti-trap no matter what. I think those who are so quick to defend him need to see the wood from the trees - in the sense of our arguments.

[Charlie Darwin]

I can't remember what I said, but I think he took Long off because he was petulant. I'm not saying he left Sammon on instead of Long for tactical reasons. I think he should have just told Long to cop himself on. That's what managers are supposed to do. Regardless, I would not have left Sammon on as he was contributing nothing and Austria's resurgence actually had its roots in their defenders having it too easy.
I'd imagine Trap's decision was influenced by a similar situation against Macedonia when Doyle was on a yellow at 2-1 and got himself sent off, something I think everybody saw coming for about 20 minutes beforehand. Long was very much in the same state of mind.

[jbyrne]

Its funny how the Trap brigade go on about everyone else saying that its Trap, and not the players and all this, don't give an inch on Trap himself. Those of us who are seen as anti-trap are seen as though we don't give an inch, where that is not true at all, we are willing to cede ground where improvements have been made, pointing out where trap needs to change is hardly a stance of being anti-trap no matter what. I think those who are so quick to defend him need to see the wood from the trees - in the sense of our arguments.

as one of the pro-trap group I have also been critical, be it here or elsewhere, of some of his decisions / selection policies. i have been critical of him before for playing his wide men on their unfavoured side for whatever reason he does it for example.

however, my support of trap is based a lot on the fact that whatever follows him will probably bring us back to the 2002 to 2008 era when I believe better squads achieved far less than traps have. i also believe that many anti-trap posters believe our squad quality is far better than it is and blame all / most of our woes on him rather unfairly.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd imagine Trap's decision was influenced by a similar situation against Macedonia when Doyle was on a yellow at 2-1 and got himself sent off, something I think everybody saw coming for about 20 minutes beforehand. Long was very much in the same state of mind.

Yes, he was. We've all been over this a dozen times though. The situation at hand demanded something very different to what Trap actually did. Trap was maybe influenced by other home performances where we've given up a lot of ground and chances and got away with it, thinking we'd simply get away with it again.

Anyway, thinking of Austria again is making me angry! I have given credit to Trap for what happened subsequently and I'm cautiously optimistic about September. If he doesn't budge an inch from how he has approached other games this optimism would decline, but I think he will be willing to adapt a little bit. I do think that there are wild cards like Pilkington and Brady that will come into the equation, as well as Hoolahan even if only as sub.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Saying bennocelt has a point when he blatantly didn't? Wasting a post saying Osarusan was saying the same thing twice, when he wasn't. And so on...

Just like this is a waste of a post I suppose but inane nonsense is a pretty fair description of some posts on here recently. It's a shame if you see people making rational arguments as being self-indulgent, whereas nitpicking on minutiae isn't. I don't agree.

Hang on, if anyone's nitpicking it's not me...
:rolleyes:

As for being 'inane', who are we to judge others...
Also sometimes the arguments aren't overly 'rational', not yours especially btw.

[paul_oshea]

What do you mean by "not yours especially btw"?

[Stuttgart88]

Whatever. I've obviously deluded myself as to the rationality of my posts. I don't expect people to agree with me, but I try to make points that can actually be subjected to scrutiny and which are as objective as any fan's comments can be expected to be. I think I usually only lose my rationality when I get wound up. Let's move on.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fine by me. Like I said, we appear to mainly agree.
As per #47.

[Crosby87]

You guys should have a weekly hour call in radio show on satellite radio.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Surely 5 minutes would be enough, if you believe some on here.
;)

NB. NOT a go at any individual, in case anyone gets the wrong end...

[CraftyToePoke]

Trap has riled up the good folk out Derby way now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23002807

[back of the net]

Trap has riled up the good folk out Derby way now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23002807

Another Club marked off his long list

[CraftyToePoke]

Another Club marked off his long list

It's funny really, unless of course you are connected to Derby, looking back at it, basically said, I can't believe Sammon & Hendrick play for Derby cos they are actually quite good.

[Charlie Darwin]

He said they should be playing in a higher league. Only somebody who's trying very hard to be offended would take that as anything other than a compliment to the players involved.

[DeLorean]

Agreed. Any Derby pretty much took it in that way too despite the slightly misleading headline.

[gustavo]

Came here to say what you said Charlie. Can't see how they could get offended at that.

[Crosby87]

For some reason i was surprised to find that nigel clough was capped by England 14 times in the early 90s.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Wasn't that for Forest though?

And even more of a tangent;once broke down on the way to a stag do in a car of which the same N.Clough had been the previous owner of...

[Crosby87]

You mean Jon Voight? :eek:

Off topic but here is a good "stag situation", funny you mention that word while i am reading it. This blurb oddly made the paper here this morning from Reuters:

A brawl in Ireland among two women brought out a few slack jawed yokels as if it were a stag party.
The two ladies, who were both said to be generously endowed, got into a fist fight with one another in the early morning outside a school they had just dropped their children off at in the rural Irish village of Doon. As the rest of the parents looked on in shock, the fight escalated into the tearing off of clothes, and soon the two women were topless. "Me and a few other Dad's were going to break it up and then the clothes started getting ripped off and we thought let's give it a minute." Said one man sheepishly. "The fathers who had just dropped their kids off wouldn't do anything. They were enjoying the action." Fumed a woman who said she urged the men to break the fight up. "You know how women fight," said another smiling father, "they tear and rip at things, and they had loose clothing on, and one thing led to another...."
As authorities arrived, the two women spilled over into a large mud pile and were soon stark naked. "My wife is not going to be happy but it was like watching two strippers in the mud," Said a man who asked not to be identified, "But how this can happen just outside the school is beyond me but it was quite a sight." Authorities arrested the women when they finally got them seperated, as school staff scrambled to find something to put over them as they lay naked and mud covered in handcuffs, torn clothes about. The charges were pending the Village said.

HA! Can honestly say i have never heard of Doon.

[osarusan]

This documentary is on Japanese TV right now. Trap doesn't come across as a very humble person, in my opinion, but watch for yourself.

His tenure as Irish manager is briefly included also, ending with Ireland hoping to qualify for Euro 2012.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pAt2WUlKyQ

[tetsujin1979]

You mean Jon Voight? :eek:

Off topic but here is a good "stag situation", funny you mention that word while i am reading it. This blurb oddly made the paper here this morning from Reuters:

A brawl in Ireland among two women brought out a few slack jawed yokels as if it were a stag party.
The two ladies, who were both said to be generously endowed, got into a fist fight with one another in the early morning outside a school they had just dropped their children off at in the rural Irish village of Doon. As the rest of the parents looked on in shock, the fight escalated into the tearing off of clothes, and soon the two women were topless. "Me and a few other Dad's were going to break it up and then the clothes started getting ripped off and we thought let's give it a minute." Said one man sheepishly. "The fathers who had just dropped their kids off wouldn't do anything. They were enjoying the action." Fumed a woman who said she urged the men to break the fight up. "You know how women fight," said another smiling father, "they tear and rip at things, and they had loose clothing on, and one thing led to another...."
As authorities arrived, the two women spilled over into a large mud pile and were soon stark naked. "My wife is not going to be happy but it was like watching two strippers in the mud," Said a man who asked not to be identified, "But how this can happen just outside the school is beyond me but it was quite a sight." Authorities arrested the women when they finally got them seperated, as school staff scrambled to find something to put over them as they lay naked and mud covered in handcuffs, torn clothes about. The charges were pending the Village said.

HA! Can honestly say i have never heard of Doon. Doon disco would be well known in Limerick

[Fixer82]

Does anyone think we'd be doing worse as a footballing nation without Trap?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Or the small matter of 2-5 in Cyprus.

Trap has undoubtedly helped us defensively, but that's not the main bone of contention...

[Crosby87]

Are Tahiti going to put up a fight vs Uruguay today?
Stutts is looking to win a few quid. I may follow suit.

[tetsujin1979]

Some reckon if we played a more up tempo style we would be a very tough out.
But others point out that the Stan years are ancient history to some on foot.ie! Peeps don't remember how we lost to Wales on 24/03/07 or that miserable draw with the mighty Cypridiots on 17/10/07.
to be fair, there is a really good reason why they don't remember that loss

[DannyInvincible]

to be fair, there is a really good reason why they don't remember that loss

Is it still a loss if it only happened in Crosby's parallel universe?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Depends on the quality of the, er, 'green' ​?

[Crosby87]

Was I wrong? Scroll down on here.
http://www.soccer-ireland.com/irish-soccer-managers/steve-staunton.htm

[tetsujin1979]

Was I wrong? Scroll down on here.
http://www.soccer-ireland.com/irish-soccer-managers/steve-staunton.htm
I see what you mean
but maybe you should have a look at these
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/mar/25/newsstory.walesfootballteam
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/6439991.stm
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2008/matches/round=2241/match=83635/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOkX58gChqQ
etc

[Closed Account]

Peeps don't remember how we lost to Wales on 24/03/07 or that miserable draw with the mighty Cypridiots on 17/10/07.


Was I wrong? Scroll down on here.
http://www.soccer-ireland.com/irish-soccer-managers/steve-staunton.htm

Wales 1:0 (1:0) Ireland 24/03/2007 Dublin 2008 Euro Qualifier
I think you should quit while you're far behind but within recovery distance....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Honestly Crosby, it wasn't a great game but we did win. Was there myself.
Some fella called Stephen Ireland scored!

[Crosby87]

Very well. I withdraw my comments.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, that link you posted have their results listed very oddly.

[Sullivinho]

I, for one, applaud Crosby's stubborn refusal to recognise Stephen Ireland's existence and deeds.

[Crosby87]

It's Sunday. My brain is worse than usual. I seem to remember having to listen to an Ireland Wales game on the radio through the computer, lying in bed and Ireland losing. Bellamy scored maybe? Did that ever happen or am i completely retarded?

[Grafter]

It's Sunday. My brain is worse than usual. I seem to remember having to listen to an Ireland Wales game on the radio through the computer, lying in bed and Ireland losing. Bellamy scored maybe? Did that ever happen or am i completely retarded?

Never happened, Bellamy never scored against us....

Likely thinking Nov 2007 2-2 draw in Wales....
Koumas scored twice and Wales went ahead through him not Bellamy...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/league_of_wales/7099901.stm