Explosive comments from Stephen Kelly

[tommy_c12000]

Piece in Irish Examiner by Miguel Delaney about all the players Trapattoni fell out with over his tenure: Stephen Ireland, Andy Reid, Steven Reid, James McCarthy, Marc Wilson, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, James McClean, Shane Long, Stephen Kelly. Now we just need Trap to fall out with one more player (preferably a goalkeeper) and we could have a serious team on our hands. This is how I would line them up:

.......ANother(inevitable)

S Reid....Kelly....Wilson....Foley

Ireland..McCarthy..Gibson..McClean
...................A Reid

...................Long

Strong team on paper. Not ideal having Foley on the left but think Wilson is required in the centre given our paucity for options here. The 3-man midfield with Reid playing in an advanced role supporting Long certainly looks solid. Ireland has a tendency to get lost out on the wing but he can have a licence to tuck inside whenever he pleases. McClean will certainly give us the width on the other flank. Only problem is our goalkeeper . . . . this position continues to be worrisome . . . .

[Sullivinho]

Dean Kiely's your man, tommy. (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0601/1224247818005.html)

[Park_Lane]

Piece in Irish Examiner by Miguel Delaney about all the players Trapattoni fell out with over his tenure: Stephen Ireland, Andy Reid, Steven Reid, James McCarthy, Marc Wilson, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, James McClean, Shane Long, Stephen Kelly. Now we just need Trap to fall out with one more player (preferably a goalkeeper) and we could have a serious team on our hands. This is how I would line them up:

.......ANother(inevitable)

S Reid....Kelly....Wilson....Foley

Ireland..McCarthy..Gibson..McClean
...................A Reid

...................Long

Strong team on paper. Not ideal having Foley on the left but think Wilson is required in the centre given our paucity for options here. The 3-man midfield with Reid playing in an advanced role supporting Long certainly looks solid. Ireland has a tendency to get lost out on the wing but he can have a licence to tuck inside whenever he pleases. McClean will certainly give us the width on the other flank. Only problem is our goalkeeper . . . . this position continues to be worrisome . . . .
Dean Kiely could of done a job a few years ago...

[NeverFeltBetter]

You don't need a newspaper to understand that Trap's has a truly awful record when it comes to this kind of stuff. People like Gibson pretty much brought it on themselves, but Kelly, Foley?

[ArdeeBhoy]

In, erm, Trap's 'defence' didn't Steven Reid retire from international football, due to injury issues?
That's his stock answer, every time the subject comes up when he features as a radio pundit...


Plus Long and McClean are in the current squad, so how do they 'count' in this respect?

[Spudulika]

In, erm, Trap's 'defence' didn't Steven Reid retire from international football, due to injury issues?
That's his stock answer, every time the subject comes up when he features as a radio pundit...


Plus Long and McClean are in the current squad, so how do they 'count' in this respect?

It doesn't count AB, it is all about selling papers and feeding the beast. It will be extremely hard to get a manager of any decent worth when the current one goes as they'd need to have some screws loose to take on the Irish job, even at the salary.

[paul_oshea]

The meejahideen.

[p2011]

Again, let's leave the media out of it. A media campaign is no reason to dismiss criticism of Trap, that's lazy thinking.
And anyway, acompetent manager should be able to handle/ignore the media and not feed it/react to it like Trap has been doing for years.
People on here always refer to his pedigree /results but forget his last jobs in Stuttgart and Salzburg weren't exactly successful.

[IsMiseSean]

People on here always refer to his pedigree /results but forget his last jobs in Stuttgart and Salzburg weren't exactly successful.

Did he not win the league with Salzburg?

[BonnieShels]

And Benfica 2 years before that.

[p2011]

It seems to be a regular occurence here that if you post and make two or three points, somebody will hop on half of the most minor of those points and try to pick it apart, ignoring what the main gist of the discussion is. I was making the point that "it's all a media campaign" might be true, but it is still no excuse for not critically examining what effect Trap is having at the moment.

Yes, of course he one a league at Salzburg. Anyone can google that. He was brought to an artificial moneybags club to get them far in Europe and didn't do that. He also won one league in two years, which wasn't good enough with the $$$ on offer, and the Austrian league is hardly strong. His time at Salzburg was thus not a great success, and his job before that in Stuttgart was a disaster.

[BonnieShels]

It seems to be a regular occurence here that if you post and make two or three points, somebody will hop on half of the most minor of those points and try to pick it apart, ignoring what the main gist of the discussion is. I was making the point that "it's all a media campaign" might be true, but it is still no excuse for not critically examining what effect Trap is having at the moment.

Yes, of course he one a league at Salzburg. Anyone can google that. He was brought to an artificial moneybags club to get them far in Europe and didn't do that. He also won one league in two years, which wasn't good enough with the $$$ on offer, and the Austrian league is hardly strong. His time at Salzburg was thus not a great success, and his job before that in Stuttgart was a disaster.

At the same time his successors haven't been up to much with Salzburg either. Dudelange anyone?
I think you can only judge a league's difficulty in the context of that league.

Fwiw I'm with you re Trap. I think he should go now. The last few months with the fallings out and the bizarre selections (Conor Sammon)

He steadied the ship after Staunton and got us to the Euros, and while that wasn't a complete success at least he got us to a tournament for the first time in a decade.

We have some good players capable of playing some good football. We need to use them properly or we will languish where we are for the forseeable.

[IsMiseSean]

Yes, of course he one a league at Salzburg. Anyone can google that. He was brought to an artificial moneybags club to get them far in Europe and didn't do that. He also won one league in two years, which wasn't good enough with the $$$ on offer, and the Austrian league is hardly strong. His time at Salzburg was thus not a great success, and his job before that in Stuttgart was a disaster.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but you can't call Trap's reign at Salzburg 'unsuccessful' when he won a league title.
I think Trap is having a negative affect on the team and constant falling out with players isn't ideal but I'm prepared to back him until I see what happens next month.

[DannyInvincible]

It seems to be a regular occurence here that if you post and make two or three points, somebody will hop on half of the most minor of those points and try to pick it apart, ignoring what the main gist of the discussion is. I was making the point that "it's all a media campaign" might be true, but it is still no excuse for not critically examining what effect Trap is having at the moment.

It's a discussion board. Points - be they minor or fundamental to the general gist - are evaluated and re-evaluated, which is all part of any thorough critical examination in an effort to get a bit closer to the truth of the matter. Strong arguments will be able to withstand "petty" criticisms and shouldn't have to rely on exaggerations and inaccuracies.

[Closed Account 2]

I think that campaign was Israel's high water mark, they were unbeaten v France and v Switzerland if I remember correctly. Switzerland were very very solid back then and regularly qualified. And France went on to the World up final that campaign.

I think Kerr's WC2006 group was significantly harder than Trap's two full campaigns. I don't see how anyone could doubt that, particularly the Euro2012 group. Comparing the teams' FIFA rankings at the times would give an objective measure,if someone looked it up.

Kerr's group (draw seedings in brackets):
1st France (Pot 1)
2nd Swiss (Pot 3)
3rd Israel (Pot 4)
4th Ireland (Pot 2)
5th Cyprus (Pot 5)
6th Faeroes (Pot 6)

Out of all the teams in seeding pots 1 & 2 only Belgium did as badly as us (they were also a second seed finishing 4th, behind Serbia, Spain and Bosnia). Again both ourselves and Belgium ended up as 4th seeds in the subsequent draw for Euro 2008.

Traps group (seeding pot at draw in brackets):
1st Russia (1st)
2nd Ireland (3rd)
3rd Armenia (5th)
4th Slovakia (2nd)
5th Macedonia (4th)
6th Andorra (6th)

We were the lowest seeded team to qualifiy for the tournament (Poland and Ukraine excluded since their seedings were skewed through lack of matches and also they didnt technicially qualify either). All 1st seeds qualified, but some 2nd seeds didnt (Swiss, Serbia, Slovakia - all of whom were at the previous WC, Turkey and Romania) and additionally all third seeds who were ranked above us didnt make it (Israel, Finland, Bulgaria, Norway).

It's one thing to slate Trap for bad tactis, negative football and falling out with players, but I don't think you can really fault him in terms of qualification record for 2010 and 2012. In each case he took a 3rd pot team into finishing second which is progess unlike Kerr. Dont forget when the draw was made for the WC 2010 qualifiers we had even slipped below the north in terms of seeding rank. In his two qualification campaigns we only lost twice (home France, home Russia) in 24 games (WC 10+2, Euro 10+2). Contrast that to the previous two campaigns we'd lost 4 times (Kerr: home France, Stan: away Germany, Czechs, Cyprus) in 22 (Kerr 10 Stan 12) against teams that were generally lower seeds than us.

[osarusan]

It's a discussion board. Points - be they minor or fundamental to the general gist - are evaluated and re-evaluated, which is all part of any thorough critical examination in an effort to get a bit closer to the truth of the matter. Strong arguments will be able to withstand "petty" criticisms and shouldn't have to rely on exaggerations and inaccuracies.
It's a discussion board, not a peer-reviewed journal.

Plenty of posters have no interest in getting to the truth on some issues. The notion that anything negative about Trap is part of a media 'agenda' is just one example.

[Bungle]

Kerr's group (draw seedings in brackets):
1st France (Pot 1)
2nd Swiss (Pot 3)
3rd Israel (Pot 4)
4th Ireland (Pot 2)
5th Cyprus (Pot 5)
6th Faeroes (Pot 6)

Out of all the teams in seeding pots 1 & 2 only Belgium did as badly as us (they were also a second seed finishing 4th, behind Serbia, Spain and Bosnia). Again both ourselves and Belgium ended up as 4th seeds in the subsequent draw for Euro 2008.

Traps group (seeding pot at draw in brackets):
1st Russia (1st)
2nd Ireland (3rd)
3rd Armenia (5th)
4th Slovakia (2nd)
5th Macedonia (4th)
6th Andorra (6th)

We were the lowest seeded team to qualifiy for the tournament (Poland and Ukraine excluded since their seedings were skewed through lack of matches and also they didnt technicially qualify either). All 1st seeds qualified, but some 2nd seeds didnt (Swiss, Serbia, Slovakia - all of whom were at the previous WC, Turkey and Romania) and additionally all third seeds who were ranked above us didnt make it (Israel, Finland, Bulgaria, Norway).

It's one thing to slate Trap for bad tactis, negative football and falling out with players, but I don't think you can really fault him in terms of qualification record for 2010 and 2012. In each case he took a 3rd pot team into finishing second which is progess unlike Kerr. Dont forget when the draw was made for the WC 2010 qualifiers we had even slipped below the north in terms of seeding rank. In his two qualification campaigns we only lost twice (home France, home Russia) in 24 games (WC 10+2, Euro 10+2). Contrast that to the previous two campaigns we'd lost 4 times (Kerr: home France, Stan: away Germany, Czechs, Cyprus) in 22 (Kerr 10 Stan 12) against teams that were generally lower seeds than us.

I think it is easy to look back at Brian Kerr's reign with rose tinted glasses, especially since the Euros. On paper, I would agree that Trap has done a far superior job and one qualification and one very cruel miss (WC 2010) point to that. Trap from 2008-2011 definitely did a better job on the whole results wise imo, which is what counts.

However, I don't agree that you could compare the groups that Kerr had for 2006 with what Trap had for Euro 2012. France with Henry and Zidane coming out of retirement were a better side than Russia. Switzerland 2006 were stronger than Slovakia. Israel had a very decent team at the time and were better than Armenia. I reckon Kerr would get us out of the Euro 2012 group. In fairness to Brian, he was unlucky in that it was such a tight group. We should've beaten the Israelis twice and outplayed the French away. He was very unlucky to lose his job after this campaign.

[tetsujin1979]

I think it is easy to look back at Brian Kerr's reign with rose tinted glasses, especially since the Euros. On paper, I would agree that Trap has done a far superior job and one qualification and one very cruel miss (WC 2010) point to that. Trap from 2008-2011 definitely did a better job on the whole results wise imo, which is what counts.

However, I don't agree that you could compare the groups that Kerr had for 2006 with what Trap had for Euro 2012. France with Henry and Zidane coming out of retirement were a better side than Russia. Switzerland 2006 were stronger than Slovakia. Israel had a very decent team at the time and were better than Armenia. I reckon Kerr would get us out of the Euro 2012 group. In fairness to Brian, he was unlucky in that it was such a tight group. We should've beaten the Israelis twice and outplayed the French away. He was very unlucky to lose his job after this campaign.
Kerr had a far better selection of players, in my opinion. Duff and Robbie Keane in their prime, Roy Keane back in the side. Choice of Finnan or Carr for right full. Given at full fitness for the entire qualifiers. We should have beaten Israel twice after going ahead twice, but we didn't. Trapattoni won every game against lower ranked opposition in the European Championship qualifiers. Whatever else you can say about him (and I know plenty will) I think we're better set up under him to win banana-skin games.

As for being unlucky to lose his job, go back and watch the last two games against Cyprus, where we were a penalty save away from drawing, and the final 0-0 against the Swiss. Needing a win, against a team happy to play for a draw, he took off Keane and Morrison and brought on Doherty and Connolly. I'll never understand that. Why persist with 4-4-2, which clearly wasn't working, when a draw was as good as a loss?

[BonnieShels]

There was more to the results in that group that saw Brian losing his job. I think he shoudl have gotten one more campaign. Though 8 years out I think thinking of that Swiss game, still hurts.

[paul_oshea]

i think the question to ask is this:would trap have done better than kerr in thay group?

would kerr have qualified for euro 2012?

[BonnieShels]

He may have defended the leads against Israel which ultimately killed us. But then again we were guilty against Italy in Croker of being stupid.

[Stuttgart88]

If we had drawn with France wouldn't the group have been locked?

[Closed Account 2]

If we had drawn with France wouldn't the group have been locked?

Yeah say we had drawn 1-1 everyone (us, France, Switzerland, Israel, would have been on 18 points (W4 D6 L0)) so it would have come down to:

1.greater number of points obtained in matches between the 4 team (All the same)
2.goal difference in matches between the tied teams (All the same since all draws, so 0)
3.greater number of goals scored in matches between the tied teams - this would have been the key:

France would have 3 goals (one in each of the three away matches none at home),
We would have 5 goals (1 home to France, 2 home to Israel, 1 away to Israel, 1 away to Swiss)
Swiss would have 5 goals (1 in each of the three home, 2 away in Israel)
Israel would have 7 goals (1 home France, 1 home Ireland, 2 home Swiss, 2 away Ireland, 1 away Swiss)

So (assumming we drew 1-1 home to France) Israel would have been top, France out and then ourselves and the Swiss level. Obviously if we had drawn 2-2 at home to France we would have pipped the Swiss. Once we were level with the Swiss it would have gone down to:

4.goal difference in all group matches

The Swiss were +11 and we were +7 overall (+8 if we had drawn 1-1 instead of losing 1-0 home to France), so the Swiss would have pipped us. So a 1-1 with France wouldnt have helped us, we would have needed a 2-2 to go ahead of the Swiss. Of course with a 1-1 vs France, in our final game we could have got a 3-3 with Swiss then both ourselves and the Swiss would have gone ahead of Israel into positions one and two.

[tetsujin1979]

i think the question to ask is this:would trap have done better than kerr in thay group?

would kerr have qualified for euro 2012?
I think Trapattoni would have done better in Kerr's group, he's rarely conceded a lead and beat every team ranked below us in the European Qualifiers, so I'm pretty sure he'd have beaten Israel, at least once. Also, I don't think he'd have made that Keane for Kavanagh subsitution that cost us the win at home. A single win over Israel would have put us into second with 19 points, and the play offs against Turkey. Two wins would have won the group ahead of France.

As for Kerr in the European qualifers, well he never beat a team ranked higher than 84th (Georgia at home) so I guess the home wins over Macedonia and Armenia (ranked 83rd and 44th, respectively, at the time of the games) would have been draws, and the home loss against Russia would have possibly been a draw instead of a loss, so that's -4 points on Trapattoni's results, leaving us on 17 points. Assuming all other results are untouched, we would have finishing in third, behind Armenia in second on 18 points, one more than they actually finished on thanks to the draw in Dublin instead of a loss.

[paul_oshea]

A game where Switzerland had to score would have been interesting.

I think Trap would have done very similar to kerr, but I believe we would have won 1 of those games that we drew. I also believe Kerr would have done similar in the Euro2012 group that Trap did.

He wouldn't have picked andy reid though, the closest to scoring against France at home that night was reid with the free, so he would definitely have not drawn with France :D

Maybe Traps biggest win of all was the away to Armenia. It always had the rest playing catch up(perspective of points gained in Armenia moreso).

I think, in conclusion, I'm suggesting similar managers could have got the results Trap did for the Euros, at a lot less money probably.

[Closed Account 2]

I think a lot of people forget about that match in Yerevan. On paper perhaps Armenia were not that strong, but if you scratch the surface of that team you will find that the goalkeeper and several of the attacking players have all played a considerable number of games in the Russian top flight, and Mkhitaryan is one of the best players at Shakhtar a team that has been getting to the knockout stages of the CL a few times. They might not be one of the strongest teams in Europe, but they are not minnows akin to San Marino or Andorra. We were also playing them on a hot afternoon in the dog days of a warm summer, it was a match in which a lot of our players laboured and struggled, but we held out and were the only team to win in Yerevan that campaign - even Russia only drew there. I think at the very best we might have sneaked a draw there with Kerr in charge.

[Charlie Darwin]

There was more to the results in that group that saw Brian losing his job. I think he shoudl have gotten one more campaign. Though 8 years out I think thinking of that Swiss game, still hurts.
There is a mode of thinking that 4 years (2 tournament cycles) is the maximum for any international manager. Kerr falls slightly in between but it was clear things were stagnating under him. Staunton was a huge step backwards though.

[BonnieShels]

There is a mode of thinking that 4 years (2 tournament cycles) is the maximum for any international manager. Kerr falls slightly in between but it was clear things were stagnating under him. Staunton was a huge step backwards though.

What galled me is that Kerr never got that chance. He took over a doomed campaign in the first instance and we didn't achieve what we should have in the second but it was a tough group as has been mentioned above.

I think if there was a better manager, say a Trap, waiting in the wings then I could see the sense in getting rid, but there wasn't and we ended up with the shoiteshow afterwards.

[Charlie Darwin]

What galled me is that Kerr never got that chance. He took over a doomed campaign in the first instance and we didn't achieve what we should have in the second but it was a tough group as has been mentioned above.

I think if there was a better manager, say a Trap, waiting in the wings then I could see the sense in getting rid, but there wasn't and we ended up with the shoiteshow afterwards.
By all accounts Kerr had lost the dressing room, to use a terrible football cliché. I think he showed enough to suggest he wasn't the man to take the team forward, although Staunton was undoubtedly worse.

[bishbash]

By all accounts Kerr had lost the dressing room, to use a terrible football cliché. I think he showed enough to suggest he wasn't the man to take the team forward, although Staunton was undoubtedly worse.


When cases are made against Trap about upsetting players its said the players need to man up or they are not that good anyway, when in Kerr's case its a legitimate reason to get rid of him.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think a lot of people forget about that match in Yerevan. On paper perhaps Armenia were not that strong, but if you scratch the surface of that team you will find that the goalkeeper and several of the attacking players have all played a considerable number of games in the Russian top flight, and Mkhitaryan is one of the best players at Shakhtar a team that has been getting to the knockout stages of the CL a few times. They might not be one of the strongest teams in Europe, but they are not minnows akin to San Marino or Andorra. We were also playing them on a hot afternoon in the dog days of a warm summer, it was a match in which a lot of our players laboured and struggled, but we held out and were the only team to win in Yerevan that campaign - even Russia only drew there. I think at the very best we might have sneaked a draw there with Kerr in charge.

Hear what you say, but was at that game;Armenia were extremely mediocre and deserved nothing from that match.

It's to their credit that they massively improved over the course of their campaign.

Whilst Ireland probably got worse, in part due to Trap's defensive tactics.

Though Kerr/Staunton would have been worse still...

[tetsujin1979]

When cases are made against Trap about upsetting players its said the players need to man up or they are not that good anyway, when in Kerr's case its a legitimate reason to get rid of him.
Trapattoni has annoyed individual players, Kerr lost the entire team.

[bishbash]

Trapattoni has annoyed individual players, Kerr lost the entire team.

Allegedly.

[elroy]

Wonder will we be saying the same about the Kazak away result as we were/are about the Armenia away result?!?

Not likely im afraid.

Take the performance at the Euros away from Trap, his record is pretty damn good. The reason the Euros was such a disappointment was the incredible unbeaten run we had gone on before that and how we defensively were extremely solid. Both were horribly absent in Poland.

The other big difficulty with Trap is communication and some baffling and rarely justified squad and team selections.

[DannyInvincible]

Ian Harte on the Kelly-Trap disagreement: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trap-shouldve-gone-after-euros-people-need-to-stand-up-to-this-29077137.html


That brings him onto the subject of Stephen Kelly, his new Reading colleague, who felt the force of a public Trapattoni dressing-down in the aftermath of the Poland game earlier this month. With reference to a row ahead of the Faroe Islands game in October, the Italian insinuated that Kelly was seeking demands that he would start before reporting for international duty. It prompted the mild-mannered Dubliner to release a furious statement accusing Trapattoni of defaming his character. The FAI also took a dim view of the manager's comments and Harte is unequivocal on the matter. In his mind, it should be the final straw.

"It's a joke," he says. "I've seen Stephen Kelly's phone, pretty much every one of the Reading lads have seen it, and we're thinking: 'What's going on'? If the press were to see the full text, that would be the end of Trap. That would be the end of Giovanni Trapattoni.

"Stephen has a text from Trapattoni saying, 'We're going to rest you and bring young lads into the squad.'

"Stephen says: 'Well, I'm a bit disappointed, I would love to come over and play in the game, but I understand if you want to do that, you're the manager. I accept your decision. I want to come and play.'

"Stephen was told a young lad would be playing and then he puts Paul McShane at right-back. He (Kelly) is devastated and then the manager comes out and says what he does in the press. It's hard for Stephen to respond because he's pretty much digging his own grave.

"Disagreements happen in dressing-rooms. Players can fall out with managers. People get on the phone or meet up and sort it out, nip it in the bud. It doesn't need to come out in the press. It's forgotten about. But this thing with Stephen? It's crazy.

"Look," he continues, "you look at what Trapattoni has done in his career and all the trophies he's won and you can't question that. It's an amazing record. But we are where we are. That's the past.

"When I was in League One, people weren't talking about the fact I'd played in the Champions League. And I couldn't make an argument for being in the Ireland squad then. Things have changed for me over the past couple of years and you've got to move with the times. He should have gone after Euro 2012 and given someone else a chance, but then I don't know if it would have cost too much money to pay him off. I just think people need to start standing up to this. It's a disgrace what's happening."

[brine3]

The other big difficulty with Trap is communication and some baffling and rarely justified squad and team selections.

Well this is it, would Brian Kerr have picked Darren O'Dea, Paul McShane and Paul Green for the Euro squad ahead of Marc Wilson and Wes Hoolahan?

There's no advantage to Trap being in control of the dressing room if he's picking a Toronto FC defender against Germany.

Marc Wilson has made 72 Premier League appearances for Stoke City in the past three seasons. He has three caps for Ireland. Darren O'Dea has 18 caps for Ireland. It's bizarre.

[tetsujin1979]

Ian Harte on the Kelly-Trap disagreement: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trap-shouldve-gone-after-euros-people-need-to-stand-up-to-this-29077137.html
(http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trap-shouldve-gone-after-euros-people-need-to-stand-up-to-this-29077137.html)
"Stephen has a text from Trapattoni saying, 'We're going to rest you and bring young lads into the squad.'

"Stephen says: 'Well, I'm a bit disappointed, I would love to come over and play in the game, but I understand if you want to do that, you're the manager. I accept your decision. I want to come and play.'

"Stephen was told a young lad would be playing and then he puts Paul McShane at right-back. He (Kelly) is devastated and then the manager comes out and says what he does in the press. It's hard for Stephen to respond because he's pretty much digging his own grave.
Coleman was in the original squad, he was probably going to start at right back.

[Crosby87]

Ultimately what is Traps line of thought here? That he doesn't think Kelly is any good so he can't be bothered to correct the situation? I mean all of this could be solved so easily no?

[brine3]

Ultimately what is Traps line of thought here? That he doesn't think Kelly is any good so he can't be bothered to correct the situation? I mean all of this could be solved so easily no?

kelly ist schwach wie eine flasche leer!

was erlaube kelly!?

[squareball]

I'd be upset too if Paul McShane was picked ahead of me. We can hardly be surprised. Trap has a long history of falling out and publicly abusing players at most of the clubs he has managed. He is a terrible man manager which is very important for a national team coach. He spends very little time with the players yet still has managed to have fallen out with so many of them. I wouldn't blame Stephan Kelly one bit. If it was an isolated incident maybe he would have a case to answer but the fact that Trap has treated many players badly in his time managing Ireland should say it all really.

[DannyInvincible]

I'd be upset too if Paul McShane was picked ahead of me.

Trap's original intention was most likely to give Coleman game-time. After his selection, however, Coleman picked up an injury whilst playing for Everton and had to withdraw from the squad. Am I correct in thinking Trap enquired as to Kelly's availability for the Poland game then? Either way, when the squad was first selected, I don't think it was Trap's intention to give McShane a game at the expense of Kelly, as Ian Harte suggests.

Where do you stand on Gibson taking a huff as a result of Trap's preference for Paul Green at the Euros?

[squareball]

Where do you stand on Gibson taking a huff as a result of Trap's preference for Paul Green at the Euros?

I'd be ****ed off if I was him too. His issue seems to be with the manager not with representing Ireland. Green is pretty rubbish and did very little other than lose possession when he has played for Ireland. I was never Gibson's biggest fan at United but he has improved a lot at Everton. He is very good on the ball and keeps possession well. He may not be the most mobile and this might be Trap's biggest fault in him. Trap tends to go for grafters who are physical and athletic in the middle of the park eg: Green and Andrews.

Kelly should have been given some game time as he is versatile and we are likely to be without Dunne and Sledge for the next competitive games. Trap should have been trying to get as many of his first choice back 4 starting to get used to playing together in a new back-line for the qualifiers rather than experimenting too much. Kelly's experience would have been vital to helping out a defence not used to playing together.

[SkStu]

I was never Gibson's biggest fan at United but he has improved a lot at Everton. He is very good on the ball and keeps possession well. He is very good on the ball and keeps possession well. He may not be the most mobile and this might be Trap's biggest fault in him.

yet he picks Glen Whelan? He looks like he's running barefeet in sand when he plays...

[IsMiseSean]

Green is pretty rubbish and did very little other than lose possession when he has played for Ireland.

In fairness to Green, he done well against Poland when he came on the last night, but I agree he isn't the best...

[Irish_Praha]

I think we have 3 or 4 midfield players who can do a decent job if they have the "right partner" but the "right partner" just hasn't materialised.
In the trap era the best partnership was probably S. Reid and Whelan, which was only for two games and is no conclusive proof that it would be a consistantly good partnership.
However whelan has mostly been muck since then which would suggest that CMF really depends on how well the two players compliment eachother.
As it stands I feel that 2 from Gibson, Meyler, Hendrick and McCarthy would be our best option for a good partnership but none of the four have actually had any decent amount of time together to prove this.
I wouls also add Conor Henderson to that list if he can get going again.
Hopefully we will soon have two decent complimentary CMF players - it would make such a big difference to this team.(most of us have been saying this for more than 5 years now i guess)
Of course if we are going to go for a 5 man MF this would be another story, however we would still need to see which 3 work best together.
I would prefer a 4-1-2-1-2 system myself with the two 1s working together.
Also, please dont forget that I'm drunk now :)

BTW how's MaCaan getting on at Burnly this season?

[Charlie Darwin]

I think we have 3 or 4 midfield players who can do a decent job if they have the "right partner" but the "right partner" just hasn't materialised.
I'd say the concept of the "right partner" is what is holding us back. Modern football is no longer about two-man partnerships anywhere on the field, outside of maybe centre-half.


BTW how's MaCaan getting on at Burnly this season?
I'm impressed by how many 'A's you worked into that.


Also, please dont forget that I'm drunk now :)
Ah, now I get it :)

[paul_oshea]

He spelt nothing wrong until he made that disclaimer!

[Stuttgart88]

CMF really depends on how well the two players compliment each other.


He spelt nothing wrong until he made that disclaimer!

If that's the case, then I_P thinks central midfield all hinges on the two players being nice to each other?

[paul_oshea]

I knew I shouldn't have posted hungover ; )

[DannyInvincible]

If that's the case, then I_P thinks central midfield all hinges on the two players being nice to each other?

I've twice had my own dear mother correct that error for me in recent e-mails I'd sent her. I'd been completely oblivious to the fact that there were distinct spellings up until then. The shame!