First Division 2012

[legendz]

It comes across something of the Invisible Division this year with only 4 games every week. Still though needs must and the 8 battle on.

After the first quarter, with 7 series of 28 played, are Limerick still the clear favourites? Waterford are a bit behind where I expected them. Longford are kicking on from last season and the Galway clubs are doing desperately. Tempted to speculate how an additional club or two might have got on but I won't go there, water under the bridge now.

[Mr A]

Longford: Have done really well so far and look likely to challenge. have they the depth to keep going though?
Limerick: Have slipped up a few times but still clear favourites to me as they have more depth and quality than anyone else. It's only to be the procession most of us expected though. May be reversing their usual tendency to start well and fade.
Wexford: Super start for a team most expected to really struggle. Can they keep it up? I have no idea as I know feck all about their squad or manager!
Harps: Maddeningly inconsistent and atrocious defensively when Hutton does not play. Have added a bit more depth since the start of the season but key injuries or suspensions will be a major problem.
Athlone: Doing OK. May well continue to do OK.
Waterford: Bit of a nightmare. Horrible start and they seem to be incredibly brittle and so ship the odd hammering. I think they've been missing players so might improve when these return.
Salthill: Not very good. Might catch the odd team though.
Mervue: Also not very good.

Overall most of the teams in the division are capable of beating each other and things may well get tighter as they'll all know each other very well by the last series of games. Limerick and Longford look likely to pull away, and the next four will fight for the last playoff spot. The two Galway clubs look likely to stay where they are.

[nigel-harps1954]

Most of the clubs are awful. Harps aren't anything magnificent and are pulling off a few good wins and a couple of desperate losses.

Longford are the stand out team so far, and judging by reports aren't that great themselves.

Limerick should be head and shoulders above everyone but have been terrible so far, yet still find themselves in 2nd place. They'll pull away and still win the division easily.

Wexford being the surprise package, seem to be well drilled and have a good coach, but I don't see them lasting the pace. 4th or 5th for them looks likely.

Athlone are Athlone, will take points off teams, but are a desperately bad ball playing team playing beach football in Lissywollen.

2 Galway teams are absolutely awful.

It will be interesting as the season goes on whether or not Longford will keep up the pace with Limerick, whether Limerick sack Scully or not who in my opinion is holding them back with negative tactics, whether Wexford will actually shock everyone and push for promotion and whether Harps last the pace and sort defensive errors. Waterford can only go upwards at this stage, and I'm sure they will.

For me at this stage its looking like:

Limerick
Longford
Harps
Waterford
Wexford
Athlone
SD Galway
Mervue

[legendz]

For me at this stage its looking like:

Limerick
Longford
Harps
Waterford
Wexford
Athlone
SD Galway
Mervue

I expect it to be close between Harps and Waterford with Waterford possibly sneaking a play-off place.

[Jofspring]

Have seen every team in the division this year.

Longford: Are a solid unit (especially in defense) and can catch teams on the break but a few injuries may have them struggling a bit to keep up early form.
Limerick: Up to last Monday against Cork we were playing hoof ball and looked terrible for the players we have. Played good football against Cork and kept it on the deck all night against Wexford too. If we keep playing this way I think we will win the division. Scully has finally copped on and made the changes most the fans wanted.
Wexford: I was impressed by them even though they hadn't much of the ball. They are strong enough defensively and very dangerous on the break, Dempsey and Elmes are always a threat.
Finn Harps: I always expect harps to be a tough team to beat and they are continuing to be like this. Maybe one or two players short of being real challengers but I expect them to have at least a playoff spot.
Athlone: Ok team but a lot of inexperience. Tried to play football against us but lacked that cutting edge.
Waterford: Caught us on the break 3 times in the RSC and fought well. Going on their other results they are very poor and were just up for that derby game.
SD Galway: One or two decent players but will be fighting with Mervue for the bottom place.
Mervue: Have gone backwards it seems. Lost most their better players from last year but still always likely to pull off a shock result.

Still can't get over how small this division is. Christ it feels like only last week we were playing Harps at home.

[SPXcyan]

Waterford won't be challenging that's for certain! Limerick were unlucky at the RSC, they should win the league. Bitter year for us blues :\

[Lim till i die]

I'm not being funny cos there's a few Harps fans in this thread but Saturday will tell an awful lot with regards to Limerick imho.

The early season from wasn't great (although not as bad as some people would make out)

The Waterford game was an absolute freak, on another night we would have won 28-0, but on the balance of things two defeats out of the opening six for a squad of the strength of Limerick was totally unacceptable and the Longford game, where we deserved to lose, was the nadir. We shouldn't be deserving to lose a single game this season.

But the Longford game looks like it could have been a watershed. Scully, to give him his credit, made some tough calls that needed to be made, and if we play like we played below in Wexford (ie be pateint and not give the other team the ball) we will be fine, will win the division, and will win it with quite a bit to spare. If on the otherhand, when faced with a tough slog (which I've no doubt we will be Saturday) we resort to panic and humping the ball all over the field again then we will plod along til June, when a decision will have to be made.

On the other teams:

Longford are decent like we knew they would be. Not so sure about the back four being particularly solid. I like Haverty but a Chris Deans/Des Hope first choice centre half pairing isn't the stuff title wins are made of imo. Not sure how much depth is there either, time will tell.

Your man below in Wexford has done a really good job putting together what I assumed would be terrible. You can see how they've been getting their results, they are very hard to score against and have a threat on the counter. Also, they are MASSIVE, even their feckin wingers were six footers. A really good junior team basically.

Harps I dunno, results would suggest they're a bit flaky. They're always going to be tough, physical and well organised but when Peter Hutton is the answer you have some pretty serious questions!!

I like Athlone, they're not great but they're better than a lot of people were willing to give them credit for in pre season. If they get a striker scoring consistently and Kerley can get a few in in June, even convince a few of the decent Junior players in Limerick to come up for six months, I could picture them sneaking a play off. The sooner their pitch is sorted the better for them though.

Waterford are a mess. Senior players extracting the urine, a manager who seems a bit lost, it's hard to see how they'll turn it around. As a Limerick fan I remain wary of them though.

The two Galway clubs: Mervue haven't recovered from the cannibalising of what was a decent First Division team and SD Galway are just a bit meh.

[nigel-harps1954]

Would have to agree with what you say there LTID, only disagreements are with Athlone, who in my opinion are muck, but very inexperienced, and Peter Hutton, who last year was about 5 stone over weight, but this season actually looks relatively fit for a 39 year old. His experience is definitely shining through in the division this year and is only needed because our backline is so inexperienced and young with Keith Cowan missing. We start games now with two 20 year olds, a 19 year old and a 23 year old in the back 5 alongside Hutton, and in a few games that included a 16 year old goalkeeper, so you could forgive Hutton for having to step in and talk the lads through that. Cowan is back in 2 months, so expect Hutton to be making a return to the bench after that.

All else is very agreeable though.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Repeating what many have said already, but yeah, Limerick should win if they improve at all as they go along. I would guess that an element of overconfidence has played its part in the opening fixtures, and they just seemed to lose the plot against Longford (but they were bad before that). Game against Harps will be telling, they got the win at Jackman Park despite a really average performance. Limerick need to keep it low and kick it up a gear (against teams other then SD Galway).

A lot will depend on Limerick's "big crowd syndrome" and whether they can actually start getting good results at home to the likes of Longford and, I suppose Wexford for now. Also don't want them to be too distracted by things like the EA Sports Cup 1/4 finals. Promotion, in this kind of division, is all that should be accepted.

Longford, really good, better then I gave them credit for at the start, especially at the back and in the centre midfield. Made a show of Limerick away, but seemed to lose their way badly against Finn Harps. I expect to see them grabbing that play-off place. If Limerick continue to lose every third game, they'll top the league.

Wexford are impressive enough, but I can't see this run of form lasting beyind the half way point.

Athlone are hard to play against and could challenege for the higher places if they start scoring a bit more (six goals in seven games isn't it?). They're more used to their beach of a pitch then the other teams, which is an advantage anyway.

Finn Harps, good some weeks, not so good others, don't seem consistent enough to really challeneg, have some defensive problems that will haunt them.

Waterford having a really dissapointing season, plenty tipped them to be going for second or third, now look like they'll struggle to get ninto the top half of the table. Just seem to fall to pieces if things start going wrong, with the notable exception of the Limerick game, which covered over the cracks somewhat.

SD Galway might have changed their name, stadium and most of their team, but are still the same old strugglers they have always been. Can't attack, can't defend.

Mervue have taken a step backwards from what I can see. It's sad year for Galway football, with GU gone and the remaining two struggling so much.

Agree that the First Division is in a bit of a state with only eight teams. I know Limerick have been getting decent numbers (relatively speaking), but sounds like every other club is struggling to break 400-500. Going over the same opposiion so soon isn't going to help that.

[L.T.F.C.]

Its a strange one. We haven't been playing brilliant at all, apart from the Limerick game in particular. We have a few injuries to come back into the team too. Flood, Walsh and O'Reilly have been out all season. Hope got injured against Dundalk, as did Dowling.

I think we had that game sewn up against Finn Harps, until the red-card for our keeper. I wasn't able to go, but my colleagues said it wasn't a red card. I won't be able to make my own decision though. And the decision to take Gillespie off was mental.
Anyway, another 16-18 points this phase will do grand! :D

Just as an aside, MUTV will be videoing the game and interviewing fans and former player Keith Gillespie. More here (http://ltfc.ie/index.php/mutv-to-visit-on-saturday-night/)!

[thomas72]

Limerick have been shocking until up to a few weeks ago like what was said already scully finally has copped on and listened to the fans and prob the players and are now playing some excellant football 1pt behind and have not played anywhere good enough (until last week) they will win the league. limerick will sign big again when the transfer window opens if needed to get them over the line

longford i was impressed by them but i think a few key players get a injury could derail them but will claim a playoff place

harp sticky team best they can hope for is to fight it out with longford for 2nd

waterford very inconsistent cant see them doing much

wexford not bad but as above a few injuries and they will be in trouble

athlone nothing going forward very light in attack

SD galway worst team iv seen this season at jackman won 3-0 should of been 8 or 9 only for very poor finishing

mervue lost alot of there main players from last season pity they werent half bad last season

[da bishop]

with everything that is available to him scullys limerick should be winning this division by at least 10pts.longford look like they will have a go,a distant second if scully does his job properly.in what is the poorest division in god knows how long the rest will plod along aimlessly ,most trying to avoid the wooden spoon,sure...SDgalway will give that their best shot.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Yeah, the bottom of the table is so depressing to look at. Where's the motivation? Not just for clubs to give it their all, but for prospective fans to show up?

[Mr A]

In all fairness the third place playoff spot should be something that everyone but the two Galway clubs are capable of challenging for.

[legendz]

Decent response by Waterford to their opening game nightmare. It's like looking at half a table with 8. Agreed the top 6 seem all capable of challenging for top 3 spot. The division has taken a hit after having the likes of Shels, Cork and Derry in recent years. A competitive race is building up for promotion having the division back on a sound footing. Hope to take in the Limerick v Waterford game next week to see how both Munster clubs are getting on and see where they are at.

[gormacha]

The Waterford game was an absolute freak, on another night we would have won 28-0

It's difficult to take any of your subsequent analysis seriously when you make such claims. I imagine you're being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but nonetheless. Sitting deep and playing teams on the counter-attack is a legitimate tactic in football, and Waterford carried that out really well that night. You hit the woodwork twice and had a lot of the ball, but to suggest you overran us to the extent you imply is simply inaccurate.

[wonder88]

Was at the Salthill Galway v Atlone game last night. Not great entertainment, Atlone the best side for 3/4 of the game and missed a good number of chances that could have wrapped the game up for them. The Atlone number 9 look a useful player and was the one who stood out for me. Salthill came more into the game in the 2nd half and put Atlone under pressure in the last 15min (fitness may have been factor here). Quite a number of very poor players on the pitch and the crowd was 120-150; so no atmosphere in the ground and it is going to be very difficult to attract people to Terryland and pay 10 euro if this is what is on offer. Limerick should really walk away with this divison.

[atfconline]

It didn't help having no striker on the pitch for the last half hour - we could have had at least two more had Tommy Barrett up front not butchered them.

[PartySaint]

What did Waterford fans make of Kenny Browne last season? He has been immense for us so far this season, hasn't put a foot wrong. Probably surprise of the season so far for me.

[gormacha]

What did Waterford fans make of Kenny Browne last season? He has been immense for us so far this season, hasn't put a foot wrong. Probably surprise of the season so far for me.

He wasn't great last season, although no-one ever doubted his talent. Along with most of our squad, he seemed pretty much uninterested after our appalling start to the season. He was always competent (except, ironically, against Pats in the Cup, when he was comically inept) only very occasionally excellent, but no more than that, and there was a sense amongst the fans that he could have showed more leadership to lift us out of the mire. We felt we had the best centreback pairing in the division with Browne and Murray, but they didn't quite live up to the level we all felt they were capable.

A more accurate indicator would be two seasons before last, before he went off to Fingal, when he was voted Waterford's Player of the Year.

I'm not at all surprised that he is excelling at Pats. I suspect he's one of those players who believes he should be playing at a higher level, and ups his game when surrounded by better players, matching and even exceeding them.

[blue til i die]

What did Waterford fans make of Kenny Browne last season? He has been immense for us so far this season, hasn't put a foot wrong. Probably surprise of the season so far for me.

He was shocking and completely disinterested.

But we all knew he was a brilliantly talented player and the premier division is where he should be.

[Lim till i die]

I imagine you're being a bit tongue-in-cheek.

About my claim we could have won 28-0??

Well spotted.

All I was saying in a round about way was on the night, on the balance of play we deserved to win and on another night would have done so handsomely.

There's a big differnece between a defeat like that and a defeat where you're garbage (Longford). That's all.

Having seen the change in us since the Longford game I'm very confident now. We're bossing teams.

I'm pretty certain we'll win the thing out handy enough.

Almost as certain as I am that we'll blow up next week at home to Waterford and lose in front of a biggish crowd. :)

[wonder88]

So it was Tommy Barrett who came on up front for Atlone. The poor guy had a nightmare and he surely must be much better than that to be playing League of Ireland.

[bluemovie]

All I was saying in a round about way was on the night, on the balance of play we deserved to win and on another night would have done so handsomely

Meh. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are different ways of viewing these things, I suppose. Like did Barca deserve to win last week because of the stats or did Chelsea because they had a gameplan and took their chances? Debatable. We certainly weren't hammered as much as Chelsea were in that game and Limerick were no Barcelona. My view was that we were lucky, but deserved the win. Like Ali against Foreman, we spent a lot of the night on the ropes as Limerick punched themselves out, then sent on our best player (Maguire) for the last ten minutes to deliver the knockout blow. We added a third and should have had a fourth. All I'm saying is, we can each have our own opinion on that game.

[L.T.F.C.]

I don't think you can say that ye deserved to win when Waterford won 3-1.

[Jofspring]

We might not have deserved to win with the squandered chances but 3-1 was harsh.

Another thing you could say is that the Waterford fans thought it was a great performance and deserved the win after the game and thought it would really push ye on but after a few more losses and draws the same fans were saying ye were just lucky against us. Depending on how a team is going will change on how fans look at specific results. The thoughts of a great bounce back against us from the first result suddenly turns into we were lucky against limerick. After a good win against Wexford the confidence is now back up and the fans are back to thinking they could get a result against us next week even though only a week ago ye probably would have given yerselves no chance.

[sadloserkid]

I don't think you can say that ye deserved to win when Waterford won 3-1.

Are you seriously saying that no ever team has ever had an undeserved defeat? Like ever? I wasn't even at the game in question but that seems a hugely flawed statement...

[L.T.F.C.]

I'm not saying that.

[sadloserkid]

Enlighten me then, what point are you making other than 'I don't like LTID much so will contradict him whenever the opportunity arises'?

[gormacha]

Yes, sadloserkid, he hates Limerick. That was his point. That's all of our points.

Or perhaps we're just suggesting that in the game in question that Waterford did enough to deserve their win, albeit that they rode their luck in places.

[gormacha]

We might not have deserved to win with the squandered chances but 3-1 was harsh.

Another thing you could say is that the Waterford fans thought it was a great performance and deserved the win after the game and thought it would really push ye on but after a few more losses and draws the same fans were saying ye were just lucky against us. Depending on how a team is going will change on how fans look at specific results. The thoughts of a great bounce back against us from the first result suddenly turns into we were lucky against limerick. After a good win against Wexford the confidence is now back up and the fans are back to thinking they could get a result against us next week even though only a week ago ye probably would have given yerselves no chance.

That's all probably fair comment. Supporters of all clubs are always desperately searching for a narrative to their season ("we're fantastic!" "We're unlucky." "The FAI has it in for us."), and I suspect that the narratives they invent change constantly to account for every twist and turn, when no narrative can probably capture the vagaries of a long season. As a Blue, I have settled on "inconsistent", which seems to capture the wild swings in form that my team goes through.

What's Limerick's narrative this season? "Grossly underperforming in relation to squad and monies spent?" Or, "finding their feet, and likely to go on and win at a canter"? Or, as is more likely, a mixture of both, with loads of other subtelties that are rarely discussed?

[osarusan]

I was at the game - we deserved nothing more than we got. We had loads of possession but did very little with it. We looked superb for the first 15 minutes, then after we were denied a little space in the middle, we resorted to hoofing it long. 2nd half we passed the ball again, looked good, got our goal, got hit on the break, and resorted to hoofing it again.

[sadloserkid]

Yes, sadloserkid, he hates Limerick. That was his point. That's all of our points.

Where did I say he hates Limerick (or any of you for that matter)? Go back and read it again.


Or perhaps we're just suggesting that in the game in question that Waterford did enough to deserve their win, albeit that they rode their luck in places.

I absolutely accept that. From you. As I presume you were at the game. I wasn't and I doubt LTFC was either. His expert analysis is grounded wholly (IMO) in his feelings towards specific posters and has nothing to do with the game in question. Or you. Or I.

[L.T.F.C.]

Where did I say he hates Limerick (or any of you for that matter)? Go back and read it again.

Where did I say 'I don't like LTID much so will contradict him whenever the opportunity arises'?? Go back and read it again.




I absolutely accept that. From you. As I presume you were at the game. I wasn't and I doubt LTFC was either. His expert analysis is grounded wholly (IMO) in his feelings towards specific posters and has nothing to do with the game in question. Or you. Or I.
Where did I claim that it was expert analysis? It isn't. And that is a absolutely ridiculous opinion!

[sadloserkid]

Where did I say 'I don't like LTID much so will contradict him whenever the opportunity arises'?? Go back and read it again.

Ah the parrot defence, good man. I inferred your feelings on the matter from this post: http://foot.ie/threads/163317-2012-attendances?p=1587772&highlight=#post1587772

I don't think it was a particularly big jump on my part.


Where did I claim that it was expert analysis? It isn't. And that is a absolutely ridiculous opinion!

Where did I claim that you claimed it was expert analysis? :D I agree with you that it isn't though. In fact, regardless of what you think of this opinion, I think it's mindblowingly wrong (I had less fair words in here but settled on wrong) to state, with as much authority as you did that a team couldn't have deserved to get something from a game that they lost 3-1 that you weren't even at!

[L.T.F.C.]

Ah the parrot defence, good man. I inferred your feelings on the matter from this post: http://foot.ie/threads/163317-2012-attendances?p=1587772&highlight=#post1587772

I don't think it was a particularly big jump on my part.
I called him an idiot. And rightly so, it was a stupid post. Didn't say that I had any particular dislike for him, I don't really care.



Where did I claim that you claimed it was expert analysis? :D I agree with you that it isn't though. In fact, regardless of what you think of this opinion, I think it's mindblowingly wrong (I had less fair words in here but settled on wrong) to state, with as much authority as you did that a team couldn't have deserved to get something from a game that they lost 3-1 that you weren't even at!
I quoted you above.

It isn't mindblowingly wrong. I said that I thought that Limerick didn't deserve to win after losing 3-1. No authority there at all. I just said what I thought. I would agree with you if Limerick lost one nil, with Waterford scoring a dodgy penalty, or the referee kicked it in for them. Anyway, I really only care about my own club's results, so I've enough of this rubbish.

[sadloserkid]

I've enough of this rubbish.

Me too. Let's move on and put this behind us. :) :peace:

[Lim till i die]

LTID always gets at least a dozen replies :cool:

Sorry guys, the wording of my posts was very clumsy with hindsight.

The Waterford game was nowhere near as worrying as the Longford game performance wise.

There, that'll do.

It's all a bit moot either way (perish the thought of an internet argument being irrelevant) as for the last few weeks we've being playing like the expensively assembled superstars we are.

Anyways, I promise to try to be more careful in future. x x

[Lim till i die]

I don't think you can say that ye deserved to win when Waterford won 3-1.


I called him an idiot. And rightly so, it was a stupid post. Didn't say that I had any particular dislike for him, I don't really care.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/49/dawson_crying.gif

[Lim till i die]

Anyway, all that unpleasantness behind us, potentially big weekend ahead in the First Division.

If Limerick and Longford get the results they should then we could see an SPL type situation developing in the First Division with two pulling away at the top (bags Celtic)

If, on the otherhand, either Athlone or Waterford get a result they'll fancy their chances and the whole things a bit more open all of a sudden.

My prediction:

Athlone Town 0 2 Longford Town
Limerick 1 2 Waterford

[Lim till i die]

What's Limerick's narrative this season?

Not sure.

But I do know we've been paying Morgan Freeman $50 million to do all our narration.

[nigel-harps1954]

All your money and you'll still win f**k all....all your money and you'll still win f**k all...

[sadloserkid]

All your money and you'll still win f**k all....all your money and you'll still win f**k all...

We've a decent chance at the Munster Senior Cup. :)

[4tothefloor]

All your money and you'll still win f**k all....all your money and you'll still win f**k all...
You've no money and you'll win f**k all....you've no money and you'll win f**k all... :D

[nigel-harps1954]

Christ, I'd be awfully surprised if we won anything, but fact of the matter is, ye have spent hundreds of thousands, you'd want to be winning the division comfortably. Nobody at Harps expects to win anything.

[MMVIII]

Christ, I'd be awfully surprised if we won anything, but fact of the matter is, ye have spent hundreds of thousands, you'd want to be winning the division comfortably. Nobody at Harps expects to win anything.

It's only April....

[nigel-harps1954]

It's only April....

It was only 2.15 in the morning after a feed of pints too ;P

[bluemovie]

5 games left and it's up for grabs again! Limerick 50 Longford 47 Blues 46. Four wins from four for the Blues against Limerick. Thought they'd have the league wrapped up long ago...and they would've if it hadn't been for those meddling kids from Waterford.

[Jofspring]

We would have had it wrapped up if our manager wasn't a lunatic who can't even pick a starting 11 right. Every big match Barr Longford away he has made crazy changes to the team. He must have his house down on us to not win the league.

Our record against fellow promotion rivals this season once again is shocking.

[bluemovie]

It's mad. Ye've won pretty much every game otherwise.