Should Trapattoni manage Ireland for the 2014 World Cup Campaign? [Archive] - Page 2

punkrocket

25/06/2012, 12:14 PM

I'm fed up of travelling long distances to watch a mediocre team. I bet I'm hurting a lot more than Trap at the moment. It seems we are stuck with him because we're skint. When is his contract up? If it's at the end of the qualifying campaign get rid of him then, he has proved that he can get teams to finals but it would be no lose if we had someone else for the finals. Remember how he did that time with Italy? worst they've ever played at a tournament.

Philly

25/06/2012, 2:30 PM

I was keen not to jump on any anti-Trap bandwagon after our dismal few weeks but the more I think about it, the more I think he is just not the right man for the job. All throughout the qualifications we did not look confident or like we were improving. Regardless of the opponent we rarely even tried to keep pocession. Trap's plan, and seeming his only plan, is to defend and catch teams on the break/through set-pieces. He seems to think this is our only option and it is all this team is capable of. The problem I have is that I feel the players at his disposal are capable of better. We may not have any world-beaters but Ireland rarely have had many, yet we never before set out to go into games with our tails between our legs from the offset.

If this stuff in the papers about players being (understandably) unhappy with his unwillingness to give other personnel/tactics a chance then that just makes me more fed up with the man. He showed no leadership off this pitch this summer and was devoid of any ideas when it came to tactics. Playing Cox on the wing/in midfield as a Plan B just stupid when you have better wingers and midfielder. His loyalty to some rather mediocre players (Green over Gibson v. Spain) is ridiculous. Add to that the fact he may have made a balls of things with some key young players and that just about sums up why I am very unsure he is the right man for the job now.

Having said all that, there's no doubt he will be kept on and I can only hope he now realised the need to give the younger lads a shot and maybe get the team playing more. Otherwise we might be in for a bleak couple of years.

Charlie Darwin

25/06/2012, 2:55 PM

If he's lost the dressing room, that's it.

paul_oshea

25/06/2012, 2:56 PM

Yep before when we qualified for something, we were optimistic, rightfully so I mean, not the usual blind fan optimism, that we would qualify for the next tournament. This time there is no real cause or hope for optimism.

My hope, which wont happen, is to keep him for the year, get over the first couple of games and get rid of him, hodgson has shown that you can take over a team with limited time and get results, though I know its a bit radical. I just think its too soon to get someone in for the september and october games. I still think he can get us a win in Kazhakstan with his crap football.

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 2:58 PM

Yes, but CD makes the point briefly and clearly - if he's lost the dressing room there's no going back. That's the key for me. If I felt the players were being spoilt brats then they can fcek off but I don't think that is the case here - again, that assumes Rowan is on the money.

DannyInvincible

25/06/2012, 3:10 PM

If there's any truth in the Sunday Mirror and Paul Rowan accusations (which should be linked here, and not in some random Damien Duff tributary thread) then I think Trap's position will become untenable. The reported incidents hardly sound impluasible.

On one hand there are clear mitigants, mainly the quality of the opposition, but on the other we have:

Awful man management, I mean truly awful
Overtraining (which England's Italian fitness coach was guilty of in 2006 I think)
Outdated tactics
Lack of flexibility
Dumb substitutions

Look, I know he got us there which only Jack had ever done before but the stuff Rowan is writing makes me feel very uneasy.

These factors are similarly colouring my opinion. I outlined why I voted a qualified 'yes', but I may have voted 'no' had I been aware of the issues with players. It was mentioned somewhere that senior players advised Trap to take a family holiday before deciding on his future. That is worrying.

Here's the scan from Twitter again for the sake of convenience:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/AwKGcAQCIAIW_sD.jpg

I've tweeted Ciar�n � Raghallaigh to see if he can provide a scan of pages 64 and 65.

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 3:14 PM

Thanks - I'm not allowed photobucket here. Will look it up later at home.

paul_oshea

25/06/2012, 3:14 PM

I thought that was what they told Dunne to takea family a holiday before deciding on retiring?

Its all so funny how the Trapologists are now calling for Trap to resign.

Supporters Fans are a fickle bunch alright.

I think given the autumn fixtures, if Trap gets 7 points from them , then he should be allowed stay on. Otherwise get rid of him, plenty of time for a new manager to come in and have a look at players, actually go to watch the team, and then hopefully still be in with a chance of qualifying. Its just sweden are always so clinical in qualifiers that we cant afford slip ups.

September 7, 2012

Kazakhstan v Republic of Ireland

October 12, 2012

Republic of Ireland v Germany

October 16, 2012
Faroe Islands v Republic of Ireland

7 points is more than doable, considering a home tie against Germany.

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 3:16 PM

Oh Paul, you're a visionary.

Who exactly was a Trapologist anyway?

paul_oshea

25/06/2012, 3:20 PM

I don't need to embarass anyone here stutts, we all know, and they should know too.

You for a start :P Ah no you weren't as blinded by the bright lights to be fair.

DannyInvincible

25/06/2012, 3:22 PM

I thought that was what they told Dunne to takea family a holiday before deciding on retiring?

Perhaps I misread it, but was nearly sure it was in relation to Trap. Not sure where it was now.

Its all so funny how the Trapologists are now calling for Trap to resign.

Supporters Fans are a fickle bunch alright.

New factors have come to light though. I'm not exactly calling for him to resign now, but these factors are worth bringing into consideration. The whole squad demanded a rest-day due to the intensive training regime, Gibson is considering his international future, McClean described the experience as "a shambles" and Stephen Hunt was apparently in tears as he "stormed out" (to the team bus, presumably). Hunt had been promised game-time by Trap. If Trap has lost the dressing room and the players' issues are valid, it's difficult to see how he might be able to continue.

paul_oshea

25/06/2012, 3:26 PM

Wow why do people now care what the palyers think? They didn't before hand and scoffed at Hunt throwing a tantrum in Dublin? Seriously that really p1sses me off. People said MCgeady was a professional player and should be well able for the training. Now everyones attitude has changed. I couldn't give a sh1te about hunt not playing, he wouldn't have made a difference players aren't there to feed their egos or to get game time like an u12s match. McClean has just joined the squad he should keep schtum.

What did worry me from the start though is everyones horn for the leetle details and thought how great Trap was and right he was for ousting "percerived trouble makers", his system was very rigid, lads had long seasons behind htem and yet little time for rest or a break(with family etc) before the tournament. I think Hodgson got that side of things spot on to be honest. ALl this perparation and crap, and it did absolutely nothing, actually not true, it seems to have ****ed a large number of the squad off and alienated potential star players for the future.

Also mentioned that all the time, when there seemed to be trouble between Trap and players, and people said it was just miscommunication or nothing happening, some feared that it would come to a head, i Think that time has now arrived.

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 3:30 PM

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 3:32 PM

Wow why do people now care what the palyers think? They didn't before hand and scoffed at Hunt throwing a tantrum in Dublin? Seriously that really p1sses me off. People said MCgeady was a professional player and should be well able for the training. Now everyones attitude has changed. I couldn't give a sh1te about hunt not playing, he wouldn't have made a difference players aren't there to feed their egos or to get game time like an u12s match. McClean has just joined the squad he should keep schtum.

What did worry me from the start though is everyones horn for the leetle details and thought how great Trap was and right he was for ousting "percerived trouble makers", his system was very rigid, lads had long seasons behind htem and yet little time for rest or a break(with family etc) before the tournament. I think Hodgson got that side of things spot on to be honest. ALl this perparation and crap, and it did absolutely nothing, actually not true, it seems to have ****ed a large number of the squad off and alienated potential star players for the future.
Wow, I don't think I've ever read two paragraphs written by the same person that contradict each other as much as those two do.

paul_oshea

25/06/2012, 3:36 PM

Paul, I stated my exact historical opinion of Trap quite clearly last week and I think you decided to ignore it. Some here always see things as simple black or white. I was glass half full on Trap nearly all the time, whereas you seem to be always glass virtually empty (I think that was literally the case in Poland :)).

I quoted Keynes here recently: "When the facts change I change my mind. What do you do sir?" though it has since been brought to my attention that Churchill said it first so I'm less inclined to use it now! But that's what I've done - updated my opinion based on updated events. More evidence (or accusation, more accurately) of woeful man management is turning me right against him.

Keano for Kazakhstan (half in jest, half in despair).

I don't think its updated events, i think its the results - which some people felt was the inevitable, and proved so at the Euros - and now these same events that were occuring throughout his tenure are no longer being ignored but to back the points at hand.

I didn't contradict myself, I'm speaking from the viewpoint, why do people now care about the players side of things, when it didn't matter before,it was more of a rhetorical question.

yes the glass virtually empty was definitely true - as my embarassing moment on Craig Doyle showed after the Italy game :D

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 3:41 PM

But who said the players' side of things didn't matter before?

The evidence was that some players were taking the p1ss with regard to behaviour and turning up when it suited them. Trap was right to assert his authority. But nobody was unconcerned with man management and communication issues.

When a manager loses the dressing room it's almost always the end. Had Trap lost the dressing room before Euro 2012 and the preparation in Dublin? I doubt it. Therefore I do think it's updated events.

If it was only the results I wouldn't be that fussed, they were hardly unexpected.

Junior

25/06/2012, 4:08 PM

paul_oshea

25/06/2012, 4:22 PM

We will fight them on the beaches?

Loads of people stutts, the point is this, there have been KPIs throughout traps tenure, that he was falling out with players, and his man(mis-)-management was atrocious, whether its trouble makers or players not showing up, or trap getting players confused. It all resulted generally in the same thing, a big hulabaloo with loads of people second guessing, and then the usual suspects saying it was being read the wrong way and nothing was wrong, happy boat sailing to the promised land.

So lets take the McGeady and Gibson and Hunt thing, i read before i left that gibson had been disciplined for going to meet friends/family when he was supposed to be in the team hotel, I read on here that "Mcgeady is a paid professional" etc etc and that he should be well used to training - even though it now appears after watching Ireland stagger around over 3 games that they were tired, they were sluggish, they were over-worked. Hunt throwing a strop during the bosnia game, everyone was saying to cop on. So why change the attitude towards trap and his player mis-management, when there have been key signs, and rumptions in the past? Other than the fact that we lost 3 games badly, I don't see why the attitudes have changed? Its hardly because McClean has come out and said something, as he is the only other player to come out and complain or at least that we know about. These were things people agreed with before hte tournament, and were apparent before and will be long after with Traps management. So why care now, other than we were crap and people are realising that the whole campaign was a shambles? From results, to leetle details, to training, to socialising? You reap what you sow.

Funny I thought we looked so fresh and up for it against Bosnia.

paul_oshea

25/06/2012, 4:31 PM

So Paul, we only have 6 points after 3 games, assume we lose at home to Germany. Are you praying that Trap Resigns or are you putting your hand in your pocket to help Denis and the FAI pay him off?......or perhaps you will shift your forthright views (As Sweden dropped points away to the Faroes). What was it Churchill said.......

EDIT.

Stutts stop even joking about Keane as manager its unnerving me.

Question for ye all. How many great players have become great managers over the years?

I can think of plenty of examples of very ordinary players (if indeed some of them made the grade) that are/were great managers. Stein, Ferguson, Mourhino some obvious examples. Could you put Wenger in that category? probably 5 or 6 years ago...less so now.

King Kenny (a great player) was a great manager (achieved great success) at Liverpool/Blackburn. Not so at Newcastle,Celtic.

Is Royston destined never to be a great manager?

What was Cruyffs managerial record like? think he had some bust ups with club boards I recall not sure how he did honours wise. Rinus Michels played for Ajax but only 5 international caps (thanks wiki).

Would like some examples if you have any? (a bit off topic I know)

Do you think perhaps that if someone is so good in one position, that they don't have to work as hard, naturally at least, and therefore they don't have focus on other positions, only their own. Whereas those who are average players have a better understanding of overall positions and tactics etc. Its a simplistic view, but i'd imagine intelligence also plays a factor.

Junior honest, not fortright. I just hate the way people can be fickle about things when indicators are there from the start. But to be honest, if we were to get 7 points from those 3 games, I really don't think in the next few months we could get someone in who could return better results than Trap. I do certianly think longer term we could though. Look trap could adopt a 451 in the near future and employ our best players in our best positions and all will be backing Trap again - i dont believe he will completely remove the shackles or change his principles but change in personnell for sure.

To quote a once great manager "the faroes, they will create problems for many teams".

Junior

25/06/2012, 4:38 PM

You've lost me a bit there POS

I am guessing half that post is for another thread and the other half means "Yes, I would put my hand in my pocket to help pay off Traps contract but Im praying we get those 7 points because I have a stag to go on and the rent needs paying etc.etc..etc.."

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 4:47 PM

I just hate the way people can be fickle about things when indicators are there from the start. Well I've stated my view and it's not fickle one jot. An indicator is one thing, a definitive fact is yet another.

Noelys Guitar

25/06/2012, 5:00 PM

SkStu

25/06/2012, 5:23 PM

I thought that was what they told Dunne to takea family a holiday before deciding on retiring?.

that's what I read also.

By the way, I don't think he deserves any more time with this team. And like you, Paul, I'm beginning to feel vindicated about the reservations I've had since his first squad and press conference that he was not the man for as he just never rated us. I've caught a few waves since then but overall that gnawing feeling in the pit of my stomach just refused to go away.

SkStu

25/06/2012, 5:30 PM

Also, we need a man-manager, with in-depth knowledge of our players pool and good communication skills. Stutts, I did complain quite vocally at the times you mention above about Traps massive failings in this regard.

(ignoring the trap compensation issue), McCarthy for 2014?

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 5:35 PM

Yes, I appreciate that you've always been quite consistyent actually.

mypost

25/06/2012, 5:49 PM

Having said all that, there's no doubt he will be kept on and I can only hope he now realised the need to give the younger lads a shot and maybe get the team playing more. Otherwise we might be in for a bleak couple of years.

The flops at these championships will be replaced.

We got to our first tournament in 10 years, were put in a very difficult group, and got the results people expected from that group. Before then, we lost 2 games in 24, and moved 20-30 places up the rankings under this coach. There is no need for radical surgery on the coaching side.

My hope, which wont happen, is to keep him for the year, get over the first couple of games and get rid of him, hodgson has shown that you can take over a team with limited time and get results, though I know its a bit radical. I just think its too soon to get someone in for the september and october games. I still think he can get us a win in Kazhakstan with his crap football.

Hodgson with his far superior players, is still in the tournament obviously.

We are more than capable of going to Kazachstan and getting the points, and the Faroes as well. That's at least 6 points won before the trip to Sweden.

Its all shades of Berti Vogts with Scotland.

Remind me what tournaments he qualified them for again?

Stuttgart88

25/06/2012, 6:00 PM

Look, I've veered towards glass half empty now based on my interpretation of Euro 2012 events and more importantly the Rowan stuff which might well just be scurrilous hearsay. For example, I was in Sopot and thought the hotel was sufficiently far away from the main strip to be quiet and away from the fans' drinking but Rowan says otherwise. But the Rowan stuff is what has tipped me to half empty, and a bit beyond. Trap appears to have made a balls of the post-qualification phase.

The fact that his qualification record was relatively emphatic was what kept me the other side. If he has lost the dressing room the chances of a good qualification campaign are massively reduced.

Closed Account 2

25/06/2012, 6:46 PM

ArdeeBhoy

25/06/2012, 10:16 PM

I quoted Keynes here recently: "When the facts change I change my mind. What do you do sir?" though it has since been brought to my attention that Churchill said it first so I'm less inclined to use it now! But that's what I've done - updated my opinion based on updated events. More evidence (or accusation, more accurately) of woeful man management is turning me right against him.

Keano for Kazakhstan (half in jest, half in despair).

Feck, I'd rather have had John Maynard Keynes as Ireland manager than the other eejit you suggest...

Kingdom

26/06/2012, 12:38 AM

If there's any truth in the Sunday Mirror and Paul Rowan accusations (which should be linked here, and not in some random Damien Duff tributary thread) then I think Trap's position will become untenable. The reported incidents hardly sound impluasible.

On one hand there are clear mitigants, mainly the quality of the opposition, but on the other we have:

Awful man management, I mean truly awful
Overtraining (which England's Italian fitness coach was guilty of in 2006 I think)
Outdated tactics
Lack of flexibility
Dumb substitutions

Look, I know he got us there which only Jack had ever done before but the stuff Rowan is writing makes me feel very uneasy.

There is a poster that used to be on here, soccerc, he is over on ybig every so often, and he mentioned that the stories are going to be coming out in the next few weeks. I've found him to be very informed in the past.

http://www.ybig.ie/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39562&PID=953750&title=has-trapps-training-metods-burned-them-out#953750

Paul Rowan had some really icy articles in the Sunday Times this weekend, but crucially there were no direct quotes from players, or any on the record stuff from FAI board members. Some of it actually was very close to what posters here have said over the past few weeks.

Scooby Doo

26/06/2012, 12:57 AM

Good, interesting debate, but ultimately pointless. Trap is going nowhere and as warm and fuzzy as a Mick mcCarthy return might make us feel, it is not going to happen in the medium term. Trap aint going so lets just hope he sees sense and makes some serious changes in certain areas - and soon!!

Noelys Guitar

26/06/2012, 1:55 AM

Delaney is the one in a precarious position. He is smart enough to know that he can't allow another Swiss home game scenario under MicMac to happen. But he also extended Traps contract. Paul Rowan (and others) are alleging that Richard Dunne confronted Trapatonni after the Italy game. Thats more serious than anything McClean, Gibson or Hunt allege. Dunne is the real captain of the team.

geysir

26/06/2012, 7:46 AM

Its all shades of Berti Vogts with Scotland. And Delaney said in yesterdays inteview with the Indo that he would be sitting down with Trap to go over things. What exactly is Delaney going to tell Trap? You must pick such and such a player. This is all going to end in tears and sooner than I thought.
That's a good point Noely.
Possibly the triumvirate who interviewed Trap to begin with (or another bunch), should sit down with Trap, review and find out what his definite plans are for the next campaign. He likes to talk football, doesn't he?

shakermaker1982

26/06/2012, 11:43 AM

Team morale was fine on the eve of the first game. 3 one sided beatings and there is disgruntlement. No surprise there really. A losing dressing room is an unhappy one. Particularly for those players who feel they didn't get a fair crack of the whip during the tournament itself. Gibson has a legitimate grievance and playing Cox on the wing would upset the wide players but I'd be very surprised if there is outright mutiny amongst the squad just yet.

If training was too extreme then I'd expect the captain/senior players to have a word with the coaches. They did get one rest day after McGeady came out with his comments about the camp.

I've not read the Rowan article yet so will have a hunt for it now.

Stuttgart88

26/06/2012, 11:55 AM

It is true that Rowan has only have had one point of view in this regard and that's got to be taken into account.

third policeman

26/06/2012, 12:20 PM

Who could we get in to replace him? Mick McCarthy ? I really don't see that going well. In the cold light of day he didn't get us to France 98, didn't get us to Holland/Belgium 2000 and played a big part in us not getting to Euro 2004. He probably had a better team than the current one with both Keanes, Duff and Given being at their best and being World Class players.

Did Trapp actually get us to the Euro finals? He got us to the play-offs by virtue of coming second in a very soft group. The luck of the draw got us to the finals. Any of the other sides in the play-offs would probably have beaten us. On that score his record is no better than Mick's. We now know what a Trapp future would look like and it's a hideous spectacle of wasted talent, alienated players and dreadful football. Mick is no world-beater abd there are other options out there, but he would be greeted as a footballing saviour by most of our players and I suspect a growing number of supporters if he came back now.

jbyrne

26/06/2012, 12:38 PM

Did Trapp actually get us to the Euro finals? He got us to the play-offs by virtue of coming second in a very soft group. The luck of the draw got us to the finals. Any of the other sides in the play-offs would probably have beaten us. On that score his record is no better than Mick's. We now know what a Trapp future would look like and it's a hideous spectacle of wasted talent, alienated players and dreadful football. Mick is no world-beater abd there are other options out there, but he would be greeted as a footballing saviour by most of our players and I suspect a growing number of supporters if he came back now.

our group wasnt that easy. we did after all qualify as 3rd seeds. the only team to do so. we earned the right to get a weaker nation like estonia given we earned the right to be seeded in the play-off draw.

i made the point before that its basically the same 12 or 13 that qualify for the euros each time so we got 1 of the few places that the likes of us achieves from time to time. to qualify this time with the players we have was a very good achievement. we were in the hardest group by far and this difficult task was made worse by our dreadful first 10 mins against croatia. trap has done a great job with us.

IF trap was to go we wouldnt deserve Mick back. He was treated apallingly by the media 90% of his time in charge and the way the "fans" turned on him at the end was a disgrace. now he we are claiming he would be greated at a "footballing saviour"??

elroy

26/06/2012, 12:58 PM

A narrow yes for me.

He deserves another campaign in charge, this team was the worst squad of Irish players to make a finals tournament, but in that there is a positive, he got a poor team to qualify. (still think 02 qualification was greatest achievement).

I was a big fan of Trap upto the Euros. Dont like how we play but its a results business and by and large he got them and brought structure to our team. My big concern was how Russia murdered us in both games - i.e. no lessons were learned by Trap from the home game. And alas those lessons were still not learned this summer.

Change is needed. Formation or personell, certainly the latter and probably both. Problem areas are centre midfield, centre half, full back. I would like to see more younger players drafted in and given a chance - Gibson, Westwood, McClean, McCarthy, Long all merit more inclusion, others certainly are worth a closer look Clark, Coleman, Duffy. Hoolhan is unfortunately not likely to get a look given his style and age.

I would like to see Ireland go back to the way we played in the WC qualifiers. The friendly at the start of that campaign in Norway, the Mainz and Montenegro performances along with the Italy performances (and of course Paris) were games where we held our own in midfield. We certainly have missed a Steven Reid type player from those early days.

Finally I was worried to read the stories of discontent from certain players i.e. Gibson and more so Dunne. Not good if true but in Dunnes case, alot will be told from his decision to stay or not. Most journos have been predicting that he will stay. Another point to note is most inches devoted to the discontent were written by a certain Paul Rowan.

Wolfie

26/06/2012, 1:17 PM

Without getting crazily ahead of ourselves - just should the situation take a decidedly bad turn for the worse.

I hope the FAI have the wit to discreetly suss out not only a suitable replacements availability, but also whether any potential candidates would have a committed and motivated interest in taking the job. A tall order given our current state of affairs.

I'm only being semi-serious but I'm sure many remember our last New Manager Odyssey??? Did we reach 50 names and 130 thread pages???

Anyway, what's Steve Coppell's speed dial?????

jbyrne

26/06/2012, 1:24 PM

I hope the FAI have the wit to discreetly suss out not only a suitable replacements availability, but also whether any potential candidates would have a committed and motivated interest in taking the job. A tall order given our current state of affairs.

really? are things that bad?? i dont think so at all. apart from the 12 or 13 big european teams id say our job would be quite interesting

Wolfie

26/06/2012, 1:31 PM

really? are things that bad?? i dont think so at all. apart from the 12 or 13 big european teams id say our job would be quite interesting

I think that could depend on the type of replacement we want and who wants us.

If we wanted a manager to effectively pick up tactically where Trapp left off, we'd be in good shape.

What we actually need is a complete overhaul tactically and a proper blooding of players not seen since the earliest days of Mick McCarthy's tenure.

That's a big task with a lot of potential strife in the short term. I still think this approach will benefit us in the long run.

It could be argued a new manager would revel in this clean slate but it will involve potentially writing off a World Cup campaign, unless the experimentation lead to immediate results.

Fixer82

26/06/2012, 2:09 PM

I was delighted to see Trap getting being appointed the Irish manager when I saw his CV.

But his performance in Euro 2012, and in many of the qualifiers, beggared belief. I knew he was conservative but to be so conservative as to not throw anything out of a sinking ship and see if it might stay afloat is crazy.

I think he tries to rule with an iron fist and it hasn't served Ireland well - Andy Reid, Steven Reid, Darron Gibson etc etc.

Yet he is contradictory too...he was practically begging Stephen Ireland to play at one stage when he did not want to play for his country and others who were desperate to play were shunned for minor steps outside the line.

He had no plan B in the Euros and stuck way too rigidly to 4-4-2 when it clearly was not working.

We were awful in many of the qualifiers and were very lucky at times too.

I think his luck has run out and the team's deficiencies were found out.
I'm not so much annoyed that we lost all three games but it was the manner in which we lost and the lack of direction and focus that was really frustrating. I imagine many of the players feel the same too.

paul_oshea

26/06/2012, 2:22 PM

Fixer82 I'd agree with most of that to be honest, most of it said already, but constructed well in one post.

I think the contradictory point, was just Trap playing to the media. He is very astute, and its easy to flirt with someone when you know deep down that there is no chance of you getting anywhere. By entertaining the media for a few moments, he was keeping them on side. Thats all he was doing.

third policeman

26/06/2012, 2:33 PM

trap has done a great job with us

What would it take for you to question this judgement. We have just turned in the worst ever performance by a Euro finals qualifier. We disgraced ourselves and would appear to have alienated and demoralised a significant number of our most important players.

paul_oshea

26/06/2012, 2:40 PM

Some people just can't see certain things, and others just don't like to be wrong, and nearly all just cant admit to being wrong.

When it comes to Irish football personally, I love being wrong, because it generally means its for the benefit of the team :)

Wolfie

26/06/2012, 2:49 PM

When it comes to Irish football personally, I love being wrong, because it generally means its for the benefit of the team :)

So, even when you're wrong, you're right!!!

That's quite an elaborate web of bullsh*t you woven there, Paul.

jbyrne

26/06/2012, 2:49 PM

What would it take for you to question this judgement. We have just turned in the worst ever performance by a Euro finals qualifier. We disgraced ourselves and would appear to have alienated and demoralised a significant number of our most important players.

i supported through the days of stan and the darker days of micks reign. ive seen us far far lower than trap has us.

i am also a realist and realise that we were in the toughest finals group, we were the only finals country without players in the champions league and i know that players with LA Galaxy, wolves, fulham, leicester city, stoke, wba etc cant be expected to compete with the players spain and italy have. i also dont think that 2 or 3 of our senior players were fit.

i have problems with trap also but stans tenure put us back years but since then we were only cheated out of a wc finals and we qualified for the euros. not bad really

OwlsFan

26/06/2012, 2:54 PM

I'm fed up of travelling long distances to watch a mediocre team. .

:O Many of us here remember travelling long distances seeing good Irish teams losing. Give me Trap's unbeaten run away from home (the tournament aside) with a mediocre team any day of the year. Do you want not only not to be beaten away from home but also watch good football?

Trouble in the camp? Of course people will be unhappy if they don't get games. In club sides they ask for transfers. In international teams all they can do is pout or not play again. It's the nature of the beast. Wouldn't worry me too much.

Who would the people who want a new manager like to replace Trap. By and large every third manager improves things while the other two don't. In my years of following Sheff Wed, I have seen 26 new managers. 6 improved things. 20 didn't !! Since Mick, we had 2 who didn't and one who did although some would argue whether Trap has or hasn't improved things. Change does not necessarily mean improvement. It is a risk and I know nothing ventured, nothing gained but the gaps between championships are 4 years so we have to be sure the change is the correct one. I would prefer to stick with Trap because better the reasonably successful devil you know than the devil you don't :)