The Emigration Thread [Archive] - Page 2

Macy

24/01/2012, 9:04 AM

yeah but not for over 120,000 and growing!!!!!!!!!!
For some it is. I know tradespeople that were tipping away here ok in the scheme of things, but have gone for the bigger bucks abroad. I don't consider that as being forced out. If you asked them or they're families they'd be saying "no work", but in some cases it's in comparison to the rates that they could command in the bubble.

bennocelt

24/01/2012, 10:24 AM

For some it is. I know tradespeople that were tipping away here ok in the scheme of things, but have gone for the bigger bucks abroad. I don't consider that as being forced out. If you asked them or they're families they'd be saying "no work", but in some cases it's in comparison to the rates that they could command in the bubble.

Well i can only talk about my own situation and that of my wife, if we stayed in ireland i would be out of work and my wife would be on a much reduced salary.
Do you not realise that there are feck all jobs in Ireland?????

Dodge

24/01/2012, 11:20 AM

But your situation is your own. Some have a choice, others don't. There was always emigration from Ireland, and always will be

Politicians and business men will be as selective as they can to suit their agenda

Macy

24/01/2012, 11:33 AM

Do you not realise that there are feck all jobs in Ireland?????
Sure I hadn't noticed... Noonan's point was that for some it is a lifestyle choice. He is right, for some it is, but for others it's a last resort.

bennocelt

24/01/2012, 12:05 PM

Yeah doh that is obvious, but you cant argue that the numbers leaving the country are very high at the moment, and my situation is replicated all over the place. I know many Irish abroad that would just love to be home, myself included, but we cant.
Whatever he meant the current situation makes it sound very crass imho

pineapple stu

24/01/2012, 1:23 PM

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/noonan-lots-of-families-children-emigrating-as-lifestyle-choice-536615.html
Thanks.

Don't have a problem with what he's said. Unfortunately, the nature of politics is that making the other side look bad comes before actually doing anything constructive, so it was an easy thing for FF to latch on to. And so cue hysteria amongst people who haven't actually read what was said.

bennocelt

24/01/2012, 1:28 PM

Ireland must be doing great so, is it:rolleyes:

pineapple stu

24/01/2012, 1:31 PM

Of course the country's not doing great. I don't see what that has to do with anything though?

bennocelt

24/01/2012, 1:35 PM

Of course the country's not doing great. I don't see what that has to do with anything though?

How many were leaving for "lifestyle choices" during the boom times?

pineapple stu

24/01/2012, 4:03 PM

They were there. I know plenty of people who went to work in England around 2002/03 (not long out of college), for example. Their call.

bennocelt

24/01/2012, 4:39 PM

Yeah but Im not arguing that the Irish don't travel for leisure, I'm arguing that in these times when emigration is on the rise again due to reasons of unemployment and lack of (none) opportunities, for a minister charged in government with trying to sort this mess out shouldnt really be coming out with statements like this. Good for his kids and their nice private education no doubt.
Reminds back in the day when FF (Lennihan or Flynn, cant remember) used to recommend emigration to young people as a way of alleviating the jobs issue. Things have come full circle, the 80s are def back.

peadar1987

24/01/2012, 8:39 PM

Well, I could have stayed in Ireland, and perhaps eventually found a job stacking shelves, or doing data entry, or digging ditches, if I really tried. Not that there is anything wrong with any of those professions, but it's not what I want to do, and without wanting to sound arrogant, would be an absolute waste of all the education I've gone through. I left because I could only find a job in engineering in the UK (I'm hardly in Leicester for the unique culture and life-affirming experiences!), just because I could have stayed at home in a far less well-paid or challenging job doesn't, in my opinion, make me that much less entitled to claim I'm a victim of the recession than someone who had the choice between the dole in Ireland, and working the building sites over here.

pineapple stu

24/01/2012, 9:40 PM

for a minister charged in government with trying to sort this mess out shouldnt really be coming out with statements like this.
All that shows is that you haven't actually read the statement.

mypost

24/01/2012, 10:51 PM

Well, I could have stayed in Ireland, and perhaps eventually found a job stacking shelves, or doing data entry, or digging ditches, if I really tried. Not that there is anything wrong with any of those professions, but it's not what I want to do, and would be an absolute waste of all the education I've gone through.

It's not 2000 anymore. These days, if you're offered a job here, you should take it, and ask questions later. When conditions improve, you can chase your dream job then. Meanwhile, it's easier to get Euro 2012 game tickets than find a job these days, for the hundreds of thousands of people in the country who genuinely want one.

bennocelt

25/01/2012, 3:01 AM

All that shows is that you haven't actually read the statement.

Do you not understand my post!!!! Insensitive timing on his part.Cant believe that he is willfully ignoring the real reasons behind the high level of emigration but he is an Irish politician so he might be actually that thick
So some people are leaving the country through choice. Wow that's great to know, thanks for that!

Macy

25/01/2012, 8:19 AM

How many were leaving for "lifestyle choices" during the boom times?
A significant number from my peer group, even amongst those that were fully certified for a trade. I know there's people, like yourself, that feel they had no choice. But all Noonan said that this isn't the case for everyone, which is true. He should've known better how it'd be spun though.

bennocelt

25/01/2012, 8:45 AM

A significant number from my peer group, even amongst those that were fully certified for a trade. I know there's people, like yourself, that feel they had no choice. But all Noonan said that this isn't the case for everyone, which is true. He should've known better how it'd be spun though.

Yeah and as I said Why the need for him to make these comments.

pineapple stu

25/01/2012, 10:23 AM

Real ale Madrid

25/01/2012, 10:57 AM

we'll end up with a planet of Daily Mail readers.

*shudders

bennocelt

25/01/2012, 11:08 AM

Often people are asked stuff. Are you saying honest answers shouldn't be given purely because the gutter media will twist them? That's not really a healthy way of looking at things; we'll end up with a planet of Daily Mail readers.

Yeah that's fine, but he was one of the ministers attacking FF when in opposition about this very question. Looks very hypocritical

(and what the hell would the question be - "emigration, whats it all about, eh?")

pineapple stu

25/01/2012, 2:13 PM

Who cares what the question was. You can read what Noonan said, and he's right in what he says.

bennocelt

25/01/2012, 2:52 PM

Who cares what the question was. You can read what Noonan said, and he's right in what he says.

Yeah he is right, and again I repeat - in the context of mass emigration due to LACK OF WORK AND OPPORTUNITIES, as a government minister he should be trying to sort this out and not trying to find excuses (which he so easily found in FF) for his government not curbing the problem.
So you obviously agree that all us exiles (well over 150,000) are having the time of our lives abroad, and its no way related to the state of the country. Wow:p

pineapple stu

25/01/2012, 3:34 PM

mypost

25/01/2012, 4:19 PM

Often people are asked stuff. Are you saying honest answers shouldn't be given purely because the gutter media will twist them? That's not really a healthy way of looking at things; we'll end up with a planet of Daily Mail readers.

If he stopped blaming the last government for the current mess, and opened a paper or watched the news anytime in the past 4 years, he would see how difficult the economic situation is, and how widespread the emigration issue is. That's not all "a lifestyle choice", it's in many cases, "no choice".

But when you have a secure job, you obviously live in a glass house. Same goes for MOL and the rest of them.

bennocelt

25/01/2012, 5:34 PM

Sigh...

No, I don't agree that ALL exiles are having the time of their lives, etc. But I never said that. Some people have emigrated for lifestyle reasons. That is a fact. I know some of them. That doesn't mean all people emigrated for lifestyle reasons, and it doesn't mean that Noonan isn't trying to sort the problem out.

Is this really that hard to understand?

No so you agree with me then, lol:)
Why did he bring it up then, what point was he trying to make?
That some of the people left for "lifestyle reasons". Good for them, so..........
Whats next - "some people" bought a 2012 car, "some people" have property and are not in negativity equity, "some people" can afford the tuition fees, and "some people" are doing well, and have employment. That's great news, never knew that at all!!!
I guess FG are working for "some" of the people who voted for them.:D

peadar1987

25/01/2012, 8:09 PM

It's not 2000 anymore. These days, if you're offered a job here, you should take it, and ask questions later. When conditions improve, you can chase your dream job then. Meanwhile, it's easier to get Euro 2012 game tickets than find a job these days, for the hundreds of thousands of people in the country who genuinely want one.

Yes, but my choice was either a decently-paid engineering job in the UK, or the dole over here, with the possibility of a minimum-wage, unskilled job, if I was lucky. I wouldn't have starved if I'd stayed in Ireland. I mightn't have even had to live off the dole, but it's hardly like I'm waxing surfboards in Australia because I prefer the climate there to Lehinch.

osarusan

25/01/2012, 10:35 PM

What Noonan said was correct, but it was bound to be picked up on and completely mis-represented. He probably should have known better.

bennocelt

26/01/2012, 5:06 AM

God, not another one!:p

Mr A

26/01/2012, 9:50 AM

I have no problem whatsoever with what Noonan said because it was 100% true. The reaction to it has yet again highlighted the utterly crap standard of opposition and reporting in this country. It also highlighted once again that there a lot of people out there who like to feel offended.

bennocelt

26/01/2012, 10:30 AM

Argh!!!!
I think a lot of people need to get off their high horse
No one is arguing about the actual facts of the matter, even if the numbers are small. I am arguing why there is a need for him (and ye) to use this argument at all. Whats your/the motivation. Yeah we know some people leave Ireland for a trip or a change but to IGNORE the majority who are leaving for work is a joke and I am insulted. Why state one fact and ignore the other. He has responsibility to do something but yet he has all the smart answers.
Please for ye guys send me to the link where he discusses the real reasons for the spike in emigration. But I doubt you can find one. God, foot,ie FG love fest!!!

pineapple stu

26/01/2012, 11:41 AM

And breathe...

bennocelt

26/01/2012, 11:44 AM

And breathe...

The quicker the LOI football season starts the better........................:ball:

peadar1987

13/02/2012, 6:01 PM

horton

13/02/2012, 8:23 PM

I wonder did anybody else seriously consider pretending to be Italian to justify their strangled little cheer when England conceded the first try yesterday...

Decided I couldn't pull it off, and instead went for the "it's only because their the underdog" defence
Pah, sure every Paddy knows there is only two teams to support - Ireland and whoever is playing against England, cheer away:p

BonnieShels

13/02/2012, 9:34 PM

I wonder why some people have this issue about supporting anyone but England?
I'm very brazen about it. Now not to an arrogant or ********ish extent, but at the end of the day they are our neighbours and the idea we have to be polite to them in a sporting context is mad. Do the Dutch support the Germans? Do the Canadians support the Yanks? Do the Pakistanis support India?
It's a natural cultural expression for most countries on the planet.
Don't get me wrong. I love England as a country. I love their people (some). I love their cities (some). I love what they have given to this country and the world (some).
But by golly do I love when they lose. Cos invariably it means I can dole out some serious stick to my Tan mates.

It annoys the hell out of me when the goody goody brigade over here start to give the "we should support England because we have matured as a nation" speech. Bullplop.

I would generally support anyone against England depending on the sport. (I would generally support them over the Aussies in anything and in Cricket generally)

Come June I will hopefully get lucky with my flights back from Poland and catch the second half of ENG v FRA and hopefully it'll mean that France are kicking their asses whilst I gracefully make my way through Heathrow.

Peadar, don't hide it next time. It's a lot of fun.

Spudulika

14/02/2012, 6:18 AM

I was asked last week (or 2 weeks ago in fact) why do so many Irish fans still show up at football tournaments when Ireland aren't playing? I said it was because we enjoy sports and some people love events. The next question was - in the last World Cup who did you support? And right away I said - whoever England were playing against, and France the same. It was accepted easily. When you have the biggest selling "newspaper" in the UK with a front page of E.A.S.Y. in relation to the group they were in, how can you like such arrogance when their national team is a load of cack. The Irish (West Brit sleeper brigade) PC nonces will tell us, time to forgive and forget, but these are the same clowns who'll say - I don't like sport. Twaddle, and not the GB gymnastic variety.

Back in 1996 I was sitting with friends in a bar in Canada, after a league match, and the barman tuned in to the World Cup of Hockey. Canada - USA and everybody waited to see what was going to happen. Within seconds of the puck being dropped a mass brawl broke out (on the ice) and the bar roared profanities at the Yanks and before this I'd thoughts the locals were easygoing. Local rivalry is normal, healthy and ultimately, the ones roaring abuse at the players all have more in common and get on well. It's only when the pc fools in the chattering classes try to interrupt with spurious nonsense that problems arise. One great thing we can say about our President is that as well as being a head in the clouds academic, he's a sports supporter. And he hates the english. Quite right too!

BonnieShels

14/02/2012, 8:42 AM

I think when discussing this you should try to avoid using the English tendency to be arrogant as a stick.

I merely came at it from a neighbourly point-of-view.

Spudulika

14/02/2012, 12:55 PM

:-) :cool:

peadar1987

18/02/2012, 9:25 PM

I was at a graduate induction event a while back, and got talking to a girl from the Home Counties (*spit*), first of all, she was outraged that we had been made go as far north as Reading to do this thing, but secondly, she was asking me what part of the north I was from (with my not-quite-D4-but-close accent). I told her I wasn't actually from the north, but from about as far west as you can get.

So then I get:

"So what part of Wales are you from then?"
"No, not Wales, Ireland"
"No, no, Ireland is in the north"

Followed by a lengthy lecture about how Ireland is a place in the north of England you can drive to in a car.

I was reminded of it the other day by a friend asking if I was going back up north for Paddy's Day.

How there are people unemployed when people who don't know in which direction neighbouring countries lie is beyond me!

mypost

18/02/2012, 10:10 PM

Was she a distant relative of Jade Goody? The woman who thought East Anglia was a country.

peadar1987

18/02/2012, 10:26 PM

Was she a distant relative of Jade Goody? The woman who thought East Anglia was a country.

I doubt it. Judging by her accent, she'd been to a very expensive school. I suppose the location of Ireland had never cropped up in the world of polo and grouse-shooting. The class system in the UK is still something that takes some getting used to!

DannyInvincible

20/02/2012, 8:35 PM

I wonder why some people have this issue about supporting anyone but England?

Eamonn McCann had this mildly relevant piece in the Derry Journal the other week:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc12/poguemahone85/scan0002.jpg

I was at a graduate induction event a while back, and got talking to a girl from the Home Counties (*spit*), first of all, she was outraged that we had been made go as far north as Reading to do this thing, but secondly, she was asking me what part of the north I was from (with my not-quite-D4-but-close accent). I told her I wasn't actually from the north, but from about as far west as you can get.

So then I get:

"So what part of Wales are you from then?"
"No, not Wales, Ireland"
"No, no, Ireland is in the north"

Followed by a lengthy lecture about how Ireland is a place in the north of England you can drive to in a car.

I was reminded of it the other day by a friend asking if I was going back up north for Paddy's Day.

How there are people unemployed when people who don't know in which direction neighbouring countries lie is beyond me!

I've encountered similar ignorance myself from a girl from outside Liverpool who thought my friend was off home to Ireland when he told her he was getting the bus up to Glasgow from Manchester for the weekend. :bulgy: