All-Ireland representative team survey

[BonnieShels]

Players should have the right to declare for whichever they chose as per the good friday agreement

You'll incur the wrath for that.

[dylanisgod]

It wouldn't. All the RoI fans calling for it would expect it to play all its games in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism and inheriting the RoI's past record (all as I explained above). It offers nothing to NI fans and you haven't got the power to enforce it. Nothing but a daydream.


Why do you assume this is what ROI fans want??

If it were to happen, it would have to be equitable - i.e. split home games between Dublin and Belfast. Symbolism/Anthems done the same way as Rugby and Cricket - and new record.

Would you still object on these grounds?

Fair enough if you do, but you keep putting words in the mouths of the pro All-Ireland lobby to suit your own argument. None of us want what you say we want.

[DannyInvincible]

I think a big swing is needed.

You confuse aspirations with realities.

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2010/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html

Anytime you want with that Border Poll.

Out of interest, how do they conduct these polls? I notice the results of another 2010 poll taken as part of the same overall survey (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2010/Political_Attitudes/POLPART2.html) that asked, "Which of these political parties do you feel closest to?", read as follows:


Democratic Unionist Party (DUP): 18%
Sinn Fein: 11%
Ulster Unionist Party (UUP): 16%
Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP): 17%
Alliance Party: 10%
Other Party : 3%
None of these: 21%
Other answer: 2%
Don't know: 2%

Of course, I know it's not the exact same question as straight out asking who one votes or has voted for, but Sinn Féin, for example, took 27% of the vote in the most recent assembly election last month whilst the DUP took 30% of the vote. There doesn't appear to be a huge degree of correlation between the election results and the poll results. Should correlation be expected? Maybe we shouldn't necessarily expect any considering tactical voting can come into play and all that; I don't know.

However, this earlier survey (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2003/Political_Attitudes/VOTENI.html), taken by NILT in 2003, asks the question directly with regard to how people voted in the 2001 Westminster elections and the results don't correlate at all with the actual share of the votes cast (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/rw2001.htm). The DUP, and Sinn Féin especially, tallied a much higher percentage of votes (22.5% and 21.7%, respectively) than the survey suggested they would have had (12% and 8%, respectively). Can such surveys really be trusted then as an accurate reflection or cross-section of the entire community in the north?


In truth I find this board oddly obsessive about soccer in Northern Ireland and make constant comparisons and elusions towards a united team. They're a separate squad, operating in their own league with their own association. They're irrelevant to me, this country and this team.

Naturally, they'll get a bit more attention than other international teams on the board for a few reasons:


No other association and set of fans have been accusing the FAI of "poaching" eligible Irish nationals with sectarian undertones for the past half a decade.
There are quite a few northern-born Ireland fans and Ireland fans with northern links or relations on this board, myself included, who feel very strongly that northern-born Irish nationals should be free to declare for Ireland unimpeded because it could potentially impact directly upon them, those they know or players with whom they identify. Naturally, when the IFA try to hinder this right or NI fans try to cast cynicism on the national identity of nationalists, they'll feel compelled to challenge such views on matters. Many south of the border also feel quite strongly about this.
We faced NI recently in the Carling Nations Cup.
There is a very significant number of players eligible to play for us who also happen to be eligible to play for the IFA. When discussion arises specific to these players, some of it will inevitably base itself around the prospect of them lining out for us and the accompanying hysterical IFA/OWC moaning that now appears obligatory.
There are three or four NI fans on this board who post here quite regularly. Their contributions will have the natural effect of colouring the discussion with their own interests and perspectives. Nothing wrong with that. Bit of variety and debate never did any harm.
An all-Ireland team appears to be a long-held aspiration of many. If such was to be realised, it would have serious implications for the IFA and their team.
Nigel Worthington is one of the most comical figures in modern international football and certainly knows how to go about doing or saying something that'll spark a good discussion; the recent Alex Bruce story and his "North of Ireland" comment being particular gems.


I don't think the board is obsessive when it comes to NI though. There is reason for the NI-related discussion. Other than that they're as relevant or irrelevant as any other team. I don't think people really engage in comparing the two sides a huge deal, do they? It's not like we gauge the strength conveyed by our own rankings or seedings relative to their positions or anything. If people want to talk about issues with nothing to do with NI, there are plenty of other threads that form the vast majority of threads on this forum where mention of them is unlikely to crop up.


Players should have the right to declare for whichever they chose as per the good friday agreement

Well, just on that point... :p

[The Fly]

Out of interest, how do they conduct these polls? I notice the results of another 2010 poll taken as part of the same overall survey (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2010/Political_Attitudes/POLPART2.html) that asked, "Which of these political parties do you feel closest to?", read as follows:



Of course, I know it's not the exact same question as straight out asking who one votes or has voted for, but Sinn Féin, for example, took 27% of the vote in the most recent assembly election last month whilst the DUP took 30% of the vote. There doesn't appear to be a huge degree of correlation between the election results and the poll results. Should correlation be expected? Maybe we shouldn't necessarily expect any considering tactical voting can come into play and all that; I don't know.


It has been noted that a sizeable number of respondents to such polls, hide their true voting intentions in order to appear more moderate to the recorder.

[CraftyToePoke]

i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?

Yes, its where we will eventually end up so we may as well sit down, thrash it out and crack on.

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?

Not without a big adjustment to the notion that the FAI side will simply absorb the IFA side, and then carry on. Even then a decade might be pushing it.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

Yes. And all emerging underage NI internationals should be made aware of their option and how welcome they would be.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?

Yes, it would still leave work to do, but of course the player pool and resources of both properly combined would improve the odds.

And, I would be happy to see the new side 're-branded' for want of a better term, so a kinship was felt toward it by both traditions, and sure why not start in pot six and rebuild it from there, the ascent might just be the bonding session required to seal the deal, even if it took a few campaigns, what matters, we are looking at the next 800 years here ....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Heh, that's far too reasoned given some of the reactionary drivel that's preceded it....

[Gather round]

Why do you assume this is what ROI fans want??

Variously, it's what

a) they tell me, here, there, and pretty much everywhere

b) I infer from their references to the stadia, the symbolism, the succession etc. as I mentioned above

c) many of the dimmer ones seem to associate wth the merging of two mdiocre teams and a massively better one automatically emerging


If it were to happen, it would have to be equitable

Baloney. You (plural if not personally) don't want it to be equitable; we don't want it at all, under any circumstances. It isn't happening.

Do you seriously think RoI fans would look forward to playing games at Windsor, surrounded by thousands of bad-tempered unionists, with God save Big Ears blaring out? Wise up.


Would you still object on these grounds? Fair enough if you do

Er, yes. It is a consistent theme of mine, alas ;)


you keep putting words in the mouths of the pro All-Ireland lobby to suit your own argument. None of us want what you say we want

Ha ha, Do you speak for all of that lobby, or are you just putting words in their mouths?


An all-Ireland team appears to be a long-held aspiration of many. If such was to be realised, it would have serious implications for the IFA and their team

Aye, abolition of the NI team would have a fairly serious implication for the team. No ****, Sherlock.


Yes, its where we will eventually end up

Do you have any actual evidence or argument for this, or just more wishful thinking?

Look, we aren't merging with your footbal team. Go away and stop stirring.


Not without a big adjustment to the notion that the FAI side will simply absorb the IFA side

The notion backed by all the evidence, ye mean?


And all emerging underage NI internationals should be made aware of their option and how welcome they would be

I think they already know how polite and welcoming you are. Of course they'll also know that only 11 places are available in any given football team, and realistically they'll be competing also against players from England, and maybe Scotland.


why not start in pot six and rebuild it from there

Have you been smoking pot six?

[ArdeeBhoy]

See what I mean.
:rolleyes:

[Gather round]

What do you mean?

[ArdeeBhoy]

See the preceding post....
Then say something original?

[Lionel Ritchie]

Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?

We already have one. I think what question 1 is really asking or implying is would you like to see an all-Ireland football association?

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?

Not in the next 10, not in the next 50, not in the event of an all-ireland geo-political entity, not even in the event of a 32 county socialist republican idyll benevolently led by the universally loved grandfather of the nation President Ruari O'Bradaigh. It won't happen.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

Yes, absolutely. though I'm uncomfortable with people being cuckoos eggs in the IFA setup ...no rules being broken but it's just a bit messy.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?

Barely. It could possibly mean gaps created by injuries and withdrawals would be more easily plugged but it would scarcely mean a measurable jump in quality. Anyway, it's an angels on pinheads discussion, it's not going to happen.

[Not Brazil]

Out of interest, how do they conduct these polls?

The "technical notes" on how the survey is conducted should be in the link.

Regarding how people voted at the recent Assembly elections, less that 55% of people eligible to vote bothered their arse to do so.

In the event of a Border Poll, one could expect the percentage voting to increase quite dramatically.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why would we need a 'border poll' for a UI soccer team??

It's not been needed for rugby, cricket, hockey, boxing, golf etc.

[Gather round]

I think what question 1 is really asking or implying is would you like to see an all-Ireland football association?

I think it's really asking 'Do you think there shouldn't be a NI team for its fans to support'? So far on this thread, 12 of 21 RoI fans offering an opinion agree. Even though they already have an effective all-Ireland team to support, which welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond.

Not nice, regardless of whether the dirty dozen and the many who agree with them are daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded.

[BonnieShels]

Why would we need a 'border poll' for a UI soccer team??

It's not been needed for rugby, cricket, hockey, boxing, golf etc.


Simply because none of these associations split. They didn't have the Belfast-centric problems that saw to the FAI being formed.
This aspect if the argument is redundant and drives me bananas Everytime it's mentioned.

[ifk101]

I think it's really asking 'Do you think there shouldn't be a NI team for its fans to support'? So far on this thread, 12 of 21 RoI fans offering an opinion agree. Even though they already have an effective all-Ireland team to support, which welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond.

Not nice, regardless of whether the dirty dozen and the many who agree with them are daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded.

You are getting sloppy with your arguments.

If said dirty dozen "welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond" why would their motivation in joining forces with their nearest neighbours be that of "daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded"?

[Fixer82]

I think it's really asking 'Do you think there shouldn't be a NI team for its fans to support'? So far on this thread, 12 of 21 RoI fans offering an opinion agree. Even though they already have an effective all-Ireland team to support, which welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond.

Not nice, regardless of whether the dirty dozen and the many who agree with them are daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded.

Ha. I love the irony of your posts. Very entertaining.

ULSTER SAYS GATHER-ROUND IS NOT A $HIT STIRRER!!!

[Gather round]

If said dirty dozen "welcomes fans and players from all over Ireland and beyond" why would their motivation in joining forces with their nearest neighbours be that of "daydreamers, bored sh*itstirrers or just deluded"?

Er, because they seem unable to grasp that it's possible to include all and sundry in their own team without having to exclude other fans from supporting a different team?

If your arguments were any sloppier they'd be on the lunch menu at Portlaoise.


Ha. I love the irony of your posts. Very entertaining

My pleasure. But look, here's the deal. I'll stop narking if you stop deluding about abolishing my football team.

[ifk101]

Er, because they seem unable to grasp that it's possible to include all and sundry in their own team without having to exclude other fans from supporting a different team?

But they welcome the creation of a new entity - so called "all Ireland" team. It wouldn't be a continuation of their current "own team".

[Gather round]

But they welcome the creation of a new entity - so called "all Ireland" team. It wouldn't be a continuation of their current "own team"

The same old RoI team playing all its home matches in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism, inheriting the RoI's historical record. Similar to the RU team really, only on a bigger more visible scale. But, as I may have mentioned, even if it lined up in front of a muriel of King Billy's horse, ran out to the strains of Aghalee Heroes and had nothing but oranges at half-time we just aren't interested. Stop stirring.

[Fixer82]

My pleasure. But look, here's the deal. I'll stop narking if you stop deluding about abolishing my football team.

Well I would call it aspirational more than delusional. if it never happens then it's not the end of the World. But I'm certainly not getting angry about it.
And you must remember, it would be abolishing my football team as well.
Instead we would have one team that plays in green from the island of Ireland. (We can even bring back the away Orange jersey to help you acclimatise a little easier ;) )
Compromises would have to be made by both sides, sure, but our similarities far outweigh our differences and that's why I think it makes sense.

[Metrostars]

i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?

No. I used to in the past but I just don't think it would work out. Too much animosity on both sides.

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?

No chance. The blazers on both sides don't want to dilute their perks.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

No. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see the likes of Gibson playing for us. I know about the GF agreement etc but I agree with the Norners somewhat who say it is a jurisdiction issue not necessarily a political issue.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?

No because we're both pretty much shyte.

[CraftyToePoke]

The notion backed by all the evidence, ye mean?

This sentiment intended here was in fact the total opposite of how you have interpreted it, you are so busy and intent on saying No, you dont even understand whats actually being said to you. And in those circumstances, of little value to a debate.

I'm sure you will dismiss this as stirring, or daydreaming, or whatever it is you need to tell yourself.

[The Fly]

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

No. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see the likes of Gibson playing for us. I know about the GF agreement etc but I agree with the Norners somewhat who say it is a jurisdiction issue not necessarily a political issue.


Reading that makes me a little unconfortable.

[Fixer82]

[IMG]
The same old RoI team playing all its home matches in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism, inheriting the RoI's historical record. Similar to the RU team really, only on a bigger more visible scale. But, as I may have mentioned, even if it lined up in front of a muriel of King Billy's horse, ran out to the strains of Aghalee Heroes and had nothing but oranges at half-time we just aren't interested. Stop stirring.

I love Muriels

This one is my favourite

http://www.amanandamouse.com/abbanaticfolder/murielsweddingfolder/muriel.gif

[Gather round]

Well I would call it aspirational more than delusional

No, it's delusional not just if you think the 'merged' team would be much stronger, but also as you seem to think there's any chance of us (NI fans) agreeing to it.


And you must remember, it would be abolishing my football team as well

It wouldn't in practice, as described above. But even if it was, there's a difference between voluntering to dissolve and having it imposed on you.

Stop stirring.

[The Fly]

The same old RoI team playing all its home matches in the RoI, surrounded by RoI symbolism, inheriting the RoI's historical record. Similar to the RU team really, only on a bigger more visible scale. But, as I may have mentioned, even if it lined up in front of a muriel of King Billy's horse, ran out to the strains of Aghalee Heroes and had nothing but oranges at half-time we just aren't interested. Stop stirring.

You mean mural.

[Fixer82]

I'm not talking about anything being imposed on anyone.
If the people and the associations don't want it to happen it won't happen.
If they come to their senses and decide to unite then it will happen.
Nothing will be forced on anyone.
It would hardly make for a healthy association if it were to be operating under force.

[DannyInvincible]

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

No. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see the likes of Gibson playing for us. I know about the GF agreement etc but I agree with the Norners somewhat who say it is a jurisdiction issue not necessarily a political issue.

It isn't a jurisdiction issue though. Where does jurisdiction come into it? It's an issue of national identity which is the foundation of national teams, according to FIFA and most international football fans, I would have thought. When a player possesses a permanent nationality not dependent on residence, he's eligible to play for a particular country irrespective of the jurisdiction within which he was born. It's how the likes of Ciaran Clark or Kevin Kilbane qualify to play for us and it's how the likes of Darron Gibson qualifies to play for us.

[Gather round]

This sentiment intended here was in fact the total opposite of how you have interpreted it

OK, funny boy. Let's go through it again. In answer to the clearly implied question 'Do you think the NI side should be abolished' you said, "Yes, its where we will eventually end up". How exactly else do you suggest I interpret it?


you are so busy and intent on saying No, you dont even understand whats actually being said to you. And in those circumstances, of little value to a debate

Ha ha.I understand what you wrote. If it wasn't what you meant to write, or you now realise it's self-contradicting, say so. We all make mistakes. But ultimately if you don't want to debate with NI fans, don't. No-one's forcing you.


I'm sure you will dismiss this as stirring, or daydreaming, or whatever it is you need to tell yourself

Got it in one, Einstein.

[Wolfie]

c) many of the dimmer ones seem to associate wth the merging of two mdiocre teams and a massively better one automatically emerging



Depends on your definition and parameters of "mediocre". Didn't one of these mediocre teams recently hammer the other mediocre team 5 nil????

On a more serious note, there's far too much animosity to remotely entertain a unified team.

A unified team would have to be a natural reflection of closer Social and Political relations that have yet to happen. For instance, the unification of the German football team was a natural reflection of the political reunification of the country.

We're miles from that yet.

[Gather round]

I'm not talking about anything being imposed on anyone

The one thing that all NI fans will agree on is that they don't want the NI team to cese to exist. If you recognise that, you're on a wind-up; we are quite sensible in wanting to keep our team.

If you don't recognise it, you're deluding yourself.

[The Fly]

Never the twain shall meet lads!

[ifk101]

The one thing that all NI fans will agree on is that they don't want the NI team to cese to exist. If you recognise that, you're on a wind-up; we are quite sensible in wanting to keep our team.

If you don't recognise it, you're deluding yourself.

"All" NI fans?

[Gather round]

Depends on your definition and parameters of "mediocre". Didn't one of these mediocre teams recently hammer the other mediocre team 5 nil????

Now now. Actually I defined it above- both are third ranked/rated by UEFA.


On a more serious note, there's far too much animosity to remotely entertain a unified team

Indeed. It's about as likely as Croatia and Serbia doing so.


"All" NI fans?

By definition, NI fans (that's fans of the NI team, just to be clear) want there to be a NI team. If they want to throw it in with Trap or Seb Coe, fair enough, bye bye. They aren't NI team fans any more.

[Fixer82]

Depends on your definition and parameters of "mediocre". Didn't one of these mediocre teams recently hammer the other mediocre team 5 nil????

On a more serious note, there's far too much animosity to remotely entertain a unified team.

A unified team would have to be a natural reflection of closer Social and Political relations that have yet to happen. For instance, the unification of the German football team was a natural reflection of the political reunification of the country.

We're miles from that yet.

Yep I must agree.
It will happen naturally over the course of time.
Not for a while though.
If someone had mentioned getting rid of the border 20 years ago they would have been laughed at

[ifk101]

By definition, NI fans (that's fans of the NI team, just to be clear) want there to be a NI team. If they want to throw it in with Trap or Seb Coe, fair enough, bye bye. They aren't NI team fans any more.

Including the sentiments of past and present players?

[Gather round]

Of course, as I've said here many times. If they think there shouldn't be an NI team, who cares how many European Cup medals they have?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who has European Cup medals??

[Lionel Ritchie]

I'm not talking about anything being imposed on anyone.
If the people and the associations don't want it to happen it won't happen.
If they come to their senses and decide to unite then it will happen.
Nothing will be forced on anyone.
It would hardly make for a healthy association if it were to be operating under force.

Okay Fixer -let's just say hypothetically that the associations decided to merge (they're the least likely source of impetus for a merger IMO as it's the "turkeys voting for christmas scenario") What happens thereafter? ...again hypothetically? Here's a scenario.

A super-majority of Ireland supporters would be in favour and would go along with the merger as they may think little will change materially. we'll still play in green and the team'll still be called Ireland*. But in all likelihood the only tricolours involved would be the ones supporters bring -though they may have to be confiscated eventually too as they're seen as a source of hassle in the stands ...and soldiers song'd be gone too of course.

Meanwhile 99% of NI support would boycott the new team -this despite the fact that somehow it's been agreed that 50% of home games will be played in Belfast (try getting the FAI to sign up to THAT with the bill for LR hanging round their necks). But they're not going to just boycott it and not attend football anymore -they'd likely amass a large enough body of support to form a new football association -maybe the Northern Irish Football Association (NIFA) or better again the Football Association of Northern Ireland (FANI). They'd then seek FIFA recognition and could end up getting it after a year or two playing challenge matches against Isle of Man, Greenland, etc. That leaves us back where we started -except half our home games are now played in Belfast.

*nomenclature might not be as straightforward as just calling it Ireland. With Delaneys knack for not missing a trick I could envisage it being called something like Aviva Presents TEAM IRELAND.

Look we have our all-Ireland team. The situation we have at present is imperfect but as likely as not as good a result for all concerned as can be expected.

[The Fly]

Who has European Cup medals??

George Best and Martin O'Neill won European Cup medals, and they are the only 'Northern Irish' players to do so.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, but George is dead.
Though credit to him for being more enlightened and less paranoid than others from his community.

[The Fly]

Just by way of contrast, we have had ten such winners:

John O'Shea, Steve Finnan, Denis Irwin, Roy Keane, Mark Lawrenson, Shay Brennan, Tony Dunne, Michael Robinson, Ronnie Whelan, and two for Steve Heighway.

[Sullivinho]

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?

No. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see the likes of Gibson playing for us. I know about the GF agreement etc but I agree with the Norners somewhat who say it is a jurisdiction issue not necessarily a political issue.

Discomfort, Really? Personally, I see the fact that Gibson and co. don't have to dilute their nationality and settle for the representative XI of the gerrymandered jurisdiction they were born in as a cause for celebration. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see 'the likes' of Niall McGinn applying the panacea of a bowed head when required to observe an ode to his own misrepresentation when that iceberg dirges forth, Union Jack flying proudly from it's tip.

The suggestion that jurisdiction supercedes politics is the kind of convenience that sees the individual motivations of the players disregarded in many of the pieces written on the issue, clearing a path for words such as 'poached'. Whenever their motives are given print or recognition, words such as 'honor' and 'country' come to the fore rather than the jurisdictionally-compliant blubs of freshly abducted salmon.

[Gather round]

The situation we have at present is imperfect but as likely as not as good a result for all concerned as can be expected

Good post Lionel, I liked the bit about FANI-ing about.

[Stuttgart88]

Just by way of contrast, we have had ten such winners:

John O'Shea, Steve Finnan, Denis Irwin, Roy Keane, Mark Lawrenson, Shay Brennan, Tony Dunne, Michael Robinson, Ronnie Whelan, and two for Steve Heighway.Just out of interest, did Darren Potter get one in 2005? He was in the winning squad photos afterwards. I suspect not.

We may have been able to add Sheedy, Alridge, Staunton and Houghton to that list. In my opinion the English ban cost Everton a great chance of winning it, and it's hard to think Liverpool wouldn't have had a good stab at it again.

[IsMiseSean]

i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
Yes

ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
Sadly no.

iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
Yes.

iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
Very Slightly

[Sullivinho]

Look we have our all-Ireland team. The situation we have at present is imperfect but as likely as not as good a result for all concerned as can be expected.

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

[The Fly]

Just out of interest, did Darren Potter get one in 2005? He was in the winning squad photos afterwards. I suspect not.


Your suspicion is correct.



We may have been able to add Sheedy, Alridge, Staunton and Houghton to that list. In my opinion the English ban cost Everton a great chance of winning it, and it's hard to think Liverpool wouldn't have had a good stab at it again.

Agreed.

[The Fly]

Discomfort, Really? Personally, I see the fact that Gibson and co. don't have to dilute their nationality and settle for the representative XI of the gerrymandered jurisdiction they were born in as a cause for celebration. It makes me a little uncomfortable to see 'the likes' of Niall McGinn applying the panacea of a bowed head when required to observe an ode to his own misrepresentation when that iceberg dirges forth, Union Jack flying proudly from it's tip.

The suggestion that jurisdiction supercedes politics is the kind of convenience that sees the individual motivations of the players disregarded in many of the pieces written on the issue, clearing a path for words such as 'poached'. Whenever their motives are given print or recognition, words such as 'honor' and 'country' come to the fore rather than the jurisdictionally-compliant blubs of freshly abducted salmon.

Good post Sullivinho.

Your eloquent use of imagery successfully conveyed the central pertinent points; I especially enjoyed the poached salmon reference, and the iceberg metaphor.

I was tempted to deduct a mark for the mispelling of 'honour', but.......I let that pass. ;)

10/10.