Celtic Premier League

[the bear]

We need to develop our national league into a competition that young players want to be part of. It needs to be on par with England and the continent in terms of opportunity for sporting success and potential wages. There is no point in the FAI developing some sort of acadamy for young talent when they cannot provide anywhere for them to play. The best players would be lifted from the academy by top english clubs immediatley anyway, where they would go on to receive their training.

How do we get there, i dont know. I think a combined Celtic league with Scotland, N.Ireland and Wales is definitley the place to begin. It doesn't necessarily have to be provincial teams. Why not take the top 5 teams from each league and bring them together. If it was marketed correctly and received good sponsership it would have a great ability to grow.

[BonnieShels]

*facepalms*

Dude, this has been discussed ad nauseum.
Never gonna happen.

There's a lot to sort out nothing the LOI and junior football never mind adding a layer to it.

[Dodge]

Yep, the Welsh and Scots are defo the people we want to be getting into bed with to make beautiful little football babies

[the bear]

Yep, the Welsh and Scots are defo the people we want to be getting into bed with to make beautiful little football babies

we get in bed with them to generate more interest in our league.

4 small leagues joined together = 1 bigger league

[the bear]

*facepalms*

Dude, this has been discussed ad nauseum.
Never gonna happen.

There's a lot to sort out nothing the LOI and junior football never mind adding a layer to it.

I realise it has been, but i still think it is the best way forward. How do you suggest to reform?

[Dodge]

we get in bed with them to generate more interest in our league.

4 small leagues joined together = 1 bigger league

You think Sligo v Bangor City is of more interest than Sligo v Cork?

Have you seen the crowds for the Setanta Cup?

Do you go to League games in Ireland? If no, do you think you're part of the problem. If yes, do you think playing Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish team would raise the standard?

[Real ale Madrid]

Celtic Premier League?

Isn't that the new name for the SPL.

[Charlie Darwin]

We need to develop our national league into a competition that young players want to be part of. It needs to be on par with England and the continent in terms of opportunity for sporting success and potential wages.
Why? Croatia produced a team perfectly capable of hammering us despite not having a national league on a par with Serie A.

[the bear]

You think Sligo v Bangor City is of more interest than Sligo v Cork?

Have you seen the crowds for the Setanta Cup?

Do you go to League games in Ireland? If no, do you think you're part of the problem. If yes, do you think playing Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish team would raise the standard?

only if your from bangor. Sligo v Celtic might be more interesting.

Barely ever. Yes i agree i am.

iIt might not have a sudden influx of quality, but would give much more scope to grow.

[Eminence Grise]

Even better, wait until Scotland secedes from the UK, then merge with them as a single nation, confirming Celtic and Hibs as proper Irish clubs. Having Rangers as an Irish club would be very attractive to Northern Unionists who, when England realises it is too small to exist independently and applies to be part of the Celtic nation, could claim the union is maintained. Eventually the Welsh would have to join too, then the Isle of Man and Brittany, adding Stade Rennais, Stade Brestois 29, and Lorient to our pan-Celtic national league.

[Macy]

We need to develop our national league into a competition that young players want to be part of. It needs to be on par with England and the continent in terms of opportunity for sporting success and potential wages. There is no point in the FAI developing some sort of acadamy for young talent when they cannot provide anywhere for them to play. The best players would be lifted from the academy by top english clubs immediatley anyway, where they would go on to receive their training.
It's inevitable that the best players will go overseas - same with most leagues in Europe. The problem is shipping kids off from the "nursery clubs", rather than keeping them in Ireland. The best players will go, the late developers won't be lost to football and have a chance to blossom (and then move, or have a decent career earning alright extra money).

The national league is here. God knows it has it's problems (it would be massively helped with more going to games and proper administration/ regulation by the FAI), but the problem is really below that level. There's no silver bullet for the top level game, as the setanta cup shows. Talk of messing with the structure for some celtic league in some vain hope of it generating interest and money is a nonsense. Why would people who don't support the league suddenly want to go and watch Pats v Dumfermline? How would it generate the money to match what the best players can get in England? In which case, why would the top players chose to stay.

Come or don't come to the League of Ireland - it's the people that dismiss who are losing out. However, don't try and pretend that the lack of interest is to do with the format. That is just excuse making for the people who won't get off their hole now. You are right though that the lack of support from both supporters and the FAI is impacting on the national team. However, don't expect anything to change - there's been countless threads like this over the years, and it's just not accepted by the supporters.

[Crosby87]

We just had a bad two games. If we can make the World Cup things will be on track. Sweden also stinks so we have a shot. And we are due to tip a good team so who knows maybe we can get 3 VS the Krauts in Dubs.

[Dodge]

We're at a massive disadvantage because we haven't a league string enough to produce players for the national team. That bit isn't in question. But that problem doesn't exist because of the people involved with the league. it exists because of the people involved in Irish football with no interest in the league.

Look at Croatia or Denmark. Similarly sized countries but always have 4/5 home based players in their squad and practically all their players have started their career in their home leagues. For Ireland to stop relying on British clubs to develop our players (when they can barely develop the required level from English youngsters) we NEED to have a league strong enough to supply 3-5 squad players in every Irish squad. I genuinely think that the likes of McLean, Fahey, Ward, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and Coleman show that talented players can play here and still move on to the bigger leagues when they're ready. The likes of Keane, Duff etc will always go away early.

But of course I'll be laughed at as a LOI zealot and fans here will still look to the FAI to 'unearth' players like Green and Cox. Meanwhile fans in EVERY other country that qualifies regularly from Europe maintain their professional leagues

[barney]

We're at a massive disadvantage because we haven't a league string enough to produce players for the national team. That bit isn't in question. But that problem doesn't exist because of the people involved with the league. it exists because of the people involved in Irish football with no interest in the league.

Look at Croatia or Denmark. Similarly sized countries but always have 4/5 home based players in their squad and practically all their players have started their career in their home leagues. For Ireland to stop relying on British clubs to develop our players (when they can barely develop the required level from English youngsters) we NEED to have a league strong enough to supply 3-5 squad players in every Irish squad. I genuinely think that the likes of McLean, Fahey, Ward, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and Coleman show that talented players can play here and still move on to the bigger leagues when they're ready. The likes of Keane, Duff etc will always go away early.

But of course I'll be laughed at as a LOI zealot and fans here will still look to the FAI to 'unearth' players like Green and Cox. Meanwhile fans in EVERY other country that qualifies regularly from Europe maintain their professional leagues

Have to agree on the England bit - they were muck against France and are at pretty much every tournament. They don't develop proper footballers in the way the Dutch and Spanish do and only get to the knockout stages of competitions because of their population and the popularity of football in England. Pound for pound - they're as bad as us.

[Dodge]

Have to agree on the England bit - they were muck against France and are at pretty much every tournament. They don't develop proper footballers in the way the Dutch and Spanish do and only get to the knockout stages of competitions because of their population and the popularity of football in England. Pound for pound - they're as bad as us.

Yeah, that was the point of that post alright

[nigel-harps1954]

How about we do a massive Euromillions syndicate and when we win that, we'll buy the league ourselves. I think that'll work.

[Charlie Darwin]

Look at Croatia or Denmark. Similarly sized countries but always have 4/5 home based players in their squad and practically all their players have started their career in their home leagues.
I was actually looking at the attendances for the Croatian league and the average has dipped below 2,000 so it's not massively better than ours. Still, the standard there is much higher for a variety of reasons and the culture there is for players to develop locally and then try their hand abroad.

[the bear]

I was actually looking at the attendances for the Croatian league and the average has dipped below 2,000 so it's not massively better than ours. Still, the standard there is much higher for a variety of reasons and the culture there is for players to develop locally and then try their hand abroad.

5 of the current squad play in croatia, although all for the same team. Several home based players have won their first cap recently but did not make the squad.

[nigel-harps1954]

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

This is interesting, average attendances for European leagues. Good comparison to where we are in relation to the rest of Europe.

[eekers]

The problem isn't really our league structure. Its our underage structure. Our underage clubs aren't in the business of developing players. They're in the business of winning game. They enter underage tournaments and bullying foreign teams with physicality. They're delighted they beat a premier league underage club, who weren't even playing for a result in the first place.

[barney]

The problem isn't really our league structure. Its our underage structure. Our underage clubs aren't in the business of developing players. They're in the business of winning game. They enter underage tournaments and bullying foreign teams with physicality. They're delighted they beat a premier league underage club, who weren't even playing for a result in the first place.

Everyone plays for the result.

[Dodge]

Everyone plays for the result.

You couldn't be more wrong at underage level

[barney]

You couldn't be more wrong at underage level

I don't believe that. I've never seen any team play a game against another and not give a sh!te about results. And I've seen quite a lot of underage football.

[Dodge]

I don't believe that. I've never seen any team play a game against another and not give a sh!te about results. And I've seen quite a lot of underage football.

You haven't seen it in other countries because they don't play in leagues until they hit 15/16. Spain, Holland, Italy. you know, the countries that win things

[barney]

You haven't seen it in other countries because they don't play in leagues until they hit 15/16. Spain, Holland, Italy. you know, the countries that win things

That wasn't the point I was making. Yes I agree some countries coach their young players until they hit 15/16. However, the minute that they go into a competitive arena, they want to win. The original post I replied to insinuated that the Spanish and Dutch boys play against our lads competitively and don't care if they win or lose as long as they play 'the right way' while our lads bully their way to victory. That isn't true.

[Stuttgart88]

The £3 billion TV deal with more international £££ to follow is only going to further polarise European football, with the big 4 fighting among themselves for ascendancy and everyone else being marginalised.

UEFA allowing any cross-border league is fraught with all kinds of economic, legal, political and regulatory difficulties.

Even ignoring that, the financial improvement to smaller clubs would be relatively marginal in my opinion. No substantially greater TV money would come in and revenues would be dwarfed by England's. Dodge's point about throwing in our lot with the other Celtic countries is also valid, regardless of how sarcastically it was made.

My personal preference would be for UEFA to take the initiative with regard to the problem of polarised financial status. They could somehow restructure the Europa League along regional lines (NW Europe, Southern Europe, Central Europe, Eastern Europe for example) with generous redistribution playments made across all aprticipants with mandatory solidarity redistribution to domestic league clubs that didn't qualify. National leagues may have to become smaller to accomodate this, but although the concept is fraught with technical and logistical problems I think it is a template that could be developed in order to bring smaller leagues in from the margins without destroying the fabric of national competition.

[Carrigaline]

A Celtic league would be too much too soon. What we need is an all-Ireland league as it's quite clear that there simply isn't enough quality in either Northern Ireland or the Republic to sustain two separate leagues.

[DannyInvincible]

We're at a massive disadvantage because we haven't a league string enough to produce players for the national team. That bit isn't in question. But that problem doesn't exist because of the people involved with the league. it exists because of the people involved in Irish football with no interest in the league.

Look at Croatia or Denmark. Similarly sized countries but always have 4/5 home based players in their squad and practically all their players have started their career in their home leagues. For Ireland to stop relying on British clubs to develop our players (when they can barely develop the required level from English youngsters) we NEED to have a league strong enough to supply 3-5 squad players in every Irish squad. I genuinely think that the likes of McLean, Fahey, Ward, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and Coleman show that talented players can play here and still move on to the bigger leagues when they're ready. The likes of Keane, Duff etc will always go away early.

But of course I'll be laughed at as a LOI zealot and fans here will still look to the FAI to 'unearth' players like Green and Cox. Meanwhile fans in EVERY other country that qualifies regularly from Europe maintain their professional leagues

Agree with pretty much all of that. Not that I have any personal issue with "granny rule" players in our team - they're more than entitled to play and I support them wholeheartedly just as I support any other Irish player - but the fact we continue to rely almost exclusively on such players (albeit to a much lesser degree since the Charlton era) along with players who've been developed in the UK is indicative of a fundamental problem domestically. As positive a development as it is, having five or six players regularly featuring in our national team now whose roots are in the League of Ireland shouldn't be an exception to celebrate; it should be the norm.

[CraftyToePoke]

As positive a development as it is, having five or six players regularly featuring in our national team now whose roots are in the League of Ireland shouldn't be an exception to celebrate; it should be the norm.

Well, yes you are right, but at least we are now seeing it begin, compared to even a decade ago. And I think it is very much to the credit of L.O.I. that the amount of Irish players who have left it in recent times hasn't seen it diminished massively. Take (at a rough estimate the best 40) players from any countries national league in such a short period and then compare, that is what has happened to L.O.I. of late. But yet again this season there are tales of scouts watching certain guys at various clubs mentioned on other parts of this forum so it looks like it will continue to provide international options, and more of them hopefully also.

What would be nice would be for it to have more respect from the UK club supporting people in Ireland, as someone who has attended L.O.I. since 1987 I can see how once it was not a credible alternative, but it now very much is. The product is there, its decent. It will come though, if you walked around Limerick in my youth you would rarely see the clubs colours on people, now you do. Its coming.

What really doesn't help is the side containing those players getting humiliated in a major finals for the first time.

[DannyInvincible]

In case my comment is open to misinterpretation, I wasn't criticising the league. It's a credit to the league that we now see former league players feature in the international set-up. It's in spite of the lack of national support the league attracts. It is obvious that a poorly-supported and inadequate domestic infrastructure hampers our chances internationally and it has been so for years. But, as you say, better late than never we see some progress on this front. I would like to think that last night's results was a general penny-dropping moment, but that might be a bit too hopeful.

[CraftyToePoke]

I would like to think that last night's results was a general penny-dropping moment, but that might be a bit too hopeful.

It might, it might, we can hope so, or it might well be concluded that what we lacked was more 2 and 3G recruits from the much vaunted neighbouring league. That's the bloody trouble.

[Diarmo]

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

This is interesting, average attendances for European leagues. Good comparison to where we are in relation to the rest of Europe.

Good link.

As much as I yearn for the LoI to have better attendances, I really wonder how much it would help football development.

Look at Scotland. Their attendances are over 10 times what ours are, but their national team and quality of youth player is arguably worse than ours.

Really, what we need is a National Academy tied to the League. Like Clairefontaine or something. A place where young, talented players can train intensively, and still get an education (Basic Leaving Cert or something similar).

[peadar1987]

I'd be in favour of a Celtic Cup competition. If there was a committment to running it for, say, 5 years, and the TV rights were sold, or if necessary, given away to the BBC and RTÉ. I've said it before about an All-Ireland League though, it won't be a panacaea, it would be nothing more than a useful tool to use in promoting the league, and a chance for a few more away days with our clubs in fresh venues.

[the bear]

Good link.

As much as I yearn for the LoI to have better attendances, I really wonder how much it would help football development.

Look at Scotland. Their attendances are over 10 times what ours are, but their national team and quality of youth player is arguably worse than ours.

Really, what we need is a National Academy tied to the League. Like Clairefontaine or something. A place where young, talented players can train intensively, and still get an education (Basic Leaving Cert or something similar).

all the best talent would still end up in england though, the academy would just make the scouts jobs easier. without being able to offer a platform for a decent career its hard to see that changing

[BonnieShels]

Initially yes.
It can easily be tailored so that part of the process involves a period of time back with the loi clubs.
The more kids that get through the system the more will go to England but the more that aren't quite enough stay here. Standards will always improve when it is forced to by an influx.
It can only be a good thing.

My major gripe has been the obsession with pre u15/16 competitive football.
My brother plays u13 from next season. They'll win the league. With hoofball.
Everyone will be delighted. All I see every season is a missed opportunity.

[backstothewall]

all the best talent would still end up in england though, the academy would just make the scouts jobs easier. without being able to offer a platform for a decent career its hard to see that changing

What's the problem with that? If a kid is good enough to go to any of the big leagues, we should be encouraging him. There would be no point opening an academy to hold players back

[the bear]

i dont want to hold anyone back, my point is that they wouldn't be trained in the academy anyway.

bonnies point that with them in england or wherever their places would be taken by players who would otherwise not of received a place is a very good one.

[BonnieShels]

Scarily almost a year to the day of the Spanish Inquisition I made this post...

http://foot.ie/threads/152711-The-case-for-a-National-Academy

[Kingdom]

We're at a massive disadvantage because we haven't a league string enough to produce players for the national team. That bit isn't in question. But that problem doesn't exist because of the people involved with the league. it exists because of the people involved in Irish football with no interest in the league.

Look at Croatia or Denmark. Similarly sized countries but always have 4/5 home based players in their squad and practically all their players have started their career in their home leagues. For Ireland to stop relying on British clubs to develop our players (when they can barely develop the required level from English youngsters) we NEED to have a league strong enough to supply 3-5 squad players in every Irish squad. I genuinely think that the likes of McLean, Fahey, Ward, Long, Doyle, Hoolahan and Coleman show that talented players can play here and still move on to the bigger leagues when they're ready. The likes of Keane, Duff etc will always go away early.

But of course I'll be laughed at as a LOI zealot and fans here will still look to the FAI to 'unearth' players like Green and Cox. Meanwhile fans in EVERY other country that qualifies regularly from Europe maintain their professional leagues

Great post as always. Educating the kids as they're coming through the leagues would be a big deal I think. Using the current ex LOI Internationals as examples will help in that regard. Fahey is a great example. Really touted as a schoolboy, couldn't hack the pressure, came home, good career, went back when matured properly. Success story.

[Dodge]

Agree with pretty much all of that. Not that I have any personal issue with "granny rule" players in our team - they're more than entitled to play and I support them wholeheartedly just as I support any other Irish player

Just to be clear, I'm not against the rule. People like Kilbane are 100% Irish. What I have a problem with is the FAI trying to persuade guy in their mid 20s to become Irish

[backstothewall]

From the outset let me say I very rarely attend local matches. I am about to criticise the LOI/IL, but the criticism is intended in a constructive manner. The commitment of local fans can only be admired, but the tight knit nature of the local leagues is such that when one does criticise them the fans can take that criticism almost personally. That disclaimer stated, here goes

I agree with Carrigaline re an all-Ireland league, but there is a tendency to believe it would be a cure all miracle drug for the local game. That isn’t true unfortunately. There are other factors and wider issues with the culture of Irish football

1. We have a culture of winning, no matter how insignificant the victory
2. We waste talent
3. We don’t look outside the British isles
4. Ireland doesn’t take local football seriously
5. Local football doesn’t take itself seriously

1. We have a culture of winning, no matter how insignificant the victory

At all levels of the game, the first question we ask is “what was the score” It’s what we are interested in more than anything else. It’s the first question we ask our mates who play amateur football on monday morning. It’s the first question we ask our kids when they arrive home at lunchtime on saturday. This will never change I would imagine. It is simply impossible to re-educate every mother to stop asking that question. But it does create a culture of holding people back when they should be moving on, particularly with kids. Our junior coaches want to hang on to their best players. They will be delighted if they get picked up by Liverpool or Celtic, but they don’t want them to go across the town to play in a better team 2 divisions above them in the local youth league. Which leads me on to point 2

2. We waste talent


The problem isn't really our league structure. Its our underage structure. Our underage clubs aren't in the business of developing players. They're in the business of winning game. They enter underage tournaments and bullying foreign teams with physicality. They're delighted they beat a premier league underage club, who weren't even playing for a result in the first place.


Everyone plays for the result.

There is a huge difference between playing for something other than the result, and removing competition. Talent flourishes when it is surrounded by talent.

Many of us will remember the kid from school, or who went to school with our kids, who was brilliant. He never got picked up by a Man U or an Arsenal, but they might have looked at him, and we would swear that he was good enough. He got to 17 and hadn’t got a move, and buried his talent under Guinness and chips He probably doesn’t even play the game now. If he does he’s out of shape, but he has a first touch that means he doesn’t really have to be fit at the level he plays.

There are only a handful of clubs across the water with the resources to properly scout over here. I remember scouts from Aston Villa and Manchester United looking at youth players I knew, but I don’t remember many from Ipswich or Burnley. If that kid in your mind had been from somewhere like that in England, there is a chance that even though he didn’t make it to a Man U or a Tottenham, he might have been picked up by a local club League 1 or League 2 club, went through their academy, and might have made a living from the game. He may even have been a late developer and ended up playing at a higher level.

In Ireland he probably didn’t make it. Local clubs don’t have the money to invest in proper academies and what underage structures they have don’t put quality players together for them to thrive. Once you get to 16 it’s getting too late to be picked up and you’ve fallen behind similar kids in England and Scotland.

The FAI are realistically the only people who could run this, but we could do with a network of half a dozen or so regional academies where the best talent in Ireland can get proper training and learn how to play the game, where there is competition for every place from some new kids being scouted and no one can afford to relax. And if someone gets a chance to leave and go across the water (to Britain or beyond) all the better. It creates a chance for someone else to come in.

3. We don’t look outside the British Isles

We do not prepare our youth footballers to leave the British Isles, or even expose them to football outside these islands. There is rarely a chance to even watch a game involving 2 non UK/IRL teams on TV. There isn’t a single manager from outside the British Isles working in the LOI (has there ever been?).

In the academies I suggested above, we should have coaches from Portugal and Austria and anywhere else they place a high value on technical ability. In addition to football training, they should of course be getting an education. And that education should have a heavy emphasis on European languages. If you can teach a young football even basis French and German, it is going to open up the chance to make a career of football in not only the French and German leagues, but also in Austria, Switzerland & Belgium.

As it is once footballers leave the British Isles they might as well have fallen off the edge of the world. What video of McGeady in Moscow or Sheridan when he was in Bulgaria we could get mainly took the form of clips on youtube. A magazine show on TV highlighting the exploits of Irish qualified players around the world would improve this and make the rest of the world seem a more realistic proposition to young Irish footballers.

4. Ireland doesn’t take local football seriously

Ireland doesn’t take local football seriously. There is no glamour to the local leagues. You meet the players in the pub, you work with them, they live next door to your mum. What television coverage there is also lacks glamour as the leagues lacks stars. David Jeffrey is one of the most successful managers in the history of either league, but I met him once on the train to Dublin and he was chatting away to my partner who he knew through work about their day job. It’s idle speculation but I would imagine someone of similar status in the Croatian league couldn't travel on the train from Split to Zagreb without being mobbed by people wanting to talk football. In a society where anyone who can cook green beans, do up a living room or take their clothes off is a celebrity our local players and managers have a negligible public profile.

The TV coverage is poor. Not the games fault, but compared to GAA the coverage is amateurish and there isn't much of it. It's a big ask, but as TV goes digital the opportunity also exists to have a dedicated Irish sports channel. There is miles of great sporting footage in the archives that never sees the light of day, it would allow the big live events being shown on the RTE1 or 2 to have the option of Irish language coverage on the sport channel, and between Soccer, GAA, Rugby and other sports RTE already have more sport than they could ever show on the existing channels

5. Local football doesn’t take itself seriously

Perhaps as a result of the status football has in society, local football doesn’t take itself seriously in my opinion. I’ve known and worked with a few Irish league players over the years, and they don’t play for the love of the game, or even see it as a career. To the guys I’ve known it is a handy part time job that builds up the holiday fund or whatever. Despite the fact that they are getting paid, they generally only train on a Tuesday and Thursday. There are club sides working harder than that in the GAA, never mind the hours the county sides put in.

Off the pitch the local game doesn’t demand to be taken seriously. I'm not an expert, but I would imagine it isn't made easy for the broadcaster to cover a local game. Most grounds don’t even have the most basic media facilities. How many local grounds have dedicated commentary positions for example? Or proper mixed zones within the stadiums? I can't recall seeing them, although I stand to be corrected on that.

Facilities for the fans need a huge upgrade, particularly children. If you can get the kids interested, and involved their parents will follow. But much of the experience of going to a big game is absent for local games. On the walk to the stadium there are none of the people selling scarves, hats etc. You don’t get the smell of fried onions filling the air. They don’t see the players on TV during the week, so they don’t know who they are at the weekend. The players all have names like their parents and neighbours.

Irish people can be very cynical, and if the local leagues were given a re-launch many, most in fact, will probably look at it quite cynically. But Irish people go to Disneyland. They know that “Mickey Mouse” is actually a guy on minimum wage in a suit, but their kids buy into the illusion so it’s worth flying to Florida to see little Jack and Chloe enjoy themselves. Similarly if Irish kids see a guy from Portugal called Pedro Costa dribbling his way through the back 4 and slipping a ball past the keeper on TV, they will buy into it. Their dad may well know that he is no closer to the Portugal national team than Michael D Higgins, but they might still take the kids to see a game at the weekend. If nothing else it works out cheaper than going to see Man United or Celtic, and they can put the money saved towards the Disneyland fund.

The Belfast Giants have shown what is possible with the right amount of hype and glitter. On a good weekend they get more people into the Odyssey Arena than the 5 Irish league sides in Belfast manage between them. To watch Ice Hockey.

I have no doubt some of what I have said here is nonsense, and that I’ve made factual errors, but I think the general themes are correct.

[Stuttgart88]

...and you make the points very well.

I posted an article (Sean Scannel thread) a while back about the Crystal Palace academy and its emphasis on education. No 18 hours in class = no football. Worth reading. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Fully connecting the football pyramid is critical.

[BonnieShels]

And let's not forget the Danish League...

Backtowalsall, there's too much to digest there before lunch.

I'll peruse and comment properly in a min...

EDIT:

A lot of sense talked and concisely portrays most of what we have discussed on foot.ie since I joined in 2009.

First step unfortunately is the grunt work and we do not possess the people in the right positions who are willing to take it on.
God knows if I could I would get my hands mucky with making Irish soccer a better place but even trying to help out with my brother's team is a nightmare. I can only imagine if I or anyone else came along and started shouting to the junior teams, " You're doing it wrong".

[bennocelt]

As it is once footballers leave the British Isles they might as well have fallen off the edge of the world. What video of McGeady in Moscow or Sheridan when he was in Bulgaria we could get mainly took the form of clips on youtube. A magazine show on TV highlighting the exploits of Irish qualified players around the world would improve this and make the rest of the world seem a more realistic proposition to young Irish footballers.
.


off topic - but can you lay off with the British isles rubbish please

[backstothewall]

off topic - but can you lay off with the British isles rubbish please

What would you prefer? "Atlantic Archipelago"? "These Islands"?

All the alternatives sound daft.

[bennocelt]

What would you prefer? "Atlantic Archipelago"? "These Islands"?

All the alternatives sound daft.

Is it that difficult to say Britain and Ireland (you know, like the British and Irish lions)? or maybe you would prefer just Britain?

[backstothewall]

Is it that difficult to say Britain and Ireland (you know, like the British and Irish lions)? or maybe you would prefer just Britain?

How can someone leave Britain and Ireland? You can't leave 2 places simultaneously. That doesn't make any sense. Would you have been happier if I had said "As it is once footballers leave Britain they might as well have fallen off the edge of the world."? Because that sadly is the truth. I used the term British Isles to include our island.

The term is only awkward because people have (recently) choose to make it such. The fact that we are geographically in the British Isles no more implies inferiority to Great Britain than Tenerife being in the Canary Islands inplies inferiority to Gran Canaria. In my experience the only people who see things that way are Irish people with a chip on their shoulder.

Can we get back on topic please?

[bennocelt]

How can someone leave Britain and Ireland? You can't leave 2 places simultaneously. That doesn't make any sense. Would you have been happier if I had said "As it is once footballers leave Britain they might as well have fallen off the edge of the world."? Because that sadly is the truth. I used the term British Isles to include our island.

The term is only awkward because people have (recently) choose to make it such. The fact that we are geographically in the British Isles no more implies inferiority to Great Britain than Tenerife being in the Canary Islands inplies inferiority to Gran Canaria. In my experience the only people who see things that way are Irish people with a chip on their shoulder.

Can we get back on topic please?


Yeah so use "these islands" then not the British islands which some find offensive. Yeah its a pet hate, I admit that, but then i guess it does annoy me when Im quite often mistaken for a British person. Fine if it doesnt bother you.
And its also not the correct geographical term either!
Yes lets get back on topic - a celtic league, no, will never happen, why would it as there would be zero appetitie for it. Look at how the setanta cup is doing, crowds are low and I dont think the likes of Bangor city, a kilmarnock or a Celtic b team will change anything

[peadar1987]

Re: Backtowalsall.

Agreed, although I don't really think there's anything that can be done about LOI players and managers sitting on trains with the plebs!

There's nothing like a bit of glamour to drum up interest, especially among younger supporters. And the effect is multiplied the more teams get on board. Look at Shams, now they've got a shiny stadium, and are giving out the vibe that they're a "proper club". Clubs should be doing all they can to improve the matchday experience with all they can throw at it.

But that's not the main thing, the main thing really is retention of talent. I'm not sure of the legality of the situation, but can players' contracts be held by an academy? So young lads would go through the academy system, getting their education, from ages 12 to 18 or 21, the ones who don't get snapped up by foreign clubs take their talent to the domestic leagues, the ones who do will command a transfer fee, which will help fund the academy.

[backstothewall]

The thing that has totally killed of any prospect of it ever happening is Swansea getting into the EPL. If the Welsh sides playing in the English system could were in a league with Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, the standard would be an improvement for all concerned. But Swansea getting into the EPL big time kills of the possibility of getting the involvement of anything but League of Wales sides. It's in no ones interests apart from ours and for that reason it can't happen