Slovakia vs. Armenia

[Closed Account 2]

The following Slovak players all picked up yellows too:

Marek Cech (45)
Karim Guede (52)
Stanislav Sestak (73)
Marek Hamsik (75)
Jan Durica (79)
Miroslav Stoch (90)

Stoch and Kucka might well be out as theyve at least picked up one yellow before each.... Also Russia will have Kerzakhov out, they would be better playing with Pogrebnyak given this, but I think they'll start with Pavyluchenko. I think that game will be very hard to call. It would be worth keeping an eye on the Armenia - Macedonia game next time too, as if that's a draw (and we beat Andorra) then I cant see them catching us so hopefully it would take the pressure off our last game at home to Armenia.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Armenia could win the world cup.

A remarkable achievement for a country of only 3 people,
3 million or so surely?

And the hot & cold balls will surely keep them away from the Turks...

[BonnieShels]

Just saw this this result.

Cooooooooooommmmmmeeeeeeee oooooooooooonnnn!!!!!!!!

[CraftyToePoke]

Just saw this this result.

Cooooooooooommmmmmeeeeeeee oooooooooooonnnn!!!!!!!!

I know ! And isnt it amazing how this freak and unexpected scoreline has somehow shifted the Trap perception back toward one of him being a wily old devil who may yet deliver, when in reality he has had a massive chunk of luck tonight, pure and simple, and his Irish team could not really complain too much if they had been done 5-0 tonight, so one sided was the contest and numerous the clear sights of goal Russia spurned.

But we are in there, in the mix, and its in our hands.

[mypost]

Oh people would have complained alright, if that scoreline was reality. Even with the reality of a 0-0 draw, they're still complaining.

[jbyrne]

Oh people would have complained alright, if that scoreline was reality. Even with the reality of a 0-0 draw, they're still complaining.

thats the Irish ok. one text to rte 1 sport last night read "no true irish football fan would want us to qualify as we are rubbish"!.
who are we to turn our noses up at the chance to play in the finals of a tournament because we have alledgedly had some luck and we dont play attractive football?

how our gutsy, determined, committed team gets such a hard time from the irish public is really beyond me. i really hope the stadium has only the 20,000 or so true Irish fans in it for the Armenia match rather than another 30,000 seeking to be entertained and a chance to jump on the qualification bandwagon.

[elroy]

thats the Irish ok. one text to rte 1 sport last night read "no true irish football fan would want us to qualify as we are rubbish"!.
who are we to turn our noses up at the chance to play in the finals of a tournament because we have alledgedly had some luck and we dont play attractive football?

how our gutsy, determined, committed team gets such a hard time from the irish public is really beyond me. i really hope the stadium has only the 20,000 or so true Irish fans in it for the Armenia match rather than another 30,000 seeking to be entertained and a chance to jump on the qualification bandwagon.

What does that lad expect? Us to play like Barcelona!!!

Yes yesterday was extremely lucky and yes we dont play attractive football and yes we all get annoyed about it from time to time. But with the exception of 2002 campaign when we seriously rode our luck as well and had one of the greatest midfielders in the world, we have not been known for playing great football.

Jackie C was hardly employing fantastic tactics, but did most of us care?!?! Not a jot. Its a results business.

Interestingly that the two pundits on the highlights show last night said that even if we qualify Trap should not be offered a new contract.

[Murfinator]

Theres a difference between playing like Barcelona and just playing some sort of competent brand of passing.

Although again I think the problem is less with trap and more with the central midfielders we have available to us. In traps very first game he played Whelan and Steven Reid and we played some smashing possession football in those first few games primarily because Reid knew how to pass a ball. We've been unable to replace him since because the players aren't available.

[jbyrne]

Theres a difference between playing like Barcelona and just playing some sort of competent brand of passing.

Although again I think the problem is less with trap and more with the central midfielders we have available to us. In traps very first game he played Whelan and Steven Reid and we played some smashing possession football in those first few games primarily because Reid knew how to pass a ball. We've been unable to replace him since because the players aren't available.

this is spot on. ctre mid is the big problem for us but our options are limited at best.
this being the case how can people suggest that trap doesnt get his contract renewed no matter what the outcome of this group when he has made the very best of an average group of players?

the likes of sadlier, giles, dunphy etc are in la la land if they think we can qualify trying to play great attractive football.

[IsMiseSean]

the likes of sadlier, giles, dunphy etc are in la la land if they think we can qualify trying to play great attractive football.

Richard Sadlier is a k**b!! Everytime he speaks its like an audition for Dunphy's 'end of the table' chair when he packs it in...
I really cant stand the man

[seanfhear]

Richard Sadlier is a k**b!! Everytime he speaks its like an audition for Dunphy's 'end of the table' chair when he packs it in...
I really cant stand the man

Even Dunphy himself is getting bored with his pantomine spiel. How RTE have persisted with this one trick pony for so long is a mystery. The panel and presenter will have to be embalmed for the world cup qualifying campaign.

[Sullivinho]

Theres a difference between playing like Barcelona and just playing some sort of competent brand of passing.

Although again I think the problem is less with trap and more with the central midfielders we have available to us. In traps very first game he played Whelan and Steven Reid and we played some smashing possession football in those first few games primarily because Reid knew how to pass a ball. We've been unable to replace him since because the players aren't available.

Like jbyrne said, spot on. Greece are often invoked for their 'dour yet (once) successful' qualities but in Zagorakis, Basinas et al they had the competent passers of a ball you mention. Steven Reid types if you like. We're handicapped by the quality of CM's available to us atm. I take no joy in maligning Andrews, Whelan, Green and co. but their performances are symptomatic of limited ability as much as a limited system. There's no doubt a 'grass is greener' element to such regrets, but I can't help wondering how better off we'd be had David Meyler and Steven Reid not been so familiar with injury.


Richard Sadlier is a k**b!! Everytime he speaks its like an audition for Dunphy's 'end of the table' chair when he packs it in...
I really cant stand the man

I can take or leave Sadlier at this point but it took me a while to notice the tone of his speech betrays his default position on just about everything and validates your accusation of aspirations towards the 'Dunphy seat'. He often speaks with a cadence of faux exasperation, as if whatever he's saying makes such brilliant, inarguable sense that he resents having to say it once, never mind repeat himself. Kinda irritating once you notice it.

While I'm bitchin' about the RTE panel, anyone else find Kenny Cunningham's hand gestures and looking around distracting? How about Giles' lean-forward-whilst-adjusting-my-jacket motion? ;)

[IsMiseSean]

While I'm bitchin' about the RTE panel, anyone else find Kenny Cunningham's hand gestures and looking around distracting? How about Giles' lean-forward-whilst-adjusting-my-jacket motion? ;)

Its Kenny's eyebrow movement that annoys me :mad:

[geysir]

While I'm bitchin' about the RTE panel, anyone else find Kenny Cunningham's hand gestures and looking around distracting?
Try watching Kenny's eyebrow at 6x speed.

[mypost]

Yes yesterday was extremely lucky and yes we dont play attractive football and yes we all get annoyed about it from time to time. But with the exception of 2002 campaign when we seriously rode our luck as well and had one of the greatest midfielders in the world, we have not been known for playing great football.

Jackie C was hardly employing fantastic tactics, but did most of us care?!?! Not a jot. Its a results business.

Interestingly that the two pundits on the highlights show last night said that even if we qualify Trap should not be offered a new contract.

If we qualify, he will get, (and have earned) a new contract. Any suggestion otherwise is fantasy land.

We did play good football before. However it was usually naive, and we lost. Away results of any kind were few and far between. Nowadays we are unbeaten away from home for 4 years, we are extremely well organised and disciplined at the back, keeping clean sheets for months, and astonishingly, nutjobs like on the RTE panel want the coach sacked!!

We are a bit weaker in midfield alright, but it hasn't cost us that much. The goal difference remains very healthy. The 4-4-2 system is what Irish players are taught from their first day in the game, and it has brought us success. There's no need to change it while it's working. In Jack's time, we had good midfielders, but Brady got the cold shoulder, McCarthy was famously slow, and Aldo couldn't buy a goal. Instead he was running around after wild goose chases putting people under pressure for 4 years. Our two goals in the Italian WC, came from 2 long punts from the keeper. Did the nation care? It had an fn party watching it.

We're a long way off-topic now, but as it turned out, losing to Russia wouldn't have been a disaster playoff wise, given the Slovakia-Armenia result, and we're in a much better position than both of them going into next month. Trap has taken the team a long way from scraping winners out in San Marino, to the brink of qualification. He wants to be here for the next campaign, and hopefully he will be.

[Real ale Madrid]

We are a bit weaker in midfield alright, but it hasn't cost us that much. The goal difference remains very healthy. The 4-4-2 system is what Irish players are taught from their first day in the game, and it has brought us success. There's no need to change it while it's working. In Jack's time, we had good midfielders, but Brady got the cold shoulder, McCarthy was famously slow, and Aldo couldn't buy a goal. Instead he was running around after wild goose chases putting people under pressure for 4 years. Our two goals in the Italian WC, came from 2 long punts from the keeper. Did the nation care? It had an fn party watching it.

We're a long way off-topic now, but as it turned out, losing to Russia wouldn't have been a disaster playoff wise, given the Slovakia-Armenia result, and we're in a much better position than both of them going into next month. Trap has taken the team a long way from scraping winners out in San Marino, to the brink of qualification. He wants to be here for the next campaign, and hopefully he will be.

I agree we have come a long way with Trappatoni from scraping wins in San Marino, but thats really head in the sand stuff and avoiding the major issue that has arisen from the last 2 games. I think when our midfield gets so overrun like it did on Friday - people are entitled to ask questions like; are we getting the most from the players we have available? One of the big cogs in the defensive structure favoured by Trap is a solid, competitive, combative midfield capable of holding thier own at this level. When we look at the level we were overrun on Tuesday, and the level to which we were inable to create anything at all on Friday night from a central position, - you have to wonder why we persist with the players we have in the middle.

My honest opinion from here on in is that if Trap persists with these two in the midfield we will not be capable of either a) beating Armenia at home and b) even if we scrape into the playoffs we won't have the ability to beat a decent team in the palyoffs, and Trap will fall on his own sword.

Now is the time to make the change, recognise we are fortunate to still be in contention, and seize the opportunity. - get Steven Reid out of retirement and get McCarthy in along side him , now you have 2 midfielders in the Trappatoni mould who are capable of holding onto the ball when we need to attack and have enough experience / quality not to get overrun when we are away from home. Do I think this will happen - no, but he may stick McCarthy in, just in time to save his own skin. If he thinks he can qualify with what we have then we are finished, and he'll lose his job anyway.

[mypost]

Armenia won a game 4-0. Congratulations to them, but they started out this group lower than Macedonia for a reason, and they're a long way from the same ability as Russia.

Russia are a good side, and even with us playing a different formation, would have outplayed us on Tuesday, because that's what they do to everyone in Moscow, even the best teams with the best players in the game. England lost the last time they were there, and duly failed to qualify. He likes Andrews and Whelan in his midfield, and it's got him results. For all their quality, fancy flicks and tricks, Russia had 90 minutes to score and couldn't do it. There's no guarantee other teams will either. The defence is very solid, and the forwards have scored the second highest goal tally in the group. So we're not the finished article, but we're doing ok.

[Real ale Madrid]

So we're not the finished article, but we're doing ok.

I really admire your possitivity, but "doing ok" wont get us to the finals, we need something more.

On the evidence of the last 6 days our midfield is not good enough to get us there. You can dress up the Russia result all you like, but we were destroyed, the fact that Russia didn't score is really no concern to us, what's relevant to us is how we are playing and more imortantly in this case - WHO we are playing, and how thats affecting our ability to qualify.

I admire Trap in a lot of ways, but this is a crack he can only paper over for so long.

[zero]

I really admire your possitivity, but "doing ok" wont get us to the finals, we need something more.

On the evidence of the last 6 days our midfield is not good enough to get us there. You can dress up the Russia result all you like, but we were destroyed, the fact that Russia didn't score is really no concern to us, what's relevant to us is how we are playing and more imortantly in this case - WHO we are playing, and how thats affecting our ability to qualify.

I admire Trap in a lot of ways, but this is a crack he can only paper over for so long.

who are this 'us' you are referring to? keeping a clean sheet and picking up a point was pretty relevant to me.

[Acornvilla]

on another night we could have lost anywhere between 3 to 6-0, would you be saying the same had that happened

[Real ale Madrid]

who are this 'us' you are referring to? keeping a clean sheet and picking up a point was pretty relevant to me.

Read the whole post in context and don't be picking bits out to suit some argument. No one was more delighted than me with the point, believe me, but I'm sure everyone agrees that the result was achieved, in spite of our midfield duo, not because of them, and I'm arguing - if we are to qualify the problem needs to be addressed.

[mypost]

on another night we could have lost anywhere between 3 to 6-0, would you be saying the same had that happened

It wasn't another night, it was Tuesday night, and for all their domination then they couldn't score. Them's the breaks.

[tetsujin1979]

Arsenal go to Old Trafford, play attacking football with a weaker team, compared to the opposition, and get hockeyed, leading to calls for the manager to be sacked.
Ireland go to Russia, play defensive football with a weaker team compared to the opposition, and get a point, leading to calls for the manager to be sacked.
Go figure

[paul_oshea]

They are 2 awful naive ways of looking at things.

9/10 games you would lose that game. We will lose a game like this next time we play with this approach against equal or superior opposition to Russia.

It really is astonishing how people can just brush this aside as though we got a point, luck and swings and roundabouts and forget the whole bigger picture. Its too sad to be laughable.

[mypost]

They're not naive ways, and it's not laughable.

On the contrary, too many whingers are well and truly pised off that we didn't lose and so they couldn't write Trap's obituaries. We are 6 points away from a playoff, and a Slovakia win against Russia, from the finals. That's what counts now, and that is the bigger picture.

[tricky_colour]

The interesting thing is that if Slovakia do beat Russia we go into the last game knowing win will see us topping the group and qualifying.
However if we do not win, ie draw or lose we would finish in 3rd place.

Alternatively if Russia win then I think a draw would be enough to guarantee us a play off place.

All this is based on my analysis of the group so don't take it as gospel as I have been wrong before, or at least not right. :p

So a Slovak win could be a double edged sword.

I do not know if this has been discussed before, perhaps it hasn't because my
analysis is wrong?

[geysir]

Double edged me hole :) you don't look twice at the gift horse of the century.
Lets say, I'd take my chances 100 times out of 100, to stake all on having to beat Armenia to top the group than to go for safety of joining the play-off roulette.
Slovakia beating Russia would be beyond GUBU, beyond eurolotto zillions.

[BonnieShels]

Here's the permutations as they stand going into the next round of games:


On the next matchday (7 October):
Russia will qualify (at least) as best runners-up if:
they defeat Slovakia, AND in Group A:
Turkey do not defeat Germany, OR Azerbaijan defeat Austria, OR Belgium defeat Kazakhstan, OR in Group E: Sweden do not defeat Finland, AND in Group G: Montenegro do not defeat England, AND in Group H:
Portugal do not defeat Iceland, OR Denmark do not defeat Cyprus
Russia will secure a play-off spot if:
they defeat Slovakia, OR Republic of Ireland will secure a play-off spot if they defeat Andorra AND Macedonia defeat Armenia AND Slovakia do not defeat Russia (Presuming Russia avoid defeat against Andorra in their last game)

Republic of Ireland will be unable to win the group if:
they lose to Andorra AND Slovakia do not defeat Russia, OR they draw with Andorra AND Russia defeat Slovakia.

Armenia will be unable to win the group if:
Russia defeat Slovakia, OR Slovakia draw with Russia, OR Armenia

Slovakia will be unable to win the group if:
they lose to Russia, OR Andorra do not defeat Republic of Ireland, OR Armenia defeat Macedonia.

[mypost]

Here's the permutations

:confused::confused::confused:

Lets just keep it simple. We know what we have to do. Don't do it, and we're getting ready to face Germany in 12 months time.

[tricky_colour]

Double edged me hole :) you don't look twice at the gift horse of the century.
Lets say, I'd take my chances 100 times out of 100, to stake all on having to beat Armenia to top the group than to go for safety of joining the play-off roulette.
Slovakia beating Russia would be beyond GUBU, beyond eurolotto zillions.

Well I can certainly see your point, however when you consider Armenia beat Slovakia 4-0 and how we struggled against Slovakia
it would seem impossible for us to beat Armenia!!
The other side of that is we did beat the 1-0. The only 'decent' side we beat!!

Anyway perhaps we should concentrate on beating Andorra first, one step at a time and all that, we can't assume anything in this group.

[BonnieShels]

:confused::confused::confused:

Lets just keep it simple. We know what we have to do. Don't do it, and we're getting ready to face Germany in 12 months time.

We know what we need to do but TC made a point about the double edged sword. I was dealing in permutations.

Forgot to credit that BTW, its from our groups wiki page.

[paul_oshea]

I agree we have come a long way with Trappatoni from scraping wins in San Marino, but thats really head in the sand stuff and avoiding the major issue that has arisen from the last 2 games. I think when our midfield gets so overrun like it did on Friday - people are entitled to ask questions like; are we getting the most from the players we have available? One of the big cogs in the defensive structure favoured by Trap is a solid, competitive, combative midfield capable of holding thier own at this level. When we look at the level we were overrun on Tuesday, and the level to which we were inable to create anything at all on Friday night from a central position, - you have to wonder why we persist with the players we have in the middle.

My honest opinion from here on in is that if Trap persists with these two in the midfield we will not be capable of either a) beating Armenia at home and b) even if we scrape into the playoffs we won't have the ability to beat a decent team in the palyoffs, and Trap will fall on his own sword.

Now is the time to make the change, recognise we are fortunate to still be in contention, and seize the opportunity. - get Steven Reid out of retirement and get McCarthy in along side him , now you have 2 midfielders in the Trappatoni mould who are capable of holding onto the ball when we need to attack and have enough experience / quality not to get overrun when we are away from home. Do I think this will happen - no, but he may stick McCarthy in, just in time to save his own skin. If he thinks he can qualify with what we have then we are finished, and he'll lose his job anyway.

Exactly how I see it Real Ale, but we are in the minority I feel. I think the general soccer public feel this way too, but I wouldn't really pay too much heed to them though.

Mypost, nothing to do with whingers, but you are awful blind to the cold light of day. You ignore the question I asked about you saying slovakia are a good side, and we should be happy with a 1-1 away to them, they get hammered and you shift the goal posts/or ignore completely. Just like you ignored your assessment of rovers scoring 3 goals against copenhagen. I enjoy reading your contribution but when your argument keeps shifting to suit your agenda it gets more difficult to agree with you in any shape or form.

[Supreme feet]

Now is the time to make the change, recognise we are fortunate to still be in contention, and seize the opportunity. - get Steven Reid out of retirement and get McCarthy in along side him , now you have 2 midfielders in the Trappatoni mould who are capable of holding onto the ball when we need to attack and have enough experience / quality not to get overrun when we are away from home. Do I think this will happen - no, but he may stick McCarthy in, just in time to save his own skin. If he thinks he can qualify with what we have then we are finished, and he'll lose his job anyway.

The chances of Steven Reid coming out of retirement are about 5%, if that. He retired from our set up to prolong his club career, and seeing as his major two injuries were either sustained or aggravated while on international duty, it's a sensible choice for him, personally and professionally, to stay away - as disappointing as that may be for us.

Furthermore, he's played mostly at RB for West Brom, and has even said in interviews that he doesn't feel able to 'charge around in midfield' these days. Even being out of the international picture, he has sustained plenty of niggling injuries over the last two years, and coming back wouldn't make any sense for him or his career. It's simply not going to happen.

[paul_oshea]

Ya, but its hardly like our current midfielders do that anyway. At least he would be able get on the ball and hold it up, improve distribution at a minimum. Thats more than either of the other 2 do at present. That said, I don't think he will come back. But limiting the reasons is different to what he might actually offer.

[geysir]

I wasn't so impressed with McCarthy when he did show up to play, maybe he's one for the next campaign. Steven Reid is retired.
I don't like the standard of the current CM, but will chronic moaners please offer some sensible tangible alternatives, instead of this head in the clouds stuff.

[paul_oshea]

I'm sure that is directed towards me, and some others. The thing is I don't think the midfielders are as bad as they are being "played' out to be. I think its a directive.

That said its more of a hope than anything else, that Meyler and Mccarthy have good seasons. If meyler even plays the next 2 months and does well in the premiership I would want him on the bench at the very least for a potential play-off in november. I don't like how some things with Trap have to be a very slow/gradual process, sometimes circumstances dictate these things directly or indirectly. Its the indirectly part I worry about with Trap.

[the bear]

I wasn't so impressed with McCarthy when he did show up to play, maybe he's one for the next campaign. Steven Reid is retired.
I don't like the standard of the current CM, but will chronic moaners please offer some sensible tangible alternatives, instead of this head in the clouds stuff.

fahey should be first choice cm

[OwenGoal]

I'm sure that is directed towards me, and some others. The thing is I don't think the midfielders are as bad as they are being "played' out to be. I think its a directive.

That said its more of a hope than anything else, that Meyler and Mccarthy have good seasons. If meyler even plays the next 2 months and does well in the premiership I would want him on the bench at the very least for a potential play-off in november. I don't like how some things with Trap have to be a very slow/gradual process, sometimes circumstances dictate these things directly or indirectly. Its the indirectly part I worry about with Trap.


That's it. That's exactly what I think. I nominate you for President of Everything.

[mypost]

Mypost, nothing to do with whingers, but you are awful blind to the cold light of day. You ignore the question I asked about you saying slovakia are a good side, and we should be happy with a 1-1 away to them, they get hammered and you shift the goal posts/or ignore completely. Just like you ignored your assessment of rovers scoring 3 goals against copenhagen. I enjoy reading your contribution but when your argument keeps shifting to suit your agenda it gets more difficult to agree with you in any shape or form.

Not blind at all, I just look at the results, and the table. It looks pretty good atm, from an Irish point of view. In 1987, Gary McKay's goal saved Jack's job. A win at home to Armenia will probably save Giovanni's.