Group C Euro 2012 General Discussion [Archive] - Page 2

Yard of Pace

03/12/2011, 12:26 PM

Do Spain have anyone who'll be able to deal with Jon Walters?
Getting there was the big thing and now I think our lads will be licking their lips at the prospect of facing the likes of Spain and Italy at a major tournament. Can you imagine what it must be like for Cox or Andrews? I think we'll play with a freedom and that'll suit us much better. If a top midfielder could come through that'd be great too but I don't think we'll be embarrassed with Given, Dunne, Keane and Duff. So excited now, the whole thing is just brilliant.

Sullivinho

03/12/2011, 12:42 PM

To be honest bar getting Poland as a top seed it really couldn't have been better.

It was always a toss-up between England/Italy and Croatia/Greece. We've done good.

The only team to really fear and be petrified of in the whole tournament is Germany. Like proper "serial killer" afraid.

Spain or the Dutch could turn up on the day and wipe the floor with us. Us or Croatia to qualify with Spain out of that group. You heard it here first.

My thoughts exactly.

It's a mean competition, we're there, unfancied and fighting for survival from the get-go. I can't wait.

Lionel Ritchie

03/12/2011, 12:57 PM

Look lads, I know we like to put spin on things, but lets be realistic for a minute here.

Spain are European and World Champions. A Spanish side is currently European club Champions. They sweep the boards at club and international level, nobody wants to face them, and even with 3 good teams in this group, they will walk this, probably by winning all 3 games, unless they have a France '02 meltdown, which I think is highly unlikely.

IF Spain walk this group with three wins (9 points), and frankly I don't think they will, it creates the possibility that we could finish in second without even winning a match and with a mere 2 points.

osarusan

03/12/2011, 1:03 PM

I think we'll play with a freedom and that'll suit us much better.
What makes you think this? I can't see us doing anything differently than what got us to the Euros in the first place.

Razors left peg

03/12/2011, 1:06 PM

Its the first time since we've qualified that Ive properly got excited about the Euros, it really hit home during the draw and Im buzzing since. For anyone thats writing us off I would say that everytime we've qualified before was the same. No one gave us a hope against England in 88, same against Italy in 94 and after Roy Keane left the squad in 02 we didnt have a hope either. On all of those occasions we've risen above ourselves and put on a great show. So bring on the world champions!

We actually have a great chance of picking up a win against Italy, we definately wont fear them anyway. Modric could really hurt us for Croatia but we definitely have a chance against them and then anything against Spain is a bonus.

Im glad we didnt get England, not because I would fear them but because the whole build up would be about that game and focus mightnt be right for the other 2, we'll worry about them in the quarter finals

TrapAPony

03/12/2011, 1:11 PM

Im glad we didnt get England, not because I would fear them but because the whole build up would be about that game and focus mightnt be right for the other 2, we'll worry about them in the quarter finals

It's definitely not a certainty that they will get there

legendz

03/12/2011, 1:19 PM

Theres nothing in Group D that particularly scares me for the quarters.

Everyone's saying them across the water have an easy draw but will they get out of the group. France outplayed them in what admittedly was only a friendly last year, Sweden despite an own goal defeat in a recent friendly have a great record against them across the water in competitive games and their last game is against the co-hosts. I think Ukraine will do enough to take a top 2 spot. If them across the water have a win in their first two games, they'll be on the plane home.

Yard of Pace

03/12/2011, 1:36 PM

What makes you think this? I can't see us doing anything differently than what got us to the Euros in the first place.

When I see freedom I mean just slightly more free, tbh! But Trap just needs to figure out how to replicate the Paris performance. Playing the same way as we did in qualifying is simply pointless. We'll be beaten handily by Spain and Italy and perhaps get a point against Croatia. Trap is clever enough to know this (I hope).

Stuttgart88

03/12/2011, 1:40 PM

No realism required on my part - it's a tough draw. That doesn't mean we can't hope to get something out of it though. I think this may be a group that sees a second placed team go through with 4 points and we just about have that in us. We could quite easily get zero points but 4 years ago I'd have bitten your hand off for zero points at a finals.

When I was out running this morning the same thing that YoP said above came into my mind. Jon Walters could prove a real handful for someone, even Spain.

Bungle

03/12/2011, 1:40 PM

I'm optimistic and I think we have a very decent chance of getting out of the group. We have a very wily manager and a very organised and effective team. We don't have anywhere near the talent of 88,90,94 or 2002, but at the same time we have a good squad that I don't think will let us down.

Spain: The best team in the world with players that will be rightly recognised as some of the greats of their era when they retire. They have particular strength in midfield where we are particularly weak. However, they don't exactly hammer teams and they're bound to have a tournament that they disappoint in. It would be fabulous if Real and Barca get to the latter stages of the Champions League as they should, so that some of their players might pick up knocks. They should have too much for us though.
My prediction would be: Spain 2 Ireland 0

Croatia: The type of team that could reach a semi final without breaking sweat. However, they could also implode and fight amongst themselves. They have a magnificent playmaker in Modric and some other very good players. However, I wouldn't fear them.
My prediction: Croatia 1 Ireland 1.

Italy: Italy are very poor compared to their great teams of the past. However, they have the pedigree and tradition that make them a bit like the Germans in 2002. However, for me, this is the game where we are most likely to get 3 points. Ballotelli could be a star, but equally he could be sent off in either our game or be already suspended by the time of the Ireland game. Trap knows them inside out and they already would seem to be without Cassano and Rossi who are very good strikers.
My prediction: Italy 0 Ireland 1

Stuttgart88

03/12/2011, 1:45 PM

When I see freedom I mean just slightly more free, tbh! But Trap just needs to figure out how to replicate the Paris performance. Playing the same way as we did in qualifying is simply pointless. We'll be beaten handily by Spain and Italy and perhaps get a point against Croatia. Trap is clever enough to know this (I hope).I actually reckon that we start games on the front foot, have a great habit of scoring early and it's only then that we go into our shells. That's why we're perceived as being negative.

We beat (an understrength) Italy with a back 5 of Forde, Kelly (McShane), SSL (first game in months), O'Dea and Ward. That can only give us grounds for cautious optimism!

French Toasht

03/12/2011, 2:23 PM

Barring injuries and suspensions, we should be competitive. Of our big players, Given, Dunne, Duff, Keane and McGeady, the only one that is really indispensable and irreplaceable is Dunne. Of the other players, no doubt they would be a big loss, but we do have adequate cover.

geysir

03/12/2011, 2:25 PM

We could perform very respectably and still finish 4th, even lose all 3. It's a tougher group than we had at Euro 88, when there were just 8 teams at the Finals

I suspect that Croatia believe the gap between us and them is much wider than what we think it will be, when the teams line out together in June. Yesterday Bilic let it slip that he thought they were much the better team in the August friendly, but it was the way he said it.

Stuttgart88

03/12/2011, 2:43 PM

That was such a dull game I can barely recall a single incident from it.

geysir

03/12/2011, 2:45 PM

Slaven remembers it.

French Toasht

03/12/2011, 3:13 PM

It has to be said, many of us wanted Greece from pot three. But in fact, Greece finished above Croatia. Greece a team with a similar playing style to ours were able to stifle and beat Croatia, even with Georgios Samaras up front. Let's respect Croatia but not pay them any more respect than they deserve.

Ol� Ol�

03/12/2011, 4:36 PM

Looking at those 3 sides, you can't but think Ireland have been pitted against 3 talented footballing sides. Each side can boast plenty quality, possibly more quality than the Irish squad.

However, I think that's the reason why this group could go any way. Listening to Andrews, he's fully confident that Ireland can get something against Croatia and Italy and is anticipating the Spain game greatly. This epitomises what we can expect from Ireland; fearlessness from a less than world-class player and the old clich�s from Big Jack's tenure are somewhat applicable.

That's why next summer will be so exciting. The pressure upon Spain and Italy will be immense in comparison to what Ireland will experience. And the likes of Walters, Andrews and Dunne will only relish the opportunity to take on Chiellini, Modric and Villa.

That said, a loss to Croatia in the first game out could burst the bubble and spirits facing into a game against a buoyant Spanish side could not be but low. But a similar fate awaits an Italian side who must face Spain first. Should Ireland and Italy lose their first games and Spain win all 3, even one victory per side could (Croatia to beat Ireland, Ireland to beat Italy, Italy to beat Croatia) would make for something great.

Razors left peg

03/12/2011, 5:03 PM

When I was out running this morning the same thing that YoP said above came into my mind. Jon Walters could prove a real handful for someone, even Spain.

Italy really struggled to deal with Caleb Folan if I remember rightly and Walters is just as physical while being a better footballer

Crosby87

03/12/2011, 6:32 PM

What would happen if all 6 games in a group were 1-1 draws?

DannyInvincible

03/12/2011, 6:45 PM

What would happen if all 6 games in a group were 1-1 draws?

Regulations of the UEFA European Football Championship 2010-12 (http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/competitions/euro/91/87/57/918757_download.pdf):

Equality of points after the group matches

8.07 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied, in the order given; to determine the rankings:

a) higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;
b) superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
c) higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
d) superior goal difference in all the group matches;
e) higher number of goals scored in all the group matches;
f) position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system (see Annex I, paragraph 1.2.2);
g) fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
h) drawing of lots.

8.08 If two teams which have the same number of points, the same number of goals scored and conceded play their last group match against each other and are still equal at the end of that match, the ranking of the two teams in question is determined by kicks from the penalty mark (Article 16), provided no other teams
within the group have the same number of points on completion of all group matches. Should more than two teams have the same number of points, the criteria listed under paragraph 8.07 apply.

legendz

03/12/2011, 7:54 PM

DannyInvincible

03/12/2011, 9:35 PM

If all teams finished level on points after all 1-1 draws, should both games go to a penalty shoot-out to provide the two teams? It'd be a bit fairer than drawing of lots. Having penalties if it's just two teams finishing level is a good option though but could it be expanded on the unlikely event it was to happen?

The game would only go to a shoot-out if there are just two teams even on points and goal difference after they've happened to play each other in the third and final round of games in the group. From my reading of that, the result in the last game need not even be a draw as it seems to suggest goals for and against in the game with that particular team on the same points and goal difference aren't decisive. Am I reading that correctly?...

In the case of more than two teams ending even on points and goal difference, lots would only be drawn in the event that they couldn't be separated by seven other ordered criteria including the teams' respective UEFA rankings and number of red and yellow cards they've picked up. It's highly unlikely a group would ever be decided by lots under such circumstances.

ArdeeBhoy

03/12/2011, 9:39 PM

What would happen if all 6 games in a group were 1-1 draws?
The group would be investigated for match-fixing.
:rolleyes:

And it won't happen, IMHO.

geysir

04/12/2011, 12:29 AM

Before penalty shoot outs, did they not use to toss a coin?
I suppose you'd send your best poker player to call the toss.

TrapAPony

04/12/2011, 2:42 AM

http://i41.tinypic.com/4h5j6h.jpg
:D

gastric

04/12/2011, 5:23 AM

http://i41.tinypic.com/4h5j6h.jpg
:D

Love the photo of Joey Lapira!

French Toasht

04/12/2011, 1:27 PM

Off topic for one second, but just out of interest what did people make of the Russian delegations rauchous cheer, when they were drawn into the group with the Poles, Czechs and Greeks? Will they be judged by their opponents as arrogant in a similar way to how John Delaney was vilified when we drew Estonia, or will it be seen as just a natural display of human emotion arising out of the circumstances?

My own opinion, it lacked decorum, yes, but arrogant, no.

Yard of Pace

04/12/2011, 2:12 PM

Would it not have been because of the history between Russia and Poland? As far as I know, most Poles speak some Russian also and I know for a fact that many Poles HATE the Russians. So I presume there's a big rivalry there. Just my take on it. They'd have to be right bone-heads to cheer because it's a handy enough group.

peadar1987

04/12/2011, 2:15 PM

French Toasht

04/12/2011, 2:24 PM

They'd have to be right bone-heads to cheer because it's a handy enough group.

Well that was my take on it. As groups at Euros go, they really couldn't have got an easier group.

The Russians have enemies all amongst the Eastern block countries. Don't think their is any more animosity between them and the Poles as there is between them and the Ukrainians. In fact, all of Western Ukraine are fiercely anti Russia, and was really the subject of the Orange Revolution a few years back.

Crosby87

04/12/2011, 2:26 PM

Irish Reaction.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story/_/id/992169/kevin-palmer:-irish-underdogs?cc=5901 (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story/_/id/992169/kevin-palmer:-irish-underdogs?cc=5901)

French Toasht

27/12/2011, 1:19 PM

Croatian view from Dario Srna

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=1733129.html#srna+live+dream+with+croatia

elroy

28/12/2011, 7:21 PM

Reading between the lines Id say Srna fancies them to beat us.

Charlie Darwin

28/12/2011, 9:51 PM

I'd be surprised if he didn't. I'd expect Richard Dunne fancies us to beat them too.

French Toasht

29/12/2011, 1:03 AM

Reading between the lines Id say Srna fancies them to beat us.

I think all other 15 teams would fancy themselves to beat us. We will be written off as also rans by the rest of Europe before this competition even kicks off and thats something we will relish. I'm loving the fact that we are the lowest ranked team in the tournament, the underdogs tag will suit us down to the ground.

Charlie Darwin

29/12/2011, 1:31 AM

We're ranked ahead of the Czechs.

pineapple stu

29/12/2011, 10:37 AM

And both the hosts.

tricky_colour

29/12/2011, 11:03 PM

Would be embarrassing if we got beat by a team ranked lower than us in the finals wouldn't it?

French Toasht

30/12/2011, 1:26 AM

We're ranked ahead of the Czechs.

Not in terms of the UEFA co-efficient rankings that were used for the draw and the playoffs. We were ranked ahead of the Czechs in the Uefa coefficient until we drew with Estonia and they beat Montenegro. Fifa rankings were of no relevance to the draw.

So going into this draw we were the lowest ranked team in the tournament.

Charlie Darwin

30/12/2011, 1:35 AM

Lower than Poland?

French Toasht

30/12/2011, 1:53 AM

Well for the draw they were seeded. We were the lowest seeded team of the bottom seeds.

The hosts always suffer in terms of rankings and co-efficients due to the fact that they have not played a meaningful game in over 2 years. That said going by the Nov 2009 Fifa rankings (Immediately after the conclusion the WC qualifiers), we were 36th and they were 56th, which is probably the most representative comparison you find between the two countries. Despite this, I still think the bookies would have Poland as favourites if we were to play them in the competition in Poland. I think we would beat them but I'm just talking about the perception from the neutrals of Europe, that I doubt we would enter any game at the tournament with the favourites tag, and that's when we have always performed to our best.

mypost

31/12/2011, 8:12 AM

The hosts always suffer in terms of rankings and co-efficients due to the fact that they have not played a meaningful game in over 2 years.

I doubt we would enter any game at the tournament with the favourites tag, and that's when we have always performed to our best.

How much will Brazil suffer in them before the World Cup?

I would rather be favourites, as it means people recognise the quality you have. We didn't seem to handle it too badly against Estonia.

French Toasht

01/03/2012, 1:13 PM

Good news:

Italy 0-1 USA
Croatia 1-3 Sweden
Mario Balotelli inexplicably left out of Italian squad

Bad News:

Spain 5-0 Venezuala
Fernando Torres left out of Spanish squad

Closed Account

01/03/2012, 4:06 PM

Interesting what lineups our opponents used and played against last night.
http://i.imgur.com/IOf0V.gif (http://i.imgur.com/IOf0V.gif)

Italy and Croatia both lost to a formation similiar to ours if Robbie is indeed playing a little deeper.
All 3 played different formations.

Oh and I'm putting money on Soldado and Spain double if D Villa isn't fit. He scored a hat trick in 38 minutes with a missed penalty in between.

Charlie Darwin

01/03/2012, 5:24 PM

The evidence seems to be that having two strikers means you're certain to lose. And yet we drew! Further proof of Trap's genius.

French Toasht

01/03/2012, 6:16 PM

Watched the Sweden v Croatia match the last night.

Really impressed with Sweden and would be worried about our chances of getting 2nd for the WC qualifiers. Zlatan, as much as I hate to admit it, was brilliant. Played in a new withdrawn role, similar to Robbie Keane, which suits him because his ability to pick a pass is excellent and in Elmander you have a player who will work his socks off all night.

John Guidetti made his debut. Really like the look of this guy. He's on loan from City to Feyenoord and banging in goals. Guidetti is our McLean, they have high hopes here that he'll be called up to the Euros. Anders Svensson (remember him) always amazes me at how well he plays for the national team, despite being 35 and having played for the last 7 seasons in the domestic league with Elfsborg ( a standard not much higher than the SPL).

I know you cant read into friendlies that much but I do think if any outsider will emerge and do Denmark of 92 or a Greece of 2004, then Sweden is a good bet to stick a few quid on. Maybe I'm buying into the hype though. Any thoughts IFK?

Croatia were ok in the first half, solid enough. Second half they were very poor. Get the impression that they weren't very fussed about this match and not much you can take from it really

Stuttgart88

11/04/2012, 11:38 AM

I see the squad is to spend a week at Montecatini, in Tuscany.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/delaney-on-reconnaissance-190160.html

We spent the first week of our honeymoon there 11 years ago. It sounded really nice in the brochure, an old spa town with natural heated springs etc. It turned out to be full of really old people on their last legs looking to be cured of rheumatism!

We went into town for dinner at 8pm one night and it was like a ghost town. We complained to the holiday rep but she said tough luck. The next night we were driving back from rural Tuscany, hit Montecatini at midnight and the place was hopping. I guess we didn't cater for the continental way of enjoying the evenings.

Regardless, we thought it was a bit too boring for us and decided to go down to Amalfi for Part 2 a couple of days early. We checked out of our hotel, the manager of which took offence thinking it must be because we thought his hotel was cr@p. Anyway, on way to the airport my new bride got a migraine so we had to go back to the hotel and ask if we could have our room back. That's what I know of Montecatini!