Gaa 2012

[culloty82]

The opening week of the Football Championship went along expected lines, with Donegal, Galway and Limerick winning comfortably, though Louth found the challenge of Westmeath much heavier weather than they might have expected. But pride of place tonight must go to Longford - the league form suggested they stood every chance of overturning Laois, though it didn't look likely when trailing by six in the first half. A Barden goal, however, and tremendous character, drove the Midlanders on to victory, and with a favourable draw, they look to set to have a brilliant summer in both codes, with realistic hopes of a Leinster semi-final.

[bennocelt]

What about Westmeath beating Antrim in the hurling? Result of the whole weekend!:D

[dantheman]

What about Westmeath beating Antrim in the hurling? Result of the whole weekend!:D Shocker alright!

[joeSoap]

Shock number 2 coming up at 4.00pm in Thurles on Sunday when Limerick give it to the Tipperary crowd... C'mon Limerick!!! :-)

[NeverFeltBetter]

The Limerick Hurling team have a really awful fitness problem, consistently playing poor in the final 10-15 minutes of games in the last few championship seasons. I was at the Gaelic Grounds when they were leading Clare by 8 points with around 20 minutes left and lost by 2 and it was almost a mirror image against Tipp.

You could just tell, around the 55-60 minute mark, how Tipp seemed to step it up a gear and just cruise to victory, but it was really just Limerick falling away. I'm not sure if Carey's departure was really to do with that problem or not, but it is something that Limerick simply have to work on. It's so frustrating watching them throw away leads. There is a really good team there, they just need to go the distance.

I'm not sure how the draw for the qualifiers is actually going to work, but from my reading (and if results go as expected) Limerick will be in a pot with Antrim, Carlow, Laois, Westmeath and Wexford. All teams that we can beat. After that though, we're punching above our weight against the (possible) likes of Dublin, Clare, Offaly, Cork. 1/4 finals of the All-Ireland seems to be the goal, but I can't see Limerick getting that far.

[Lim till i die]

Limerick will have a right belt off the qualifiers IMO if the attitude is right (granted that's a fairly big if!), their fitness will only improve as the Championship goes on. I think a lot of teams won't fancy drawing Limerick. People forget Tipp are the only team in the country to touch Kilkenny in the last few years.

I wouldn't pay too much heed to Careys carry on (not to belittle his contribution down the years)

There was some very frustrating aspects about yesterday though. Like clearly Allens plan is to have them hitting peak for the latter qualifiers but what's wrong with trying to have them fit for the first round of Munster?! Haven't won a Munster Championship match in 5 years now. Some of the decisions were bizare as well. Taking Downes off just as he was starting to break good ball was madness especially with Breen still left on the field despite being finished. Breen had a very good game without the ball keeping Maher quiet but he was very poor as an attacking threat and by the time Downes was taken off his legs were completely gone. Moving Dowling in from the half forwards was a daft move aswell. And as for bringing on Brian Geary?! Roasted for a couple of points. The puck outs were shocking as well and it should have been changed a lot earlier.

But wait I'm supposed to be being positive?! :p

The work rate of the full back line was immense. Richie McCarthy, despite all the pre match hype held his own. We have some exciting young forwards, the forward line in general was very efficient, only four or five wides and only one bad one I can remember (from a clearly unfit Hannon) Dowling looks to be something we've been lacking since the days of Gary Kirby - a competent, composed, free taker. Browne controlled the midfield for long periods, ably assisted by the much maligned James Ryan, who I thought won some good dirty ball. Overall if (another massive if!!) the county can keep from imploding for a couple of years the future is actually fairly bright for Limerick hurling. :eek:

[NeverFeltBetter]

Not winning in Munster no longer bothers me as much, since the provincial system is getting ever more antiquated and likely to be chopped at some point, but it is telling how poor Limerick have been in their opening championship game over the last few years.

Regards fitness, Limerick never really seemed to improve on that whole aspect of their play through the league, so I'm not confident that, the next time we play a "good" side - presumeably in the second round of the qualifiers, against a losing semi-finalist from Munster/Leinster, we won't just see the same thing again.

Some of the changes during the game did seem fairly poor, but I wonder if it was an acknowledgement of the fitness issue that saw some players brought off earlier then might have been expected.

There are many positives about this team, but the "imploding" issue never seems to go away. It's certainly the best squad since 2007 I think, but they're not up against much in that regard.

Carey's carry-on is indeed annoying to see, and I suspect he has the image of "Banisteoir Carey" in mind for 2014.

[Spudulika]

In a way the football starts today with Dublin's long awaited arrival on the scene - though is the GAA had a more developed sense of marketing (though it is very good as it stands) they'd have the opening match of the Championship with the reigning champs on show. Still, today I hope Louth can recover from the debacle that was 2010 and Meath's lack of sportsmanship and that the wee county can give it a rattle. At least if they keep it tight it'll bode well for the qualies.

[BonnieShels]

So you want the GAA to have the Dublin match before their opponents were decided?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Limerick hurlers will play Laois in the first round of qualifiers on the 23rd, winners play Antrim the following week. Both games Limerick should be winning with a degree of comfort.

[BonnieShels]

My god Louth were gash today. But for greed on behalf of our forwards we could and should have had six!

[Lim till i die]

Gaelic Football must, MUST, be stopped.

And I say this as someone who actively supports the Limerick footballers, to the point of turning up at games v Kilkenny.

Can anyone pinpoint when exactly it became a painful, ugly, joyless, ugly, defensive, ugly, hand passy, ugly, mess??

As with most problems on this island. I'm inclined to balme Ulster.

Also, is it not becoming increasingly obvious that the top inter county players are using the winter break to pump themselves full of performance enhancing drugs?? Bomber Liston or Charlie Redmond would be chewed up and spat out these days!! Raised cheekbones and jawlines tell tale sign of growth hormone in my (admitedly fairly limited) experience.

Not having a massive dig at the GAA there either btw, it's obvious the rugby boys have been at it for years too.

[BonnieShels]

It's hard to blame Ulster in totality.
Some of the best football over the last few years has been played by Tyrone, Monaghan and the lads from Mourne.

Id be inclined to look further south to the cynical pair of Cork and Kerry.
Most play is directed to the half-forward line. The player in possession goes down easily and then boom. Point.

That they are lauded says it all. You can't play football against as Dublin Tyrone et al have found out at different stages over the years.

So then other counties adopt it and then we have what we have.

I think though that there is a sea change bubbling under though where teams are seeing that if you play enough football against it you can win out but you have to keep at it.

Anyway...

[Jinxy]

Gaelic Football must, MUST, be stopped.

And I say this as someone who actively supports the Limerick footballers, to the point of turning up at games v Kilkenny.

Can anyone pinpoint when exactly it became a painful, ugly, joyless, ugly, defensive, ugly, hand passy, ugly, mess??

As with most problems on this island. I'm inclined to balme Ulster.

Also, is it not becoming increasingly obvious that the top inter county players are using the winter break to pump themselves full of performance enhancing drugs?? Bomber Liston or Charlie Redmond would be chewed up and spat out these days!! Raised cheekbones and jawlines tell tale sign of growth hormone in my (admitedly fairly limited) experience.

Not having a massive dig at the GAA there either btw, it's obvious the rugby boys have been at it for years too.

And that's just the heads on the Hill. :p
Seriously though, you've a vivid imagination.

[nigel-harps1954]

You'd have to consider Donegal serious contenders this year after absolutely walking through Derry at the weekend. A much improved team from last year.

[BonnieShels]

They are doing what I said would happen all last year. When people criticised them I said that this was gonna be stage two. People laughed at me.

It's the standard Mickey "God" Harte template for success.

*watch as Donegal crash out of Ulster without a whimper*

I'm still tipping Kildare, as I have been for 3 years.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Today in hurling: Kilkenny win by 18, Limerick win by 25, Wexford win by 16. This sport has a problem.

[BonnieShels]

Well done Kildare for collapsing into a heap. They were muck.
Meath played very well.

We are making hard work of this game against the Yellowbellies.
Wexford playing very well though and playing some lovely stuff.

[passinginterest]

Massive bottle job from Wexford. Happens to that team far too often.

[culloty82]

Swings and roundabouts for our Galway posters - from Sunday's hurling brilliance to today's premature football exit. Happy days if you're from Tipp or Limerick, though, it would seem.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Best Limerick performance since the 2007 semi-final.

[apo11o]

Well done to the amalgamated side of Ballaghaderreen and Mayo on their win of the Connacht Championship.

[BonnieShels]

Stuck in Seattle for an Epic weekend.

If anyone knows of any decent bars showing the games live, let me know.

Tír Eoghain, Cil Dara agus Áth Cliath abú.

[nigel-harps1954]

Quite a comprehensive Donegal win in the end for the Ulster title. Surely All-Ireland contenders now?

[BonnieShels]

Read the reports. Seems the Jimmy Mac masterplan is working. Delighted.

Kerry v Clare? Come on...

Dublin v Kerry QF anyone?

[BonnieShels]

So Meath out if their misery. Thankfully.

Fingers crossed for a massive Clare upset.

[culloty82]

Well, the first 10 minutes were very competitive! Kerry v Donegal looks the hardest QF to call, maybe our experience of Croke Park will give the edge. Dublin practically have a bye to the final - can't see Laois or Mayo upsetting the odds, and Cork should advance after a struggle. Cork could upset Galway in the hurling, due to the Tribesmens' lengthy lay-off, and still not convinced by the Cats, despite their second-half display - Tipp could well take them.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The first 50 minutes were competitive. Then the luck of Limerick's full back line vanished. Really awful officiating display, disgusted with the Kilkenny lad complaining over his red card.

Suprisingly dissapointed, more to do with how this seems to be Limericks limit really. Next season they have to get beyond it.

[DannyInvincible]

Donegal have never met Kerry before in the Championship. I suppose it does make sense when you think about it, but it just seemed like a very odd fact to me when I first read it.

It's also now possible to get GAA streams outside of Ireland (not through official channels or anything, but still). Had never been aware of that, but caught live coverage of both quarter-finals on RTÉ yesterday here: http://www.wiziwig.tv/competition.php?part=sports&competitionid=315&discipline=other

[nigel-harps1954]

Cracking game today. As far as GAA goes, that was quality entertainment. Donegal v Cork in the semi-final looks like it will be another classic.

[DannyInvincible]

Really good game earlier. Nervy finish as Kerry closed the gap but a dominant performance by Donegal overall. McFadden has a great left foot.

One thing I've never understood about Gaelic football is this gung-ho madness of players racing up the field like headless chickens as the game goes into the dying moments, all whilst trying to hold on to a lead of a point or two. What they need to do is just kill the game, crowd the defence and pass the ball around amongst themselves - just to calm things down a bit - rather than allowing themselves to get caught up in the hysteria of the finish. I suppose if players started doing remotely tactical stuff that, you'd have pundits like Spillane complaining that it was against the whole ethos of the game. It always amazes me though as it's as if nobody has ever stopped to think about an effective strategy for a second.

[junglegym]

Keepers mistake today cost Kerry the match. We were ready this year to beat ye in Croke Pk. Cork are now certs for the All Ireland.;)

[BonnieShels]

Really good game earlier. Nervy finish as Kerry closed the gap but a dominant performance by Donegal overall. McFadden has a great left foot.

One thing I've never understood about Gaelic football is this gung-ho madness of players racing up the field like headless chickens as the game goes into the dying moments, all whilst trying to hold on to a lead of a point or two. What they need to do is just kill the game, crowd the defence and pass the ball around amongst themselves - just to calm things down a bit - rather than allowing themselves to get caught up in the hysteria of the finish. I suppose if players started doing remotely tactical stuff that, you'd have pundits like Spillane complaining that it was against the whole ethos of the game. It always amazes me though as it's as if nobody has ever stopped to think about an effective strategy for a second.

Donegal were doing that until that clown scored for Kerry then they had to go and get an insurance point or two.
Very impressed by Donegal's attitude bar one or two moments of idiocy and petulance but that would be expected up against the kings of cynical play.
Delighted for them. And glad to see Kerry shown up for what they are, one-dimensional cynical long ball merchants. They were very limited once Donegal snuffed out any ball going to the Gooch or Galvin.
Tactics were spot-on. they should have enough for Cork. Dublin-Donegal would be an epic final.

As regards Kildare-Cork. It was poor fare to be honest. A terrible refereeing performance by Joe McQuillan to match the two atrocious games' officiating yesterday.
I thought when Kildare actually pushed forward that they put Cork in a lot of Trouble. I think Donegal can take this Cork team as would Dublin or Mayo.

And on to yesterdays games.

Mayo were good... but Down offered nothing at all. Nothing. There was no pattern to their play at all. I can see why people are writing Mayo off already against Dublin. But we all know that every so often when they get to play Dublin they get brave and actually play ball. If we get a game an eighth as good as 2006 we'll be doing well.

And then onto Dublin.

I was never worried about the result but some of the substitutions were remarkable.Bastick off for McManamon and leaving both B Brogan and Donkey O'Gara on. Both were nigh on brutal. As was Connolly.

Laois have a right to be aggrieved at some of the decisions however some of what went on from the officials was unfathomable at teh best of times yesterday. Between awarding Laois frees early in the first half for Dublin players touching on the ground and then later on ignoring Laois players doing the same. The inconsistencies are maddening.

[DannyInvincible]

Donegal were doing that until that clown scored for Kerry then they had to go and get an insurance point or two.

Why does it continue to happen though? Are sides afraid of drawing criticism for "cynical tactics" or "puke football"? Do they feel some obligation to entertain the GAA audience with hasty end-to-end football until the final whistle? Maybe players just lose the run of themselves a bit and get caught up in the excitement as the volume of the crowd raises the tension. It's a regular feature of most close encounters I see and it just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Real ale Madrid]

Cracking game today. As far as GAA goes, that was quality entertainment. .

A sad indictment of the game of Gaelic football if you thought that was a cracking game - exciting if you are from Donegal alright I suppose - painful to watch from everyone else's perspective.

That said - I hope Donegal employ the same tactics against Cork and take Cork on physically - will play right into Cork's hands.

[nigel-harps1954]

Ah now, wise up would you, it may not have been a great free flowing football game, but that was as exciting a match as has been in an All-Ireland championship in a long time.
I'm not a huge GAA fan, I don't jump on the bandwagon for Donegal, I generally fizz out and not watch more than 40 or 50 minutes of a GAA match, but I was actually stuck to my chair for this one. Great viewing.

[geysir]

Why does it continue to happen though? Are sides afraid of drawing criticism for "cynical tactics" or "puke football"? Do they feel some obligation to entertain the GAA audience with hasty end-to-end football until the final whistle? Maybe players just lose the run of themselves a bit and get caught up in the excitement as the volume of the crowd raises the tension. It's a regular feature of most close encounters I see and it just doesn't make any sense to me.

The only dicey thing Donegal did in that period was the long kick out by the goalie to the midfield area, when a short kick out (if possible) is usually the wiser choice. It just so happened that Donegal won that ball. The important thing is to find your own player in space to receive the ball, if that eventually brings your team into an attacking position, then all the better. The game of course is frantic with a team like Kerry chasing only one point after being down by 6, Donegal defended well and didn't give away the free kick, no mean task with the undoubted ability of the Kerry player to transform the mildest of shirt touches into a clothesline red card foul :).
The cynical tackle when the game goes into that crucial period would be if Kerry had won possession from that long kick out and was rugby tackled, the ref (who is in a world of his own making) would have held up play for a minute to give a yellow card to the Donegal player (who would have run to the other side of the pitch) and not added on the time 'wasted'.

[DannyInvincible]

The only dicey thing Donegal did in that period was the long kick out by the goalie to the midfield area, when a short kick out (if possible) is usually the wiser choice. It just so happened that Donegal won that ball.

That was one instance of it. There was another; when a Donegal player (not sure of his identity) recklessly ran straight into a group of Kerry players and inevitably lost the ball when he could have gone sideways or backways and passed the ball off to one of the three free Donegal players standing in the vicinity. He was lucky Kerry weren't able to capitalise on his spillage as the ball was quickly launched forward to Curtin who was rash himself and put it wide, if memory serves me right.

I was speaking more generally though. It's a feature of most of the close Gaelic football encounters I see. Sure, it's great for entertainment, but it just strikes me as downright suicidal. Donegal weren't the worst offenders yesterday, nor am I singling them out. They weren't really that bad for it at all, bar the aforementioned examples. I'm just mentioning it as it's something that's always puzzled me about Gaelic football.

Indeed, McGuinness is a sensible tactician who plays the closest equivalent to "possession football" in Gaelic football, for which he's drawn much criticism from the likes of Spillane et al. I get the impression there's some sort of stigma attached to strategic/tactical-rather-than-skilful/entertaining play (see criticism of the blanket defence and "puke football"), but if people have a problem with such play, it's the GAA's responsibility to introduce rules to curb it.

[culloty82]

That's true, it was up to us to engineer scores, and for the most part we didn't have the precision of passing, accuracy of distribution, correct player positioning or indeed tactical acumen required to wear down Donegal, failings we've singularly failed to address in the last nine years. O'Connor will resign this week, to be replaced by Fitzmaurice, but that's of little benefit if club teams are no longer producing skilful players, no-one is capable of converting a 45 from the ground, or the county championship is ridiculously bloated. A second ten-year famine looks to be on the cards for Kerry.

[geysir]

Indeed, McGuinness is a sensible tactician who plays the closest equivalent to "possession football" in Gaelic football, for which he's drawn much criticism from the likes of Spillane et al. I get the impression there's some sort of stigma attached to strategic/tactical-rather-than-skilful/entertaining play (see criticism of the blanket defence and "puke football"), but if people have a problem with such play, it's the GAA's responsibility to introduce rules to curb it.

When you work it out there's not that much different between the game Donegal play and the other top teams, apart from that dire semi final game last year against Dublin.

Cork, Kildare, Dublin and Donegal are peas of the same pod, it's just that Donegal are more grindingly methodical, they do it better but get all the flak because they are the new kids supposedly bringing the game into disrepute. If only I had a penny every time the commentator says 'Donegal - blanket defense', when the other team are just as defensive.
The established teams including Kerry think that they have the divine right to foul cynically when the opposition is breaking out of defense, take out opponents by foul means, yet when the other teams do it to them they cry negativity. Kerry went at turbo pace to disrupt Donegal's passing out of defense and swarmed around the Donegal forwards whenever they got their hands on the high delivered ball. Donegal got the subs on in the 2nd half, finally got their passing momentum going in the 2nd half and stretched into a good lead while Kerry were at the last gasp of their first wind. From looking at Donegal in the championship this year, they don't play a cynical game. The team that played to stop the other team playing was Kerry.

[BonnieShels]

Spot on.

Though the semi last whilst on the face of it was dire was fascinating.
I left Croker like a bull but subsequent viewing and conversations tapered my anger.

McGuinness implemented what we will call stage one. He indoctrinated a philosophy into a panel over the winter and league of 2011. So when he had decided on his panel that suited the tactics and organisation he wanted we ended up with a militarily drilled unit who played simple effective ball and were a nightmare to break down.

In Ulster when they came up against teams there was no response. No one was ready.
Fast forward to the QF v Kildare; Geezer got ready. A different Donegal showed up. And gave us one of the most remarkable games of the year. Donegal had already overachieved when hey won Ulster. Getting to a semifinal was super extra bonus territory.
McGuinness at every stage of a game tweaks and changes and makes subsitutions when they need to be made and doesn't suffer fools gladly.
The only thing for Donegal last year though is they wouldn't have gotten away with playing against Dublin the way they did Kildare. We would have murdered them. So they sat back and implemented the so called blanket defence.
It worked. Mostly. Eventually the better team willed the scores out and I think it was for the best that Donegal lost that game as we will see in the next couple of years.

This year they moved into stage two. This was flagged in the McKenna and the League. Despite the dislike for the McKenna it helped Donegal this year.
Stage two saw the consolidation of what they had become masters in. Organisation. Now they needed to play football.
And boy did they. And with an intensity like no one since Mickey's 2008 team.

And that's what's going on here. It's a well trodden path. How anyone thought it was surprising watching the Ulster Championship that Donegal wouldn't be where they are or there or there abouts doesn't know ball.
Anyone who would call Donegal negative against Kerry on Sunday is talking crap.

On a note about cynicism. That was one thing missing from Dublin's game. We started using it last year. Not to the extent of the Masters of the black art Corkerry. Can anyone honestly believe that Cork deserved to win that semi in 2010? No. But they dis because we were naive.

[Real ale Madrid]

On a note about cynicism. That was one thing missing from Dublin's game. We started using it last year. Not to the extent of the Masters of the black art Corkerry. Can anyone honestly believe that Cork deserved to win that semi in 2010? No. But they dis because we were naive.

Dublin tried to match Cork physically that year and they got so tired in the last ten minutes of thet game they had to resort to consistant fouling just to keep parity with Cork who were pouring forward at the latter stage of the game. It had such an effect on the Dublin management they started training at 6 in the morning the following season.

The only team to beat Cork in the last 10 years ( apart from the Mayo abberation last year ) is Kerry, who know the way to beat Cork is to go man for man in the forwards and let thier superior footballing talent shine, the wide open spaces of Croker make this far easier than tight narrow Pairc Ui Chaoimh for this.

Taking Cork on physically is a bad idea I think - it plays into thier hands, Kerry showed by spreading the play and keeping the ball moving quickly they can be taken on. The Donegal / Cork clash will be interesting but McGuinness is going to need a few more tricks to get the better of this squad. Counihan is in the advantegous position of being able to switch things constantly because he has such a large capable panel at his disposal.

[geysir]

the wide open spaces of Croker make this far easier than tight narrow Pairc Ui Chaoimh for this.
That must be one of those camera angle illusions. Pairc Ui Chaoimh is the full shilling.

[geysir]

I don't see that Cork have more strings to their bow than Donegal (that doesn't mean they don't).
One big difference from last year is that Cork don't fanny about with the ball in their own half going sideways and backwards, even when under no pressure. They are more direct with their running game and find their way down the left, through the middle and on the right. That and their free kick expertise stands them above most/all teams.
I don't know about Dublin yet, just too inconsistent over the 70 minutes, their game against Mayo should be every bit as intriguing as Cork v Donegal.
I'd like to see Mayo get through to the final but just the fear that we would witness another collapse should they get there, whereas the Dubs (God love them) can walk the hype.

[BonnieShels]

Dublin tried to match Cork physically that year and they got so tired in the last ten minutes of thet game they had to resort to consistant fouling just to keep parity with Cork who were pouring forward at the latter stage of the game. It had such an effect on the Dublin management they started training at 6 in the morning the following season.

The only team to beat Cork in the last 10 years ( apart from the Mayo abberation last year ) is Kerry, who know the way to beat Cork is to go man for man in the forwards and let thier superior footballing talent shine, the wide open spaces of Croker make this far easier than tight narrow Pairc Ui Chaoimh for this.

Taking Cork on physically is a bad idea I think - it plays into thier hands, Kerry showed by spreading the play and keeping the ball moving quickly they can be taken on. The Donegal / Cork clash will be interesting but McGuinness is going to need a few more tricks to get the better of this squad. Counihan is in the advantegous position of being able to switch things constantly because he has such a large capable panel at his disposal.

Out of all that you pick up on the Cork thang. :-)
Tut tut tut

[Real ale Madrid]

For the Donegal Fans:



tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjQrnImT_k&sns=em

[nigel-harps1954]

Tis a good tune alright. Fair played to Rory for that one.

[BonnieShels]

I don't think I've looked forward to a game as much in so long.

Come on Donegal.

[BonnieShels]

What a game of football. Pleasure to watch.

[Real ale Madrid]

Massive congratulations to Donegal, a great display. Cork are up at the business end of every competition these days and Donegal had them reduced to rubble at the 50 minute mark, completely outplayed. 6 or 7 points would have been a fairer winning margin.