Should Trapattoni manage Ireland for the 2014 World Cup Campaign?

[Stuttgart88]

I was delighted to get there, absolutely thrilled and it fully warranted whatever means it took. Trap deserves credit and I was happy to give it to him throughout qualifying.

But that's not to say we can't look at our weaknesses and see if they can be improved.

At times in the last 2 years we have too far easy to play against and especially in the recent past. We can romanticise Talinn all we want but the truth is that even after they went down to ten men they ran the show for 30 minutes until Walters scored, more or less out of the blue.

We were all happy with the Bosnia friendly win, but let's not forget we gifted them a one-on-one in the last minute. We played well in parts in Budapest but also gave away 2 or 3 gilt-edged chances. We then took this habit into the Croatia game and our luck ran out, just as it did at home to Russia.

So that tells me, this "hard to beat / we keep clean sheets" stuff isn't as robust as we think it is. I'm not going into the minutiae of potential personnel changes / shape changes / tactical changes but a completely reasonable conclusion to draw is that we must do something to cure these deficiencies whilst retaining our strengths. I have ideas as do others here, but Trap & Tardelli between them should recognise this and address it.

I'm not disagreeing with jbyrne at all, just adding an extra angle. I think mypost is seeing things in a totally binary way though, it's either 1 or 0, but there's no possiblity of anything in between.

[back of the net]

Russia should have beat Slovakia at home. Russia should have won in Armenia. Slovakia should have won in Armenia. Armenia could have got a result in Russia. Everyone dropped points they should have won at some stage in a very competitive group. That's the way it goes. Fortunately, we got over the line, so it doesn't matter in our case.



Wasn't bothered by the performance. The result kept us in qualifying contention and gave us the head-to-head advantage over the Slovaks thanks to our score draw over there. 2 vital points that helped get us to Poland.


I disagree with you on this, Its not about what Russia did or could have done or any other team , it is about what we should have done and be doing in future games so that we dont have to worry bout our results against other teams / head to head advantages to allow us to qualify.


We should be beating the weaker teams at home and we should be doing it without making ourselves suffer. Trap has to realise this, or else in reality , luck may not be on his side as much as it was in our last campaign

[ArdeeBhoy]

We're largely 'rubbish' or pretty mediocre at home.

Most of our recent creditable results were earnt well beyond D4. To the extent I'd like us to go back to Croke for the very big games, eg. Germany, as we played a little better there.

[mypost]

Its not about what Russia did or could have done or any other team , it is about what we should have done and be doing in future games.

In the case quoted, it is. We have never had a perfect campaign, very few teams do. Points will always be dropped somewhere along the line. We went into the playoff second leg 4-0 up, with the job done, and people here were whinging that the second leg was an anti-climax. So you can't have it both ways.


We should be beating the weaker teams at home and we should be doing it without making ourselves suffer.

We beat the weaker teams at home, and got the results we needed in most of the other games. Germany won all their qualifying games, and didn't have to worry about such minutiae as head-to-heads and playoffs. It's all rather meaningless for them now.

[Stuttgart88]

Everything in life is meaningless when the day of reckoning comes.

I have to say I'm utterly startled by your refusal to accept any merit, not even the merest scrap, in the views that botn or I have posted in the last few posts.

[back of the net]

In the case quoted, it is. We have never had a perfect campaign, very few teams do. Points will always be dropped somewhere along the line. We went into the playoff second leg 4-0 up, with the job done, and people here were whinging that the second leg was an anti-climax. So you can't have it both ways.



We beat the weaker teams at home, and got the results we needed in most of the other games. Germany won all their qualifying games, and didn't have to worry about such minutiae as head-to-heads and playoffs. It's all rather meaningless for them now.

Again I dont care how germany or other teams do. All i care about is my country and i dont want my country having to rely on other results going our way when we should not have to

I realise there is no perfect campaign but even against macedonia at home we were somewhat lucky, against slovakia at home we were absolutely bloody awful. We invited a team onto us who are below us imo and we were lucky not to be beaten.

When do you think the luck will run out? Because if Trap doesnt learn from his errors then our luck will run out and summer 2014 will be a quite one for us.

[paul_oshea]

This one was a great achievement. We hadn't qualified for anything in 10 years. We hadn't qualified for this in 24 years. Germany haven't always qualified by winning their group, nor have France, nor have Italy, nor have England. It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there.

And it doesn't matter how you got there, when you get there all that matters is how you perform. You are only as good as your last game.

[paul_oshea]

we were a complete and utter shambles when Trap took over. in his first campaign he drew with Italy twice and was only cheated out of the WC finals. That performance away against France was better than anything id seen away from home in 30 years supporting the team. He then managed us to qualify for the Euros. You can discuss the quality of our group all day but we were third seeds and we hadnt qualified in 24 years, often with far better players than we have now. Id say he's done a fair bit for our team to be honest

We weren't cheated out of a finals, we were cheated by a goal, that had we not conceded for the whole 30 mins of extra time, we would have gone through to penalties. Cheated out of the WC finals is not correct. Either way we needed to score, whether or not Henry cheated, to guarantee qualification to the finals. We could well have done an england and lost out on penalties, or done a spain 02.

[shakermaker1982]

GERMANY - OUT
PORTUGAL - OUT

Failures the lot of em.

I love Mypost's logic at times.

[paul_oshea]

MyPost thinks that every team should win it. All 16 teams should win, otherwise they are all failures, bar the actual win.

Posting at night does things to people, do you think because he posts when everyone else doesn't this is why our logic, and his logic are polar opposites. When you think like a robot, you act like a robot.

[bennocelt]

29/01/2008, 7:37 PM#2200 (http://foot.ie/threads/43037-New-Irish-manager?p=865552&viewfull=1#post865552)
bennocelt (http://foot.ie/members/7351-bennocelt)
http://foot.ie/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by The Man Himself http://foot.ie/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=865514#post865514)
HERES THE NEW IRISH MANAGER
http://www.pro-paul.net/baggio/pics/...trapattoni.jpg (http://www.pro-paul.net/baggio/pics/web/others/trapattoni.jpg)

giovanni trapattoni

oh god no...........an Italian version of Big Sam:(




Not much has happened in 4 years to change my original view. The only time ireland has played well under Trap was in paris and that was when the Irish team ignored his tactics and collectively decided to play out of their skin and an attacking game. I thought the irish team might do the same in this tournament. I actually expected them to come out of the group - all depending on the first game - but Traps starting team in the 3 games was a severe dissapointment.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You only just noticed?
;)

And get that e-mail?

[shakermaker1982]

Do you remember how positive he was before the Italian game?

Italy has NOT BEATEN Ireland since the appointment of Trap. You fools need to look beyond the two previous crap performances.


90 minutes later........

of course we lost. Look at the players the Trap has to work with.

[osarusan]

We weren't cheated out of a finals, we were cheated by a goal, that had we not conceded for the whole 30 mins of extra time, we would have gone through to penalties.
F*cking spot on. This notion that we were cheated out of a WC place is something that has been allowed to pass as truth for too long, by posters who should know better.

[paul_oshea]

Ya Osarusan but we were cheated out of our right to at least getting to penalties. I hope you aren't too far the other way.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, well said Paul.


Certain people should also be against the notion that Irish people should roll over and just 'accept it', when things don't go their way. Especially when they've been blatantly been wronged.

[mypost]

All i care about is my country and i dont want my country having to rely on other results going our way when we should not have to

That's the way it usually is with us, going back well before Trap. The one time it wasn't, last November, people haven't stopped whinging how easy and lucky we were.


We invited a team onto us who are below us imo and we were lucky not to be beaten.

And the logic for them been "below us" was? You clearly forgot they had earlier gone to Moscow and won. We got the point we needed to keep them at arms length. That was the bigger picture at the time.


When do you think the luck will run out?

Does it have to?


We weren't cheated out of a finals, we were cheated by a goal, that had we not conceded for the whole 30 mins of extra time, we would have gone through to penalties. Cheated out of the WC finals is not correct. Either way we needed to score, whether or not Henry cheated, to guarantee qualification to the finals.

Now you're getting all technical. Pity you can't see Trap's record here in quite the same way.


GERMANY - OUT
PORTUGAL - OUT

Thank you for pointing out the blindlingly obvious. There you're expected to win tournaments, not just qualify, so I wonder what "the moments to cheer about" are?


Posting at night does things to people, do you think because he posts when everyone else doesn't this is why our logic, and his logic are polar opposites.

I post during the day, I post during the night, I post whenever I like, while there's no curfew in operation on the site.

This place is open 24 hours, always has been, and my argument stands whether it's 3am or 3pm.

[Stuttgart88]

I'll post when I like, I'll post when I li-i-ike
Paul O'Shea
I'll post when I like

[back of the net]

That's the way it usually is with us, going back well before Trap. The one time it wasn't, last November, people haven't stopped whinging how easy and lucky we were.



And the logic for them been "below us" was? You clearly forgot they had earlier gone to Moscow and won. We got the point we needed to keep them at arms length. That was the bigger picture at the time.



Does it have to?


.

Are you seriously telling me that we were not lucky to get estonia? That it wasnt easy? Consider how we fared in our group in the euros, i shudder to think how they would have done



No Mypost, I have not forgotten that Slovakia beat Russia in Moscow, in the same way I havent forgotten that they got spanked by Armenia both home and away , that on both occassions they played Andorra they only beat them 1-0, in the same way Russia beat them in Bratislava.

And by "below us" I mean we are better than them imo and we should be beating them at home.

[mypost]

Are you seriously telling me that we were not lucky to get estonia? That it wasnt easy? Consider how we fared in our group in the euros, i shudder to think how they would have done

http://foot.ie/threads/168138-Should-Trapattoni-manage-Ireland-for-the-2014-World-Cup-Campaign?p=1607756&viewfull=1#post1607756

[back of the net]

http://foot.ie/threads/168138-Should-Trapattoni-manage-Ireland-for-the-2014-World-Cup-Campaign?p=1607756&viewfull=1#post1607756

There is no such thing as "earning luck', the draw just went our way and equally it could have gone the complete opposite for us and Poland could well have not happened for us.

My final comments on this is that we should be be beating teams that we are capable of beating not relying on "earning" a good draw or other teams doing us favours cos its a ridiculous concept if we have the ability to avoid those scenarios and just do the job ourselves by performing on the pitch .


Cheers

[paul_oshea]

I'll post when I like, I'll post when I li-i-ik
Paul O'Shea
I'll post when I like

and ill post what i like....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't tell R.M.Keane...
:rolleyes:

[mypost]

There is no such thing as "earning luck', the draw just went our way and equally it could have gone the complete opposite for us and Poland could well have not happened for us.

The draw was not equal or open. We were on the right side of the draw for a reason, and we got the calibre of opposition that being on the right side of the draw usually gets you. All the top seeds took advantage of what they were given, and only one of them was away in the return leg.

[back of the net]

The draw was not equal or open. We were on the right side of the draw for a reason, and we got the calibre of opposition that being on the right side of the draw usually gets you. All the top seeds took advantage of what they were given, and only one of them was away in the return leg.

We had a one in four chance of getting estonia before the draw was made, we had a 3 in 4 chance of getting a team alot better than estonia ..(turkey, bosnia and montenegro)....were in pot 1 for a reason but if we had gotten one of the previously mentioned 3 then there was every chance we could have struggled.

[tetsujin1979]

We had a one in four chance of getting estonia before the draw was made, we had a 3 in 4 chance of getting a team alot better than estonia ..(turkey, bosnia and montenegro)....were in pot 1 for a reason but if we had gotten one of the previously mentioned 3 then there was every chance we could have struggled.
Bosnia were the only team I genuinely feared in the draw.
Turkey won every game at home, except for a loss to Germany, but away from home, they were terrible. In five games, they only managed to beat Kazakhstan, lost to Azerbaijan and they only scored four goals - three of which were in the victory over Kazakhstan. I'd definitely have fancied taking them at the Aviva
Montenegro finished second with 12 points, unbeaten at home, but with only two wins, both 1-0 over Switzerland and Wales. Away from home they had only one win, 1-0 over Bulgaria, but lost 2-0 and 2-1 to Switzerland and Wales, respectively. Again, against them I'd have fancied an away draw (or possibly a 1 goal loss) and a convincing home win.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's how we do away that counts, given we can barely beat an egg at home.

[Irish_Praha]

Bosnia were the only team I genuinely feared in the draw.
Turkey won every game at home, except for a loss to Germany, but away from home, they were terrible. In five games, they only managed to beat Kazakhstan, lost to Azerbaijan and they only scored four goals - three of which were in the victory over Kazakhstan. I'd definitely have fancied taking them at the Aviva
Montenegro finished second with 12 points, unbeaten at home, but with only two wins, both 1-0 over Switzerland and Wales. Away from home they had only one win, 1-0 over Bulgaria, but lost 2-0 and 2-1 to Switzerland and Wales, respectively. Again, against them I'd have fancied an away draw (or possibly a 1 goal loss) and a convincing home win.

I gernerally agree with what you are saying but outside of the bottom 1 or 2 seeds in a group when have we last had a convincing home win in a competitive game?
Sometimes the games against the bottom seeds have also been far from convincing.
At the moment if we lost 1-0 away against any team capable of making the play offs I would have very little confidence that we could turn it around in the home leg.