Squad to face Norn Iron, Scotland and Macedonia

[SwanVsDalton]

Sorry Kingdom - McShane's in the squad too. :o

Agree with you most of the way, except I'd say Long played well in Slovakia. I'd also say it has to be Hunt to start, because Kilbane is almost certain to play and McGeady will offer zero protection.

[DannyInvincible]

I'd possibly go with Fahey over Andrews who I've always felt to be a bit anaemic. Otherwise, I'd be pretty confident with that as our starting line-up, Kingdom. Ward didn't put a foot wrong against NI, but then it's hard to judge really when the opposition was as poor as they were. I'd give him another go at left back against Scotland and decide who fills the position for Macedonia based on that. Scotland should provide a sterner test. Our defensive back-up isn't all that deep which is obviously a major concern, especially if someone aggravates something or picks up a knock within the next week and a bit.

What was Gibson's last game for United? Was it his blinder against Schalke? I suppose it would have been preferable if Fergie had given him another outing or two to see if he could maintain that level of performance and prove it wasn't just a flash in the pan.

How far down the forward pecking order does everyone reckon Ward is? :p

[Sullivinho]

---------------------------Given------------------------
Foley--------------Josh-------------Ledger------------Kilbane/Ward

-Coleman---------Whelan-----------Andrews----------McGeady

------------------Keane-------------Long--------------------

The kind of impetus Coleman*, McGeady and Long provide, as well as Robbie's record-chasing thirst for goals would form the basis of my confidence in that team getting a result. Macedonia are very ordinary too, albeit home advantage might rev their level a bit. Anyone know if Pandev has blessed them with his presence for this game?

*I think Trap might favor Fahey or put McGeady on the right to accomodate Hunt ahead of Coleman. I'm not sure he has that 'crucial away qualifier' trust in Seamus just yet.

[Kingdom]

[QUOTE]Sorry Kingdom - McShane's in the squad too. :o
La-de-la-de-la, we'll see about that. Security is very lax over in Ringsend garage, nothing a rogue 11A wouldn't sort out....


Agree with you most of the way, except I'd say Long played well in Slovakia. I'd also say it has to be Hunt to start, because Kilbane is almost certain to play and McGeady will offer zero protection.
I remember being underwhelmed by Longy's performance over there - didn't have the same zip he had after the cameo against the Russians - but to be fair to him, he did have the face kicked off him by Durica for 90mins.

Also are you advocating dropping McGeady? Not sure if serious?

[SwanVsDalton]

I'd possibly go with Fahey over Andrews who I've always felt to be a bit anaemic. Otherwise, I'd be pretty confident with that as our starting line-up, Kingdom. Ward didn't put a foot wrong against NI, but then it's hard to judge really when the opposition was as poor as they were. I'd give him another go at left back against Scotland and decide who fills the position for Macedonia based on that. Scotland should provide a sterner test. Our defensive back-up isn't all that deep which is obviously a major concern, especially if someone aggravates something or picks up a knock within the next week and a bit.

I'd be really surprised - gobsmacked actually - if Kilbane was dropped for this game, even despite Ward's performance. Defence will be a bit patchwork and his experience, not to mention decent display last time out, should ensure his presence. Ward's not far down the pecking order mind.

As for Fahey, I think he's behind Gibson for a similar reason - Gibson did OK last time and Trap wouldn't see much reason to change it up. Between him and Andrews in centre mid for me. Andrews can drift in and out, but he tends to be the most physical and tenacious centre mid at our disposal and it'll be needed in Skopje.


Also are you advocating dropping McGeady? Not sure if serious?

Haha no way! Meant McGeady on the right, Hunt on the left and Coleman missing out. As for Long, thought he was quite decent in the first half if I remember though his contribution certainly suffered after he got smashed in the face.

[DannyInvincible]

Anyone know if Pandev has blessed them with his presence for this game?

He was an unused substitute at Inter for their last couple of games of the season, but I'm not aware of any injury concerns or anything. Rumour has it he'll join Napoli this Summer.

[Kingdom]

The kind of impetus Coleman*, McGeady and Long provide, as well as Robbie's record-chasing thirst for goals would form the basis of my confidence in that team getting a result. Macedonia are very ordinary too, albeit home advantage might rev their level a bit. Anyone know if Pandev has blessed them with his presence for this game?

*I think Trap might favor Fahey or put McGeady on the right to accomodate Hunt ahead of Coleman. I'm not sure he has that 'crucial away qualifier' trust in Seamus just yet.

I've a feeling that he will revert to his tried and trusted myself, and Andrews doing well the other night will probably confirm to him that GW & KA are his best options in the middle. I don't get the impression that he totally trusts Fahey, and I know he doesn't trust Coleman. He is a fan of McGeady and I would be astounded if he doesn't start him. It's a toss up between Keith and Hunt for the other slot, although I'd be as happy to have Coleman as I would Hunt. Hunt is the proverbial impact player for me - he causes panic and creates chaos. If we were chasing something in Skopje, I'd be happy to see him being brought on from the bench.

The Scotland game is interesting on so many levels (I jest not!). They are starting to look a tidy side - they like to knock the ball around and while they have a few flawed squad players, they aren't a bad side. How we cope with the 5 man midfield will be interesting, and in particular who gets stuck into Charlie Adam, the kind of technical player we can struggle against.
They're weak at the back and if we get any kind of foothold in midfield I'd fancy Keane, Long, Cox, McGeady and Coleman to go to town on them.

In a way the play-off's are a god-send. Killer won't play against Scotland, which should mean Ward gets another shot - probably up against Steven Morrison - and if he does well again, then he has to be considered against the following week.

[Stuttgart88]

I know the opposition was substantially weakened, but I thought Andrews was really good on Tuesday. Mobile, athletic and putting in tackles. He's what Trap wanted to get out of Paul Green. I think Andrews has a great chance of making Macedonia, at Gibson's expense.

I think this is my team:

-------------Given-------------
AN Other--O'Shea--Ledger--Kilbane
McGeady--Whelan--Andrew--Hunt
-----Keane---Long-----

I'm not sure who I'd pick at RB: Kelly, Coleman and Foley are all candidates, though I think Trap will choose McShane.

If Ledger isn't 100% I think Delaney would complement O'Shea.

Midfield & wide subs are decent: Gibson, Fahey, Lawrence, Treacy, Coleman.

Short of options upfront, but Keane & Long may not need replacing. Cox will get another chance on Sunday. Ward might get a look in as the big guy upfront at some stage.

Not as gloomy as the non-showing fiascos suggest. We need O'Shea and Long to stay fit though.

[Wolfie]

Whilst it may not be strange for a Kerryman to be confident, I find that I'm also in a confident mood about the task ahead in Macedonia.
As I have never ever experienced confidence about getting a victory, before a crucial away game, I don't know whether the jinx will set in because of it.
It's unknown territory.

An uncharacteristic slip up on the lead up to a crucial fixture on your part, Geysir.

I now fear the cruel sporting Gods may reap a terrible revenge for this feeling of confidence.

This will set in train a series of apocalyptic events that will, in time, be traced back to post #100 in the "Sqaud to face Norn Iron, Scotland and Macedonia" thread.

[SwanVsDalton]

I know the opposition was substantially weakened, but I thought Andrews was really good on Tuesday. Mobile, athletic and putting in tackles. He's what Trap wanted to get out of Paul Green. I think Andrews has a great chance of making Macedonia, at Gibson's expense.

I think this is my team:

-------------Given-------------
AN Other--O'Shea--Ledger--Kilbane
McGeady--Whelan--Andrew--Hunt
-----Keane---Long-----

I'm not sure who I'd pick at RB: Kelly, Coleman and Foley are all candidates, though I think Trap will choose McShane.

If Ledger isn't 100% I think Delaney would complement O'Shea.

Midfield & wide subs are decent: Gibson, Fahey, Lawrence, Treacy, Coleman.

Short of options upfront, but Keane & Long may not need replacing. Cox will get another chance on Sunday. Ward might get a look in as the big guy upfront at some stage.

Not as gloomy as the non-showing fiascos suggest. We need O'Shea and Long to stay fit though.

Good team in fairness. Trap will surely go for Foley at RB though? Manager nearly always picks the man in possession of the shirt. And if he chooses McShane I'd have to question everything - not just whether Trap is a decent manager and the direction the side's going, but also whether or not this is real or some kind of horrible nightmare.

[Wolfie]

I
I think this is my team:

-------------Given-------------
AN Other--O'Shea--Ledger--Kilbane
McGeady--Whelan--Andrew--Hunt
-----Keane---Long-----

I'm not sure who I'd pick at RB: Kelly, Coleman and Foley are all candidates, though I think Trap will choose McShane.



I hope Foley gets the nod at RB.

[Sullivinho]

Macedonia having to deal with McGeady, Hunt, Long and Keane all night sounds good to me. The game being played in the evening and out of the heat is a bonus.

[Kingdom]

I know the opposition was substantially weakened, but I thought Andrews was really good on Tuesday. Mobile, athletic and putting in tackles. He's what Trap wanted to get out of Paul Green. I think Andrews has a great chance of making Macedonia, at Gibson's expense.

I think this is my team:

-------------Given-------------
AN Other--O'Shea--Ledger--Kilbane
McGeady--Whelan--Andrew--Hunt
-----Keane---Long-----

I'm not sure who I'd pick at RB: Kelly, Coleman and Foley are all candidates, though I think Trap will choose McShane.

If Ledger isn't 100% I think Delaney would complement O'Shea.

Midfield & wide subs are decent: Gibson, Fahey, Lawrence, Treacy, Coleman.

Short of options upfront, but Keane & Long may not need replacing. Cox will get another chance on Sunday. Ward might get a look in as the big guy upfront at some stage.

Not as gloomy as the non-showing fiascos suggest. We need O'Shea and Long to stay fit though.

Your first point is something that has bugged me from the other night - the weakness of the opposition. We played really really well, and the players all looked comfortable on the ball and knocking it about - but behind it all is the nagging suspicion that it was more to do with them than it was us. However, some of the facets that instigated the good play - harrying (!), tracking back and generally being a nuisance [Cox and Treacy] - aren't dependant on the oppostion, but on our own willingness to give 100% and take the opportunity presented to stake a regular squad/team place. In this respect, the lads did all they could ask, and when they had the ball they generally used it well.
The other thing is that the North had a weakened team, but so did we! Ward, Delaney, Foley, Coleman, Treacy, Cox, have a few caps between them, yet they controlled the game and the tempo. That in itself is impressive.

What i like about Andrews is that he is one of a handful of our players that constantly strive to show how much playing for his country means. Remember the home game against "them"? Diarra upset him, and he was like a man possessed in the return game, without losing the cool, and bossed the game with his partner in crime Whelan. That impressed me, to say publically that you were hurting and wanting a chance for commupence and then following through on it. Satisfying.

He has a few decisions to make Trap; right back, left back and then two of the midfield positions. I'll be both disappointed and surprised if he gives McShane the nod in Macedonia. It's one from Hunt, Fahey, Treacy and Coleman for the wing, and I'd say Hunt will get the nod, given his ability to switch wings with Aiden, something they seem to encourage. That said if either of the Treacy or Coleman got the jersey I'd be happy out also.

It certainly isn't as gloomy as the media would like to portray, but then again, they're never f'in happy.

[gastric]

Trap sweating on O'Shea coming through unscathed on Saturday - as are all of us!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/oshea-pivotal-to-trapattoni-plans-as-st-ledger-ruled-out-2659550.html

[DannyInvincible]

I'm confused. So why was St. Ledger on the bench the other night if he's been suffering from a long-term injury he picked up in March? :confused:

[geysir]

Maybe we just had to have the appearance of having a replacement available on the subs bench.

[SwanVsDalton]

There doesn't seem to any suggestion him or O'Dea are fit but they were both there. As Geysir says, probably appearances sake though maybe both are edging towards fitness? Don't think much has been released about their status.

[Kingdom]

Hmm, getting tighter now. The centre back pairing for Sunday takes on greater emphasis - if he picks the same pairing again, then surely he's considering the two for Macedonia? Would mean no moving Josh from the rb slot.
If he does pick the centre partnership he intends to start with in Skopje, surely he'll pick the centre midfield pairing to start in Skopje too, to get them moving in tandem?

If ever we needed a bit of luck on the injury stakes....

[geysir]

Delaney did well, even if it wasn't a demanding task against NI.
One thing I liked was that he wasn't shy to take control of the defense.

[ifk101]

We didn't need a defence against NI :) but we'll see how Delaney gets on against the Scots.

But imo JoSH has to play in the center. Easily the most experience and accomplished defender in the current squad. I'd partner Kelly with JoSH against Macedonia but it seems O'Dea is favoured by Trapattoni.

[geysir]

I'm lost, I thought O'Dea was out.

[SwanVsDalton]

So did I, with Sledge - but both were on the bench Tuesday. Keeps us guessing anyway.

[lionelhutz]

Is St. Ledger out? If so, I think Trap has to start JOSH at centre half in Macedonia. The question is who to play longside him. I wouldn't have Kelly for three reasons - 1. He's primarily a right back, 2. He was poor at CB against Uruguay and 3. He hasn't played much at all with Fulham.

I'd trust O'Dea or, dare I say it, McShane before Kelly. I think O'Dea deserves another start if St. Ledger is injured as he did well against them at home. I'd like to see him start against Scotland.

Another thing, does anyone else here think O'Shea will start tomorrow? All the possible starting line-ups have Rafael at RB - I'd have thought Fergie would trust O'Shea's experience and calm presence ahead of the sometimes reckless Rafael.

[Charlie Darwin]

St Ledger is out, yeah. I like Kelly but he's a full back - I don't think he's up to international standard in the centre. It's between O'Dea and Delaney for the place beside O'Shea and I think, unless O'Dea is fit and plays on Sunday, it will be Delaney.

I think Fabio is most likely to start at right back in the Champions League game with O'Shea on the bench.

[SwanVsDalton]

The Indo article Gastric posted indicated O'Dea will almost certainly get a chance to prove his fitness on Sunday. Seems if he comes through unharmed he'll probably play.

[geysir]

I suppose if O'Dea proves his fitness, he would be more certain to start ahead of Delaney in the qualifier, as O'Dea has already done good against Macedonia.

[SwanVsDalton]

Bit more on Trap from the Indo. (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trapattoni-pulls-in-horns-as-skopje-comes-into-focus-2659555.html)

Seems a bit more relaxed about players being missing, not quite so animated and able to joke about O'Shea and Long being good on the aul 'SMS'.

Cox's attitude is a real boost. He's the kind of diaspora player some on here have kittens about being in the squad in the first place, and freely admits to not having had much of an Irish influence. But he cancelled holidays and answered the call that other Ireland born players didn't.

Also didn't know newcomers to the squad had to sing Otis Redding - is it always that song or they just have to sing something?

[Sullivinho]

Cox's attitude is a real boost. He's the kind of diaspora player some on here have kittens about being in the squad in the first place, and freely admits to not having had much of an Irish influence. But he cancelled holidays and answered the call that other Ireland born players didn't.

"I'd cancel holidays every year to play."

Yep, seems like a right good sort. Declared early too, I can remember him touting himself for a call-up a couple of years ago. I believe some of his family's Irish branch were at the game vs the North too.

Let the naysayers have all the kittens they want, they'll have to raise them.


Also didn't know newcomers to the squad had to sing Otis Redding - is it always that song or they just have to sing something?

Different song each time I think. Singer's choice probably. :)

[Stuttgart88]

I suppose if O'Dea proves his fitness, he would be more certain to start ahead of Delaney in the qualifier, as O'Dea has already done good against Macedonia.I'm not sure actually. O'Dea was partnering Dunne, who is suspended. My natural inclination would be for Delaney to partner O'Shea. I'm looking at this from a "sum of the parts" angle.

I like Delaney. I think he has always played well for us and he seems a naturally confident & assertive guy.

[geysir]

Trap would call that, 'personality'.

[SwanVsDalton]

From Dan O'Donnell's twitter:

Glenn Whelan set to miss Sundays game. Gone to Stoke for more treatment - still on course for Macedonia.

[Kingdom]

From Dan O'Donnell's twitter:

Glenn Whelan set to miss Sundays game. Gone to Stoke for more treatment - still on course for Macedonia.

This is what I love about a few games together (the tournament feeling) - how will Trap juggle his squad? He has real choices to make all over the pitch:
- left full should almost certainly be Stephen Ward now
- Centre back is almost certain to be Delaney and Kelly again.
- Right back is a concern - if he picks McShane on Sunday, he's likely to start there against Macedonia.
- Centre midfield will be dictated to an extent by right back - if he intends playing Foley in the qualifier, then surely he starts there on Sunday, so that would leave Andrews and Fahey in the centre against Scotland.
- The flanks are less than certain too.

Oh the excitement!

[Stuttgart88]

Foley may keep his place. Andrews and Fahey alternatively?

[Kingdom]

I'm not sure actually. O'Dea was partnering Dunne, who is suspended. My natural inclination would be for Delaney to partner O'Shea. I'm looking at this from a "sum of the parts" angle.

I like Delaney. I think he has always played well for us and he seems a naturally confident & assertive guy.

What I felt about Delaney against the NIron, was that his tackling was wholehearted, committed but at times rash. He was wrapping himself around the centre forward, or lunging in from behind to get the leg in front of the opponent. It was grand against honest and naive players from up above, but against a more cunning typical European forward, it could lead to trouble. That said, he is without doubt a very confident fella, and was eager to play the ball around. I suppose it depends on how confident trap is that we'll be on the front foot in Skopje.

[Kingdom]

Foley may keep his place. Andrews and Fahey alternatively?

By this you mean Foley will stay in the centre and be partnered by andrews and fahey alternatively? Remember Foley got clobbered around the hour mark against the North and had a pack on when he was substituted.
Is Gibson a possibility if he gets back from the CL on the SUnday morning - he's very unlikely to feature. after all, if Whelan is a doubt, Gibson surely starts ahead of Fahey by Trap?

[Stuttgart88]

Carl O'Malley's article doesn't help clarify St. Ledger's situation (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0527/1224297853915.html)

...Giovanni Trapattoni had a number of footballing concerns that were never going to go away.

Chief among them was the dilemma he faces in picking a match-fit defence for the Euro 2012 qualifier against Macedonia in Skopje on June 4th.


That task got a bit trickier yesterday when it was confirmed Seán St Ledger will miss the game with a knee injury, joining Aston Villa defenders Richard Dunne (suspended) and Ciarán Clark (hamstring) on the sidelines.

It leaves Trapattoni without his two first-choice centre backs and four players to fill the gaps, but with Darren O’Dea due to return from injury against Scotland on Sunday and John O’Shea possibly making his return to competitive action against Barcelona tomorrow night in the Champions League final, things are far from ideal. Stephen Kelly is carrying a minor knock but management are confident it will not be a problem.

Despite the withdrawal and a testing week for the manager with regards to the whereabouts of one or two others, he was looking on the bright side yesterday. “We have (Darren) O’Dea, John O’Shea, Kelly and (Damien) Delaney – we have enough at the back. O’Dea is good, that is the good news. He is available and that is important, especially for Macedonia. I hope that John O’Shea finishes the game (against Barcelona) without injury.”

The veteran, of course, may not even play.

O’Dea was fairly solid at centre-back against Macedonia in March.

St Ledger sustained his injury in a training ground clash with Clark, so a look at his fitness in the final Carling Nations Cup game will be crucial.


(Or is he talking about O'Dea?)

[geysir]

but against a more cunning typical European forward,

Very diplomatic way of saying 'cheating diving foreigners'.

[Kingdom]

From that I'd read that if O'Dea is fit on June 4th, he starts, regardless of Delaney and Kelly following up with a good performance against Scotland.

[Kingdom]

Very diplomatic way of saying 'cheating diving foreigners'.

A humble, diplomatic, good-looking, non-cousin bred Kerryman. One of a kind.

[ifk101]

(Or is he talking about O'Dea?)

the doc is out injured for the games against Scotland and Macedonia. The injury is has is from a clash with Clark back in March.

O'Dea is okay and should take some part in the game against Scotland.

[SwanVsDalton]

(Or is he talking about O'Dea?)

Looks like the writer wrote the piece and then had to amend the top pars after the news broke about Sledge but forgot to edit the rest.

[the doc]

I wouldn't believe what you read in the papers! ;)

[Stuttgart88]

Kingdom, I meant that Foley could retain his place in CM alongside Andrews. As an alternative Fahey could play with Andrews.

Gibson would come into contention against Macedonia.

I think Foley, Fahey and Andrews would all have something to play for against Scotland. A good showing could easily put them into the Macedonia team. Andrews especially.

[geysir]

That's part of our problem, we still have too many possibles and not enough probables for quite a few positions.

[ifk101]

I wouldn't believe what you read in the papers! ;)

So what's the situation with your injury? :rolleyes:

[Sullivinho]

I'm fairly sure Kingdom is Ciaran Clark so this would be the perfect opportunity for these lads to settle their differences. The doc seems like the forgiving type.

[Kingdom]

There's no settling to be done. The Doc is gonna languish in either the fizzy league or get rejected by Boro again, while I, er Clark (yes that'll do) will be riding high with Mr Benitez in the Premier League. He likes a bit of versatility and tends to have a fairly flexible policy on selection so I, er Ciaran, should be sorted for a few games next season.

Huzzah!

[Sullivinho]

That's cold Ciaran, very cold. But I can appreciate the Keane-like ruthlessness in adding insult to injury.

Incidentally, my keen detective sense has also identified DannyInvincible as none other than Daniel Kearns. The air of personal victory in his dissection of the CAS ruling was both palpable and telling, triumphalism buried in every torrent of hard fact. The sense of invunerability in his chosen moniker typical of one who has single-handedly defeated an entire association of people.

I'm working on the tentative hypothesis that Paul O'Shea is the mighty Black Pearl himself but have yet to fully join the dots.

[SwanVsDalton]

There's no settling to be done. The Doc is gonna languish in either the fizzy league or get rejected by Boro again, while I, er Clark (yes that'll do) will be riding high with Mr Benitez in the Premier League. He likes a bit of versatility and tends to have a fairly flexible policy on selection so I, er Ciaran, should be sorted for a few games next season.

Huzzah!

Houllier? Or is that one serious in-the-know tip?!

[Kingdom]

Kingdom, I meant that Foley could retain his place in CM alongside Andrews. As an alternative Fahey could play with Andrews.

Gibson would come into contention against Macedonia.

I think Foley, Fahey and Andrews would all have something to play for against Scotland. A good showing could easily put them into the Macedonia team. Andrews especially.

To be honest, I cannot see him failing to pick Andrews now. He knows him, trusts him, and provided he's fit surely will go with him. If Whelan is fit, he's a cert also, and same with McGeady, so really it's a toss up between any of Coleman, Lawrence, Fahey, Hunt and Treacy for the remaining position, be it the left or right of midfield.

As farneyman says, it's a problem.