Preliminary Draw of the 2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil

[Gather round]

God yeah; Jackie Fullerton didn't half go on about that right through the '90s. I think they beat them twice in qualifying for UEFA '84 though (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1984_qualifying_Group_6). Did they beat them in World Cup qualifying as well at some point?

Think yourself lucky ye missed his wittering in the 80s :o

Yes, we did the double over Germany in Euro 84 qualifying. Since then, the best is a draw away in WC 98 (when they were reigning Euro champions).

Since Euro 84, the Germans have played 95 WC and EC qualifiers, losing only six. Czechia (08), England (02), Turkey (00), Bulgaria (96), Wales (92), Portugal (86).

[pineapple stu]

Did they beat them in World Cup qualifying as well at some point?
Good spot on the North doing the double. Wiki has them recording two World Cup qualifying losses - at home v Portugal in 1986 and of course, England's 5-1 win in Munich in 2002. In the Euros, they lost away to Wales in 1992, away to Bulgaria in 1996, away to Turkey in 2000 and at home to the Czechs in 2008.

They're still going to qualify though. I think Germans get off on that kind of efficiency; it's not mundane at all for them.

[Closed Account 2]

I remember us beating the Germans 2-0 out in Stuttgart before USA94, think these pictures are from that game:

http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/9405001/

Last time we played them in Stuttgart we lost 1-0, they scored with a free kick that deflected off Robbie Keane. We played pretty well (one of the few times we did competitivly under Stan). We drew the return 0-0 in October 2007, but the Germans only really needed to draw that.

[paul_oshea]

Bierhoff thinks we are beatable:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0801/1224301684962.html

[pineapple stu]

With the important line that the fixtures meeting is tentatively scheduled for next month.

[Crosby87]

Germany - lost 3 qualifiers in the last 76 I heard someplace. I'd say they are quaking in their boots facing Whelan and Andrews.

Doesn't really matter what their record has been or what they are thinking tbh. Whelan and Andrews are Irish. Iniesta and Messi are not suddenly showing up to don the Green. Upsets happen in sports all the time. We might as well embrace that.

[OwlsFan]

I remember us beating the Germans 2-0 out in Stuttgart before USA94, think these pictures are from that game:

http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/9405001/

I wonder would anyone purchase the picture showing the back of wur Jack's head :) Thanks for the link. At one stage we were great at getting friendly wins against top opposition away from home. Still waiting for the win away to a 2nd seed or better in a competitive game..

[Junior]

France 1-0...oh it doesnt matter.....

[Kingdom]

Very little difference between us Sweden and Austria. I watched the Austria v Germany game and it was even Stephen stuff. Could have gone either way. I still believe we are the most likely to take points off of Germany. Holland hammered Sweden 4-1. Lets hope we keep improving. That is going to be the key.

the fact that Austria can raise their game to that level (even once off) should be a warning to guard against complacency, Austria was the downfall of the last great era we had, and while this era was expected to be our golden era and didn't quite pan out that way, I'd hate for Austria to be their downfall this time too.


Not sure why you think that. I think it's being realistic. I'd have them as certs to qualify automatically for Euro 2012 as best runner-up throughout all the groups. They've won all their six games so far in that group, bar a loss to Holland in Amsterdam. They beat Finland 5-0 in their last group game in June. Their World Cup qualification record is also much more impressive than ours. They've qualified for nearly four times as many finals as we have; 11 finals to our 3.


Sweden are one of those teams that when you think of having to play them, you're not too bothered, it's only when you actually examine them and their record that you think, "well, actually, that's not so nice after all". Their were much nicer second seeds to draw, the Turks included.


Going by the UEFA coefficient rankings and the FIFA rankings of UEFA teams, our group has the 'hardest' top 3 teams and the second 'hardest' top 2 teams (Group I with Spain/France having the 'toughest' 2 teams in a group). Basically it's just about as tough as it can get. As has been pointed out above, Sweden are currently enjoying some great form. Hopefully some players are soon to retire/drop off and we can nail that playoff spot (or better :)).

I think we drew the short straw in nearly all the pots to be honest. I wouldn't underestimate just how much effort Kerr is going to put in to trying to do us over there and put a spanner in our works over here. I base that on the pure hatred between him and Delaney, the bad feeling between him and some of the players, given how he felt some of them let him down, and purely because as 5th seeds they'd have been praying for someone like Andorra in order to get a few extra co-efficient points to try and consolidate the 5th pot slot.


It must be remembered that only the eight best runners-up throughout all the groups qualify for the play-offs. Even if we do manage second position, that alone won't guarantee a play-off place.

If we're to finish second (either good way or bad way) I think we'll be safe. Group A is a disgustingly tight group - I'm not sure I've seen as bad a group in my time - and I think that will be a record low points winning group, and consequently a low second spot total. Belgium, as fourth seeds (we avoided thankfully - one of a couple of bright spots to the draw) have as much right as the other three to look at winning the group. Englands group as well could have a really low second total. So I think we'll be fine in that regard.


Some people on here will make every team we play against sound like the best team ever, turn average players into Pele (Pandev) or complain about everything Trap does.
I think the real issue will come down to if we make Euro or not. Team will need to regroup quick after Euro if we make it and get focused.
And of course the other conversation is, if we do not make Euro and Trap moves on, who the hell will the manager be? It will be like starting over again. But at least we will know one way or the other in Sept. Is it fair to assume that if we make Euro and Trap retires that Tardelli will be the man and it will offer some continuity?

It's not that people try and make out players or teams are better than they are - it's about evaluating realistically what is before us. You did see the fool that Pele (as you call him above) made of Richie Dunne in the lead up to the Mace goal in Lansdowne yeah? he made him look like Dodi Weir.
Given the draw I think the Euro's are irrelevant in how we'll approach the group. If we make the Euro's as you rightly point out, there more than likely will be continuity with the management team and philosophy, while if we don't we'll have eleven months and probably 7 matches for a new manager to settle on a squad and style.
The retiree's are probably going to be the same regardless if we qualify for Polkraine or not.
What I do think is that had we an easier draw then I'd say where it would have made a difference is the squad mentality in the remainder of this campaign whereby players could be forgiven for thinking that
"yes, if we make the big push against Rus and Slo and qualify, then we head into the WC knowing that we can realistically regard ourselves as joint favs to qualify for Brazil, and emulate the class of 88/90 in going for 2 in-a-row"

[Kingdom]

I can't find any info about whether or not the playoffs will be seeded. I'm sure fifa will adjust things to their liking if need be.

I don't know if anything has been announced, but there's not a hope in hell that FIFA will leave Spain/France or say Portugal to chance and drawing each other in the event that another big seed like Portugal came second. The play-off's will be seeded. Hopefully it will work in our favour this time, if we were to continue to get positive results in the main, home and away, then we should be alright. That's a lot of if's though, accepted.


The draw is ok, I think we can aim for second. Germany are a pain because they are the best 1st seed in terms of grinding out results. By that I mean that even if we were to somehow get 2 draws or a win and a defeat against them, the Germans are very unlikely to slip up against the Swedes, Austrians (they actually just beat them in Vienna a few weeks ago, 2-1 out played at times but like a typical German they still won) and there is no chance the Germans will drop points in Kazakhstan or the Faroe Islands. Müller is also a sensational player, if he was Spanish people on here would be creaming themselves about him - I still think the Germans would have won in Durban if he hadnt been suspended. The Germans are very very slick, in Durban the Australians created a few chances against them but were still punished 4-0. Russia played them in Dortmund in October 2009 and were sensational, hitting the post and bar (Dzagoev ran the show) but the Russians still lost.

I agree re:Germany. I think, and I'm sure they do too, that they could be well placed to take over Spain's mantle in a couple of years time. The ooze class all over the pitch, and to think that Ozil, Keidera, Muller, Schweinsteger et all will have a further 12 months and perhaps be European champs by the time we play them, should be enough to turn even the most positive persons undergarments brown.


I think had we drawn the Spanish or even the Dutch, we might have had a chance of them dropping one or two points against the other teams (as we will invariably do).
Yeah could go along with that.


Sweden really aren't all that good. They are well organised and can be a physical threat. But they have big weaknesses at the back, their best defenders are past it Mellburg (33) Majsterovic and Petter Hanson (both 34), their only reliable defender with a bit of pace is the lad at Genoa Grandquist. In midfield they have a lot of average ball winners, but a lack of creativity. Wilhelmsonn looked like a promising player but has utterly stagnated since he moved to the Middle East, Kallestrom is ok but not massivly creative, he's no Johnas Turn he's a bit of a poor man's Hackan Mild. There is a lot of hype about Albin Ekdal, but he's yet to play for them and he hasnt set the world alight in a very mundane Juventus side. They do have Ibrahimovic upfront and Elmander too, but these are both immobile strikers and if we can cut of the creativity they shouldnt be too much of a handfull, they've no real pace which is a good thing looking at our back line. I'd be more worried about Rosenburg or Markus Burg running at our center backs, but they've faced pacier attackers in the past and shut them out. We should be beating the Swedes at home and aiming for a draw away. They were lucky to get to Euro 2008, getting a 3-0 default in Copenhagen against the Danes after a mad home fan struck the ref, which caused the game to be abandoned. If the Danes had won that they would have finished ahead of Sweden and made it to Euro 2008. Northern Ireland beat the Swedes 2-1 in Windsor Park and drew 1-1 away. In WC2010 qualification they were beaten home and away by the Danes 1-0 home and away, drew 0-0 with Portugal home and away and drew 0-0 in Albania. People are saying their current form (in Euro2012s) good, to an extend that's true, but theyve yet to face their hardest away games (aside from in Holland where they went down 4-1), their remaining games are Hungary away, Finland away, Holland at home and San Marino away, I'll be surprised if they get more than 4-5 points from those.

Thanks for the Swedish insight. It makes me feel a little less worried. What I would point out where I think you're wrong is the reference to the Denmark game where the fan struck the ref. The reason he attacked the ref is that it was the last minute and Sweden had just been awarded a penalty to win the game after Christian Poulsen assaulted one of the Swedes in the box. So there was no chance of Denmark winning that one. And I'd also contend that they'll win all their remaining games, bar Holland.



Do people reckon this group is easier or tougher than our qualification group for Euro 2008, which also featured Germany? Fair enough, we didn't qualify then, but I think that group was tougher, albeit with an extra team. Sweden might be around the same level as the Czechs were then (or are they?), but I don't think Austria are as good as Slovakia would have been. They'd be more on a par with Cyprus (embarrassing 5-2 drubbing aside) or maybe Wales then. Would that be a fair assessment? Six points has to be the aim with Austria if we're to entertain any hope of qualification.

Great question. In my opinion that group was easier. It was the ineptitude on our sideline that undermined us, not the teams we faced. Alan O'Brien ftw!!!
The German team now are far superior. The home game then was a dead rubber.
Sweden and that Czech team are probably on a par, but the Swedes (at present) have a far better individual weapon in Zlatan.
People overrate Slovakia then and overrate Slovakia now. Sure, they've improved, but I That Slovakia team were not as good as they were made out to be and we should have beaten them in Brat just like we should have beaten them in Zilina. It remains to be seen just how good Austria will be, but again they're probably as good a fit for Slovakia 08.


Kazakhstan are ranked lower than the likes of Liechtenstein. They can't really pose a huge deal of threat, can they?

For some reason recently, and perhaps with some merit, arduous trips are faced with skepticism. What's annoying about drawing Kazakh instead of say Luxembourg, is that there's always the chance the trip will either bookend a season, or preceed a trip to Vienna or Stockholm or a similar home game. Plus our players seem to detest the long trips. That's what annoys me about drawing them - the associated problems that they cause.


[QUOTE]Robbie will be 32 by the time the campaign kicks off, which is the same age John Aldridge was at the start of the USA 94 qualifiers, in which he was our top scorer. Also, Dunne will be 33, same age as Paul McGrath at the start of the USA 94 campaign. Both McGrath and Moran (who was 36 when he started away to Denmark) played key roles in that campaign. Also, Kenny Cunningham was 33 at the start of the '06 qualifiers, when he was one of our outstanding players.
Football has changed immeasurably on the club scene since Aldo's day. This obviously has had an effect on int football. I dare say also, that Aldo, McGrath and Kenny (for other reasons) had far more to gain by staying on as int footballers, than Richie, Keano and maybe one or two others have.
I'm convinced we're all going to be in for a shock at the end of this campaign, obviously I hope I'm wrong, but i think there's a change coming.



With the likes of McCarthy, Meyler, Wilson, Clark, Coleman and Cunningham to come through, I think the Irish team will be in better shape in September 2012 than at present.

I agree there totally. There should be no repeat of the fall-out from Anfield 95. If there is it will be unacceptable. If we fail to qualify then changes should be swift and unsympathetic. That goes for the squad as much as the management team. Whatever pans out, the team should be able to hit the ground running in August 2012 regardless of retirees, fallouts or miscellaneous.

[mypost]

People overrate Slovakia then and overrate Slovakia now. Sure, they've improved, but I That Slovakia team were not as good as they were made out to be and we should have beaten them in Brat just like we should have beaten them in Zilina. It remains to be seen just how good Austria will be, but again they're probably as good a fit for Slovakia 08.


Slovakia 3-2 Italy
Russia 0-1 Slovakia

But never mind that, they're "overrated".

[Kingdom]

dont think Sweden or Germany will be too happy about getting us.

To be fair Stu, that's something that shouldn't be underestimated either. We'd have been high enough up the list of third seeds, and given we've been there or thereabouts (ie at least going for a play off) in every group bar one for the past couple of decades, we obviously have our qualities that some teams fear.

[Kingdom]

Slovakia 3-2 Italy
Russia 0-1 Slovakia

But never mind that, they're "overrated".

New Zealand 1-1 Slovakia
Armenia 3-1 slovakia

You don't think retrospectively we should have beaten them in Zilina?
I think the flippant comment is uncalled for. It's not like I don't put a small bit of thought when coming to an opinion.

[paul_oshea]

Sorry kingdom, you come to a conclusion, you form an opinion. That opinion should then come to a conclusion(yours).

Anyway, mypost has the horn for slovakia. Italy were very poor in that world cup. Slovakia are a very average team, and like most average team(s) we give them far too much respect.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Think yourself lucky ye missed his wittering in the 80s.

So did you, mainly. :o
Though there is more than a little irony in that that quote....

[mypost]

New Zealand 1-1 Slovakia
Armenia 3-1 slovakia

You don't think retrospectively we should have beaten them in Zilina?

Ireland 1-2 Norway
Ireland 2-3 Uruguay

We could have won in Zilina, but we could have lost as well. We got the point we needed out of there instead, which sets things up nicely for next month. The problem is people underrate them far too much. That's why Italy lost to them. That's why Russia lost to them. I don't want us losing to them.

[the bear]

i think this is quite a tough group, we can get through it but it will be hard, the rule that the least best 2nd place team doesn't even get a playoff is a bit scary as well. defo a much harder group than our current one. hopefully we qualify for the euros and build on that.

Germany - a very good young team, we will do well to take any points off them, one i wanted to avoid
Sweden - they'll be cursing their luck that they drew us as 3rd seeds, roughly on par with us could go either way
Austria - not the easiest or hardest from pot 4, but if we can't beat them home and away we don't deserve to qualify
Faroes - whatever about the brian kerr thing they're still the bleedin faroes
Kazakhstan - can't say i know anything about them or understand why they are in uefa section, presume they are muck, hopefully anyway

[DannyInvincible]

Kazakhstan - can't say i know anything about them or understand why they are in uefa section, presume they are muck, hopefully anyway

Out of interest, how or why are Kazakhstan in the UEFA section after having spent the first ten or so years of their existence as members of the AFC section? Could Iraq, for example, apply to join UEFA if they wished? I'm wondering what the confederation membership criteria are.

It's been mentioned that they're probably slightly better than their seeding would suggest. They're relatively new to UEFA - they joined in 2002 - and a couple of tough groups for them over the last few campaigns has made it difficult for them to escape the sixth pot. They have beaten Serbia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Andorra in recent years, for example, so obviously not a complete walkover.

Edit: Actually, it seems Kazakhstan only competed in the AFC section between 1998 and 2002. Prior to that, they mustn't have been affiliated with any confederation officially since the country gained independence in 1992.

[jbyrne]

If we make the Euro's as you rightly point out, there more than likely will be continuity with the management team and philosophy, while if we don't we'll have eleven months and probably 7 matches for a new manager to settle on a squad and style.

do people not think that we should sign up trap now for the WC campaign whether we qualify for the euros or not? realistically who else would we get that would guide us through such a tricky group? given the finance Germany being in our group will bring traps salary should not be a stumbling block. if he goes after the euros i really dread the type of candidates that will be thrown into the pot.

[pineapple stu]

Out of interest, how or why are Kazakhstan in the UEFA section after having spent the first ten or so years of their existence as members of the AFC section? Could Iraq, for example, apply to join UEFA if they wished? I'm wondering what the confederation membership criteria are.
I saw it suggested somewhere else that as Kazakhstan - as part of the USSR - were "part" of UEFA, they can still choose to be UEFA now.

Its eastern part overlaps with Azerbaijan's western part - I don't know if part of Kazakhstan is technically in Europe and that was a loophole. Alternatively, there's plenty of oil money out there, and FIFA like money.

Actually, a google search (http://www.sportskeeda.com/2011/07/19/eye-on-kazakhstan-a-nation-dreams-big-in-football/) suggests the second reason - part of the country is technically in Europe.

[boovidge]

Ireland 1-2 Norway
Ireland 2-3 Uruguay

We could have won in Zilina, but we could have lost as well. We got the point we needed out of there instead, which sets things up nicely for next month. The problem is people underrate them far too much. That's why Italy lost to them. That's why Russia lost to them. I don't want us losing to them.

We lost to the WC semi-finalists and Copa America champions 3-2 in a friendly playing our second string side. Hardly the same as losing to Armenia in a competitive game by two clear goals.

[Kingdom]

Ireland 1-2 Norway
Ireland 2-3 Uruguay

We could have won in Zilina, but we could have lost as well. We got the point we needed out of there instead, which sets things up nicely for next month. The problem is people underrate them far too much. That's why Italy lost to them. That's why Russia lost to them. I don't want us losing to them.

I quote two bogey competitive results, to counter your two quoted competitive results, and you throw back two friendly results, one of which we played a second string team against the semi-finalists of the world cup with a 99% squad?
on the team in question...Our missed penalty and missed sitter by Robbie, as opposed to little clear cut chance for them, suggests to me at least, that we should (not could) have won. That's buggar all to do with underrating them. I don't want to lost to them either obviously.

I won't try and debate anymore with you, we're obviously at different ends of the spectrum. Apologies to everyone else for the tangent, and I'll stop regardless now.

[OwlsFan]

France 1-0...oh it doesnt matter.....

I thought the final result was 1-1 but I may be wrong and we qualified for the WC afterall and the Henry goal was just a dream.

It's 1-1 in the record books I am afraid.

[Irwin3]

Isn't it at the discretion of UEFA to let whoever they want in. See Israel.

[pineapple stu]

Isreal was a special case after many of the AFC countries refused to play them (over the whole Palestine thing; Iranian sportspeople are banned from competing against Israelis, for example)

[Kingdom]

do people not think that we should sign up trap now for the WC campaign whether we qualify for the euros or not? realistically who else would we get that would guide us through such a tricky group? given the finance Germany being in our group will bring traps salary should not be a stumbling block. if he goes after the euros i really dread the type of candidates that will be thrown into the pot.

Personally, I wouldn't do anything till the group (and if we're in one) play-off is over. If we don't make the play-off, for me it's bye-bye Trap. If we do make the play-off then you have to take the group on it's merits. If we're in the play-offs by being undefeated in the autumn and losing on the head to head with Russia then that's unfortunate but probably acceptable. Then it depends who we're up against.
If Trap decides he wants to head off into the sunset because they won't offer him a contract at an acceptable stage, then I'd be prepared to let him wander. You'd have to imagine Tardelli would take it if offered to him at that stage - he's not going to get many better offers.


It's hard to know isn't it? I'd assume that if we get to the Eu

[jbyrne]

Personally, I wouldn't do anything till the group (and if we're in one) play-off is over. If we don't make the play-off, for me it's bye-bye Trap.

given where we were in late 2007, the players we have available etc i think trap has turned us into a decent side. anyone else (just look a the names mentioned last time) available to us would be a big step down imo. also, it took trap a while to mould us into the way he wanted us to play and my fear is that a new manager coming will not have the time to do so before the wc qualifiers start. trap is interested so we should not do anything that risks us losing him

[Kingdom]

given where we were in late 2007, the players we have available etc i think trap has turned us into a decent side. anyone else (just look a the names mentioned last time) available to us would be a big step down imo. also, it took trap a while to mould us into the way he wanted us to play and my fear is that a new manager coming will not have the time to do so before the wc qualifiers start. trap is interested so we should not do anything that risks us losing him

First up, yeah I'd agree he's turned us into a decent side - and the previous manager showed that with the wrong guy at the helm how easy it is to fall a few rungs on the ladder.

I think though, maybe your fears are a little ill-founded?

Is Trap going to take any other job before the end of this campaign if its still in the balance? Can't see it myself.

If he does leave at the end of the contract, it will give the FAI pretty much the winter to get a new guy in, and still have 5/6 matches to get a system moulded before the onset of the new campaign

Nor should we be committing ourselves to someone who isn't the right fit, just to placate him - I reckon that's a fair observation. I suppose it's up to each of us to decide at the end of the campaign whether he justifies another campaign. Success would be qualifying for the Euros and would merit another contract. Failure? well there's different types of failure, hopefully we won't be discussing that.

[jbyrne]

I think though, maybe your fears are a little ill-founded?


If he does leave at the end of the contract, it will give the FAI pretty much the winter to get a new guy in, and still have 5/6 matches to get a system moulded before the onset of the new campaign


they had at least as long to get a successor in for kerr and we ended up with stan.
they also had as long to get trap but it took the intervention of an Irish millionaire to lead them down that road and get someone of his quality.
i have no confidence whatsoever in the FAIs ability to replace trap with a manager who could get us through a tricky wc qualifying group. there is nil chance of us getting better than trap i am afraid

[Wolfie]

they had at least as long to get a successor in for kerr and we ended up with stan.
they also had as long to get trap but it took the intervention of an Irish millionaire lead them down that road and get someone of his quality.
i have no confidence whatsoever in the FAIs ability to replace trap with a manager who could get us through a tricky wc qualifying group. there is nil chance of us getting better that trap i am afraid

As many of us have said before, you only have the revisit the "New Ireland Manager" thread to see evidence that of the 40 or 50 names that came and went - noone was serious about taking the job.

I'd agree that we'd do particularly well to better our current managerial situation. Tardelli appears to have a good raport with the players and that shouldn't be overlooked either. Trapp / Tardelli are a good team that's getting a good response from the players.

[Irwin3]

Isreal was a special case after many of the AFC countries refused to play them (over the whole Palestine thing; Iranian sportspeople are banned from competing against Israelis, for example)

Exactly. It's at UEFA's discretion who they let in.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, fools.

Even Armenians admitted me they didn't really 'feel' European.

Though a brave few did enjoy watching The SPL!!!
Make of that what you will.
:rolleyes:

[BonnieShels]

Yeah, fools.

Even Armenians admitted me they didn't really 'feel' European.

Though a brave few did enjoy watching The SPL!!!
Make of that what you will.
:rolleyes:

All those years of being shat on by Turks and Russians really raises one's tolerance levels.

[DannyInvincible]

Isn't it at the discretion of UEFA to let whoever they want in. See Israel.

Just had a look at the UEFA statutes: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/General/01/47/69/97/1476997_DOWNLOAD.pdf

On membership, they say:


Article 5

1. Membership of UEFA is open to national football associations situated in the continent of Europe, based in a country which is recognised by the United Nations as an independent state, and which are responsible for the organisation and implementation of football-related matters in the territory of their country.

2. In exceptional circumstances, a national football association that is situated in another continent may be admitted to membership, provided that it is not a member of the Confederation of that continent, or of any other Confederation, and that FIFA approves its membership of UEFA.

I don't know how exactly UEFA define the boundaries of Europe as that term has differing cultural, geographical and political connotations, but I'm sure Israel were able to offer an argument based on exceptional circumstances regardless. Australia moved from the OFC to the AFC a few years ago; the AFC was most likely deemed the second most suitable confederation for Australia after the OFC, geographically, whilst they pretty much needed a move from the OFC for competitive reasons. It obviously made economic sense for all involved as well.

Mohammed bin Hammam, the president of the AFC, outlined the reasoning:


As well as being a developed football nation, Australia brings a developed economy and this is actually what we want in football. Besides Japan, Korea, China and Saudi Arabia if Australia joins the benefits are huge, this is what we're after.

[DannyInvincible]

Isreal was a special case after many of the AFC countries refused to play them (over the whole Palestine thing; Iranian sportspeople are banned from competing against Israelis, for example)

Does this apply to Iranian footballers? Isn't that third-party interference?

[mypost]

I quote two bogey competitive results, to counter your two quoted competitive results, and you throw back two friendly results, one of which we played a second string team against the semi-finalists of the world cup with a 99% squad?

The results mean little. The point is that they are a dangerous side in a very competitive group, and they mustn't be underrated. Too many have done it lately, and got their ars kicked.


on the team in question...Our missed penalty and missed sitter by Robbie, as opposed to little clear cut chance for them, suggests to me at least, that we should (not could) have won.

We missed a penalty, it happens. Macedonia missed a penalty against us, and some other chances. Did they deserve to win?

I remember us soaking up a lot of pressure in the last half an hour, desperately trying to cling on to what we came for. We did, so job done.

Generally, if you win at home and get good results away, you'll do the job you set out to do. Russia at home apart, we've done it in this group, despite the whinging and moaning from the press and general public.

[Crosby87]

I can't imagine how much fun it would be to go to Brazil and watch Ireland in the WC. It would be awesome. I would definitely come home with as up to that point diseases unknown to modern medicine. If we could only go to one of the next 2 I would sacrifice Ukraine and Poland for that in a heart beat.

[pineapple stu]

Does this apply to Iranian footballers? Isn't that third-party interference?
As far as I know, yep. Here's (http://www.universalsports.com/news-blogs/article/newsid=544754.html) an example of a swimmer pulling out of a heat at the swimming World Championships recently, for example, and here's the retribution from Israel (http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/10484/ronald_lauder_suspend_iran_from_major_sport_events _until_it_ends_boycott_of_israeli_athletes) calling for Iranians to be banned from major sports tournaments until "the regime in Tehran ends its ban on competing with Israeli athletes". It's happened in other sports too. Can't find an example of Israel playing Iran in football, but it probably helps that Israel was kicked out of AFC in 1974 (joining UEFA for the 82 qualifiers).

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's also because of the many flaws of the Israeli state.......

[Crosby87]

Trying to goad people into an argument there Ardee? ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Not at all.

Just think them, Turkey, the Kazaks and Armenia/Azerbaijan should all play in Asia, as you have to draw a line somewhere geographically.
The fact that some of them are flawed :rolleyes: is just incidental.

[DannyInvincible]

As far as I know, yep. Here's (http://www.universalsports.com/news-blogs/article/newsid=544754.html) an example of a swimmer pulling out of a heat at the swimming World Championships recently, for example, and here's the retribution from Israel (http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/10484/ronald_lauder_suspend_iran_from_major_sport_events _until_it_ends_boycott_of_israeli_athletes) calling for Iranians to be banned from major sports tournaments until "the regime in Tehran ends its ban on competing with Israeli athletes". It's happened in other sports too. Can't find an example of Israel playing Iran in football, but it probably helps that Israel was kicked out of AFC in 1974 (joining UEFA for the 82 qualifiers).

That's interesting. Hadn't been aware of that at all. Any idea what happened whilst Israel was an AFC member or maybe fate just never paired the two? Presumably, if Iran were ever drawn against Israel in competition and the Iranian government enforced its ban, that's when FIFA would intervene to suspend the Iranian football federation.

[pineapple stu]

I don't know when the ban came into effect. Might have been in 1979's Islamic Revolution. I'd also have thought that the ban would be in protest at Israel's activities in the Middle East, which in modern times (and here I profess a fair bit of ignorance and could well be wrong) started with the likes of the Six Day War in 1967. So you're possibly talking a fairly narrow window between Israel being in the AFC and the ban being in effect.

[DannyInvincible]

Just doing a bit more reading on the history of the Israel Football Association. They were expelled from the AFC in 1974 under political pressure from the Arab members (although the association, in contrast to other opposing competitors, don't appear to have been the ones breaching any rules; questionable actions of the Israeli state aside), later competed with the OFC and then joined UEFA in 1991. It seems the period around and after 1967 was the cause of much of the hostility towards them within the AFC. A continuation of their membership was impractical and no longer feasible, so I'm guessing FIFA were content to see Israel alone in the wilderness rather than dishing out sanctions on half the members of the AFC.

Israel had joined the AFC in 1956 and Iran seemed content to compete against them up until 1968 at least: http://www.the-afc.com/en/features-and-interviews/31318-bayati-recalls-irans-1968-afc-asian-cup-triumph


In 1968, Bayati was already 37 years old and coach of the Iranian national team. It was a year that remains a landmark for the sport in Iran as Bayati led Team Melli to victory in the AFC Asian Cup on home soil.

That fact that his team had beaten Israel 2-1 in the decisive match in the heart of Tehran – the Amjadie Stadium – made it all the more sweet.

“It was tense,” Bayati told the-afc.com of the match, which was the last for both teams in the round-robin format. “It was not long after the Six Day War and this added more fuel to the fire.

“One night before the match, there was a rumour that a rich Israeli had bought all the tickets so that we would not have any fans. It was very stressful,” added Bayati, one of many legendary coaches being honoured this year by AFC as part of the Asian Coaches Year celebrations.

“So, the government decided to open the gates and allow the people to enter the stadium. They filled every corner and even the running track around the pitch.”

In fact, Iran even played against Isreal as late as September of 1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_national_football_team_results#1970s) as part of the 1974 Asian Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_at_the_1974_Asian_Games). Israel were awarded 2-0 victories against both North Korea and Kuwait, who refused to play against them, during the second group stage of that competition and then played Iran in the final for the last time in their history. Along with Kuwait and North Korea in football, other Arab nations, Pakistan and China refused to compete with Israeli competitors in other sports at the games (http://www.ocasia.org/Game/GameParticular.aspx?GPCode=11). It appears other Arab and Asian football associations followed this lead and Israel soon found themselves banished by the AFC.

I imagine FIFA would have an awful lot of bother on their hands nowadays however were Israel ever to rejoin the AFC or were they to somehow meet the likes of Iran in official competition.

[boovidge]

Israel were awarded 2-0 victories against both North Korea and Kuwait, who refused to play against them, during the second group stage of that competition and then played Iran in the final for the last time in their history.

North Korea taking the moral highground as usual :D

[geysir]

I see Toshack has become the manager of Macedonia who just happen to be in Wales' group.
Could be a trend - hire a manager who has a few axes in his back pocket and itching to use them.

[DannyInvincible]

More importantly, how might it influence Macedonia's remaining fixtures in our current Euro 2012 qualification group? They play Russia in Moscow on the 2nd of September and Slovakia at home in the last round of games.

[zero]

i was hoping they (the macedonians) might do us a favour. not much chance of that now.

[Sullivinho]

More importantly, how might it influence Macedonia's remaining fixtures in our current Euro 2012 qualification group? They play Russia in Moscow on the 2nd of September and Slovakia at home in the last round of games.

I was hoping they'd get someone in who might provoke some early good performances but I'm not sure how inspirational they'll find Toshack. I wouldn't be surprised if they took something off Slovakia at home though, owing more to their home advantage and Slovakia's blowing hot and cold more than the manager.

[Cymro]

If Toshack's Wales is anything to go by, Macedonia will now lose most of their matches by 1 goal despite having 55%+ of the the possession as a matter of routine, whilst never failing to take maximum points from the smaller teams. But Macedonia have better strikers than us, so maybe it'll be different for him there.

Under Toshack we played Slovakia twice with results of 1-5 and 5-2. So anything could happen there.