Will Keane F Preston North End b.1993

[third policeman]

Assume he means the next option to replace Robinson.

Got to confess I wondered why on earth we bothered chasing Keane as his career has been a series of false starts, set backs and disappointments, but his form this season has been pretty impressive and we’re not exactly blessed with striking talent. If he can reproduce this form in the championship he’ll begin to look like a credible option.

[SkStu]

Assume he means the next option to replace Robinson.

Me too but I don’t see them as like for like in Kenny’s starting formation. Under Kenny, Robinson plays more like a 10, roaming around that final third while I see Keane more as a 9 (I might be wrong on that though, not having seen anything other than highlights of his Wigan games).

[JR89]

Got to confess I wondered why on earth we bothered chasing Keane as his career has been a series of false starts, set backs and disappointments, but his form this season has been pretty impressive and we’re not exactly blessed with striking talent. If he can reproduce this form in the championship he’ll begin to look like a credible option.

McGoldrick retiring really left us without that experienced forward who could link up play and possibly make things happen. Played one game under Kenny I think it was and was the main guy behind our two best chances in the second half imo.

The Alan Browne chance where he held up the ball till more support arrived and layed it off for Stevens to push forward and pick out Browne. Then the Hourihane chance were he pussy footed the ball towards goal. McGoldrick dropped for the ball, pushed forward, and picked out Robinson's run.

If Keane can help out and take some of the pressure off Idah to be that replacement for McGoldrick then he'll be worth bringing in.

[JR89]

Me too but I don’t see them as like for like in Kenny’s starting formation. Under Kenny, Robinson plays more like a 10, roaming around that final third while I see Keane more as a 9 (I might be wrong on that though, not having seen anything other than highlights of his Wigan games).

Has actually played both roles for Wigan. Has moved to a more 9 role recently I think with Charlie Wykes out after his health scare when he went into cardiac arrest at training.

But when both were playing Keane was a 10 with Wykes playing as the 9, and when they played 3-5-2 Keane played even deeper with Lang playing up front with Wykes. Keane was playing the advanced midfield role to make it more 3-4-1-2.

[SkStu]

Has actually played both roles for Wigan. Has moved to a more 9 role recently I think with Charlie Wykes out after his health scare when he went into cardiac arrest at training.

But when both were playing Keane was a 10 with Wykes playing as the 9, and when they played 3-5-2 Keane played even deeper with Lang playing up front with Wykes. Keane was playing the advanced midfield role to make it more 3-4-1-2.

Interesting, cheers. I like what I’ve seen of him, he just seems to know where the goal is and where to put the ball. I have a hunch he might turn out to be a bit of a find for SK.

[samhaydenjr]

21st of the season for Keane, with a tap-in against Accrington - from what you lads have said, he didn't impress for Ireland, but I think he should continue to get minutes in The Nations League:https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59787676

[Snapshot]

21st of the season for Keane, with a tap-in against Accrington - from what you lads have said, he didn't impress for Ireland, but I think he should continue to get minutes in The Nations League:https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59787676
More than minutes. Keane and Hogan have scored 31 Championship/League 1 goals this season. Like it or not - that is now our judgement standard and Keane is killing it. If either were favourite sons of Dublin or Cork or Knocknagoshel they would be walk-up starts.

[mark12345]

21st of the season for Keane, with a tap-in against Accrington - from what you lads have said, he didn't impress for Ireland, but I think he should continue to get minutes in The Nations League:https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59787676

As far as this Ireland supporter is concerned, Will Keane has an awful lot to offer us even at the ripe old age of 29.

[ontheotherhand]

More than minutes. Keane and Hogan have scored 31 Championship/League 1 goals this season. Like it or not - that is now our judgement standard and Keane is killing it. If either were favourite sons of Dublin or Cork or Knocknagoshel they would be walk-up starts.

You're saying they aren't starting because they were born in England?

Both have had chances and failed to do much with them so far, Hogan in particular. Both are still being included and Keane even got a recent start. I think he looks the more likely to fit into the system we play but Hogan will get more chances.

It's funny how quickly the conversation has gone from "why is Kenny calling this lad up?" to "why isn't he starting him every game!?". Maybe that's not what you're saying but there's been quite a shift in sentiment. There's only really one slot up for grabs up front at the minute anyway. You'd hardly drop Robinson or Ogbene?

[pineapple stu]

Robinson isn't undroppable in fairness. He was quiet in the two March games (thought he was quite disappointing against Lithuania in particular) and while he's built up a lot of credit in the bank with those six goals in the autumn, if he was as quiet again in June, you'd consider looking at other options for September.

I think there's better and more consistent players than Ogbene out there, but in all fairness to the lad he makes it bloody hard to consider replacing him. Very like James McClean in that regard.

But yeah, don't agree that if Keane/Hogan were Irish born that they would be certain starters. Keane certainly didn't do enough last month to put himself ahead of Robinson in the pecking order for example.

[ontheotherhand]

I think the system we play also dictates who will be successful in it to a certain degree and I'd prefer Robinson over other options so far. He's quicker and can come in from wide or stay central. I didn't see enough from Keane to think he'd be a better option than Robinson or Ogbene but there is one slot open for me and he has time to nail it down. He's only recently gotten into the squad and deserves more game time even if he was poor against Lithuania. I thought he was better against Belgium when he came on.

But if Keane looked a better prospect and Robinson was picked ahead of him it would make the argument around the country they were born in a bit ridiculous. I'm not sure Snapshot was saying that to be fair which is why I asked.

[John83]

The three starting forwards aren't the only positions a player like Keane can target. Impact subs, especially those that can help alter the formation if necessary, are useful too. We've been so goal-shy for so long that it feels like anyone with a goal in them has to be shoe-horned into the starting XI somehow.

[ontheotherhand]

Absolutely. I would 100% have him around the squad and I want him to get more game time. I just don't think he's a walk on starter yet. He showed more against Belgium than I've seen from Hogan so far but I also think there's time's you'd want to bring on a player like Hogan.
.
We aren't doing too bad for goals with the current system all the same Lithuania did what they did and made it tricky but we have 20 goals in 11 games going back to Andorra or 16 in 9 going back to the defeat to Portugal I think?

[pineapple stu]

20 in 11, yeah. But Andorra, Qatar and Azerbaijan were wojus, and that's 11 of the goals right there. We won't have that calibre of opponent in the Nations League for example.

It'd be great to have a reliable goalscorer (I believe Robbie Keane is still contracted :) ); the home games against Portugal, Serbia and Azerbaijan we really struggled quite badly for chances. I don't think Robinson is that goalscorer, recent purple patch aside.

But on the flip side, we're not going seven games without a goal or relying on lumping the ball up to Shane Duffy, so that's certainly progress.

[TonyD]

I think there's better and more consistent players than Ogbene out there, but in all fairness to the lad he makes it bloody hard to consider replacing him. Very like James McClean in that regard.

.

Don’t know who these better players than Ogbene are. Not in our squad anyway. He’s been terrific since ha came in and is a certain first choice starter in my view, and rightly so. Cult hero already too I’d say.

[pineapple stu]

Not in our squad at the moment I don't think, no. But if a good Premier League winger popped up from somewhere (or even an excellent Championship one), then I think he'd go into the team.

But yeah, if you just look at our squad, we probably have more options to replace Robinson than Ogbene. And we don't really have many of either.

[Charlie Darwin]

More than minutes. Keane and Hogan have scored 31 Championship/League 1 goals this season. Like it or not - that is now our judgement standard and Keane is killing it. If either were favourite sons of Dublin or Cork or Knocknagoshel they would be walk-up starts.
They literally both played in our most recent game. I'm not sure what more you want.

[Charlie Darwin]

20 in 11, yeah. But Andorra, Qatar and Azerbaijan were wojus, and that's 11 of the goals right there. We won't have that calibre of opponent in the Nations League for example.
Small sample size, obviously, but two against a decent Belgium side is good. It seems clear the team has taken a step up since the Serbia game and, with the 0-0 against Portugal, the Belgians were the first real test of our attack and they did good. I wouldn't be getting ahead of myself but I think you could say our attacking game has gotten a bit of shape it didn't have before.

[Snapshot]

21st of the season for Keane, with a tap-in against Accrington - from what you lads have said, he didn't impress for Ireland, but I think he should continue to get minutes in The Nations League.


More than minutes. Keane and Hogan have scored 31 Championship/League 1 goals this season. Like it or not - that is now our judgement standard and Keane is killing it . . . "


They literally both played in our most recent game. I'm not sure what more you want.

My post was in the context that neither should be discarded on the basis of the poor Lithuania game. Keane scored his 22nd goal at the weekend.

[samhaydenjr]

23rd and 24th of the season today, putting him joint top of the League One goal scoring charts, helping to salvage a draw with Ipswich and put Wigan within a point of promotion: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61075994

[pineapple stu]

Two more today, the second of which was assisted by McClean. So 25 league goals for the season, plus one in the EFL trophy. Hard to reconcile that with the player we saw against Lithuania, but definitely seems worth having around the squad.

[Snapshot]

Two more today, the second of which was assisted by McClean. So 25 league goals for the season, plus one in the EFL trophy. Hard to reconcile that with the player we saw against Lithuania, but definitely seems worth having around the squad.
Who else should be relegated to "around the squad" because of that collective embarrassment v Lithuania? Keane and his 26-goal season should be bench warming while we prefer someone nowhere near as prolific? That would make no sense though, no doubt, "system" huggers would mount a challenge.

[ontheotherhand]

He played in the last two games. Can you answer my previous question? Why do you think he'd be playing more if he was born in Ireland? What are you trying to say?

[pineapple stu]

Who else should be relegated to "around the squad" because of that collective embarrassment v Lithuania? Keane and his 26-goal season should be bench warming while we prefer someone nowhere near as prolific? That would make no sense though, no doubt, "system" huggers would mount a challenge.
Well Georgie Kelly is averaging a goal every ten minutes in L1, so I'd have him in. :p

I was being slightly facetious in my comments given recent criticism of Keane after the Lithuania game. He played poorly, and I don't think he did anything in the game to suggest he should be our first choice come June. But neither should he be dropped from squad contention, as I think has been suggested.

It'll be very interesting to see how he gets on next season. Some players have struggled with the step up (Paddy Madden for example), and others have taken to it well (like James Collins). And yet as Collins has shown, international ball can be different again.

[Snapshot]

He played in the last two games. Can you answer my previous question? Why do you think he'd be playing more if he was born in Ireland? What are you trying to say?
I was unaware I was under subpoena. Keane has one start and minutes against Portugal and Belgium. You'd dismiss a 27-goal striker on that basis? I don't. My other point was he'd have more support from the fanbase, given the season he's had, if he was Irish born and raised. It's an opinion, like it or lump it.

[ontheotherhand]

I was unaware I was under subpoena. Keane has one start and minutes against Portugal and Belgium. You'd dismiss a 27-goal striker on that basis? I don't. My other point was he'd have more support from the fanbase, given the season he's had, if he was Irish born and raised. It's an opinion, like it or lump it.

Welcome to the internet, where people question your opinions whether you like it or lump it.

What would his relative support from the fanbase have to do with him being a "walk up start" as you put it?

And who is dismissing him? The thread is fairly positive about him and he played the last two games.

[SkStu]

Welcome to the internet, where people question your opinions whether you like it or lump it.

What would his relative support from the fanbase have to do with him being a "walk up start" as you put it?

And who is dismissing him? The thread is fairly positive about him and he played the last two games.

Totally agree with all of this and, let’s all be honest here, Snapshot’s posts about Keane are not really about Keane. They’re about Kenny.

[Snapshot]

Welcome to the internet, where people question your opinions whether you like it or lump it.

What would his relative support from the fanbase have to do with him being a "walk up start" as you put it?

And who is dismissing him? The thread is fairly positive about him and he played the last two games.
Bizarre school of thought it might be, but I believe a 27-goal striker should be preferred to a 10-goal striker. I also think the positivity you reference should place Keane in the NL starting line-up, not on the bench. Yes, it's about Kenny - he picks the team. Anything else, your Honour(s)?

[SkStu]

Bizarre school of thought it might be, but I believe a 27-goal striker should be preferred to a 10-goal striker. I also think the positivity you reference should place Keane in the NL starting line-up, not on the bench. Yes, it's about Kenny - he picks the team. Anything else, your Honour(s)?

What team would you build around Keane so?

[ontheotherhand]

Bizarre school of thought it might be, but I believe a 27-goal striker should be preferred to a 10-goal striker. I also think the positivity you reference should place Keane in the NL starting line-up, not on the bench. Yes, it's about Kenny - he picks the team. Anything else, your Honour(s)?

So you were suggesting that Kenny isn't picking Keane (despite Kenny being the one who called him up and started him in our most recent game) because the fans don't like him enough because he wasn't born in Ireland?

He will play again. If he doesn't make an impact for Ireland it won't matter how many goals he scores at club level though. I like him and thought he offered something different against Belgium.

[Snapshot]

What team would you build around Keane so?
I've briefed Stephen. Watch this space.

[nigel-harps1954]

Saw a fair few remarks around the time of the Lithuania game from Wigan fans that he was used wrong by Ireland. Doesn't play as an out and out striker for Wigan, drops a little deeper and plays more of a number 10 role.

[Snapshot]

So you were suggesting that Kenny isn't picking Keane (despite Kenny being the one who called him up and started him in our most recent game) because the fans don't like him enough because he wasn't born in Ireland?

He will play again. If he doesn't make an impact for Ireland it won't matter how many goals he scores at club level though. I like him and thought he offered something different against Belgium.
I've made my point about Keane. You disagree - fair enough. My other comment was on Keane's popularity (or lack of) within the fanbase. You disagree, again fair enough but please don't extrapolate what's not there. Your ally introduced Kenny, not me. Can I go now?

[ontheotherhand]

Saw a fair few remarks around the time of the Lithuania game from Wigan fans that he was used wrong by Ireland. Doesn't play as an out and out striker for Wigan, drops a little deeper and plays more of a number 10 role.

It was in those deeper positions that I thought he looked more useful in his brief cameo v Belgium. Doesn't look like he likes playing much further forward with his back to goal but he looked like he knew how to take the ball in tight space and move it well.

Where does he score most of his goals?

[ontheotherhand]

I've made my point about Keane. You disagree - fair enough. My other comment was on Keane's popularity (or lack of) within the fanbase. You disagree, again fair enough but please don't extrapolate what's not there. Your ally introduced Kenny, not me. Can I go now?

So your posts about Kenny weren't about Kenny? Yeah you can go. You successfully united a Rovers and Bohs fan to be fair. Not a bad little Saturday.

[SkStu]

I've briefed Stephen. Watch this space.

No seriously. You come on here taking little digs at the fans, the “system” and that it should be sacrificed for Keane as a guaranteed starter. What formation and team do you think we should put out to get the most out of him?

FWIW, I like Keane and happy to have a decent goalscorer (albeit only proven at a lower level) in the squad fighting for his place. I just don’t think he’s a guaranteed starter and it rankles a little that him not walking into the team and throwing the long term plan out the window is being used to take a dig at SK. And the fans.

[Snapshot]

No seriously. You come on here taking little digs at the fans, the “system” and that it should be sacrificed for Keane as a guaranteed starter. What formation and team do you think we should put out to get the most out of him?

FWIW, I like Keane and happy to have a decent goalscorer (albeit only proven at a lower level) in the squad fighting for his place. I just don’t think he’s a guaranteed starter and it rankles a little that him not walking into the team and throwing the long term plan out the window is being used to take a dig at SK. And the fans.
I'll put a team up before the next match when I "come on here". You look on whatever I say as pejorative. You call criticisms "digs" etc. Accept everyone won't always agree with you.

[tetsujin1979]

We have a rule here gentle sirs, debate the post, not the poster.
This is not aimed at anyone in particular, just a reminder.

[SkStu]

I'll put a team up before the next match when I "come on here". You look on whatever I say as pejorative. You call criticisms "digs" etc. Accept everyone won't always agree with you.

I’m totally fine with differences of opinion and love some healthy debate but, in that spirit, I’m entitled to ask questions to understand better what you are seeing that’s different to what I am seeing. But you’ve avoided one simple question twice now so I’ll leave it at that.

“He deserves an automatic starting spot but SK and the fanboys don’t like him because he wasn’t born in Ireland” is a take that needs some additional explanation or evidence. That’s all.

[John83]

Saw a fair few remarks around the time of the Lithuania game from Wigan fans that he was used wrong by Ireland. Doesn't play as an out and out striker for Wigan, drops a little deeper and plays more of a number 10 role.
It might be interesting to try playing him off of Idah or Obafeme in the summer. You'd want a good wide player up there with them though, or we'd ask too much of the wingbacks.

[nigel-harps1954]

It might be interesting to try playing him off of Idah or Obafeme in the summer. You'd want a good wide player up there with them though, or we'd ask too much of the wingbacks.

It might just be a case that he doesn't fit into Kennys system, and while there's other strikers out there who do fit, it's probably not worth changing things to fit a player who's scored goals at League One level.

[paul_oshea]

At the moment as we've found some goal scoring form whether accidently stumbled upon or a shrewd tactical change the case for having a league 1 striker scoring freely isn't as strong as you suggest, but it would be prudent to have tried and tested another option that may well be needed in the future and within a game/games.

[Snapshot]

I’m totally fine with differences of opinion and love some healthy debate but, in that spirit, I’m entitled to ask questions to understand better what you are seeing that’s different to what I am seeing. But you’ve avoided one simple question twice now so I’ll leave it at that.

“He deserves an automatic starting spot but SK and the fanboys don’t like him because he wasn’t born in Ireland” is a take that needs some additional explanation or evidence. That’s all.
Could you please call up the post in which the above direct quote, which you attribute to me, appears. Thanks.

[SkStu]

No. It’s a summary of what you said across quite a few posts. Feel free to correct my interpretation.

[Snapshot]

No. It’s a summary of what you said across quite a few posts. Feel free to correct my interpretation.
A textbook example of turning the subjective into the pejorative: “SK and the fanboys don’t like him”.

I stand firmly by my opinion as stated. I think Keane should start in the NL. His record and versatility deserves it. All fans are biased towards certain players for various reasons. Nothing new there. I did not bring Kenny into the discussion and, though not a fan, I believe him a fair person. But like all managers he has favourites (IMO) and in this context if a hot-prospect Keane had been Irish-born, raised and coached by Kenny before injury plagued a major part of his fledgling career I believe his belated chances following a standout season would be enhanced. Human nature.
A storm in a teacup.

[ontheotherhand]

A textbook example of turning the subjective into the pejorative: “SK and the fanboys don’t like him”.

I stand firmly by my opinion as stated. I think Keane should start in the NL. His record and versatility deserves it. All fans are biased towards certain players for various reasons. Nothing new there. I did not bring Kenny into the discussion and, though not a fan, I believe him a fair person. But like all managers he has favourites (IMO) and in this context if a hot-prospect Keane had been Irish-born, raised and coached by Kenny before injury plagued a major part of his fledgling career I believe his belated chances following a standout season would be enhanced. Human nature.
A storm in a teacup.

So you didn't bring Kenny into the discussion (despite saying you were talking about Kenny) but you want to now? And again, you think that Kenny would prefer Keane over e.g. Robinson if Keane had been Irish born?

[Snapshot]

So you didn't bring Kenny into the discussion (despite saying you were talking about Kenny) but you want to now? And again, you think that Kenny would prefer Keane over e.g. Robinson if Keane had been Irish born?
skStu introduced Kenny in a post claiming I was only using the Keane issue to get at Kenny. I absolutely wasn’t. I believe that currently Keane should start on merit. I do not believe Kenny is biased, as explained above, but he’s the manager and If he doesn’t start Keane I will criticise him for the same reasons as would other posters who disagree with a selection.

[John83]

Guys, you've made your points. Let's not make a big thing of it.

[elatedscum]

like all managers he has favourites (IMO) and in this context if a hot-prospect Keane had been Irish-born, raised and coached by Kenny before injury plagued a major part of his fledgling career I believe his belated chances following a standout season would be enhanced. Human nature.
A storm in a teacup.

“raised and coached by Kenny“

The issue is, the underage players who were coached by Kenny are all ages 19-24 now. So they’re all very much on the upswing. Keane is 29.

As far as I remember, the only 2 players who played for Kenny at Dundalk are McGrath and Horgan, neither of whom made the last squad and then there’s James McClean who is a total different category with 90+ caps to his name, 150+ premier league appearances etc etc

Not much evidence of a non-irish born bias. The likes of Arter and O’Dowda have received some pretty favourable call ups, while Ciaran Clark was briefly harshly done by.

[Snapshot]

“raised and coached by Kenny“

The issue is, the underage players who were coached by Kenny are all ages 19-24 now. So they’re all very much on the upswing. Keane is 29.

As far as I remember, the only 2 players who played for Kenny at Dundalk are McGrath and Horgan, neither of whom made the last squad and then there’s James McClean who is a total different category with 90+ caps to his name, 150+ premier league appearances etc etc

Not much evidence of a non-irish born bias. The likes of Arter and O’Dowda have received some pretty favourable call ups, while Ciaran Clark was briefly harshly done by.

1. Irish-born and raised - and coached by Kenny.

2. It was a hypothetical about Keane. I’m aware of the age differential.

Thanks.