Republic of Ireland V Croatia - Sunday, 10th June 2012 - Euro 2012 Group C

[Carrigaline]

Feel sick, lads :( We are obviously miles behind Italy and Spain, but for us to be comprehensively beaten by a team who I would only regard as being slightly better than us is just gutting. What killed us tonight is that the Croatian team were able to play with even more intensity than us. That combined with their technical skill meant the game was comfortable for them.

[Noelys Guitar]

Trapatonni specifically blamed the midfield in the interview he gave after the match. Whelan gave the ball way in some terrible areas of the pitch. And always looked for the backward ball even when we went 3-1 down. He should be able to think for himself no matter what instructions he was issued.

[gastric]

Depressed intially, but we have know have an choice. Play the way we played against Croatia or go for it like we had to in Paris which was IMO, the last time we played really well and to our natural strengths. I would rather we take this risk, rather than continue to play the defensive way we are presently playing.

Secondly, does anyone else hate, that when under pressure in midfield, Whelan and Andrews drop back directly in front of the central defenders and concede ground to the opposition midfield. I know it is tactical, but to me it is so negative and puts major pressure on our defence.

[bishbash]

I find it bizarre that people are shocked by the performance, we do not have a midfield capable of playing, they have had one good performance in two campaigns against what you would call top quality opponents. We are so shaky it's beyond belief. I keep hearing about this unbeaten record but we fail to ever acknowledge that most of the opposition were also Rans. And even against poorer opposition we refuse to pass the pass, rte showed highlights before the game of good play in our last 2 campaigns and every single instance was a massive punt up the field. Losing is one thing but at least be brave and have a go, a proper go that is, try get on the ball and put just four or five passes together. Simon Cox on the left hand side of midfield is the stupidest decision I've ever seen he was completely uncomfortable there. James McLean? A left sided player on the back of a good season or is that just crazy talk from me. I've had no faith in Trapattoni for a long time now and I never will. 1st major tournament in 10 yrs and no plan B. worse still not even a different idea.

[osarusan]

My views on it after going back to bed for a couple of hours, some of which was spent lying awake thinking about the game.

We lost mainly because of defensive mistakes. For the first Given was just too slow to get over. I was watching on a setanta stream, and at ht they made an issue of him taking another step to his right in order to be able to see the ball, but I still thought he was too slow. It was a looping header with no pace that seemed to hang in the air forever.

The second was a howler, but on my stream it wasn't clear enough to see if Ward was actually fouled or not - Beglin didn't seem to think so on Setanta.

I wouldn't blame Given for the third - the header hit the post, so I don't think he can get too much grief for not getting to it. The bounce off his head was just bad luck.

On Robbie's penalty claim, again the stream wasn't that clear - initially i thought the defender had got his leg to the ball, but Beglin, Drury, the BBC and people on here are sure it should have been a penalty.

So we had at least a couple of moments of bad luck go against us.

Having said that, I think that when a team does what we do and willingly gives up roughly 60% of possession in a game, and concedes control of midfield very easily, that team puts all its eggs in one basket - defending well. We didn't do that tonight, for any of the goals, regardless of luck, and we paid for it.

[geysir]

I thought we might get a draw if we performed, but neither was achieved.

Particularily galling was to see our back line outmuscled and all 4 of them reduced to nervous wrecks by a bit of closing down from the Croatia frontmen. No I don't lay all the blame on a midfield hiding, it's also up to Dunne to demand them them to turn up.
O'Shea is still not fit and after his awful performance against Hungary should not have been ahead of Kelly, a major error by Trap as well as playing Shay who was explicably poor.
Even with our low standards, Croatia still needed a fair slice of fortune, but the way we play allows for that fortune to happen.

I have no complaints about Andrews, the wide players or front players. That doesn't mean eg. that Doyle and Keane played well, but them not playing particularily well, is not the reason we are not playing well as a team.
Whelan needs a rest and Gibson deserves a start.

[mypost]

beaten by better team.

Such a shame, as at 1-1 I thought we were playing well

Which was it?


are you taking the **** tricky? spain and italy were both excellant today. croatia were better than us but nothing special

This the same Italy that got walloped 3-0 by Russia a few days ago? Trap has faced them before, and they couldn't beat him.

Croatia got all the breaks going. The second goal was criminally bad refereeing. As was the penalty not given. The third goal went in via the post and the keeper's head. How many times does that happen?


For the first Given was just too slow to get over. I was watching on a setanta stream, and at ht they made an issue of him taking another step to his right in order to be able to see the ball, but I still thought he was too slow. It was a looping header with no pace that seemed to hang in the air forever.

He was wrongfooted, and couldn't get back in time.

We lost a qualifying game, and apparantly we were out. But we're at the tournament now. We've lost a game, but we're not out. Yet. Get a result on Thursday, and it's all to play for in Poznan. It's going to be hard, but it's not impossible.

[tricky_colour]

In a highlights program on ITV they show clearly the Croat centre forward clip Ward'ss heel as he clears the ball causing him to slice it.
They also show Robbie should clearly have had a penalty.
Their first goal relied on a fluke which momentarily send Shay the wrong way.
So we shoudl have been 2-1 up not 2-1 down.
Even their 3rd goal had an element of luck rebounding off the post onto Shay's head.

However I think we could have defended better, we had too many defenders close to goal when we should have
pushed out wider and higher to deny them space to prevent the final ball coming in by winning it rather than
trying to deal with the high quality balls we allowed them to put in.


I feel more optimistic after seeing the highlights. We were undone by luck and bad decisions and I think if
we had a more attacking defence we would have faired better. Also I think we will find it easier dealing with Spain and Italy.

I will be taking the 12-1 we beat Spain - easy money :p

[mark12345]

SEPARATING FACT FROM FICTION (EMOTION)

A few facts about Ireland as I see them.

1. There are 15 football teams at the Euros. And then there is Ireland.

(We are not a football team. Simple as! And before you get on your high horse, we are just not a football team in the sense
that we play the game the way other countries do. We give away 65 -70% possession every game and are happy to do so. Who does that?
You just cannot call yourself a bona fide team going into a game with that philosophy.

2. A large portion of the blame for today's result against Croatia should be laid at the doorstep of all those who coach young kids in Ireland.

(We've produced just three players in the last 20 years - Robbie and Roy and Damien Duff. Our coaching system does not produce
technical players because the coaches have no technical ability themselves. If you can't teach kids to play football the proper way, ie like
Croatia did today, then go back to coaching school, or get out of the way and let someone else do it).

3. Where does the blame go?

(Trap cannot be blamed for the tools in his toolbox, because, as stated above they have little or no technical ability and they cannot
string two passes together. But the boss can be blamed for picking several bogus players = central midfielders Whelan and Andrews and full
backs O'Shea and Ward. They are the players he went with. He had his system we were told, so in many respects a good portion of the blame
falls on his shoulders. There were other options like demanding that his players play a semblance of a passing game. There was other personnel - Hoolahan, Wilson. Also, if all we had to offer in attack was hoofing the ball long, why was Keane picked for that role? Walters was the man because of his size. So why was Robbie picked there? Midfield ... yes, that's fine, but Robbie just isnt a target man, never was. That sort of tactic was tried by McCarthy years ago (with Robbie) and never worked. Yet years on we are reverting to a tried and failed system?

4. Today's result and the beating we're going to take from Spain, and possibly Italy, should be seen as a blessing in disguise. It could be the turning point in Irish
soccer, if we recognized that our system needs major surgery. But will we just ignore the inevitable and stumble on towards Brazil 2014?

[mypost]

SEPARATING FACT FROM FICTION (EMOTION)

A few facts about Ireland as I see them.

Today's result and the beating we're going to take from Italy, should be seen as a blessing in disguise.

Here's another fact for you. Trap's record against Italy:

P3 W1 D2 GF5 Pts 2

This is with many of the same players and system. Where's the "beating" going to come from?

[tricky_colour]

We woz robbed. :black_eyed:

[SwanVsDalton]

Not much to add. Gutting after an amazing day in Poznan. The team's body language after the third goal confirmed we'd never get back in the game. They looked too stunned and frustrated to rally again. In fairness, the manner and timing of the goals ensured they were real gut punches. The response could - and should - have been better but sometimes there's no accounting for inexperience and simple break of the ball. Everything that could've went wrong did go wrong.

[BonnieShels]

Not much to add. Gutting after an amazing day in Poznan. The team's body language after the third goal confirmed we'd never get back in the game. They looked too stunned and frustrated to rally again. In fairness, the manner and timing of the goals ensured they were real gut punches. The response could - and should - have been better but sometimes there's no accounting for inexperience and simple break of the ball. Everything that could've went wrong did go wrong.


Completely agree.


Currently in Glowny waiting on my train back to Gniezno.
It was a disappointing result but the wonders of Poznan helped. As did the Cherry vodka.

Also the Croatians and Poles are fantastic craic altogether.

[legendz]

3 terrible goals to concede. Joy at our equaliser was delayed and soured due to a phantom whistler. At the end of two terrible decisions. Just was not to be our night, no luck at all. Hard to be critical of Trap having brought an ailing team that shipped goals easily this far. Croatia had by far the better attack, though they had more luck.

[seanfhear]

I wonder how fit Given Dunne and O'Shea actually are ?

[mark12345]

Here's another fact for you. Trap's record against Italy:

P3 W1 D2 GF5 Pts 2

This is with many of the same players and system. Where's the "beating" going to come from?

And here's a fact for you.

In 1988 we qualified for our first major tournament. We played a pressure game and got some good results, but it was a pressure game (stopping other teams playing rather than doing anything constructive ourselves).

It's 24 years later and we're still not playing footall.

When is it going to change?

If you were happy with that hoof ball performance yesterday then good luck to you.

Bottom line - we have accepted mediocrity in our coaches and players for way too long, while other small nations like Croatia, Denmark, Israel, Turkey have knuckled down and decided to play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

[shakermaker1982]

It surely wasn't a surprise how we'd play though is it Mark? We've played hoofball for 4 years under the Trap.

We always cough up chances. Previous teams have been wasteful but Croatia were clinical last night. The warning signs were there for all to see when the Hungarians played us off the park. Changes need to be made. Shake the team up a little.

[legendz]

I find it bizarre that people are shocked by the performance, we do not have a midfield capable of playing, they have had one good performance in two campaigns against what you would call top quality opponents. We are so shaky it's beyond belief. I keep hearing about this unbeaten record but we fail to ever acknowledge that most of the opposition were also Rans. And even against poorer opposition we refuse to pass the pass, rte showed highlights before the game of good play in our last 2 campaigns and every single instance was a massive punt up the field. Losing is one thing but at least be brave and have a go, a proper go that is, try get on the ball and put just four or five passes together. Simon Cox on the left hand side of midfield is the stupidest decision I've ever seen he was completely uncomfortable there. James McLean? A left sided player on the back of a good season or is that just crazy talk from me. I've had no faith in Trapattoni for a long time now and I never will. 1st major tournament in 10 yrs and no plan B. worse still not even a different idea.
Agreed, there should be no surprise. Even before the first goal in those first few minutes, there was no surprise with the pattern of play. I'm not going to be critical of the midfield when other options did not turn up to Macedonia last year. Still, we were outplayed in midfield.

We need good performances now like Croke Park against Italy and Paris against France. When we lost to France in Croke Park, it was over, impossible to turn it around. We got some response from the lads. We'll need that again.

[gilberto_eire]

Which was it?



This the same Italy that got walloped 3-0 by Russia a few days ago? Trap has faced them before, and they couldn't beat him.


If you want to use like for like, we were fortunate to draw with the mighty Hungry a few days ago.



Croatia got all the breaks going. The second goal was criminally bad refereeing. As was the penalty not given. The third goal went in via the post and the keeper's head. How many times does that happen?


How often?... it happens just about every single time you cough up the ball so cheaply. ''The more you practice, the luckier you get'' so if any team prods around your half for that long something will stick for them eventually.
One of two things happened:
1.We win possession, clear it down the wings from wing back. Croats had a 50/50 chance to retrieve.
2.We backed off them until they reached our box, coupled with the fact everyone far too deep meaning when we won the ball
our players had 1/2/3 closing them down and they were forced to kick it long to the half way line where it was retrieved by a Croat defender sitting pretty on the half way line.

My recollection of the second goal tells me we had ELEVEN players defending the corner, the clearance fell to a Croat with all the time in the world to recycle the play.

Brady said after the game Trap doesn't tell his full backs to kick it away.... maybe he doesn't. But at the end of the day Trap is picking players who are doing it.
Could we beat Italy and Spain?..... I think we could but not with what we brought with us and not by kicking the ball straight back to the opposition and letting them bring it to our box.

I thought we were better after the subs, qualifying and participating are completely different. We've watched that 11 play that way against Slovakia, Russia etc and never win a game. The whole script should have been ripped up after qualifying. I've no doubt the only reason McCarthy dropped out of the squad was to avoid being a bench warmer for the summer when his father was sick, I'd bet he'd have played if he was a starter, which he should be as it's mainly the CM links that are killing us here.

He might have got us there(we got lucky getting Estonia and Armenia nearly beat us to 2nd) but I don't think Trap is giving us our best shot at this, we are not as bad as we've been showing in top qualifiers and that last night.

They have Modric?... we have Keane.

[legendz]

If you want to use like for like, we were fortunate to draw with the mighty Hungry a few days ago.


A defeat there might have been a kick up the... needed. No lessons were learned.

[Real ale Madrid]

Nothing much to add that has not been said - except that I thought the header for the first Mandzukic goal was a really superb header. Yes it was a poor goal to concede from our point of view - but if one of our lads headed a ball of that quality from about 15 yeards out, into the bottom corner, while stumbling, we would be singing his praises to the rafters!

I agree with people who say that this was coming a bit - as we have been coughing up lots of chances lately - It may not have been much harm getting a tanking in one of the friendles, - defeat always focuses the mind, - not sure if it would have made much difference. But we certainly had a false confidence going into the game, which was cruelly exposed.

I must say I admire the likes of mypost and tricky who seem to have unfailing confidence in Trapatoni and his tactics, when the reality surely points to two more defeats in the remaining games. Would love, I mean LOVE to eat my words - but I can't see us getting a point in either game from here.

I was at the Italy game in Liege last summer, and I was impressed by the way we defended against them that night - but that was only an end of season kick around, hardly relevant to what will happen Monday night. If we cough up 80% possession to Spain as is likely Thursday then its going to take some sort of minor miracle to get a result.

[legendz]

I must say I admire the likes of mypost and tricky who seem to have unfailing confidence in Trapatoni and his tactics, when the reality surely points to two more defeats in the remaining games. Would love, I mean LOVE to eat my words - but I can't see us getting a point in either game from here.

I've admiration for that as well. We need to rediscover how we played v Italy in Croke Park and the response in Paris to a first-leg defeat in Croke Park where we were equally poor.

[Wolfie]

Bitterly disappointing performance. Sadly, we were 2nd best all over the pitch and the Croats deserved the win.

Mandzukic and Jelavic terrorised our defence. Our back 4 looked nervy and vulnerable and the Croats sensed it.

I'm still a little unsure as to how good or bad the Croats defence is as we barely tested them for huge periods of the game.

Certainly, there were elements of bad luck but the manner in how we approached the game tactically and its execution, leaves your team at the mercy of such tough breaks.

Is anyone seriously surprised that our midfield was 2nd best??? Andrews played quite well but Whelan had a poor game. I'd suggest Gibson could start against Spain. The big question is if Whelan and Andrews will remain also.

We can't march, lemming like, towards the Spanish game without attempting to resolve some of the glaring problems that were exposed yet again last night.

Unfortunatly, the time, place and personnel to resolve many of these issues should have happened gradually over the last 2 years.

In trying to find some optimism, we've been forced to manage of expectations now. Noone gives us a hope of qualifying now. This may alleviate some pressure on the team and may free them up to produce a better performance against Spain.

We're down, we're bloodied but we can't just give up.

Come on Ireland - give it a f**king lash!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Philly]

Watched chunks of the game again today with more sober eyes. It struck me how nervous or edgy our players were right from the off. Perhaps they were overawed a little with the occasion and atmosphere.

[geysir]

Our back 4 were bullied by the physical intensity and shirked an appropriate reciprocation until after the serious damage had been done.
A player like Jelavic has to be respected because of his quality but that doesn't mean I wouldn't elbow him or stab the knee into his back with every challenge and without the slightest pang of conscience. Croatia treated that game with the physical intensity of a derby.

[backstothewall]

There where times last night when it was crying out for one of our midfielders to come onto the ball and have a crack at goal from outside the box. Gibson has never been lacking in that regard.

[shakermaker1982]

Croatia weren't afraid to go direct themselves at times.

Cannot believe we didn't put a few crunching tackles early on. Let em know we'd be in their faces. Whelan calls himself the dog of the team but played like one of those toy dogs celebrities have!!

[SkStu]

3 terrible goals to concede. Joy at our equaliser was delayed and soured due to a phantom whistler.

absolutely ruined my enjoyment of the game. I thought our goal and Croatias second had been whistled dead. ****ed me off.

Just a hard display to dissect in any real way. I'm just going to conclude that the team didn't turn up. Our defense, with the exception of Ward to an extent, was diabolical. Got themselves into bother when trying to pass between themselves and the alternative hoof to the front two was all too easy for Hrvatska to gobble up.

Felt Andrews was our motm. Whelan moved and passed like an 80 year old cripple. Duff & McGeady were fine but had no chance against a tactic that Bilic played which probably came from A Dummies Guide To Football Management i.e. double up on the wingers when they get the ball. They never stood a chance.

Keane & Doyle were anonymous. That's about all I can say about those two. Where was Keane's leadership?

Trappatoni got found out by the rest of Europe last night. His substitutions were bizarre. If I had made the calls, Gibson for Whelan; Walters for Doyle and McClean for Duff.

Very disappointing. No passion, no desire, were they tired? No one can be proud of that display, least of all Trap.

[Closed Account 2]

Watched chunks of the game again today with more sober eyes. It struck me how nervous or edgy our players were right from the off. Perhaps they were overawed a little with the occasion and atmosphere.

I think that's pretty much the telling factor we have to overcome. Our last tournament was the WC in 2002. Croatia were also there, but in the intervening years under Stan, Kerr and the final years of McCarthy we failed to get to Euro 2004, the World Cup in 2006, Euro 2008 and the last World Cup. Croatia made it to all of those except the last world Cup. Going back before that they missed Euro 2000 but got to France 98 and Euro 96 (we didnt get to any of those three). When it comes to tournament football we only really have Given, Keane and Duff who've been in a tournament, and that was 10 years ago. Dunne went as well, but didn't play.

[nigel-harps1954]

There where times last night when it was crying out for one of our midfielders to come onto the ball and have a crack at goal from outside the box. Gibson has never been lacking in that regard.

Spot on. We're too afraid of a shot. Spain and Italy will be at it all day.

[SkStu]

We were clearly very nervous but it didn't seem to pass which is strange. The idea is that you play your way out of the nervousness. It didn't happen.

[CMcC]

Our back 4 were bullied by the physical intensity and shirked an appropriate reciprocation until after the serious damage had been done.
A player like Jelavic has to be respected because of his quality but that doesn't mean I wouldn't elbow him or stab the knee into his back with every challenge and without the slightest pang of conscience. Croatia treated that game with the physical intensity of a derby.

What he said.

We all know we don't have a midfield to compete at this level. We also know we cannot retain possession like most half decent sides. Most of us know we cough up chances against most sides and it appears we usually cannot beat the top sides at all, when it really matters.

But the one thing I would have expected of us is to match the intensity of the oppositon and to not get bullied physically.

IMO Croatia won last night not becaude of systems or tactics, not because of refs decisions, or just bad Irish luck, and not because of Modric. They won because they wanted it more, were prepared to work harder than us and were happy to pressure us far up the pitch.

Yes they had technically more gifted players but, by God, did they work hard. Every time we got the ball to the full backs or even if our centre backs attempted to bring the ball out, their attackers and wingers pushed up and really put pressure on the Irish player with the ball. They knew we would just hoof it or mis place a pass as we dont have the quality in our players and when put under pressure that becomes much more aparent. They knew if they put pressure on us in our own half we would cough up possession and they could just start again.

Not being able to physically compete (their big centre forward bullied our centre backs all night) and seemingly not being able to at least kick people, work hard and match their intensity was, for me, the most disspaointing thing about us last night.

You dont need top quality to do that. I mean McGeady left Ward's arse hanging out every single time. If he isnt prepared to work in a tourny then he's no good to us. Keane was not involved. Doyle at least put it about, ran the channels, dragged Corluka across the line and won freekicks, which is his game after all. Surpriosed he came off when he did (I would have called Keane ashore). Andrews tried hard but the rest just didnt front up and thats unacceptable.

Roll on Spain.

[legendz]

What he said.

We all know we don't have a midfield to compete at this level. We also know we cannot retain possession like most half decent sides. Most of us know we cough up chances against most sides and it appears we usually cannot beat the top sides at all, when it really matters.

But the one thing I would have expected of us is to match the intensity of the oppositon and to not get bullied physically.

IMO Croatia won last night not becaude of systems or tactics, not because of refs decisions, or just bad Irish luck, and not because of Modric. They won because they wanted it more, were prepared to work harder than us and were happy to pressure us far up the pitch.

Yes they had technically more gifted players but, by God, did they work hard. Every time we got the ball to the full backs or even if our centre backs attempted to bring the ball out, their attackers and wingers pushed up and really put pressure on the Irish player with the ball. They knew we would just hoof it or mis place a pass as we dont have the quality in our players and when put under pressure that becomes much more aparent. They knew if they put pressure on us in our own half we would cough up possession and they could just start again.

Not being able to physically compete (their big centre forward bullied our centre backs all night) and seemingly not being able to at least kick people, work hard and match their intensity was, for me, the most disspaointing thing about us last night.

You dont need top quality to do that. I mean McGeady left Ward's arse hanging out every single time. If he isnt prepared to work in a tourny then he's no good to us. Keane was not involved. Doyle at least put it about, ran the channels, dragged Corluka across the line and won freekicks, which is his game after all. Surpriosed he came off when he did (I would have called Keane ashore). Andrews tried hard but the rest just didnt front up and thats unacceptable.

Roll on Spain.

I think Trap was making that point to be fair when he was talking about personality. Regards the midfield though, at this level maybe it should be filled with another midfielder when we clearly can't compete?

[bishbash]

Let's be honest here for over 3 yrs now we've asked about what's the alternative game plan, there just is none. Carbon copy players called up I mean what does Paul green offer? I fully accept traps idea that we are going to be a side that's set up to be difficult to beat but the criminal thing is we don't even pick the best players for this system. McCarthy should have been more involved throughout wether he had travelled or not, I fail to see what whelan or Andrews can to that McCarthy can't, however McCarthy can do a lot that the current pairing can't such as retain possession and pass. Trap talks about being prepared yet we look so disorganised and devoid of ideas last night you have to wonder was anything else worked on in the last 4 yrs other than the system. Cox on the left, anyone else see that coming? Bizarre stubborn man.

[seanfhear]

If Trap cannot see that we need a bit of creativity in midfield after that performance then all is lost. The very minimum is that Gibson must come in and McGeady makeway and change to 433 or 451.

[geysir]

I presume the thinking behind Cox at LM was that he perform some function there but get into the box for the scoring opportunities. It was a misplaced act of positivity from Trap that didn't pay off and looks more stupid in hindsight. The chances of it paying off were anyway slim. A more solid impetus would have come from McClean who probably isn't smart enough to suffer from a thing like nerves :)

[Charlie Darwin]

I presume the thinking behind Cox at LM was that he perform some function there but get into the box for the scoring opportunities.
This is known as playing in the 'false Keogh' role.

[shakermaker1982]

Hodgson has had England for 6 weeks & I was impressed with how they stuck to their shape.

It's boring, the type of football I hate but that kind of organisation would have got us a point last night.

[youngirish]

Jaysus Stephen Ward is bad. Come back Ian Harte all is forgiven.

[elroy]

Hodgson has had England for 6 weeks & I was impressed with how they stuck to their shape.

It's boring, the type of football I hate but that kind of organisation would have got us a point last night.

Agreed. Was thinking the level of organisation and two banks of four they displayed today was very similar to how we have defended under Trap in the past. Unfortunately that all went awry last night. Lets hope it returns on Thursday.

[pineapple stu]

Bloody hell. Staying up till 2:45am, drinking E10 pints to settle the nerves, and then that!

Strange game though. One - maybe two - freak goals (yeah, there was so much space for the first one, but still, as Real Ale said, try heading like that getting up off your knees again) and a goal I'd be interested on the offside implications of. Add in a clear penalty for us and yet...we got what we deserved overall. So far behind Croatia it wasn't funny. And to cap it all off, Italy played really well against Spain. I think we've actually got more of a chance against Spain than Italy; Spain are still the same ticky-tacky-crap side who'll have 82% of possession, complete 97% of passes and have two shots on target. Really, really frustrating side to watch because they could be unbelievable. But without Villa, they're a different proposition altogether.

Hard to see anything other than a couple of goal defeats in the next two games as well. But may as well enjoy them, cos it's going to be a long time till we're back at a major finals.

[mypost]

I must say I admire the likes of mypost and tricky who seem to have unfailing confidence in Trapatoni and his tactics, when the reality surely points to two more defeats in the remaining games. Would love, I mean LOVE to eat my words - but I can't see us getting a point in either game from here.


The reality is we were doing fine against Croatia until just before half time, which clearly should have been a free kick for us. There were 3 officials watching it. If they can't spot what happened, they shouldn't be there.

I have full confidence in Trap, because of what he's achieved elsewhere in the past, and by dragging our bunch of second rate players to within a handball of a WC spot, and to these finals. We're not there through our technical ability, but through our strengths, i.e. discipline, teamwork, and a refusal to cave in. Other countries don't have those qualities. If you want to go back to drawing in Liechtenstein, and conceding 5 in Cyprus for the sake of more "entertaining" football, there are other coaches out there for you.

The other reality is, we're one point off a qualifying spot with 2 games to go. We wouldn't throw the towel in that situation in the qualifiers, and we're not going to start now.

[geysir]

Hodgson has had England for 6 weeks & I was impressed with how they stuck to their shape.

It's boring, the type of football I hate but that kind of organisation would have got us a point last night.
There's very little difference between our shape and 'them', except the England back 4 were ironed out neatly along a slide rule, the midfield 4 just ahead of the back 4 along a parallel line. Our lines of 4 have been drawn along a country road with a few potholes.

[Stuttgart88]

There's a difference between our style of lining up behind the ball and the "organised defensive" set-up deployed by England, Denmark, Chelsea etc. that has yielded results recently. The difference is that the others also press the man on the ball, whereas we stand off. Croatia were allowed plenty of time to pick each other out and work the ball wide. At least Spain and Italy won't have Croatia's threat in the air. Jeepers, those Croatians were huge.

[OwlsFan]

Just back from the game. Overall I thought we did ok against No. 8 in the world. Was there a poll where 82% of people though we would qualify for the next round? Unbelievable.

With a modicum of luck we could have come out of that game with a 1-1 but when the opposition score three what I would describe as bizarre goals you will never get anything out of a game. When you don't get the breaks and you lose then everything is black, the players are useless, the manager is at fault. Such are the fine lines between success and failure. Goal one huge deflection off the back of O'Shea puts the ball on the player's head who slips but manages to steady himself and Given unsighted. Ireland fight back and equalise. Goal two we all know about (possible offside but foul on Ward). Goal should NOT stand. Goal three hits post and not going in until Shay heads it in. Such are the margins between 1-1 draws and seemingly outplayed losses.

The Croatians were better yes, did any of us expect anything different? But I didn't think the gap was as big as at the Aviva where they were the far superior side. We didn't play well but we did bring the Croats down to our level which is what we do well.

Saw some of the Panel discussion about us giving the ball away by the hump upfield. Their first goal was caused by some Gilesean inter-play by the back 4 resulting us in losing the ball in our own half and......the EXACT sort of thing Jack and Trap always tried to eliminate. I have heard Giles say in the past what have we to lose by such play - have a look at that goal Mr. Giles. A back 4 of O'Shea, Ward, St. Ledger and Dunne are not suited to Gilesean play from the back just as Mick Martin wasn't all those years ago in Switzerland (I think - some foreign field anyway). We have no Moderic to come back and collect the ball from them.

No luck then in the first game. I am sure that Trap was castigated for the Cox substitution but we could have brought Messi on at that stage and I am not sure we could done much to get the game back but if the peno had been given, who knows. It was a strange decision though. Since we score many of our goals from set pieces, Hunt is the best deliverer of a dead ball so I thought it might have been him to come on.

Well done to the Irish supporters. Excellent support and great rendition of the athem. SOngs are getting terribly stale though. "We all dream of a team of Gary Breens" and "Oh ah Paul McGrath".

Spain - something in my bones tells me that this could be THE performance of the Trap era (alongside Paris). Team down and out, public on its back - who knows but there could be something special.

[shakermaker1982]

There's very little difference between our shape and 'them', except the England back 4 were ironed out neatly along a slide rule, the midfield 4 just ahead of the back 4 along a parallel line. Our lines of 4 have been drawn along a country road with a few potholes.

The English players stuck to their roles unlike our mob. No instances of two players running towards the one ball and leaving a man spare behind (Ward and McGeady). Discipline was exceptional. Credit to Hodgson. Boring to watch but hard to beat.

[shakermaker1982]

I watched the game on ITV but keep seeing mentions of Ward getting fouled for the 2nd goal (owlsfan mentions it again there in post above). When was this? I've not spotted it myself.

[jbyrne]

Watched chunks of the game again today with more sober eyes. It struck me how nervous or edgy our players were right from the off. Perhaps they were overawed a little with the occasion and atmosphere.

i was only watching from the stands and my knees were knocking at the spectacle of the noise, colour and size of the Irish support. Looked at the match last night and the players faces during the anthems told how uptight and nervous they were. a big support like we had Sunday can increase pressure as well as being a 12th man. I thought the pressure showed from kick off and the early goal was the last thing we needed on the back of that.

heading back out to poland again in the morning and hanging on to the hope that we have a massive improvement on Thursday and that the Italy match can still mean something.

cant knock the players effort at all but i think 2 or 3 are not fully fit. for thurs I would like to see walters for doyle (likely), Kelly for ward (some chance) and mcclean introduced on the left after an hour (no chance)

[jbyrne]

I watched the game on ITV but keep seeing mentions of Ward getting fouled for the 2nd goal (owlsfan mentions it again there in post above). When was this? I've not spotted it myself.

RTE showed it quite well that his foot was hooked by a croation player just as he is about to kick the ball.

why are some saying Jelavic wasnt offside? wasnt he a good yard off from the Modric (?) shot? he then made no attempt to get back onside and thus benefited from being in an offside position when the ward kick landed in front of him.

[geysir]

The English players stuck to their roles unlike our mob. No instances of two players running towards the one ball and leaving a man spare behind (Ward and McGeady). Discipline was exceptional. Credit to Hodgson. Boring to watch but hard to beat.

Well I did mean (but maybe not express) that it took discipline to manage what England did and our shape was haphazard like a country road.
The obvious similarities are with the tactics and formation the difference is with discipline and execution.