FAI seek Derry exemption

[micls]

Have Bohs asked the FAI to make representations to UEFA on their behalf, in order to gain that European spot?

If they have, and the FAI refused, then you probably have a point.

I don't see that it's relevant tbh.

The FAI decide who they put forward as representatives. It's not up to the clubs to ask them to do so! The FAI chose to pick Derry as their representative, despite the rules, instead of picking Bohs. That was their choice, nobody elses.

Clubs don't have to ask to be put forward as representatives!

[dcfc_1928]

But surely clubs have the right to object? Particularly when there seems to be valid grounds for an objection.

Everyone seems to be quite indignant on behalf of Bohs, I'm simply wondering what their position is on the matter.

Have Bohs applied for a UEFA license and are the FAI helping them with their application?


I don't see that it's relevant tbh.

The FAI decide who they put forward as representatives. It's not up to the clubs to ask them to do so! The FAI chose to pick Derry as their representative, despite the rules, instead of picking Bohs. That was their choice, nobody elses.

Clubs don't have to ask to be put forward as representatives!

[osarusan]

I don't know why UEFA created this 3-year trading rule, but am I right in speculating that the situation Derry are in now (new trading company after old one left debts behind, and the club being able to recover quickly because of all the unpaid debt) is exactly the kind of situation the rule was written for?

[micls]

But surely clubs have the right to object? Particularly when there seems to be valid grounds for an objection.

Everyone seems to be quite indignant on behalf of Bohs, I'm simply wondering what their position is on the matter.

Have Bohs applied for a UEFA license and are the FAI helping them with their application?
Of course they have the right to object, who said otherwise.

However, them not objecting doesn't mean whats being done is right (I've no idea if they've objected or not).

Why would Bohs have applied for a UEFA licence without being put forward as a representative. That makes no sense. You're put forward as a representative, and then you apply for the licence.

Bohs have a lot of stuff to worry about right now, so I dunno if this is something their focusing on, but that doesn't make it right.

[dcfc_1928]

Are you sure?

I thought that each club which believes it can qualify for European competitions must, prior to the beginning of that season, apply for a UEFA Club Licence.

In this case if Bohs believe they can qualify, because Derry are refused a license, then they must also submit an application?

Regardless, my point is, the FAI will help any of its member clubs with their application for a UEFA club license.

It's up to the FAI to assist their member clubs with the process, but at the end of the day it will be UEFA's decision.


Of course they have the right to object, who said otherwise.

However, them not objecting doesn't mean whats being done is right (I've no idea if they've objected or not).

Why would Bohs have applied for a UEFA licence without being put forward as a representative. That makes no sense. You're put forward as a representative, and then you apply for the licence.

Bohs have a lot of stuff to worry about right now, so I dunno if this is something their focusing on, but that doesn't make it right.

[dcfc_1928]

Yep - that's exactly why it was created and why I can't ultimately see UEFA accepting the licensing application.



I don't know why UEFA created this 3-year trading rule, but am I right in speculating that the situation Derry are in now (new trading company after old one left debts behind, and the club being able to recover quickly because of all the unpaid debt) is exactly the kind of situation the rule was written for?

[Dodge]

FAI with their Dublin bias as usual

[Dodge]

Can we make this clear. Derry were not relegated. Their results for 2009 were expunged and they were kicked out of the LOI!
And were then allowed to snake back in without Wellvan involvment! :)
Their results were not expunged. Their license was revoked (after all games played) but the results counted (unlike Dublin City's in 2006)

[marinobohs]

I like the way Bohs could be the ones to benefit. Kind of highlights how the LoI never learns.

if Bohs get the spot it will be because they finished the highest placed team that meet the relevent criteria. The only thing the LOI has to "learn" is that some on here are incapable of leaving their anti Bohs bias out of any discussion. :mad:

Persoanlly I think if the FAI seek a deregation for Derry it will be granted - simply because EUFA dont really care who represents our league.

And if that is how it transpires best of luck to them in europe but I can understand the surprise/concern of some at the FAI advocating on behalf of a club they so recently expelled.

[Dodge]

Anti Bohs bias from a UCD fan? He he hee

UEFA do care, and as hinted earlier the Coleraine situation only 60 miles down the road is the key indicator there.

[marinobohs]

Anti Bohs bias from a UCD fan? He he hee

UEFA do care, and as hinted earlier the Coleraine situation only 60 miles down the road is the key indicator there.

P Stu a UCD fan he he hee. hardly news that he has an anti Bohs agenda (on here at least) now is it ?

If Uefa are as short on fudge as you suspect FAI application could face an uphill struggle. Not so sure the FAI should be highlighting the "boom/bust/back again" culture that has spread in LOI

[A N Mouse]

UEFA do care, and as hinted earlier the Coleraine situation only 60 miles down the road is the key indicator there.

Dodge what's the point of reference for your distance calculation? :p

Astana lost on the last day of the season (http://www.soccerway.com/national/kazakhstan/super-league/2011/champion-play-offs/) or they would be in exactly the same situation as derry. Preventing a repeat of last year, when they were barred from taking part. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Astana)

It's probably going to come down to some technicality. Like this being the fourth european season of this iteration of dcfc's existence.

[nigel-harps1954]

P Stu a UCD fan he he hee. hardly news that he has an anti Bohs agenda (on here at least) now is it ?

If Eufa are as short on fudge as you suspect FAI application could face an uphill struggle. Not so sure the FAI should be highlighting the "boom/bust/back again" culture that has spread in LOI


I'm sorry, but your quality miss-spelling just made my day.

[BonnieShels]

Their results were not expunged. Their license was revoked (after all games played) but the results counted (unlike Dublin City's in 2006)

Sorry I meant in expunged with regard to Derry themselves. They finished on zero as result? Think that's right?

[Dodge]

No, otherwise they'd have had to amend the table for everyone

[BonnieShels]

No, otherwise they'd have had to amend the table for everyone


Yeah. Had a proper look. I could have sworn I once saw a table with them removed from the final table.

Either way... Cheatin' ba*****s. :)

[Réiteoir]

There any timescale on when a decision will be made either way?

[Mr A]

From their forum I gather that Derry will not be allowed to play in Europe this year.

[Charlie Darwin]

Confirmed on the club's twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/derrycityfc/status/171948431831597057

[Shannonsider]

Wasn't that the old Derry City? The new Derry City are the ones we are discussing, the club that the FAI is trying to help get into Europe.

Is this the new Derry with the same ground, the same crest, the same history, the same club colours, the same fanbase?

[refjohn]

Is this the new Derry with the same ground, the same crest, the same history, the same club colours, the same fanbase?

Almost - they changed the crest ;)

[Shannonsider]

Almost - they changed the crest ;)

Meh.. Heard they were doing that anyways.. Modern club and all that :p

[Sam_Heggy]

Almost - they changed the crest ;)

Nope, it still has founded in 1928 on it.

[dcfc_1928]

Nope.

http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked/Library/SF628/405343.jpg

http://inform.fai.ie/statsportal/ClubDetails.aspx?clubID=1316


http://www.derrycityfc.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/cwlogo_wp.png


Nope, it still has founded in 1928 on it.

[Mr_Parker]

Is this the new Derry with the same ground, the same crest, the same history, the same club colours, the same fanbase?

A new club according to their chairman today.

"We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us, but from the previous club" So I hope theiy are not claiming the old clubs history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17116759

[SwanVsDalton]

A new club according to their chairman today.

"We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us, but from the previous club" So I hope theiy are not claiming the old clubs history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17116759

Me too, I'm still waiting for the treble winners to come back into existence so I can bang on about it. :(

[dcfc_1928]

Yet UEFA's decision would suggest that it's not a new club.

Confused? I know that I am...


A new club according to their chairman today.

"We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us, but from the previous club" So I hope theiy are not claiming the old clubs history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17116759

[Charlie Darwin]

UEFA's decision suggests it is a new club, as far as I know. A club has to be in existence for three years before it can compete in European competition.

[Dodge]

UEFA's decision suggests it is a new club, as far as I know. A club has to be in existence for three years before it can compete in European competition.

Nope, Sportng Fingal began playing football in March 2008, and played in Europe in July 2010.

Holding company has to be operating for 3 years (have financial records for 3 years) apparently

[CSFShels]

Yet UEFA's decision would suggest that it's not a new club.

Confused? I know that I am...

I don't think UEFA'S decision does suggest that. I don't have the wording of the rule to hand, but from what I've gathered in reading about this case, the rule relates to reformed clubs from the ashes of a liquidated club or one that went out of existence. In the same way that a club who has been in administration can't be in Europe for a certain amount of time. Difficult enough to govern but the fact that UEFA don't have to answer to the courts really, (as illustrated by Sion/Celtic) makes it easier for them to do the right thing.

[pineapple stu]

Nope, Sportng Fingal began playing football in March 2008, and played in Europe in July 2010.

Holding company has to be operating for 3 years (have financial records for 3 years) apparently
So what was Fingal's holding company that existed while the club didn't?

[osarusan]

Maybe they were granted an exemption as they were a genuinely new club, as opposed to a 'new holding company but same club' club.

[Spudulika]

The SF project had been developed for a couple of years before the club began play. Hence they had the trading records in place and all legal formalities passed.

[dcfc_1928]

From another ruling on the 3-year rule, UEFA states that "clubs are not allowed to change their legal form or structure in order to obtain a licence, simply by 'cleaning up' their balance sheet while offloading debts onto a new entity that might potentially go bankrupt – thus harming creditors (including employees and social/tax authorities) as well as threatening the integrity of sporting competition. Any such alteration of a club's legal form or structure is deemed to be an interruption to its membership of a UEFA member association and consequently three years must pass before a club can apply again for a UEFA licence."

The three-year rule seems to mainly cover clubs that change their structure (e.g. by dissolving an old company, and along with it the debts) rather than brand new clubs who essentially have a clean slate in terms of licensing.

If FAI/DCFC had proven that this was a brand new club, would they have stood a much better chance of getting a UEFA license?


UEFA's decision suggests it is a new club, as far as I know. A club has to be in existence for three years before it can compete in European competition.

[Real ale Madrid]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0222/1224312169043.html

So Bohs wrote to FAI and UEFA ? Bad form or just good sense ?

[El-Pietro]

Bad form I think, but at the end of the day the right decision was made so it should be left at that. The first game of the season between Bohs and Derry should be interesting

[GCdfc]

I think that they were right to write to UEFA. If Derry got in due to a bending of the rules then itt would have been Bohs loss. European football can help make a clubs season.

[Derry]

if Bohs get the spot it will be because they finished the highest placed team that meet the relevent criteria. The only thing the LOI has to "learn" is that some on here are incapable of leaving their anti Bohs bias out of any discussion. :mad:

Persoanlly I think if the FAI seek a deregation for Derry it will be granted - simply because EUFA dont really care who represents our league.

And if that is how it transpires best of luck to them in europe but I can understand the surprise/concern of some at the FAI advocating on behalf of a club they so recently expelled.

Tell me are your players still getting paid as groundsmen and barmen, along with getting paid as footballers?

How many million do Bohs owe, and how long will they get away not paying what they owe?

Nothing to to do with anti Bohs, just looking for some answers, but don't expect any.

[Dodge]

If Derry think Bohs shouldn't get a licence, send a similar letter and let UEFA decide

It won't change the fact you weren't eligible to receive one. Good to see the majority of Derry fans taking the ruling in the right manner.

Nothing wrong with them seeking an exception, nor Bohs looking to have the rule steadfastly implemented. Just doing what's best for their clubs

[Macy]

So Bohs wrote to FAI and UEFA ? Bad form or just good sense ?
Looking after their own interests, just as Derry were doing in seeking an exemption when they knew they were in breach of the rules.

[marinobohs]

Tell me are your players still getting paid as groundsmen and barmen, along with getting paid as footballers?

How many million do Bohs owe, and how long will they get away not paying what they owe?

Nothing to to do with anti Bohs, just looking for some answers, but don't expect any.

If you believe Bohs are in breach of criteria for european football I have no doubt Derry City will object. Otherwise stop whinging (ironic you would raise players contracts given Derry Citys recent history :rolleyes:)

Bohs did not introduce the criteria nor did they exclude Derry City so spare us the martyrdom complex, unfortunately typical of many LOI fans to blame other clubs for their inadequacies.


Someone, somewhere must find a way to blame "Pat the Rat" for all this :cool::cool:

[GCdfc]

Someone, somewhere must find a way to blame "Pat the Rat" for all this :cool::cool:

No need to find a way to blame him. He is already assumed to be the source of all evil in the LOI.

[de bowez]

Tell me are your players still getting paid as groundsmen and barmen, along with getting paid as footballers?

How many million do Bohs owe, and how long will they get away not paying what they owe?

Nothing to to do with anti Bohs, just looking for some answers, but don't expect any.

1. They never have been and they aren't.

2. Many millions owed with a repayment plan in place.

[micls]

I think Bohs were perfectly within their rights to ask UEFA to uphold the rules while their own football association were going to bat for a club that didn't fulfill the criteria.

[Aaron]

If we were in Bohs situation, i'd fully expect us to do the same thing. Rules are rules, take yer oil as we like to say

[Dalymountrower]

If we were in Bohs situation, i'd fully expect us to do the same thing. Rules are rules, take yer oil as we like to say

I would suspect that the above would be the view of most Derry fans. Derry deserved it on the football field but were rightly denied a place due to the tax shenanigans which led to the club folding/re-structuring
I am a Bohs member and there was no great clamour for the club to state the bleeding obvious to UEFA, but I am glad that they decided to do it without hype or publicity. Embarrassing that our national association further undermined its credibility by looking for UEFA to "bend" the rules
As for the Derry Board, the comments about Bohs are consistent with the usual default mode of Boards of Football clubs in trying to deflect from their own failures by blaming everyone else, I doubt that sensible Derry fans will be taken in by their chairmans guff.

[Aaron]

I would suspect that the above would be the view of most Derry fans. Derry deserved it on the football field but were rightly denied a place due to the tax shenanigans which led to the club folding/re-structuring
I am a Bohs member and there was no great clamour for the club to state the bleeding obvious to UEFA, but I am glad that they decided to do it without hype or publicity. Embarrassing that our national association further undermined its credibility by looking for UEFA to "bend" the rules
As for the Derry Board, the comments about Bohs are consistent with the usual default mode of Boards of Football clubs in trying to deflect from their own failures by blaming everyone else, I doubt that sensible Derry fans will be taken in by their chairmans guff.

Correct. Most of us were aware it was likely we wouldn't get in. Disappointing mostly for the players but rules are rules

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't know why anyone would blame Bohs for asking the question.

[SkStu]

i have to say this has been a pretty great week to be a Bohs fan. TBWRA. :)

[Spudulika]

Sounds like Derry got the silver lining any LOI club would like, a big money government grant. Could do wonders for the league.