LoI/GAA discussion

[Spudulika]

I know it's all rumour and supposition right now, though is there an inkling of why they were turned down?

Just following on a point from PS - re. supporters owned clubs, in my general experience with them there have been a handful who are well run or even worthwhile, the rest live year to year or are a nest of internecine strife with the richest gunslinger in town running the show until his money runs out or his promises fall short. It has been always spoken about how the continental model (Germany and Spain in particular) are good ways to go, but ego can always outstrip sense and clubs like Kaisersalutern, Dortmund and the financial wrecks in Spain (who get sweetheart deals with local councils to rescue them) are not paragons of virtue. However Irish efforts can work far easier if (I'm prepared for the usual nonsense and blowhardism on this one) a GAA-type model is followed. It runs contrary to the prevailing attitude which is ingrained in Irish football and all the way to the top of the FAI, but utilising the best bits of the GAA in the running of a football club can make a long term sustainable business and competitive club.

[born2bwild]

However Irish efforts can work far easier if (I'm prepared for the usual nonsense and blowhardism on this one) a GAA-type model is followed. It runs contrary to the prevailing attitude which is ingrained in Irish football and all the way to the top of the FAI, but utilising the best bits of the GAA in the running of a football club can make a long term sustainable business and competitive club.
What would the 'best bits of the GAA in the running of a football club' grafted onto the LoI look like?

I mean, as far as I can see 'a GAA-type model' is where players play for nothing and managers get....well, something.... (I'm not clear on the legal implications for this website if I say anything less vague).

You're not talking about volunteerism on and off the pitch, though, are you?

[Spudulika]

What would the 'best bits of the GAA in the running of a football club' grafted onto the LoI look like?

I mean, as far as I can see 'a GAA-type model' is where players play for nothing and managers get....well, something.... (I'm not clear on the legal implications for this website if I say anything less vague).

You're not talking about volunteerism on and off the pitch, though, are you?

Well volunteerism already exists in the LOI (Dundalk is an example I can quote right off) while GAA players get better looked after than many in the LOI. I'm totally against payment for players or managers in the GAA, expenses yes, though as soon as professionalism comes in the code is over.

There are a great many things the LOI can take from the GAA to make it a viable entity - in fact the FAI can borrow quite a bit to move on with itself. Just two things that can easily be done to give the LOI a boost. 1. Get properly into local Primary Schools (within the catchment area) - weekly coaching sessions, assisting with school teams - and this links to the second point. 2. Have a proper club structure in place from the youngest age category up to the LOI team - this takes alot of joined up thinking, effort and long term planning, but it pays off in every way. Using these two points you'll put numbers on the gate, gain a deeper identity, get young players into your system right away, compete with rival sports bodies and create a club community.

[Rasputin]

Well volunteerism already exists in the LOI (Dundalk is an example I can quote right off) while GAA players get better looked after than many in the LOI. I'm totally against payment for players or managers in the GAA, expenses yes, though as soon as professionalism comes in the code is over.

There are a great many things the LOI can take from the GAA to make it a viable entity - in fact the FAI can borrow quite a bit to move on with itself. Just two things that can easily be done to give the LOI a boost. 1. Get properly into local Primary Schools (within the catchment area) - weekly coaching sessions, assisting with school teams - and this links to the second point. 2. Have a proper club structure in place from the youngest age category up to the LOI team - this takes alot of joined up thinking, effort and long term planning, but it pays off in every way. Using these two points you'll put numbers on the gate, gain a deeper identity, get young players into your system right away, compete with rival sports bodies and create a club community.
Thats a laugh.
The GAA could learn a thing or two from the LOI and actually pay the people who generate the money.
I know the LOI falls short on the above on more than one occasion but at least we actually try to pay our players.
This romantic bullcrap that its somehow progressive not to pay players who generate profits is ridiculous and insulting.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Thats a laugh.
The GAA could learn a thing or two from the LOI and actually pay the people who generate the money.
I know the LOI falls short on the above on more than one occasion but at least we actually try to pay our players.
This romantic bullcrap that its somehow progressive not to pay players who generate profits is ridiculous and insulting.

There is a slight difference in that if players here weren't getting paid to play they could go across the water and get paid over there. GAA have never paid players (apart from "expenses") whereas soccer players have generally always been paid.

[Spudulika]

I'm not talking about making the break from junior to senior ,that's not a bad idea by the way but I'm referring to loi clubs hovering up the best under 12, 13 14 in an area which causes resentment in the underage game and stifles potential support

I think you might have misunderstood the dynamic - plus how likely is it that all the young players will go to the LOI club and that all will progress up the leagues - it just doesn't happen. If LOI clubs don't have the structures in place to coach from children (under-9's) up, and I'm not talking about this "Academy" stuff, but actual teams with an overall plan, then they don't deserve to be in the League. I attended a meeting yonks ago to listen to Fran Rooney speak with LOI club reps, one basic tenet he proposed was that in order for clubs to be allowed compete in the LOI they had to have a full structure for boys and girls from 7 years old up to senior, as they have in many clubs on the continent. It's been a long time ago but I am certain the only person who spoke in support was from Bray and uniformly the other reps said it strained resources, was a waste of money etc. Done right, have a structure to incorporate from kids up to seniors means a stronger club - I can speak from experience of (just one place) Hessen where Eintracht had teams down to little kids yet there was interaction between them and other clubs and fees pay (as Peadar describes) for players moving etc. It makes sense, except for the LOI and Irish football.

Rasputin, your reaction is exactly what I expected, yet it's alone. Focusing solely on paying players (in any sport) is the last reserve of the defeated - it's beyond players, it's down to structures, game promotion and community engagement. No need to go on a defensive attack.

[Rasputin]

Rasputin, your reaction is exactly what I expected, yet it's alone. Focusing solely on paying players (in any sport) is the last reserve of the defeated - it's beyond players, it's down to structures, game promotion and community engagement. No need to go on a defensive attack.
Last reserve of the defeated? Oh jesus wept.
The players generate the entertainment, they do the labour hence they deserve the fruits of their labour with the money and profits they generate.
Just because the GAA is an expert at exploiting the naivity of farmers sons does not mean we should jump on that parasites bandwagon, its disgusting.

[Spudulika]

Last reserve of the defeated? Oh jesus wept.
The players generate the entertainment, they do the labour hence they deserve the fruits of their labour with the money and profits they generate.
Just because the GAA is an expert at exploiting the naivity of farmers sons does not mean we should jump on that parasites bandwagon, its disgusting.

If you can just move past the bias and try objectivity for a moment, and just focus on what was suggested as a way for LOI clubs to stabilise and grow rather than petty slagging of another organisation, it would be really helpful. You've made the points, in our own way, that you don't view anything positive from the GAA to be used in football, point taken, nothing more for you to see here, fair enough.


GUST did offer the 2 clubs an olive branch to come to some arrangement which would strengthen Galway football in the forseeable future, but they were told where they could stick it.

Terry, what kind of co-operation was suggested, do you know? Since all 3 clubs would be in the 1 division and (as was mentioned earlier on the thread) at least 1 of the other clubs is struggling to field teams, player swaps don't look likely and a merger would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

[marinobohs]

Last reserve of the defeated? Oh jesus wept.
The players generate the entertainment, they do the labour hence they deserve the fruits of their labour with the money and profits they generate.
Just because the GAA is an expert at exploiting the naivity of farmers sons does not mean we should jump on that parasites bandwagon, its disgusting.

More and more pressure on the "amateur" nature of bogball as it is. To be fair they did milk the amateur status and ploughed all money into facilities etc over the years. This model would not be sustainable (to start) now in bogball never mind trying to introduce it to LOI football.

Bogball also mastered the art of sourcing funding - Govt grants especially. And parish/local identity was a major factor in the ability to source funds (involvement of local T.D.s etc).

Constantly hear the refrain about "learning from the Gah" and no doubt the Gah did a great job over the years for their sports but I am not sure what aspects we could realistically adopt in LOI now.

[atfconline]

Fairly harmless now that neither of us are doing spectacularly well! When we were winning things there was a fair bit of resentment over there, and probably vice versa when they were winning things though I'm too young to remember that...

Ouch. Just ouch.

[Spudulika]

MB, referring to the sport as bogball kinda ruins anything else to follow - though I'll point to what you pointed out yourself - engaging the local community (and their reps). Also getting into schools, starting structures from the youngest age up and complementing what is existence (in terms of Junior and underage clubs). Simple, effective and outside the realm of possibility in LOI.

Longfordian, what's the situation in the club this year in terms of sponsorship and funding? I ask simply as I met one of your reps over here for the Irish match and he was talking about 2012 being a strong season for the club. I cannot for the life of me remember his name - he was/is 5'5"/5'6, heavy set, grey haired, moustache, hates the Monaghan boss and loves a jar. Probably doesn't narrow it down much.

[passerrby]

But spud I don't know a loi club that is not doing exactly that including your own but this takes time and remember there is strong opposition in certain quarters so while loi is working hard in these areas it is a uphill struggle

[Charlie Darwin]

There are political problems with regard to access to schools too. The GAA clubs are very strong in the primary schools and even the IRFU have been involved for a long time. To add to the parish/local identity example cited by marinobohs, there's a parish priest on every school board in the country. I know Rovers have been putting in a big effort in Tallaght since long before the stadium was built and they're only starting to see results now.

[marinobohs]

MB, referring to the sport as bogball kinda ruins anything else to follow - though I'll point to what you pointed out yourself - engaging the local community (and their reps). Also getting into schools, starting structures from the youngest age up and complementing what is existence (in terms of Junior and underage clubs). Simple, effective and outside the realm of possibility in LOI.

Longfordian, what's the situation in the club this year in terms of sponsorship and funding? I ask simply as I met one of your reps over here for the Irish match and he was talking about 2012 being a strong season for the club. I cannot for the life of me remember his name - he was/is 5'5"/5'6, heavy set, grey haired, moustache, hates the Monaghan boss and loves a jar. Probably doesn't narrow it down much.

.....just as well I didn't mention "stick fighting" so :o.Seriously Spud, many clubs have schoolboy/under age set ups in place, Bohs and Shels have and shams annexed the (very successful) Tallaght Town set up. While some clubs have done work in schools etc oppurtunities are limited by time constraints etc. One area that could improve is the work done by FAI coaches - this should interact more with LOI clubs in the locality.

Again, many clubs have interacted with the community but given clubs sometimes change location and the fact that clubs tend to be more urban than Gah I am not sure this is as big an area of oppurtunity as people think. In gah all players are from the area/parish so a sense of (team/club) identity is ingrained,this isnot the case in LOI.

[Magicme]

I found it almost the opposite Charlie when I was CPO. Bar a few country schools with a strict gaa influence and one secondary school (unfortunately the best Target audience for us as it was an all boys school with over 500 students) schools were delighted to let me in. Some even complained that the gaa were always annoying them about something and charging for coaching while i was doing it for free. If it had been possible to continue the programs I have no doubt that it would really have paid off in long term.

[Macy]

, and probably vice versa when they were winning things though I'm too young to remember that...
Excellent.

[Longfordian]

Longfordian, what's the situation in the club this year in terms of sponsorship and funding? I ask simply as I met one of your reps over here for the Irish match and he was talking about 2012 being a strong season for the club. I cannot for the life of me remember his name - he was/is 5'5"/5'6, heavy set, grey haired, moustache, hates the Monaghan boss and loves a jar. Probably doesn't narrow it down much.
Donald Keogh by the sounds of it! Our FAI delegate and club PRO. Yeah we should be fairly alright this year money wise, a couple of decent sponsors still on board which is a big help. The aim is to be contending at the top end.

[Macy]

All of this is off topic, but...

Talk of doing things like the GAA is pie in the sky without major reform of the FAI. That'd take the school boy and junior clubs turkeys to vote for christmas. It should be that school boys and junior clubs feed into LoI clubs, who then feed into the National Team and/or abroad. Too many school boy clubs want to skip even their own senior teams to go straight to sending kids across the water in the hope that every few years they get a former player capped to put a name on some plaque in their club house.

Just for information, Leinster are currently having problems getting access to schools players, as the schools cup is more important that player welfare and long term development. Secondly, the GAA aren't exactly guiding lights when it comes to player welfare either - look how many burn out in their mid to late 20's? Finally, it's an open secret about the "expense" amounts that GAA managers get, to such a degree that I've heard recent debates that it should be a fixed wage for the job. Amazing revenue will come after the LoI clubs over defacto wages being paid as expenses, but the GAA has never been touched. They'll go after pensioners, but the GAA is the last untouchable of Irish society.

[gufcfan]

Some even complained that the gaa were always annoying them about something and charging for coaching while i was doing it for free.
Jesus... don't talk to me about that sort of craic. GAA crowd in my home village have been trying to kill off the local soccer club for as long as I can remember, and before that no doubt. The same morons that swear at under 12s for playing soccer in their own time are the same people in the pub on a saturday shouting for Arsenal, United, Chelsea etc. You couldn't make it up. The FAI ran a coaching course of some sort on the local astro in recent years and the "helpers" they employed were all part of the local gah mafia, but €100 a day caused them a strange sort of 3-day long short-term memory loss.

[prince20]

Donald Keogh by the sounds of it! Our FAI delegate and club PRO. Yeah we should be fairly alright this year money wise, a couple of decent sponsors still on board which is a big help. The aim is to be contending at the top end.

Ah sure you can always dream........reality is much better though:cool:

[marinobohs]

Thread appears to be developing into two distinct discussions (Galway situation and gah stuff). Maybe time to seperate ?

[SkStu]

before it splits, i think now is the right moment to accuse GUST of being windy feckers. :p

[Dunny]

before it splits, i think now is the right moment to accuse GUST of being windy feckers. :p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_Ot0k4XJc

[Spudulika]

In terms of primary schools and sports, once proper insurance measures are in place there is an excellent response from the teachers to just get the kids doing something. One major problem I found (especially at primary level) is a distinct lack of male teachers. If we all think back (some like me longer than others) to those halycon days in the parish field, there were always a majority or sizeable minority of male teachers in schools. I don't know statistics for the present day, but in 3 primary schools in the D. 15 area (2 mixed, 1 boys and girls school(s)) less than a quarter of teachers were male, of those half were committed to music teaching (and hated sports) and there was a fertile ground for GAA club coaches coming in to "look after" school teams. Now move on from this a little.

I grew up playing lots of sports, depending on the time of year. My GAA club was a small Junior one with a big catchment area and no idea of how to organise under age teams. The GAA had an initiative back in the very early 80's on how to (re)organise he club scene and with long term planning and a bit of cop on, my club became the biggest in Ireland. It took time, there was major bitching - include getting coaches to give time to go into schools, but it worked and paid dividends.

For sure there are clubs (those named like Shels, Bohs, Rovers - Monaghan too I know from word of mouth) who build from the ground up, however it can be refined and as stated perfectly correctly, the FAI needs to take a leading role in this. Bottom up is fine, but clubs need support from the top down. It's not going to happen as there are too many vested interests at play.

I was working at a Primary school in Dundalk way back when for a half a year and while the Gaelic Football season was in the first half of the year, we had hurling (yes, stick fighting :-) ) and football in the Spring-Summer period. It boiled down to teachers taking a hand and when we asked Dundalk FC (okay, it was the periodical civil war so kind of pointless) for assistance along with Redeemer and the Friary, but didn't get so much as a response to have a coach/player come out to take A session. It was a serious chance lost for Dundalk to catch new fans, engage with the community and just do the right thing. I know such thigns have improved, however some big time pushing from the boys in Abbotstown and things would be way easier.

[Spudulika]

Donald Keogh by the sounds of it! Our FAI delegate and club PRO. Yeah we should be fairly alright this year money wise, a couple of decent sponsors still on board which is a big help. The aim is to be contending at the top end.

That's him. We'd a major chat about the club, an ex-manager and some shenanigans from former "interested buyers". If you see him tell him the irish guy in Moscow football says hello, plus he owes me a pint!

[Martinho II]

MB, referring to the sport as bogball kinda ruins anything else to follow - though I'll point to what you pointed out yourself - engaging the local community (and their reps). Also getting into schools, starting structures from the youngest age up and complementing what is existence (in terms of Junior and underage clubs). Simple, effective and outside the realm of possibility in LOI.

Longfordian, what's the situation in the club this year in terms of sponsorship and funding? I ask simply as I met one of your reps over here for the Irish match and he was talking about 2012 being a strong season for the club. I cannot for the life of me remember his name - he was/is 5'5"/5'6, heavy set, grey haired, moustache, hates the Monaghan boss and loves a jar. Probably doesn't narrow it down much.

you are ok spud thats our PRO that you were talkin to and his finger would be on the pulse the whole time!

[Martinho II]

That's him. We'd a major chat about the club, an ex-manager and some shenanigans from former "interested buyers". If you see him tell him the irish guy in Moscow football says hello, plus he owes me a pint!

I will be seein him tonight at our lotto draw and will tell him to pay up!!:)

[Spudulika]

Martinho, thanks a million. We'd a good chat, me, him and the head of the visa section. Your man was hanging big time, but he was gas.

Sean South, I think so, it was Rovers first year back up, I remember John Lester playing for Galway (at least I'm pretty sure) and they almost nicked it from Rovers. I followed the fortunes of Galway that season and had some contact with Ewan MacGregor regarding one of their players, and I was there when they stayed up the last game of the season (supporting the opposition it has to be said). I've always like Galway sports, there's potential in all areas but there's something missing (unlike Cork, Limerick, Sligo where the community and local reps get stuck in behind the sports clubs).

[Rasputin]

If you can just move past the bias and try objectivity for a moment, and just focus on what was suggested as a way for LOI clubs to stabilise and grow rather than petty slagging of another organisation, it would be really helpful. You've made the points, in our own way, that you don't view anything positive from the GAA to be used in football, point taken, nothing more for you to see here, fair enough.
Maybe it is bias, im not sure but it does not make my points any less legitimate.
There are things we can learn off the GAA, their organisation and grass roots structures are second to none.
But when it comes to not paying the players, that is a joke, the players deserve a fair wage for their efforts.
As for youth development personally I think its impossible to judge how effective it really is because the GAA wallows in its own international irrelevance.

[marinobohs]

Maybe it is bias, im not sure but it does not make my points any less legitimate.
There are things we can learn off the GAA, their organisation and grass roots structures are second to none.
But when it comes to not paying the players, that is a joke, the players deserve a fair wage for their efforts.
As for youth development personally I think its impossible to judge how effective it really is because the GAA wallows in its own international irrelevance.

This is the big difference - once you pay players there will be much more movement between clubs (chasing highest wage offer), this in turn weakens the grass roots /local ties/ life long commitment to club (as traditionally enjoyed by the Gah).

Still not convinced that the GAA model has much we could use now apart from schoolboy/youth/senior interaction much better than football.

[Spudulika]

Rasputin, again your tone devalues the really valid points you make about the grassroots structures and even the lack of pay for play, though wallowing in international irrelevance? Hmm, let's see, how many people watched the summer matches in pubs and homes across the world vs those of us who had to beg a friendly pub owner to watch a free feed from RTE for the cup final? The GAA's presence abroad is growing and now with a tech age around us, it won't be long before the growing European leagues begin to feed back, added to this the North American and Australasian set-ups and there will be, within 5-10 years, 1 or 2 ex-pat driven teams in All-Ireland championships at some level. In addition the GAA actively fund and assist clubs abroad, so your point on that really is just a snide remark with no reason.

Not all LOI clubs are without grassroots structures, Rovers, Sligo etc are good examples - which is coupled with friendly local councils. This is a big difference and doesn't just go down to cosying up with politicos, it also has a lot to do with the clubs themselves impressing the good they can do to the local community structures.

MB, the interaction you mention is just one of a number. Games promotions and top down guidance are two more. In fairness the FAI have made a stand to go after having a part in the Aviva, and fair dues, but it's going to cost alot to developing overall.

[MagicMon]

Rasputin, again your tone devalues the really valid points you make about the grassroots structures and even the lack of pay for play, though wallowing in international irrelevance? Hmm, let's see, how many people watched the summer matches in pubs and homes across the world vs those of us who had to beg a friendly pub owner to watch a free feed from RTE for the cup final? The GAA's presence abroad is growing and now with a tech age around us, it won't be long before the growing European leagues begin to feed back, added to this the North American and Australasian set-ups and there will be, within 5-10 years, 1 or 2 ex-pat driven teams in All-Ireland championships at some level. In addition the GAA actively fund and assist clubs abroad, so your point on that really is just a snide remark with no reason.



I think the point was that Ireland is the only country in the world that produces GAA players, so there is nothing to compare it to. Who knows if Holland, Spain or Brazil could consistently produce hurling superstars with vastly superior stickball skills

[Rasputin]

Rasputin, again your tone devalues the really valid points you make about the grassroots structures and even the lack of pay for play, though wallowing in international irrelevance? Hmm, let's see, how many people watched the summer matches in pubs and homes across the world vs those of us who had to beg a friendly pub owner to watch a free feed from RTE for the cup final? The GAA's presence abroad is growing and now with a tech age around us, it won't be long before the growing European leagues begin to feed back, added to this the North American and Australasian set-ups and there will be, within 5-10 years, 1 or 2 ex-pat driven teams in All-Ireland championships at some level. In addition the GAA actively fund and assist clubs abroad, so your point on that really is just a snide remark with no reason.
Ohh mother of god, this is tragic.
You are comparing the GAA's international irrelevancy to the biggest sport in the world?
And you do this by mentioning the Irish cup final and a few ex pats abroad?
You need to take a good hard long look at yourself.

[Spudulika]

Ohh mother of god, this is tragic.
You are comparing the GAA's international irrelevancy to the biggest sport in the world?
And you do this by mentioning the Irish cup final and a few ex pats abroad?
You need to take a good hard long look at yourself.

Dude, go lie down, take a drink and relax. You've made your points, you've come to a conclusion about yourself, so just let it go. Nothing more to see here my lad.

[Spudulika]

I think the point was that Ireland is the only country in the world that produces GAA players, so there is nothing to compare it to. Who knows if Holland, Spain or Brazil could consistently produce hurling superstars with vastly superior stickball skills

Magicmon, I'm sure that given a generation anywhere can produce decent players with the right coaching and development. However you're wrong with your point. I'll let you discover it for yourself, if you're interested, though in clubs in Scotland, England and USA there are underage structures, some producing pretty decent hurlers which surprised me. With the increasing number of Irish moving away adding to the existing generations of Irish already in situ, as I said there will be an improvement in standards of the foreign sides and with the existing youth structures this is bound to improve further.

However this element is only relevant if the LOI tap into "Irish" clubs abroad and work out a formal structure to channel Irish-born or with grandparents into the Irish system. Since they find it hard enough to do it at home, chasing a few Northern teens might be the limit for the moment.

[Macy]

This is the big difference - once you pay players there will be much more movement between clubs (chasing highest wage offer), this in turn weakens the grass roots /local ties/ life long commitment to club (as traditionally enjoyed by the Gah).
Yeah, imagine if that happened. Dublin GAA clubs would be snapping up talent from around the country....

Revenue have done pensioners, they're moving on to nixers. Next in their firing line should be "expenses" in sporting organisations. They stung the LoI years ago, it's about time they did others.

[Spudulika]

Dublin clubs already have been doing it, town clubs in counties have been doing it, senior clubs have been doing it. In one way I understand players who are with a country club but now studying/living in Dublin and switching clubs, this seems to be prevalent and quite natural. It happens the other way around too, but the drain will always be greater towards Dublin (or big towns). I heard on Newstalk recently how some lads from down the country were apparently offered jobs to transfer - which was rumour and supposition but also not challenged by the amateur hour boys. I'd love to know if Dublin clubs are sending scouts around the land looking for a big hairy mullocking full forward and a nimble half back and then promising them the earth and young maids to switch to Dublin.

You're right, Revenue need to catch people on expenses and nixers, but rooting out the black/grey economy will always be thankless. And in Ireland moreso.

[Macy]

The working/ studying in Dublin thing is a rather convenient cover.

[marinobohs]

Dublin clubs already have been doing it, town clubs in counties have been doing it, senior clubs have been doing it. In one way I understand players who are with a country club but now studying/living in Dublin and switching clubs, this seems to be prevalent and quite natural. It happens the other way around too, but the drain will always be greater towards Dublin (or big towns). I heard on Newstalk recently how some lads from down the country were apparently offered jobs to transfer - which was rumour and supposition but also not challenged by the amateur hour boys. I'd love to know if Dublin clubs are sending scouts around the land looking for a big hairy mullocking full forward and a nimble half back and then promising them the earth and young maids to switch to Dublin.

You're right, Revenue need to catch people on expenses and nixers, but rooting out the black/grey economy will always be thankless. And in Ireland moreso.

Actually not a lot of transfers between clubs in Gah. Must have agreement of parent (original) club - there have been instances of players in limbo having left club but not released, and therefore unable to join another club. Even less movement in rural areas where playing "for the parish" is the cornerstone of GAA. Moving club is often seen as akin to treason :tremble:.

Paying players (almost inevitable) will weaken this aspect of GAA and therby weaken the grass roots/ community linkage that GAA currently enjoys. Think of the annual merry go round of LOI players between clubs and contrast with the sometimes multigenerational local/family commitment to GAA clubs. It appears (unfortunately) GAA moving more towards football model than the reverse.

[Macy]

Actually not a lot of transfers between clubs in Gah.
Within a county, but between clubs in different counties doesn't seem much of an issue. Hence certain Dublin clubs hoover up talent from around the country. The GAA, in Dublin at least, is like the last days of amateurism in Rugby imo. GAA won't be bothered until it starts effecting the County teams more.

[Patrick Dunne]

Club and county loyalty, a volunteer ethos, and a higher standard of general fitness are three areas where the GAA score higher than LOI.

There were least two cases in the LOI last season of a large visible bulge under the jersey, this would be unthinkable at inter-county and senior club level (you might get away with it at Junior C).

The "any chance of a few pound, boss" mentality at LOI is sickening. Top players like your Twiggs, Ndos, etc, etc, need to be well paid. However there a lot of people at lower levels getting money out of the game who really are only a drain on resources. If all First Division players were on expenses only (not €200-€500 a week as some are), would the standard drop considerably ?

The merry-go-round has deteoriated over the last few seasons - in the past, players generally might play for 2-4 clubs over a fifteen year career, now a 23 year old could easily have played for five different clubs. The sight of a group moving en bloc from Monaghan to Drogheda, after winning promotion, demonstrates the nature of the League of Ireland in 2012.

My experience might differ from supporters of the leading clubs, however the lower you go in the league, the more the less savoury aspects of the LOI come to the surface. Rant over !

[Straightstory]

Higher fitness in the GAA? You must be joking. I've seen some real bogball fatties.

[Acornvilla]

Higher fitness in the GAA? You must be joking. I've seen some real bogball fatties.
This man played for longford for years! What an athlete!

http://raydonlon.smugmug.com/2011/August/13-August-2011-Longford-Senior/i-jN9HNRS/1/L/034sva130811-L.jpg

[Straightstory]

The GAA's presence abroad is growing and now with a tech age around us, it won't be long before the growing European leagues begin to feed back, added to this the North American and Australasian set-ups and there will be, within 5-10 years, 1 or 2 ex-pat driven teams in All-Ireland championships at some level.
If Gaelic Games spread throughout Europe, and places like the UK, Spain and Italy took it up seriously, no doubt Ireland would soon be ranked about thirtieth in Europe (like the LOI) and the GAH fans would soon be supporting GAA teams in Manchester and Glasgow. I'd quite like to see that happen.

[Patrick Dunne]

The "spread of the game" is GAA propaganda to counter the international element of "foreign codes". The idea that Felipe from Luzon Gaels will take on Hans from Offenbach Slashers in a future World Championship is complete rubbish.

Bizarrely, virtually all GAA matches played abroad at a grounds belonging to "foreign codes" or local authorities.

[bennocelt]

One thing that always gets me wondering is who the hell would pay gah players? I mean seriously, its bogball FFS:p!!!

[Rasputin]

Dude, go lie down, take a drink and relax. You've made your points, you've come to a conclusion about yourself, so just let it go. Nothing more to see here my lad.
Ahh ya good man yourself.

[Rasputin]

a higher standard of general fitness are three areas where the GAA score higher than LOI.
Higher standard of general fitness?
Absurd really as I stated before to compare both sporting codes is very hard seeing that they are seperate entities and the GAA cannot be compared to an international standard because they continue to wallow in their own international irrelevancy.

[marinobohs]

Club and county loyalty, a volunteer ethos, and a higher standard of general fitness are three areas where the GAA score higher than LOI.
My experience might differ from supporters of the leading clubs, however the lower you go in the league, the more the less savoury aspects of the LOI come to the surface. Rant over !

Love a good rant myself but fact should not be the first victim

-Fans in LOI are every bit as loyal to their club as Gah heads, and most are wedded (for worse or worse) to the one club for life. So it is not true to say Gah fans are more loyal to their club than LOI, even allowing for the "local parish" aspect.

Not one LOI club would survive today without a number of people volunteering their services in some shape or form. Many posters on here are actively involved in some way and on a voluntary basis. Again, not true to say Gah has any more voluntary ethos (except players) than LOI clubs.

No county teams in LOI so give you that one PD.
;)
Remain to be convinced that fitness levels in GAA are higher than LOI (especially with full time nature of some clubs in recent years) but would be interested to see any report/comparison

As seen with Mick O'Dwyer managing Kildare, Wicklow etc the merry go round is already coming to the GAA, closely following payment, sorry expenses :rolleyes:

[Mr A]

I think the point on club/county loyalty was referring to people's tendency to automatically attach themselves to their local club and county, rather than saying they have more dedicated followers than the LOI.