Should McCarthy, Walters, Wilson and Gibson be given a future callup or ignored?

[DannyInvincible]

Oh, I forgot Anthony Stokes. I think he was just ignored.

[Murfinator]

I'd heard about the doctor but would still question it, it seems beyond suspicious the same group of players yet again are ruled out. Just waiting for that news on Gibsons groin acting up again.

Not as if it'd be in Traps interest to cause another furore about thse issues if they were suspect when there are more important things to focus on, the paranoid side of me says the "doctor" announcement could be a PR spin. If some of them mysteriously aren't picked for the qualifiers as a result it'd be even more suspicious.

[magicman]

Yeah, I can't believe the extreme lengths McCarthy goes to so he doesn't have to play for us. He must have saw how Coleman was taken out by Villarreal and then organised before kick off to have the same thing happen to him so he wouldn't have to turn up.

Murf, I don't post here often. Very rarely in fact, but I've been reading this site since it was set up but I think your argument is like something you would read in the Independent. Four players mentioned, two were ruled out by the FAI doctors, McCarthy's injury was caught on camera and Gibson is in the squad. Suspicion in a situation like this is rubbish. It's just unlucky for the players involved. McCarthy said the day before he would be there, until he got injured and the two Stoke players turned up to be checked out. What more could you ask of them?

It's a pre season friendly. We've had what? Something like 11 players pull out? It's the same every year at this time. We now know the 3 above are injured. Maybe they'll be fit for the weekend. But if you want to be suspicious about it, how many of the other withdrawls will be fit for the weekend?

[DannyInvincible]

I'd heard about the doctor but would still question it, it seems beyond suspicious the same group of players yet again are ruled out.

Maybe they're just injury-prone?

[Murfinator]

Walters made 46 appearances for Stoke last year, Wilson 37. Having a hard time believing both players who have relatively high fitness have such bad luck when it comes to being fit for international games. Walters in fact has played over 40 games each year for the past 4, thats how high and consistent his fitness levels are.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has the data how many times those two in particular have pulled out of squads, it seems very frequently.

[seanfhear]

If the usual suspects are usually missing squads (all be it some times genuinely injured) they will remain the usual suspects.

The Keyser Sóze's know who they are ! ! !

[SwanVsDalton]

I'd be interested to know if anyone has the data how many times those two in particular have pulled out of squads, it seems very frequently.

I think they've pulled out of the last three. Don't think it's a big deal, they have affirmed commitment, both travelled over to be assessed this week before being sent home. Think Walters' daughter was sick for one squad pull-out and it was well recorded he carrying a lot of niggling injuries towards the end of the season. But was Stoke's cup run and smallish squad, he was pushed into service.

[BonnieShels]

Walters is one who's commitment I couldn't question.

Wilson however...

In fairness though they both travelled. Good enough for me.

[Murfinator]

James starts today for Wigan. 3 days after being injured and unable to play any part, supposedly. Whats the chances on Wilson and Walters playing tomorrow too?

[Charlie Darwin]

Damien Delaney playing for Ipswich too. Clearly these people all hate their country.

[Murfinator]

Shocker, both Wilson and Walters make a miracle recovery to be fit and well enough to start today for Stoke.

[BonnieShels]

I think we can let them away now. But if there's a raft of withdrawals from the squad for Slovakia and Russia then we can accept and make sure they realise they aren't wanted.

[TrapAPony]

Don't see the problem here. They traveled over and were assessed by the FAI medical staff for the Croatia match and weren't deemed fit enough.

[Murfinator]

Trap is obviously fed up of them as well. Right decision.

[paul_oshea]

Hopefully Traps luck works in his favour again.

ALthough he cant be castigated by the media for leaving any of those out, as they are not 1st teamers anyway, he sends out a clear message.

If Ireland win, he is completely vindicated and he sets a precedent, all whilst improving competition and dedication to the cause - or at least should be.

[mark12345]

Hopefully Traps luck works in his favour again.

ALthough he cant be castigated by the media for leaving any of those out, as they are not 1st teamers anyway, he sends out a clear message.

If Ireland win, he is completely vindicated and he sets a precedent, all whilst improving competition and dedication to the cause - or at least should be.

Yeah, and what if they don't?

For my money the whole McCarthy, Walters and Wilson thing has been played out. Ok the trio raised a few eyebrows by not showing up for the end of season games although Walters appears to have done the required thing in contacting those in the FAI/ Trap. McCarthy's story has been played out and Wilson's to a lesser extent.

I thought the whole thing was cleared up and even when they cried off against Croatia they did the right thing as far as making contact, did they not?

If Trap wanted to stoke up the fires again he clearly succeeded by omitting this trio. Maybe Wilson deserved to be cut, but we need both Walters and McCarthy. Trap has come up short by leaving out this pair. And the question which must now be asked (and I'm sure the two boys are asking themselves) is will they play at all in this campaign?

[DannyInvincible]

Didn't Walters and Wilson actually come over for FAI examination before the Croatia game?

And I think McCarthy e-mailed his X-ray through to the FAI, but it appeared inconclusive again:

http://www.wallpaperpimper.com/wallpaper/Art_&_3D/X_Ray/Snake-5-OJSI59MGA6-1024x768.jpg

[Kingdom]

Is it a big do over nothing - yes really.
Had Trap left out three players who have been Ireland XI regulars since he took over? No. He's left out three fellas who realistically were not going to have any involvement against Slovakia, and even less against Russia - regardless of how feted they are by us fans.

As it stands Ward and Kilbane are fit, therefore there's no need for Wilson in the squad.
As it stands Doyle and Long are both able to play the aerial foil to Robbie, with Cox doing the Keane understudy role, so there's no need for Walters in the squad.
McCarthy can have a bone of contention for not being picked in the squad, but when you've found that you can't rely on someone when they're under little or no pressure, how can you believe you'll be able to rely on that same someone for a game that is largely going to decide whether or not you get a new contract? Whelan and Andrews are the incumbents, with Gibson and Fahey relatively decent foils.
It's not the disaster everyone makes it out to be.

The end of the day, if we come a cropper after this series of games, it won't be because James McCarthy or marc Wilson wasn't integrated into this squad - it will be because they weren't integrated into various squads last year.

[Murfinator]

I suppose the only real question to ask is if this trio along with Stokes have been black-listed like Andy Reid or have they simply been omitted because they haven't staked the claim for squad positions that others have? It'll be interesting if there's any squad injuries will any of these guys be called on as replacements.

[Stuttgart88]

I would say it's the latter. Gibson is in after all, and so is Treacy.

We all know by now that Trap's modus operandi is to try players in friendlies first. Ward was on the outside for ages and is now very much on the inside. Cox also passed his test. SSL was a relatively rare example of being fast-tracked into the starting XI, after only one friendly.

Of those omitted I think only Walters has done anything in a friendly, and he'd be my back up for doyle in a heartbeat.

[SwanVsDalton]

The end of the day, if we come a cropper after this series of games, it won't be because James McCarthy or marc Wilson wasn't integrated into this squad - it will be because they weren't integrated into various squads last year.

Totally agree except I'd modify this. If we come a cropper I think it'll be cause of tactics and/or player motivation, because with our current batch we should still have enough to beat Slovakia and take something from Moscow.

[DannyInvincible]

I suppose the only real question to ask is if this trio along with Stokes have been black-listed like Andy Reid or have they simply been omitted because they haven't staked the claim for squad positions that others have? It'll be interesting if there's any squad injuries will any of these guys be called on as replacements.

According to RTÉ, McCarthy is still on stand-by for a senior call-up in case of injury ruling a member of the senior team out.

[Murfinator]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0430/1224315361252.html

Suggestions that a player has requested to pull out due to "personal reasons". What betting the player in question is one of this quartet (probably Walters), resurfacing everything mentioned in this thread.

If the player in question happens to not be Irish born, have a history of low committal and in light of what Ian Harte has been saying its going to produce a very negative backlash from the media which we don't need ahead of the Euros.

[DannyInvincible]

Emmet Malone is merely speculating and may well have misinterpreted Trap's words as Trap's quote doesn't actually refer to anyone having a problem due to personal reasons. According to KK77 in the Euro squad thread (http://foot.ie/threads/165407-Euro-2012-Squad-Discussion?p=1592075&viewfull=1#post1592075), it's Keith Fahey who won't be able to make it, but due to injury rather than personal reasons.

[magicman]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0430/1224315361252.html

Suggestions that a player has requested to pull out due to "personal reasons". What betting the player in question is one of this quartet (probably Walters), resurfacing everything mentioned in this thread.

If the player in question happens to not be Irish born, have a history of low committal and in light of what Ian Harte has been saying its going to produce a very negative backlash from the media which we don't need ahead of the Euros.


Can't for a second believe there would be any sort of a negative backlash. If a player comes out and says, for personal reasons they are not available for (what would be for many of our players) the highlight of their careers, then that, I assume, would be accepted by the media.
I know I will be wrong, but I would hope no journalist would stoop so low as to accuse a player of not wanting to play when said player must have serious issues in not wanting to travel.

Unless a player comes out and says "Nah, I just don't want to go" then I will not say an unkind word, only wish him all the best and hope to see him again.


I may have taken your post up wrong, and if I have I apologize in advance but to me it seems like your looking to create something out of nothing. If that is the case then it is a real shame.
You posted in the Stephen Ireland forum the following regarding personal problems- In addition to the miscarriage if people knew his father and the kind of upbringing he had I think they'd be more understanding as to the kind of insecure individual he's become. It's not appropriate to go into more detail on that on a web forum but it's worth understanding that his childhood and upbringing has affected his rationality as an adult. People assume many things about him based on his eccentricity and inconsistent remarks, most of them wide of the mark.


To then put "personal problems" in quotation marks like it is an excuse when speculating that it could be one if these four players is ridiculous considering you can have no possible idea of what the player in question could be going through.

Again, if you weren't implying that then I again offer my apologies, but that's the way it read to me.

[AlaskaFox]

I heard Stephen Ireland's third granny died.

[Stuttgart88]

Malone's speculation has a hint of Niall Quinn's Testimonial v2 about it, but it's too early to start accusing players of lack of commitment. It might be personal reasons (or might not) and those personal reasons could be anything.

I doubt Magicman is alone in detecting a note of mischievous intent in Murfinator's post. We all suspect that Malone knows something he can't say just yet (good - The Irish Times has done enough damage to our tournament aspirations in the past) but for now we'll have to sit and wait.

[elroy]

We could do w/o this but if someone has genuine personal reasons for pulling out, well you have to accept that.

For all we know, it could be something tragic, like a serious family/spouse illness. Lets wait and see.

[tetsujin1979]

who is McCarthey?

[shakermaker1982]

Let's wait and see.

Probably just guesswork and **** stirring by Malone. If it is a personal reason then it must be serious for a player to want to miss out on the Euro's. I hope they leave it well alone until the Trap/FAI confirms the squad.

[Stuttgart88]

On the squad discussion thread I posted a quote from Delaney saying he is aware of an issue but that it's too early to talk about it. Malone isn't in the business of silly gossip mongering. "Personal issues" could mean anything at all but I have to admit to being intrigued, and at least slightly apprehensive.

[OwlsFan]

I wonder is it McCarthy. He would have been p+ssed off that Green came on instead of him and is 4th (possibly 5th) in line in the pecking order in midfield. He has pulled out of squads before and has had problems with Trap. But if the toothpaste man is being called in the odds are it is a winger.

[DannyInvincible]

I wouldn't have thought McCarthy was an "established" member of the squad and he's no certainty to make the final cut anyway, negating any need for Trap to make an issue out of any potential non-inclusion. What problems has he had with Trap, by the way?

[Murfinator]

How many times can "personal reasons" be accepted from the same player before you start to raise an eyebrow at it. In their very short career the likes of Walters, Best, McCarthy, Wilson etc have had several dubious withdrawals either from minor injuries they've recovered from 3 days later or the dreaded "personal reasons".

If it was one of these players (and I have absolutely no idea whether it is or not) you'd have to wonder if they're regretting their decision to declare for us with so many international incidents that never affect their club career. It is difficult to know what Trap English means as an "established player", it could be just about anyone although I'll assume it isn't Best, Wilson or anyone else outside the squad. He's named McCarthy as a 50/50 before so out of the likely players he was planning to bring it leaves Walters as the top suspect.

You can pretty much narrow down the list by looking through interviews at guys expressing their excitement ahead of the tournament. Duff/Hunt/McGeady/Keane/Cox/Long/Doyle are all accounted for. If it were injury with Fahey he'd say injury, its a very easy explanation. It may be something genuine and nothing to do with the players I've mentioned, merely saying if it is yet another occurrence from a usual suspect questions will be asked.

[theworm2345]

How many times can "personal reasons" be accepted from the same player before you start to raise an eyebrow at it. In their very short career the likes of Walters, Best, McCarthy, Wilson etc have had several dubious withdrawals either from minor injuries they've recovered from 3 days later or the dreaded "personal reasons".
Yeah, they should lie about their grannies dying instead.

[paul_oshea]

If it were one of those murfinator, why would he care about not just saying it straight out and saying its an established player, he seems to have glanced over it as something that the player is still deciding and he understands the players personal reasons. I'm not so sure he would give the same level of respect to some of the other members you speak of.

[AlaskaFox]

Some fine stirring there murfinator.

[Kingdom]

Malone is an honourable fella. If he rubbishes something I'd be inclined to take his word. If he talks something up, then there is something in it.

Also, the issue is directly related to Die Hard's inclusion in the squad so that rules out the majority of the players who are going to be in or around the squad.
I'd go so far as to say that it has to be one of Duff, McGeady, Hunt, Fahey or Coleman.
I reckon I'll be able to either rule in/out one of them this evening.

For personal reasons doesn't either have to mean illness or imminent death to one's kin. It could be a player needing an operation on a long-standing injury and the club putting pressure on the player to have the op over going to the Euro's - particularily if it's a player that could command a fee. That would rule out Duffer, but probably would rule in Fahey, Hunt and Coleman, as all three have carried niggly injuries recently.

[Stuttgart88]

How many times can "personal reasons" be accepted from the same player before you start to raise an eyebrow at it.
Probably not many, but it does depend on who the player is and what the personal reasons are.


merely saying if it is yet another occurrence from a usual suspect questions will be asked.

You're merely stating the bleedin' obvious in other words.

[Stuttgart88]

If it were one of those murfinator, why would he care about not just saying it straight out and saying its an established player, he seems to have glanced over it as something that the player is still deciding and he understands the players personal reasons. I'm not so sure he would give the same level of respect to some of the other members you speak of.That's how I'm reading it too. Who knows? Some seem to be chomping at the bit for a scandal to be breaking or for a UK born player to show a lack of commitment (plausible) whereas it could be something more deserving of some understanding (also plausible).

[Kingdom]

Sorry dunno why I said that.

It's not Fahey, one of Duffer's mob have said he's coshure, so that narrows it down to Hunt or McGeady I'd reckon.

[theworm2345]

Sorry dunno why I said that.

It's not Fahey, one of Duffer's mob have said he's coshure, so that narrows it down to Hunt or McGeady I'd reckon.

:confused:

[DannyInvincible]

Kosher; fit to be used?

[elroy]

Any idea why Gibson wasnt in the Everton squad tonight?

I would be astonished if it was Duff. For that man not to play for Ireland, it would need to be something tragic.

[Irwin3]

Any idea why Gibson wasnt in the Everton squad tonight?

I would be astonished if it was Duff. For that man not to play for Ireland, it would need to be something tragic.

Came off at half-time on Saturday. Commentator said it was a knock. No word on it elsewhere yet.

[Murfinator]

If it were one of those murfinator, why would he care about not just saying it straight out and saying its an established player, he seems to have glanced over it as something that the player is still deciding and he understands the players personal reasons. I'm not so sure he would give the same level of respect to some of the other members you speak of.

I'd assume its a sensitive issue for the FAI and Trap has to watch what he says, it may not have been fully concrete at that stage either.

On the candidates, Hunt was on the premiership a couple of weeks back and spoke of his anticipation for the Euros. You'd imagine the player in question has known about the issue for some time and theres a decision to be made from them. I also wouldn't assume its necessarily a wide player considering Trap is planning to bring 5 strikers with some of them covering wing. He could drop a striker for a wide player and for it to not disrupt his squads balance.
He'd already listed Coleman, Gibson, McCarthy and McClean as guys in his "maybe" pile, I doubt he'd refer to one of those as "established" if they were ruled out, unless its a language mistake. And again if it was Fahey it'd be referred to injury and not a personal issue, I think they'd happily qualify an operation as under the injury umbrella too.
Cox and Long have also given recent interviews of their excitement going to the Euros, Keane took a January move for specific preparation towards it. I haven't heard anything from Doyle but given the kind of guy he is I think thats a real long shot. It leaves only Walters unaccounted for, unless Traps definition of "established" is misleading. Would have slight concern over the column drawing note to McGeady despite later ruling that out and also Colemans season in general which seems to have been very disrupted by something.

[paul_oshea]

Walters was saying he was very tired actually recently. Does he have a sick daughter? Could be down to that alright. Playing 40+ games for stoke this season he might not have got much time to spend with her....could well be walters.

[Two Touch]

Walters was saying he was very tired actually recently. Does he have a sick daughter? Could be down to that alright. Playing 40+ games for stoke this season he might not have got much time to spend with her....could well be walters.

Wasn't Glen Whelan left out of a couple of Stoke's games recently & Tony Pulis mentioned that he needed a rest as he would be representing, not only Rep of Ireland, but also Stoke City at the Euros? No mention by Pulis of Jon Walters representing Stoke in the same competition at the time.

[DannyInvincible]

Walters was saying he was very tired actually recently. Does he have a sick daughter? Could be down to that alright. Playing 40+ games for stoke this season he might not have got much time to spend with her....could well be walters.

His daughter spent most of her early life in hospital and that definitely impacted upon his early career. I think I recall reading somewhere that the primary reason he was prepared to drop down the divisions and join Chester was so that he could take care of her. Not sure how her health is now, but I don't think his commitment to us is in question. Family should be the priority and he's always spoken of his call-ups and time spent in Ireland when growing up with enthusiasm.

[paul_oshea]

exactly and family would be the personal issue here.