Group C Euro 2012 General Discussion

[shakermaker1982]

Yep real danger man, great investment by Everton. I'd be happy with a draw in the first game.

[Junior]

We have to get something out of the first game thats for sure. A loss, and well I dont think there is any recovery from that really. Spain will obviously be difficult enough as it is but just say they did lose to Italy or draw...then they would certainly be stepping it up a few gears come match day 2 against us...dread the thought.

[AndrewEQuinn]

Hello,
We're a group with six season tickets for ROI games at the Aviva. We were allocated one ticket for the Euros. Does anyone know how we could go about securing four tickets for the three games?

Any help would be much appreciated.

My email address is [REMOVED - Do you really want /that/ level of spam?].

Thanks

Andrew

[elroy]

We have to get something out of the first game thats for sure. A loss, and well I dont think there is any recovery from that really. Spain will obviously be difficult enough as it is but just say they did lose to Italy or draw...then they would certainly be stepping it up a few gears come match day 2 against us...dread the thought.

Agreed 100%. A draw from the first game will keep things alive for the full group. Last thing we want is to be out of it after two games, it would ruin the good PR/wider public interest as much as everything else that the team is and will get from the Euros.

Following on from that, as regards qualification, well the analysis is quite similar. Draw or win the first game, enjoy the Spain game and who knows and then going into the Italian game it should be in our hands. IF that was the case, would I rule out us getting a win or draw against the Italians - no not at all.

[elroy]

Hello,
We're a group with six season tickets for ROI games at the Aviva. We were allocated one ticket for the Euros. Does anyone know how we could go about securing four tickets for the three games?

Any help would be much appreciated.

My email address is [REMOVED - Do you really want /that/ level of spam?].

Thanks

Andrew

Best bet is to keep an eye out on the uefa resale ticket portal that will re- open in two weeks or so I think.

https://ticketing.uefa.com/euro2012-en/ctp/allocations.aspx

[Cuyahoga]

Got my actual tickets for the Euros today.( Nice Cardboard Tickets)

[French Toasht]

Results I want from the 3 games not involving Ireland.

Spain V Italy - Pretty comprehensive Spanish victory
Italy v Croatia - A draw. Preferably 0-0
Spain v Croatia - A comprehensive Spanish victory.


If those results came to pass we could qualify by taking 4 points from Italy and Croatia and a low score defeat to Spain.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not allowed onto spread betting sites at work.

What is Ireland's total points spread in Group C?

I'm not sure what the typical buy/sell spread is in this type of bet. If assuming it's half a point my guess is the market is something like 2.25~2.75.

[geysir]

I think we'll be doing well to get one point. But if we get that point against Croatia and there is something to play for against Italy, then who can say how that game may transpire. The immeasurable enigma of Trap does loom large in that context.

One of Croatia/Italy/Ireland could qualify with just 2 points, if Spain win all and the the rest just draw with each other?

[Lionel Ritchie]

One of Croatia/Italy/Ireland could qualify with just 2 points, if Spain win all and the the rest just draw with each other?

I've been saying this back to anyone who's said to me that Spain will p1ss this group. But if they do it'll be a first.

Incidently I haven't checked the odds in a while as I'm not a betting man but I'll be sticking a tenner (high roller me) on Ireland and Croatia to get out of the group. 54/1 last I saw.

[DannyInvincible]

RTÉ are going to stream live video of the squad announcement from 3:30PM on Monday afternoon: http://greenscene.me/2012/05/rte-to-stream-ireland-squad-announcement-online/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Trap is also expected to name a list if between four and six players who'll be on standby.

[BonnieShels]

I just realised Monday is a bank holiday. I'll be watching it on the tellybox.

Anyone reckon that there'll be more than one bolter?

[Stuttgart88]

I just bought my 2 kids a Panini Euro 2012 sticker album each, and I'm promising special prizes for whoever gets the most Irish players. Daughter just got an English player and got angry with me when I went boo. Work to be done there I suppose but just after that she got Seamus Coleman. I didn't bother explaining that a dip in form makes him a marginal candidate.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd kill for another World Cup '90 collection
e9zotjtiXdk

[Crosby87]

Panini? The sandwich?

[Stuttgart88]

That's a panino

[Sullivinho]

Lovin' the panini nostalgia.

The fact you really had to nail the initial sticker placement was a valuable early life lesson in getting things right the first time. Here's (http://www.scribd.com/doc/32619894/Panini-World-Cup-1990) another of the 1990 ones. Irish mugshots on page 48.

[bennocelt]

I'd kill for another World Cup '90 collection
e9zotjtiXdk


wow thats top memories, always wondered why they dont do any of those albums nowadays

[BonnieShels]

I remember getting the one in the Star for 1990 and 1994.

[Junior]

Lovin' the panini nostalgia.

The fact you really had to nail the initial sticker placement was a valuable early life lesson in getting things right the first time. Here's (http://www.scribd.com/doc/32619894/Panini-World-Cup-1990) another of the 1990 ones. Irish mugshots on page 48.

Was never quite sure whether to be happy or sad at getting one of the 'foil' crests. A great quality sticker no doubt but just meant you got one less player sticker in the packet!

Good times.....

[magicman]

All of ye are missing the best one though! Remember the WC in '94? There was a bubble gum stick that would have a cartoon character of a player in the tournament? I remember dumping an old fridge i had in the garage last year that was my parents and the door was covered in those stickers!

[DannyInvincible]

All of ye are missing the best one though! Remember the WC in '94? There was a bubble gum stick that would have a cartoon character of a player in the tournament? I remember dumping an old fridge i had in the garage last year that was my parents and the door was covered in those stickers!

Ah, yes! I can still remember the taste of the chewing gum. Are you sure they featured actual players though? Unless I'm thinking of yet another set...

If we're thinking of the same ones, I remember them because I decorated/ruined (depending on perspective) my bedroom wall with them, much to my delight and my mother's dismay. Didn't they feature dubious national stereotypes with which you probably wouldn't get away nowadays wearing team colours and football boots? I think I recall the German one featuring a beer-bellied lump with a string of sausages wrapped around his sun-burnt and bulging neck. My memories of the other stickers are a bit sketchy. Probably for the best!

[BonnieShels]

I remember them too. Danny, you're spot on.

[DannyInvincible]

Can you remember any of the others? Pretty sure the Norwegian character was wearing a Viking hat. Was the Irish lad holding a pint of Guinness?

[BonnieShels]

Bang and bang.

I remember the dutch guy was holding in mini dykes.

[DannyInvincible]

Carles Puyol requires knee surgery and is likely to miss the Euros, according to SSN (https://twitter.com/#!/SkySportsNews/status/199795224409681920).

[DeLorean]

A really big loss if he is missing, especially with Pique having injury problems in recent weeks also. Who is likely to replace him if it is the case? Sergio Ramos moved to centre back maybe?

[bennocelt]

A really big loss if he is missing, especially with Pique having injury problems in recent weeks also. Who is likely to replace him if it is the case? Sergio Ramos moved to centre back maybe?


TBH he is getting on at this stage

[DannyInvincible]

Will Spain require a defence against us?

[John83]

Will Spain require a defence against us?
At one or two key moments, sure.

[paul_oshea]

I just bought my 2 kids a Panini Euro 2012 sticker album each, and I'm promising special prizes for whoever gets the most Irish players. Daughter just got an English player and got angry with me when I went boo. Work to be done there I suppose but just after that she got Seamus Coleman. I didn't bother explaining that a dip in form makes him a marginal candidate.

Did you really buy it for them, or be honest stutts, for yourself?

[Charlie Darwin]

I have a feeling we are going to try and blitz Spain in the first 10 minutes before settling into a defensive pattern.

[BonnieShels]

I think that will all depend on the result against Croatia.

[geysir]

I'd say Puyol's aiming to have a chance to be fit for the Finals. We'll see if Del Bosque names him in the provisional squad.

[Stuttgart88]

Did you really buy it for them, or be honest stutts, for yourself?Truth be told it was a bribe to get them to stop fighting each other while their mum was away.

[therock67]

Article I wrote for thefreekick.com (http://www.thefreekick.com). Have to put it in 2 parts here because it's too long for 1 post.

http://www.thefreekick.com/blog/?p=3227

Bluffer's Guide to Croatia

Ireland’s Euro 2012 campaign begins in Poznan with a game that has been described as “must win” but realistically represents a big ask for Trapattoni’s team. The Balkans have a more than decent footballing pedigree and an abundance of creative talent that won’t be overawed by the prospect of trying to unlock Ireland’s organised but underwhelming defence.

The Respected Gaffer

Slaven Bilic is wedded to the familiarity of 4-4-2 (or a 4-1-3-2 as it often appears), to the frustration of some supporters of the national team, but there is little argument with its effectiveness for Croatia. It’s not a particularly defensive variant of the system anyway and Bilic is not fearful of deploying flair where other managers would favour function. That decision is a little easier to make when he has players with the talent of Modric at his disposal, but there aren’t many managers who would persevere with two strikers in any sort of 4-4-2 with Modric in the side.

Bilic only departed from the 4-4-2 setup once during qualifying, and that was for Croatia's 2-0 loss in Greece. Otherwise he has always gone with two strikers and a four man midfield, albeit often organised as more of a diamond than a straight quartet.

The manager is widely expected to leave his job after the tournament, though it's impossible to know if this may have a positive or adverse affect on his team's chances. He has seemed to be on the verge of leaving for a few years now though, he has certainly always appeared "open to offers" so it's unlikely to overly influence the dressing room harmony.

The Slightly Unconvincing Defence

Croatia’s first choice goalkeeper is Stipe Pletikosa, a once more than competent goalkeeper who fell out of favour at Spartak Moscow, sat on the bench at Tottenham for a year and struggled to find first team football until Rostov offered him a deal in the summer. At 33 years of age he’s 3 years younger than Shay Given but has looked past his peak for a couple of years already and remains prone to the odd high profile error.

The backup goalkeepers are likely to be Danijel Subasic (of Ligue 2 Monaco) and Ivan Kelava of Dinamo Zagreb. Unlike David Forde, neither is a household name around Europe, and they only have three caps between them according to Wikipedia.

Croatia’s defensive leader is the experienced Josip Simunic who marries the robust and rugged basics of defending with a gracefulness in possession. He has 93 caps to his name, was once booked three times in the same game by Graham Poll and is integral to a Croatian defence that is blessed more with full backs than centre backs. Following an illustrious (though largely mid-table) career in the Bundesliga he is currently enjoying his first spell in Croatian league football (he is Australian by birth) with the domestically all-conquering Champions League participants Dinamo Zagreb. There have been creaks in Simunic’s armour recently (and he has lost out at club level to his national team understudy - Vida) but since the retirement of Niko Kovac, his experience is increasingly important to a Croatian defence that is in transition from one era to the next.

Simunic’s partner at the heart of the defence is likely to be either Dejan Lovren or Gordon Schildenfeld. Lovren was the man in possession until the play-off win over Turkey but he has had an injury interrupted season with Lyon and the latest Achilles injury may even rule him out of the tournament. He is a promising, rather than established quality, defender who has had problems with on-field discipline but would certainly have been the likely starter if he had managed to complete a regular season. Schildenfeld was Lovren’s replacement in the play-offs against Turkey and has just helped steer Eintracht Frankfurt to promotion to the Bundesliga. Schildenfeld is another physically imposing defender but he’s a latecomer to the international scene with only 10 caps to his name by the age of 27, most of which came in the last 12 months.

The Croatians have two Bundesliga-based full-backs of genuine quality in Vedran Corluka and Danijel Pranjic. The former will play on the right hand side of the Croatian defence, having impressed there for the past number of years, which frees up Srna to play ahead of him in midfield. Pranjic on the left hand side is equally competent going forward but is perhaps not as natural a defender and may hopefully be distracted by the vast wages currently on offer to him from an un-named Chinese team.

Ivan Strinic who plays in Ukraine with Dnipro will battle with Pranjic for the left hand position, and may even get the nod, while Domagoj Vida, another relatively recent Dinamo Zagreb recruit, will cover the two full back positions and could even deputise at centre back in an emergency. The other reshuffle open to Bilic that may be more appealing if Lovren misses out, is to reinstate Srna at right back and allow Corluka to play centre back. Certainly Croatia’s riches in midfield aren’t matched by their defensive options.

The Talented Midfield

It’s that midfield area that elevates Croatia above Ireland and will be the area they, along with Spain and Italy, will be targeting in pursuit of a victory. Bilic, speaking on Newstalk recently, was as complimentary as you might expect about Crotaia’s first opponents in the tournament but he did hint at his optimism by mentioning the amount of ball Slovakia and Russia had against Ireland in recent qualifying games. He was keen to point out that Ireland were more effective with their limited possession than Slovakia but you could almost hear him salivate over the phone at the thoughts of Modric, Rakitic, Perisic et al running at the Irish defence.

Unless the aforementioned injury crisis forces him to right back, Croatia’s captain Darijo Srna will play on the right wing. The Shakhtar Donetsk winger is a terrific player with boundless energy, excellent close control, fine crossing ability, and a wonderful long pass (which he used to breathtaking precision in the Europa League Final in 2009). His energy means he is the springboard for plenty of Croatian counter-attacks and his natural defensive qualities ensure he is as diligent tracking back as he is effective going forward. In other words he is exactly the type of wide midfielder Ireland’s wingers won’t enjoy playing against. Srna enjoys a long working relationship with Corluka behind him, and though Ireland rely heavily on wingers to create scoring opportunities, the chances of Ward and McGeady overpowering this duo on the Irish left flank are disappointingly remote.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KThb9q19gyI

The left flank will likely be occupied by either Ivan Perisic playing as a traditional winger or Ivan Rakitic playing as a more narrow left-sided midfielder. The choice here is a clash of styles, not ability, as both offer real quality from that left flank. Perisic had his breakthrough season in Belgian football in 2010/11 where he netted 22 times for Club Brugge from the wing. He hasn’t quite been able to replicate that in the tougher environment of the Bundesliga but 7 league goals in his first season, where he was a frequent but not indispensable starter, is not a bad return for a winger. Unlike Rakitic, Perisic is a natural winger and facilitates a symmetrical midfield if Bilic opts for orthodox width on both flanks.

Rakitic was deployed as a left-sided midfielder against Turkey in the play-offs and offered a more protective option to the side than Perisic would provide. He is a central midfielder by trade who has matured into an excellent player at Sevilla, following his move from Schalke last season. His versatility may allow Croatia to combat Spain’s midfield trio but that’s less likely to be a concern in the match against Ireland where Whelan and Andrews won’t pose the same threat to Croatia’s midfield pairing.

The decision for Bilic rests on whether to use Rakitic to try and control possession through central areas against Ireland or to opt for balance and a crossing option by picking Perisic as a conventional winger. Either way, while both are excellent players, they’re less likely to be as defensively disciplined as Srna and Duff may enjoy the opportunity of taking on an exposed Pranjic or Strinic.

[... continues in next post...]

[therock67]

[continued from previous post]

http://www.thefreekick.com/board/topic/16149-bluffers-guide-to-croatia/

The central pairing of Vukojevic and Modric are as contrasting and complementary as a nation could wish for. Vukojevic is the defensive midfield fulcrum who provides the stability to allow the likes of Modric, Kranjcar, Rakitic and Perisic to drift forward in support of the strikers. He moved from Dinamo Zagreb to the similarly dynamic Kiev in 2008 and has developed into a pivotal player for club and country since then. While Croatian attacking midfielders seem in abundant supply, Vukojevic is the only really classy defensive midfielder they have available. Backup will be provided by Dujmovic and Leko, one a journeyman, the other a decent player on the wane.


Modric needs little introduction on the international scene having starred in Euro 2008 qualifying and the tournament itself, establishing himself as one of the best attacking midfielders in Europe. Despite his excellent skill level and threat with the ball, Modric doesn’t ignore his defensive duties, a vital quality to play centrally in a 4 man midfield, no matter how defensive-minded his partner might be. He may not be required to showcase these skills against the Whelan-Andrews defensive midfield axis that Ireland present, but he certainly won’t have an issue dropping deeper to pick up possession if he finds the Irish pairing unwilling to move from their trench in front of the back four.


Obviously his real threat is with the ball and while he's an accurate passer (completing 87% of his passes in 2011/12 in the EPL) it's his dribbling in a central area that makes him so dangerous. Croatia play an awful lot of football through Modric and Ireland's chances of success will be greatly influenced by the ability of Whelan and Andrews to get close to him and prevent him linking with his strikers. On the plus side, Glenn Whelan has played 153 minutes against Modric this season, winning one game and drawing the other. On the negative side, Whelan fouled Modric in the penalty area in one of those games, conceding a penalty in the process.


The midfield replacements will likely comprise the more prosaic Dujmovic and Leko, and the more elegant Kranjcar and either Perisic or Rakitic. There are a couple of wildcard options available to Bilic. Sammir - the Brazilian born Dinamo Zagreb midfielder - has made public his desire to pay for Croatia and would certainly offer even more creative midfield talent but his overtures are likely to be rejected. The tournament has also come too soon for Mateo Kovacic, the young Zagreb starlet,


The Options Up Front

Croatia's strong attacking talent continues to their forward line where the established strike partnership of Eduardo and Olic has been threatened by the more recent emergence of Mandzukic and Jelavic. Eduardo has picked up an injury and his participation at the tournament is now in some doubt, though whether he'd make the starting eleven or not is debatable.


The likely strike partnership will be Olic and Mandzukic, with the Wolfsburg striker's impressive end to the Bundesliga season just enough to see off Jelavic's simultaneous impact in England. Mandzukic finished the season with 11 league goals in the German top flight where he struck up an excellent partnership with Patrick Helmes that improved as the season progressed. He offers a bit more breadth to his game than the more prolific (but slightly more one-dimensional) Jelavic and is likely to be rewarded by Bilic for consistent performances over the course of the qualifying campaign.


Mandzukic will be joined at the Volkswagen Arena next season by compatriot Ivica Olic whose effervescent battling style endeared him to supporters of Bayern and the Croatian national team. His impressive workrate compensates for his modest goalscoring tally and he will comfortably see off the threat of Petric and Klasnic, one of whom will probably make the squad anyway.


It's not a strike partnership that promises a glut of goals - their aggregate total of 15 goals in 55 club appearances in 2011/12 looks poor until compared to their even worse combined 20 goal haul in 104 international caps - but it will provide plenty of endeavour and there are more than enough goal threats from midfield to compensate.


Jelavic is certainly likely to play a part from the bench, and depending on progress through the tournament he may earn a start at some stage. He only has two international goals to his name thus far, so he's relatively unproven at this level and therefore unlikely to force his way into Bilic's initial plans, so is unlikely to feature from the start against Ireland.


The Groundless Optimistic Conclusion

In many respects this Croatian team is better equipped to beat Ireland than either Spain or particularly Italy who have both been frustrated by well-organised and disciplined defences in the past. They are unlikely to be surprised or outfoxed by any show of defensive willpower by Ireland and they have almost as much attacking guile as either of the two stronger seeds.


The Irish media have targeted this game as the one to win, and you can already hear Dunphy complaining at half-time about the negative mindset Trapattoni has imposed on this wonderful bunch of expressive Irish players. However there is something wonderfully consistent and stubborn about this current Irish team. They pay no heed to criticism, they won't be adopting a more expansive gameplan simply because they're in a tournament, and they will know that they have inferior players who need to stick rigidly to a shape to have any hope of taking points off more respected nations.


The strength of Srna on Croatia's right flank is a real concern, nullifying one of Ireland's only creative attacking outlets, but there are vulnerabilities in that Croatian defence that Robbie Keane has made a habit of exploiting. If the Irish midfield can look after Modric (and they will be helped by not having to worry about a second midfielder venturing forward) then the match might just come down to a battle between the four strikers and the four centre backs. In that scenario (i.e. completely removing their ridiculously more talented midfield from the equation) the Keane-Dunne axis may just have too much for Simunic and Olic.


Ireland to win by four.

[DannyInvincible]

And the small matters of Spain and Italy?... C'mon, man; pull the finger out!

[DannyInvincible]

In seriousness though, that's super work. Will digest it properly when I get a bit more time.

[BonnieShels]

It's funny I have been saying that the most difficult game to get a result in would be Croatia. But it will be high stakes with no quarter asked or given. I would not be surprised with both teams settling for 0-0 or 1-1.
As I'll be at that game I will settle for anything that doesn't give me heart failure for the last 10 minutes.

[paul_oshea]

Truth be told it was a bribe to get them to stop fighting each other while their mum was away.

Having met your kids, I can't believe thats true...your wife would never leave you solely in charge :)

[paul_oshea]

I'd say Puyol's aiming to have a chance to be fit for the Finals. We'll see if Del Bosque names him in the provisional squad.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/0509/1224315817301.html

[DannyInvincible]

Who can/will play at centre-back in Puyol's place, assuming Pique is fit? Do they have back-up for this position?

[Doire Abu]

Who can/will play at centre-back in Puyol's place, assuming Pique is fit? Do they have back-up for this position?

Mendieta is suggesting that Ramos switches in from right back to center half. That would guarantee Arbeloa as first choice right back. I'd take that, Ramos is a card magnet and Arbeloa is pretty hapless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17990797

[Stuttgart88]

Will there be any clues in tonight's Europa League final?

[French Toasht]

Will there be any clues in tonight's Europa League final?

I am a massive fan of Fernando Llorente and think it would be a travesty (from a Spanish point of view) if he did not make the squad as he gives them a completely different option up front.

[therock67]

Mendieta is suggesting that Ramos switches in from right back to center half. That would guarantee Arbeloa as first choice right back. I'd take that, Ramos is a card magnet and Arbeloa is pretty hapless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17990797

I think Iraola has just as good a chance of starting as Arbeloa does.

[Polster]

Allright men, just putting word out if anyone has or comes across a spare ticket for the Croatia game. I know noone could be expected to know, but anyone an opinion on likelyhood of picking one up over there on the day?

Sound,

Polster

[AlaskaFox]

Croatia squad:
http://greenscene.me/2012/05/slaven-bilic-announces-croatia-euro-2012-squad/

Goalkeepers: Stipe Pletikosa (Rostov), Danijel Subašić (Monaco), Ivan Kelava (Dinamo Zagreb), Goran Blažević (Hajduk Split)
Defenders: Jurica Buljat (Maccaibi Haifa), Domagoj Vida (Dinamo Zagreb), Vedran Ćorluka (Bayer Leverkusen), Josip Šimunić (Dinamo Zagreb), Dejan Lovren (Lyon), Sime Vrsaljko (Dinamo Zagreb), Gordon Schildenfeld (Eintracht Frankfurt), Ivan Strinić (Dnipro), Danijel Pranjić (Bayern Munich)
Midfielders: Dario Srna (Shakhtar), Tomislav Dujmović (Zaragoza), Ognjen Vukojević (Dinamo Kiev), Ivan Rakitić (Sevilla), Luka Modrić (Tottenham), Ivan Perišić (Dortmund), Niko Kranjčar (Tottenham), Milan Badelj (Dinamo Zagreb), Ivo Iličević (Hamburg)
Forwards: Ivica Olić (Bayern Munich), Nikica Jelavić (Everton), Mario Mandžukić (Wolfsburg), Eduardo (Shakhtar), Nikola Kalinić (Dnipro)

[ifk101]

Journeymen the lot of them.