The Emigration Thread [Archive]

peadar1987

01/01/2012, 10:07 PM

I'm packing my bags now to go back to the UK after Christmas back at home, and it's starting to really hit home that I'm now an emigrant.

I had to leave to find a job, because there was nothing left for me here. I do feel guilty about having 16 years of education paid for by the Irish taxpayer, who won't see the benefit from it.

I don't regret leaving Ireland, though. Almost anyone who's been unemployed for a year would tell you what an awful experience it is. I'm a lot happier to be working, even if it is away from my family and old friends, and in a country a lot more different from Ireland than I initially expected.

Anyway, I thought I'd start a thread on it, as emigration is a pretty topical issue lots of people have strong opinions about, and experience with.

jebus

02/01/2012, 1:18 AM

Lots of my friends have either left or are leaving in 2012, some wish to come back, some will practically spit on the ground as they exit. I'm lucky enough that both myself and my girlfriend's jobs are pretty secure (knock on wood) so I'm hoping we'll see this through, but I'd rather not see friend's fly out obviously.

There's still some work in Dublin I think but anytime I've been home to Limerick or gone visiting friends in Cork it has become more obvious that this recession will do for any city outside of the capital as the government will sort out Dublin first and foremost. Limerick is looking more and more like a bomb hit it and Cork doesn't seem to be far behind.

I've heard people complain about those leaving the country but I honestly don't see what the problem is. There is little work left available so people have to move on. Sadly it will be a good few years yet before Ireland gets back to where we'd like it and by that stage those that emigrate will probably be settled in their new countries so I imagine we've lost a large chunk of a generation with this

mypost

02/01/2012, 1:55 AM

Foreigners usually handle the situation better, especially the European ones. If there's no work in their own country, there's usually another country a few hours down the road or line, with better prospects and opportunities, so it's not a major issue to emigrate from e.g. Czech Republic to Germany. And they can go back and forth fairly regularly.

Here we're stuck on a rock, and the only way out to most countries is by flying, which is a rare event and usually expensive. For those reasons, it's much harder to get back too, which makes the feeling of loss harder to bear. We also have relatively poor foreign language skills, so job prospects beyond English-speaking countries are usually few and far between. So when someone does emigrate, it's usually a huge event for them and their relatives.

BonnieShels

02/01/2012, 2:20 AM

As someone in a secure government job it pains me to see such generally capable and intelligent and decent people leave whilst I'm surrounded by idiots and muppets.

Some of my friends have moved to London and as they are involved in certain industries there's a serious likelihood that they won't be returning.

I'm currently working on my exit strategy so barring a serious unlikely promotion I'm outta here come summer 2015.

Hibs4Ever

02/01/2012, 6:24 AM

Moved to Prague 4 years ago. Plenty of work in IT here for anyone with that kind of experience. Brilliant place to live too

shantykelly

02/01/2012, 8:57 AM

just back from 10 months travelling, and I've been lucky enough to line up 4months work at home. But once I save up, I'm heading back to Australia, as there's a good bit of work out there. Loads of young Irish people too, especially in and around Perth. The only thing that I couldn't be bothered with is the huge drinking culture amongst the Irish in Australia, worse than I've ever seen, and working in construction I've seen a lot of heavy drinkers.

peadar1987

02/01/2012, 9:41 PM

I've heard people complain about those leaving the country but I honestly don't see what the problem is. There is little work left available so people have to move on. Sadly it will be a good few years yet before Ireland gets back to where we'd like it and by that stage those that emigrate will probably be settled in their new countries so I imagine we've lost a large chunk of a generation with this

I can understand where they're coming from, but for me, it was a choice between leave Ireland, or put a drain on the economy by signing onto the dole.

Ireland don't exactly have much of a nuclear industry, and the general mechanical and manufacturing sector isn't much better at the moment, so I doubt I'll be back at any time soon, unfortunately. I suppose I'm lucky I've only had to go as far as the UK, and not all the way to Australia or NZ.

superfrank

03/01/2012, 6:02 AM

I left for the Czech Republic in the summer as soon as I graduated.

Though, being honest, even if boom times were still here, I would have wanted to leave. I've never wanted to spend my life in Ireland. I'm lucky in that way as there were a lot more options outside Ireland and it was easier than it would have been if I'd graduated a few years ago.

Hibs4Ever

03/01/2012, 6:36 AM

I left for the Czech Republic in the summer as soon as I graduated.

How are you liking it here? I absolutely love it. Great standard of living, pretty much crime free, and non stop sports :D

superfrank

03/01/2012, 12:26 PM

I'm happy enough here, though I don't see myself staying here more than a year or two.

I spent a short time in Prague before coming to Brno, where I was offered a better job. It's a lot different from Prague, a lot harder to meet people when you don't have Czech but then it's a lot cheaper too so it's not all bad.

Hibs4Ever

03/01/2012, 12:32 PM

Fair play. Can't imagine living outside Prague while in Cz, that said, I've yet to visit Brno, have only passed through it

superfrank

03/01/2012, 1:30 PM

There's not much to it, really, but I was following the money and there was more to be made here, and with less hassle, than if I'd stayed in Prague.

horton

04/01/2012, 11:33 AM

Is there any figures about the impact this brain drain will have? I lived in England for 5 years, and whilst it wasn't as big a cultural shock as it would be for someone from RoI, I always longed for home. As I had got a "dream job" of sorts, which I could never get in Derry I was happy enough to stick it out. Along comes David Cameron with his powerful axe and I'm out of a job. Wasn't much secure work available elsewhere so decided to up sticks and return to NI.
Now that I'm back it just doesn't feel the same, most of my friends are scattered around Belfast and Derry just isn't the same place to me. Whilst I've got a secure job, I couldn't spend the rest of my life doing it so I'll be an emigrant again soon enough. I've got bugger all foreign language skills so will need to be an english speaking country, not sure if it'll be England again as I'd like to venture further afield this time.

Hibs4Ever

04/01/2012, 12:56 PM

I've got bugger all foreign language skills so will need to be an english speaking country, not sure if it'll be England again as I'd like to venture further afield this time.

Might not be needed. Over here in Cz is full of huge American companies. For most jobs Czech is not required

peadar1987

04/01/2012, 6:59 PM

Now that I'm back it just doesn't feel the same, most of my friends are scattered around Belfast and Derry just isn't the same place to me. Whilst I've got a secure job, I couldn't spend the rest of my life doing it so I'll be an emigrant again soon enough. I've got bugger all foreign language skills so will need to be an english speaking country, not sure if it'll be England again as I'd like to venture further afield this time.

I found the same, I was out of work for the guts of a year, after coming back from a Masters in Scotland. Dublin wasn't the same place for me when I came back. All my mates had gone off for work abroad, or else the geniuses who had managed to beat off all the competition and get a job in Ireland were up to their eyeballs in work. I started to realise that even though Dublin is still home, my friends are now scattered all over the globe, and there are no real ties holding me to Dublin.

I'm lucky in that I quite enjoy learning languages. I have passable French, and a little Dutch and German, so I really would like to live and work somewhere interesting and foreign for a while. I was thinking Quebec, perhaps. The job I have at the moment pays the bills, but it's not what I want to do for the rest of my life. Or even the rest of my twenties.

But if things do pick up back home, then I have the guilt of that free education the Irish economy isn't seeing the benefit of.

osarusan

05/01/2012, 12:40 AM

After a few years in Japan, I came back to Ireland in Sept 2008, worked on and off for a year, then did a Master's in UL. I was very very fortunate in that UL has an affiliation with a Japanese university, and they were looking to replace their departing teachers with others from the same university (to maintain a balance of nationalities in their teaching staff). I applied for and got the job, and moved to Tokyo in april of last year.

I'm different from a lot of other people leaving Ireland in that I had a job before leaving, but there's no question that I'd perfer to be working in Ireland. It's unlikely to happen any time soon though. After my contract finishes here, I'm wondering where will be next.

Spudulika

05/01/2012, 9:06 AM

Peadar, don't feel guilty about free education in Ireland, it certainly isn't free and could do so much more for us, however from experience it is one of the better systems in the world, one great thing we can be sure of is that under the state controlled marking, results actually mean something. I know this isn't an education thread so I'll leave it.

I left Ireland as soon as I graduated in 1996 for a few reasons - 1. there were precious little jobs or hope of jobs, everyone I knew was leaving or going on for another degree (I couldn't have afforded to go onto a HDip or anything else), 2. at the time my 2 chosen professions had nothing doing (sports and archaeology) and 3. I had a 2 year contract offer with further prospects. I tried to come back 3 times since, the last time I'd accepted a job offer to begin work the first week in February 2009, I went back with my other half to hand in our notices, then I landed back the last week in January to find an apartment etc etc, I just started work one week and the company's parent (in Germany) pulled the plug, I was left with nothing. So I just came back to Moscow and got more work.

I would dearly love to come back to Ireland as I know it's an amazing country, there are no people I've met as decent and warm as the Irish and I miss sports in Ireland. There are lots of faults, as with anywhere, though it's home and always will be. But now, my kids will probably grow up knowing my home as the place they go to visit the odd time and never be accepted as Irish. I've met more people arriving from Ireland here in Russia in the last 12 months, actually this year, than I did in the preceding 2-3 years. Lots of young guys and girls coming to teach english, girls coming to work as nannies, IT people, engineers and even some construction people. The embassy here tries to keep tabs on the numbers but most new arrivals don't bother to register and you only bump into them by accident once they've copped on and avoid the "oirish" pubs. I've gotten 1 former classmate a teaching job here, he'd been 9 years teaching at a CBS in Dublin, yet was always on contract and never permanent, yet he ended up covering for teachers who had more than 20 years service worked up and played hard and fast with the rules in skiving off. He was told in August that his contract was not being renewed. He's been here since October and probably will move on later in the year to some other country.

We all know at least one person who has emigrated, and every family is touched in some way, yet economists and government spinners will say it's a pressure valve - that without emigration we'd have bigger problems. They're probably right, though when a country takes the 3rd world mentality of exporting people to prevent problems at home, you have to wonder do we deserve our own land.

mypost

06/01/2012, 5:16 AM

I've met more people arriving from Ireland here in Russia in the last 12 months, actually this year, than I did in the preceding 2-3 years. The embassy here tries to keep tabs on the numbers but most new arrivals don't bother to register and you only bump into them by accident once they've copped on and avoid the "oirish" pubs.

How many of them were over to just watch the Ireland-Russia game?

I think Russia is still off the track when Irish, and other Westerners want to go somewhere else. Not saying people don't go, a few do obviously, but there are plenty of easier countries to settle in than Russia imo.

Spudulika

06/01/2012, 11:26 AM

How many of them were over to just watch the Ireland-Russia game?

I think Russia is still off the track when Irish, and other Westerners want to go somewhere else. Not saying people don't go, a few do obviously, but there are plenty of easier countries to settle in than Russia imo.

Ireland played Russia in September, I don't know of such dedicated fans who arrived in May for the build up and who stayed on, likewise those who arrived last February, and last month. So I have a sneaking feeling the football fans have returned home, unless some have been locked up in fleshpot basements for unpaid services or some such.

There's never been a better time to pick up work in Russia, it's always been a good destination for Irish people, throughout the country, obviously Moscow in particular, there are so many leading managers and executives from home. Of course there are the Irish companies doing business here - Mercury, Aer Rianta (though they're easing out) and the various food companies. Irish staff (business) are preferred to British I've found, though teaching can be a little tricky as the British/English have their claws in and are dreadfully biased against Irish staff, though local schools and US/Canadian establishments pay above he norm to get Irish staff in.

Of course there are lots of better/easier countries to settle into, however it depends on the person. If you can't settle in Russia you will not find it easy to settle anywhere else - which then begs the question if you're a) suited to go abroad or b) want to go abroad. There was a guy working with VTB here, quite high up and fairly decent skin, however once he'd done the gentleman's clubs and showed off enough, he fled claiming there was nothing to do in Russia. While the Dr. Johnson saying doesn't quite fit, but saying there's nothing to do in Russia..... :-)

peadar1987

06/01/2012, 1:03 PM

Spudulika

06/01/2012, 1:34 PM

Russian is supposed to be ungodly to learn though, that would be my main concern if I moved over there. Even if there were lots of Irish, I'd feel pretty ignorant just hanging around other ex-pats, a bit like those Brits who retire to the South of France and demand marmalade and the Times with their breakfast, and cringe if they're expected to speak a work of French.

:-) Oh lord, I blushed like a Sligo fan on debs night when their cousin isn't available 5 years ago in Split when I overheard a British couple (who were 2-3 years living near the city) remonstrate with a local waiter over a pizza. They went on and on in english calling him all sorts when he clearly understood them and he stood there looking shocked. Yet they were able to turn to me right after and say how they felt they fit in locally.

Russian's not too difficult to learn, I came to it from Croatian, though I learned that lingo handy enough. It's seen as difficult because of the cyrillic letters, though the language itself is okay. Forget grammar and just get on with it and the locals are good to go.

And I suppose the adventure and earning potential helps, though it's hard enough to save, it's not cheap and going out for drinks wipes out a salary quickly (painful experience). However sports are plentiful and cheap, the ice hockey is good (if poorly presented). Though to be honest I'd rather go back to Canada if I were a few years younger, not Quebec - 3 months in Montreal were enough.

peadar1987

06/01/2012, 2:52 PM

:-) Oh lord, I blushed like a Sligo fan on debs night when their cousin isn't available 5 years ago in Split when I overheard a British couple (who were 2-3 years living near the city) remonstrate with a local waiter over a pizza. They went on and on in english calling him all sorts when he clearly understood them and he stood there looking shocked. Yet they were able to turn to me right after and say how they felt they fit in locally.

I was in Salzburg while interrailing with my gf in 2009, and we met a man from Mississippi, who ticked all the "American stereotype" boxes. I got drawn into an argument with him through feeling the need to defend a Canadian, who was being lectured about how he lived in a borderline fascist state that was fast on the road to becoming a socialist hell-hole like Nazi Germany. This was because of that greatest of evils, a public health care system.

I unilaterally ended the conversation due to his rage when I suggested that he might be on the same road, albeit not quite so far along, because he supported a public fire service and military.

Anyway, in between, I managed to find out that he had been living in Basel for 3 years, and did not speak a single word of either French or German. He simply hadn't bothered. I have never seen my gf look so shocked, but then again, this is the girl who, after 2 hours in Slovenia, and a fifty-word phrasebook, could tell me from a tannoy announcement that our train was delayed, and how late it would be.

Russian's not too difficult to learn, I came to it from Croatian, though I learned that lingo handy enough. It's seen as difficult because of the cyrillic letters, though the language itself is okay. Forget grammar and just get on with it and the locals are good to go.

I'd heard bad things about the grammar alright, lots of cases, lots of declensions. It does seem relatively clear though, unlike French, so once you know plenty of words, perhaps it isn't too hard to recognise them when you hear them.

And I suppose the adventure and earning potential helps, though it's hard enough to save, it's not cheap and going out for drinks wipes out a salary quickly (painful experience). However sports are plentiful and cheap, the ice hockey is good (if poorly presented). Though to be honest I'd rather go back to Canada if I were a few years younger, not Quebec - 3 months in Montreal were enough.

You didn't like Quebec? Was there anything in particular wrong with it, or just not your type of place?

I'm a little limited in where I can go by poor language skills, and a complete intolerance for heat (which rules out most of the southern hemisphere except New Zealand, Chile, and Patagonia!). I was thinking South America at some point, there were some Chileans in my Masters who were really good lads, and Spanish is supposed to be very easy to pick up if you already have French.

mypost

06/01/2012, 6:04 PM

Russian's not too difficult to learn, I came to it from Croatian, though I learned that lingo handy enough. It's seen as difficult because of the cyrillic letters, though the language itself is okay. Forget grammar and just get on with it and the locals are good to go.

And I suppose the adventure and earning potential helps, though it's hard enough to save, it's not cheap and going out for drinks wipes out a salary quickly (painful experience). However sports are plentiful and cheap, the ice hockey is good (if poorly presented).

I can understand the alphabet, it's not too difficult, but actual vocabulary is a bit of a sore point tbh.

The place is a bit of an adventure alright, in many ways. Their Christmas is tomorrow. Can't see too many Paddies celebrating it, as it's so different from home.

Spudulika

06/01/2012, 8:47 PM

this is the girl who, after 2 hours in Slovenia, and a fifty-word phrasebook, could tell me from a tannoy announcement that our train was delayed, and how late it would be.

I have fluent Croatian yet when Slovenes start yapping away I get lost. And it's bad to say this as I've been up there so often. So your gf is a keeper!

I'd heard bad things about the grammar alright, lots of cases, lots of declensions. It does seem relatively clear though, unlike French, so once you know plenty of words, perhaps it isn't too hard to recognise them when you hear them It's a case of getting a base vocab and working with it. My grammar wobbles every so often, or more often than not, but language is organic so you can always get away with it, unless the person you're talking with is a clown.

You didn't like Quebec? Was there anything in particular wrong with it, or just not your type of place? I can't say I don't like Quebec, it's very big and diverse, it's just that I think I had so many dodgy experiences there - Italian-Canadian mafia, ex-Yugo hoods, French-Arab racists, getting ripped off on a contract etc etc. But I liked some of it, I used to go watch the Expos play and it was so cheap for a seat behind home plate. While Montreal is a strange little city, though the locals I found genuinely nice - despite warnings to the contrary. I think it's just, well, a dump all for immigrants, non-english speakers I should add. Oh, but the jazz and theatre scene is good, not too many anglo's left there though.

I'm a little limited in where I can go by poor language skills, and a complete intolerance for heat (which rules out most of the southern hemisphere except New Zealand, Chile, and Patagonia!). I was thinking South America at some point, there were some Chileans in my Masters who were really good lads, and Spanish is supposed to be very easy to pick up if you already have French. South America would be great, Argentina would be lovely, and if you have french then it's not a major stretch to get the hang of Spanish. NZ seems to be a good spot, we had a couple of Kiwi's working and playing with us, easy folks to get on with. Don't ever let poor language skills stop you, you'll make some sort of way. Actually, something a friend of mine told me (she works now in Malta) turn your lack of language to your advantage. In spots like Russia or Korea (so I've been told) it's an advantage.

Spudulika

06/01/2012, 8:52 PM

I can understand the alphabet, it's not too difficult, but actual vocabulary is a bit of a sore point tbh.

The place is a bit of an adventure alright, in many ways. Their Christmas is tomorrow. Can't see too many Paddies celebrating it, as it's so different from home.

TV is full of Christmas here, imagine standing for 4 hours listening to someone praying - I did one Easter and never again. It's kind of mad for kids (mine love it, well, the little lad just things every day is great) - they get Christmas (ours), then New Years (the major holiday here) and then they get another Christmas (7th) and another New Years (14th). Hard on the budget though.

You know, it's odd with the alphabet - you'll understand what I mean. When I get home for a couple of days I'm completely bojjoxed. I'm reading p like r, H like N and can't switch my brain correctly - it led to a difficult moment in March at a Rovers match. I know what you mean with the vocab, however the only thing that keeps me alive is just trying to pick up 2-3 words a day, and even then it's a killer.

peadar1987

06/01/2012, 10:40 PM

I have fluent Croatian yet when Slovenes start yapping away I get lost. And it's bad to say this as I've been up there so often. So your gf is a keeper!

She has a fantastic ear for languages, she's a bright girl anyway, but she moved from Holland to the UK when she was 11, and had to learn English from scratch, essentially by ear, I think that might have a lot to do with it.

My biggest problem with languages is the speed of processing and the accuracy of hearing you need to converse in them. I can read French at a pretty high level, and would be able to get the gist of, say, a piece on the Le Monde website, or a non-technical wikipedia article. As soon as it comes to trying to understand someone speaking at full speed, I can't distinguish many of the words, and even when I can, things are happening too quickly for me to actually figure out what they mean.

And then you have the gf, who managed to pick out "Ljubljana", the word for "fifteen", and the word for "late" from the rest, and not even have to think about what the whole thing meant, just intuitively knowing. It makes me very jealous!

It's a case of getting a base vocab and working with it. My grammar wobbles every so often, or more often than not, but language is organic so you can always get away with it, unless the person you're talking with is a clown.

It's always possible to get by in shops and the like with point and smile if you have a few basic words. I managed in Italy with French, and Germany with Dutch as well, if you speak slowly, use single words where possible, and don't try anything too complicated, people generally seem to get what you're trying to say (And to be fair, if you're in an ice cream shop, you shouldn't need perfect language skills for the person behind the counter you want to buy an ice cream!). It's such a huge step up from getting by to actually having a proper conversation though, diminishing returns and all that.

I can't say I don't like Quebec, it's very big and diverse, it's just that I think I had so many dodgy experiences there - Italian-Canadian mafia, ex-Yugo hoods, French-Arab racists, getting ripped off on a contract etc etc. But I liked some of it, I used to go watch the Expos play and it was so cheap for a seat behind home plate. While Montreal is a strange little city, though the locals I found genuinely nice - despite warnings to the contrary. I think it's just, well, a dump all for immigrants, non-english speakers I should add. Oh, but the jazz and theatre scene is good, not too many anglo's left there though.

That's interesting to know. I've always wanted to spend some time in Canada, and though Quebec would be less full of Irish and Brits than, say, Vancouver. (Not that I have anything against Irish or Brits, obviously, but if I've moved half way across the world, the last thing I want is to be surrounded by J1-ers. If I'm living in a different culture, I'd prefer to do it properly!)

South America would be great, Argentina would be lovely, and if you have french then it's not a major stretch to get the hang of Spanish. NZ seems to be a good spot, we had a couple of Kiwi's working and playing with us, easy folks to get on with. Don't ever let poor language skills stop you, you'll make some sort of way. Actually, something a friend of mine told me (she works now in Malta) turn your lack of language to your advantage. In spots like Russia or Korea (so I've been told) it's an advantage.

How so? To be honest, the language thing has put me off the idea of living in the Far East. I've heard nothing but nice things about the Koreans, but I've heard it is very difficult to adjust to Japan, they supposedly have a very negative attitude towards foreigners in general, and caucasians in particular (although we probably have a long way to go before we pass out the Chinese)

osarusan

06/01/2012, 10:57 PM

but I've heard it is very difficult to adjust to Japan, they supposedly have a very negative attitude towards foreigners in general, and caucasians in particular.
This was absolutely not my experience. The Japanese people are very friendly and helpful, and very willing to forgive the many cultural mistakes foreigners will make.

strangeirish

07/01/2012, 3:49 AM

Ah lads, you haven't experienced deciphering languages and cultural differences until you've lived in Florida! I've been here almost 26 years and still can't figure the feckers out...Y'all.

*Cue the cross-eyed, marbles in the mouth Banjo music*

The Fly

07/01/2012, 4:39 AM

peadar1987

07/01/2012, 7:57 AM

This was absolutely not my experience. The Japanese people are very friendly and helpful, and very willing to forgive the many cultural mistakes foreigners will make.

I'll take your word for it, knowing the person I heard this from it's just as likely the Japanese didn't like him because he was a gob****e!

Spudulika

07/01/2012, 11:36 AM

Peadar you'd probably like Montreal, I did, in fairness, enjoy the place, I think it was just trying to deal with the people I was working with that soured me. Also from what I saw (way back when) the city was still hungover from the most recent secession vote. Lots of big companies had pulled out of Quebec and when were were out in the boonies playing matches there were some small towns (like Chicoutimi, Riviere du loup, Frontenac, St. Georges) that gave that old Deliverance feel and everybody looked the same. Though Quebec City was outstanding in it's beauty.

Osarusan, I'll 2nd what you've said about the Japanese. We've had many players over in Japan (some complete twisters) but the locals were unfailingly polite. I'm going for the first time in late March.early April for a couple of weeks and looking forward to it.

BonnieShels

07/01/2012, 12:37 PM

Florida - America's enema bag.

It's America's wang.

MariborKev

07/01/2012, 4:45 PM

In a certain way I think it is hard for Dubs to leave.

In Ireland there is the huge drain to Dublin anyway, so if you have moved to there then moving somewhere else it isn't as bad. Plus, when you find that most of your friends are now scattered round the UK and further afield then you don't have the "quantum mass" of people you miss when you move away. You are back at Christmas, they are back at Christmas, that's what it's like.

I'd say I'll be on the emigration wagon by the summer anyway. Thankfully not through need, but through choice.

Spudulika

09/01/2012, 5:43 AM

Macy

09/01/2012, 1:47 PM

It depends on the Dub MK :-) Emigration is easier for everyone now as home is just a flight away. Plus I don't know if many people who leave now are figuring on never going home (to live). Last night I sat down for a few drinks with a pretty new crew here (Irish who've been in Moscow/Rostov at most 10 months). They don't figure on staying in Russia, first of all, and secondly the talk was about the Irish economy picking up in a few years and being able to go back. Now this can always change - marriage, job, kids etc - though the prevailing feeling amongst everyone was that we'd all be back home in a few years time.
No one in the 50's or 80's waves (and the many in between) thought they were gone for good either...

Gotta say, a lot of the stories here read like choice rather than some form of necessity. Just to go back to spud's earlier post about leaving in the mid 90's - certainly by the late 90's, early 00's there were jobs. May not have been your ideal or what you wanted to do, but that's a different case to people in recessions who are desperate for any work, in my opinion.

Spudulika

09/01/2012, 5:37 PM

No one in the 50's or 80's waves (and the many in between) thought they were gone for good either...

Gotta say, a lot of the stories here read like choice rather than some form of necessity. Just to go back to spud's earlier post about leaving in the mid 90's - certainly by the late 90's, early 00's there were jobs. May not have been your ideal or what you wanted to do, but that's a different case to people in recessions who are desperate for any work, in my opinion.

Agreed on the late-90's, I came back to work for a short while in '99 (archaeology) as there was a virtual boom. I actually met a future colleague who'd been in UCC and I spent about 3 months working in Waterford (on the by-pass). However what I found was that the traditional, or proper scientific form of archaeology was completely thrown aside and completely populated by charlatans or "businessmen". I don't know how many thousands of archaeological sites and finds were destroyed for "progress", Carrickmines is the most disgusting example of it, but it was constant. And then from 2000-2001 the wasters who were bringing in mad money for vanishing a fulacht fiadh as quickly as possible so that the diggers could get back to work were replaced with cheaper eastern European staff, having just about seen off or absorbed cheaper British staff. I smile when I think of one of the site directors landing in his jeep on a soaking wet October morning and delivering a new digger to us, who he'd met thumbing a lift the Cork side of Dungarvan. He lasted a week before the Gardai turned up at the hostel and he got a few years for drug dealing, aggravated assault and sexual assault. I went back to Germany the next week.

gastric

11/01/2012, 8:19 AM

Lads, reading this shows you are a very educated lot! I left Ireland in 90 with a degree and after working in a crap job in Dublin, I spent 4 years in London and then I came to Australia and married an Australian. I really thought with the boom that the scourge of emigration was gone forever and now it is even worse than the 80s. I have found that you never really leave emotionally and I am proud to be Irish. Since I came to Oz, the advent of the internet, forums such as this, Setanta TV and Skpe have helped narrow the distance between here and home. I have two teenage daughters who are Australian and I know I will never live in Ireland again, but I am lucky that I can afford to go home every year. I feel good been able to communicate here my experience with others who are just now going through the pain of emigration. I find leaving my parents the hardest when I leave. I suppose the real point of my post is Peadar don't feel guilty about your education - you deserve it and your parents have probably paid tax their whole lives. Over the years, it gets easier but home will always be home. Communicating with other Irish people and getting a feel for their experiences and fears is really important in coming to terms with your situation. I hope this helps somewhat Peadar, and thank you for setting up this thread which I think is badly needed at this time.

pineapple stu

11/01/2012, 11:30 AM

I really thought with the boom
Point of pedantry, but there was a discussion on propertypin.com about this phrase, and how it'd be far more accurate to describe the "boom" as the bubble. I'm going to try to adopt the phrase myself anyway.

Spudulika

11/01/2012, 12:49 PM

PS, it's better than the "celtic tiger" - first of all, we're not celts, Ireland is not celtic, and tiger - an endangered species only found in european zoos. Given a choice between boom and celtic tiger, I'd go for the former. But bubble is probably more appropriate.

Gastric, you made me think alot of my own situation, I just hope to get back to Ireland someday, even if it means after retirement.

Macy

11/01/2012, 1:36 PM

Point of pedantry, but there was a discussion on propertypin.com about this phrase, and how it'd be far more accurate to describe the "boom" as the bubble. I'm going to try to adopt the phrase myself anyway.
Some of it was a boom - mid 90's to early 00's. You can nearly correlate the start of the actual bubble to McCreevy's 01 budget. The solution to the rap on the knuckles from the EU for putting even more money into the economy was SSIA's, which then inflated the bubble further when they matured. Never ceases to amaze how he's still held up as some one who managed the economy...

bennocelt

11/01/2012, 9:49 PM

Spudulika

12/01/2012, 4:04 AM

Sorry amigo, this is what UCD does to a person! Use celtic or celt as you will, sure it's all for the craic anyway :-)

mypost

12/01/2012, 5:09 AM

It depends on the Dub MK :-) Emigration is easier for everyone now as home is just a flight away.

Home was always just a flight away, ever since the 50's.

A lot don't come home. You can't blame them tbh, with the state the country is in. The economy is 100% foreign owned, and run by brown envelopes.

If you're on the European mainland, you can hop and skip from country to country as needs be, and you don't necessarily need flights to get by. You just need documentation and languages mainly. Here you're stuck on a rock, and the only way in and out to 95% of other countries is flights, and expensive ones at that.

peadar1987

12/01/2012, 6:09 PM

One thing I've noticed since being over here is the difference in reaction to my accent. Most of the time people seem grand about it, but if you do something wrong, things regress to the 1950s, and you're suddenly a thick Paddy. I've seen this more and more the further south I go, until in some parts near London, you'd be better off with leprosy than any sort of an accent. Has anybody else noticed this?

micls

13/01/2012, 2:24 AM

I emigrated a year and a half ago with my boyfriend. I had a secure job teaching but he was out of work for 18months and it was not a good time for us. So, I took a career break and we left for Thailand. Absolutely love it. It's tough seeing family and friends so little, but the country is amazing and our standard of living is miles above what we'd have at home. The main thing though is the atmosphere. Even at home over Xmas, it's just all a bit depressing. Here, it's all sun and smiles most of the time.

The language is very tough and I haven't learned anywhere near enough, I have the basics to get by but that's about it.

We're gonna move on elsewhere next year. It's not so bad for us, as we are here by choice really. Also, I have my job to go back to once I return within 5 years.....but it's hard to even think about going back at the minute.

I guess we'll go back then, see if we can cope, and if not head away again.