Pat Fenlon resigning from Bohs? [Archive] - Page 2

Dodge

26/03/2011, 8:08 PM

I agree with you Dodge, up to a point.

The problems in Bohs are partially to do with successive boards inability to face up his demands. Fenlon is certainly part of the problem

For the record I didn't say Nutsy wasn't completely innocent, but their problems started before he went there, and he just carried on with the sham spending. problem lies with the board (and members)

bluewhitearmy

26/03/2011, 8:12 PM

Defo did at the start of this season. Tabloids don't do websites so probably won't find a link for you

Wasnt there some interview where he was talking about barely having enough money to get a team together.

Ezeikial

26/03/2011, 10:04 PM

I have never seen an interview by him pleading poverty at Bohs so your a bit unfair on him. Feel free to prove me wrong though...

Unfair comments on Fenlon, becuase you have not seen an interview by him complaining???

Where do you think the €250k figure comes from?

Have you thought about the purpose behind feeding gullible journos with this rubbish?

Just because Dervan says it again and again does not make correct or believable

Poor Student

26/03/2011, 10:37 PM

Drop in the ocean with Zurich lurking around the corner in 2012, the year of the Bohs apocalypse

So that's what the Mayans knew.:eek:

Jicked

26/03/2011, 10:49 PM

I think your issues lie with how journo's refer to Fenlon than the man himself. I have never seen an interview by him pleading poverty at Bohs so your a bit unfair on him. Feel free to prove me wrong though...

Before the start of the season he was saying how hard it was to put together a squad at all and wasn't sure if it would be possible, suddenly he has a grand sized squad with plenty of experience and title winners in it. Remember the story that he shopped around everywhere about how his poor, poor title winning side weren't able to spend the night in Derry after a game? Rovers are pretty well off respectively, not all full time players and managed to survive getting the bus back from Derry last night.

L.T.F.C.

27/03/2011, 12:31 AM

Nutsy's a decent bloke, and I've yet to hear a single player who's played under him to have a pop.

Know them all do you?

horton

27/03/2011, 4:14 PM

Jaysus far to much hostility on here for my liking. Fair enough, I live in England so I'm not exposed to the local tabloid fodder about the LoI. I retract my comment.

Dodge

27/03/2011, 7:38 PM

Know them all do you?

Course not, but I've heard loads of players complain about other managers. Its a small enough league

Macy

28/03/2011, 8:56 AM

I think your issues lie with how journo's refer to Fenlon than the man himself. I have never seen an interview by him pleading poverty at Bohs so your a bit unfair on him. Feel free to prove me wrong though...
Yeah, the journo's all came up with the same line, independently without any spinning from anyone...

Hard to argue with Fenlons record, however, he has always done it with money and has never done it, or shown any desire to do it, on a limited budget. That will always be attached to what he's done in the LoI, imho.

CrowdedHouse

28/03/2011, 11:43 AM

Excellent Article on We Play Fridays :D

http://weplayonfridays.com/?p=401

pineapple stu

28/03/2011, 12:35 PM

An actual source (http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/5275/).

Dodge

28/03/2011, 12:57 PM

An actual source (http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/5275/).

So an unnamed source said "We don't know whats happening"

Smashing piece of journalism that

pineapple stu

28/03/2011, 1:20 PM

Still the best source on the thread so far!

(Damn your realism...)

alltogethernow

28/03/2011, 1:45 PM

But as we know Bohs refuse to go down the route most clubs in the league has had to do, ie start from scratch again and build on that.

Do you actually know anything?

CuanaD

28/03/2011, 2:29 PM

Do you actually know anything?

Fine example of a rhetorical question there
:cool:
:ball:

hoopy

28/03/2011, 3:46 PM

Do you actually know anything?

I asked the question on another thread and I 'll ask it again. Why didn't Bohs members ask for an EGM when Stevie Wonder could see how things were panning out?

marinobohs

28/03/2011, 3:51 PM

I asked the question on another thread and I 'll ask it again. Why didn't Bohs members ask for an EGM when Stevie Wonder could see how things were panning out?

... not sure but maybe
(a) Fenlon has not gone yet so bit early for an EGM to discuss it.
(b) AGM was last Monday night so some may have thought it a bit soon for an EGM (given rules it would have had to be sought before the AGM took place.Weird)

Amusing seeing you ramble on about something you appear to know so little about but suggest you may be ruining the image of shams "knowing everything about Bohs" that some on here like to imagine.

alltogethernow

28/03/2011, 3:55 PM

I asked the question on another thread and I 'll ask it again. Why didn't Bohs members ask for an EGM when Stevie Wonder could see how things were panning out?

No no, just wondering if you know anything about why we haven't done what you lot have done and as you say 'start again'

Clearly you don't.

On Fenlon going, hopefully we don't have to pay him to much!!

hoopy

28/03/2011, 3:58 PM

... not sure but maybe
(a) Fenlon has not gone yet so bit early for an EGM to discuss it.
(b) AGM was last Monday night so some may have thought it a bit soon for an EGM (given rules it would have had to be sought before the AGM took place.Weird)

Amusing seeing you ramble on about something you appear to know so little about but suggest you may be ruining the image of shams "knowing everything about Bohs" that some on here like to imagine.

If you took the blinkers off I actually meant why wasn't an EGM called for a few weeks ago when everyone knew the budget figures were a fairytale?

hoopy

28/03/2011, 4:00 PM

No no, just wondering if you know anything about why we haven't done what you lot have done and as you say 'start again'

Clearly you don't.

I'd hazard a guess and say things would've been done differently at Bohs if our club wasn't as well run and in the great situation it is now. There's rivalry and then there's stupidity.

alltogethernow

29/03/2011, 9:26 AM

shantykelly

29/03/2011, 9:36 AM

Right, im lost. How can we do what you have done and 'start over again' as you say when we own Dalymount?

sell it again? and again?

marinobohs

29/03/2011, 9:56 AM

If you took the blinkers off I actually meant why wasn't an EGM called for a few weeks ago when everyone knew the budget figures were a fairytale?

Amazing how you knew they were a "fairytale" but people who saw them like FAI and licencing people accepted the budget So lets see, sham "we know all about Bohs" speculating on guesstimatesversus experienced football/financial administrators that have actually seen the figures ? Wow, that a tough one to call. again why would members call an EGM when the AGM was scheduled for last Monday night anyway ? Are you really silly enough to believe Fenlon is leaving because Bohs are spending too much ?

pineapple stu

29/03/2011, 10:03 AM

Cos no club who's had their budget accepted by the FAI has ever then completely ignored it.

marinobohs

29/03/2011, 10:08 AM

I'd hazard a guess and say things would've been done differently at Bohs if our club wasn't as well run and in the great situation it is now. There's rivalry and then there's stupidity.

Maybe its because due to Dalymount we cant just stiff our creditors (including players) like shams did. Maybe its because we want to do our best to honour our commitments and not walk away from them like shams did. Maybe we do not see misapprpriating public funding as a business option. Maybe we are still not in as bad a position as shams were in 2005 (have not noticed any orders for Tippex at Dalymount yet). Maybe a combination of several/all of these

Presumably you are only supporting shams since 2006 as otherwise you would be aware how appallingly badly they were run up until that. Presumably you forget that after twenty odd years of renting (and various promises of "permanent homes") you are still renting on an insecure basis. The fact that you can "fold the club" at any time because you have little in the way of assets is not quite the same as "well run" or indeed constitute a "great situation".

El-Pietro

29/03/2011, 12:18 PM

Cos no club who's had their budget accepted by the FAI has ever then completely ignored it.
Tom Coughlan did. supposed to have thrown it in the bin as soon as it was reviewed

Jicked

29/03/2011, 12:34 PM

Maybe its because due to Dalymount we cant just stiff our creditors (including players) like shams did. Maybe its because we want to do our best to honour our commitments and not walk away from them like shams did. Maybe we do not see misapprpriating public funding as a business option. Maybe we are still not in as bad a position as shams were in 2005 (have not noticed any orders for Tippex at Dalymount yet). Maybe a combination of several/all of these

Huh? You can, and you did just a few short weeks ago. When the 400 Club originally took over Rovers we were only in a position to pay 4% of the debts racked up by the old board, it was that or they got nothing. About 2 months ago Bohemians paid their players a percentage of the money they owed them for next season, it was that or they got nothing. Obviously there's bigger payments to be made in the future, but I hardly think Bohs are above trying to renegotiate their debt when they did just that about 8 weeks ago.

The fact that you can "fold the club" at any time because you have little in the way of assets is not quite the same as "well run" or indeed constitute a "great situation".

Shamrock Rovers have been well run for many years now, no matter how it galls you to admit it. Presumably the hundreds of clubs around Europe who don't own their grounds can never be as well run as Bohemians, I'm sure European Champions Internazionale are worried about their far from great situation.

Financial Stew

29/03/2011, 12:36 PM

[QUOTE=marinobohs;1470784]Maybe its because due to Dalymount we cant just stiff our creditors (including players) like shams did. Maybe its because we want to do our best to honour our commitments

REALLY!!!!!

And you think that racking up even more debt by signing up some of the best players in the league when as per usual you can't afford them will help you to honour your commitments????

Charlie Darwin

29/03/2011, 1:09 PM

Maybe its because due to Dalymount we cant just stiff our creditors (including players) like shams did.
This isn't strictly true. Provided the debts were taken on in good conscience, Bohs are fully entitled to restructure their debts and negotiate with creditors like Jicked said. They can even offer equity in the club's assets as part of the deal.

You say Dalymount is the reason Bohs can't stiff their creditors, but in reality it's the only reason they don't have to.

Dodge

29/03/2011, 1:42 PM

Or more correctly its the reason why creditors won't accept the 4% figure that Rovers paid, or the 15% Cork paid.

Charlie Darwin

29/03/2011, 1:50 PM

Same outcome, yeah. It's all a moot point unless Bohs are actually forced to default though.

marinobohs

29/03/2011, 1:55 PM

Huh? You can, and you did just a few short weeks ago. When the 400 Club originally took over Rovers we were only in a position to pay 4% of the debts racked up by the old board, it was that or they got nothing. About 2 months ago Bohemians paid their players a percentage of the money they owed them for next season, it was that or they got nothing. Obviously there's bigger payments to be made in the future, but I hardly think Bohs are above trying to renegotiate their debt when they did just that about 8 weeks ago.

Shamrock Rovers have been well run for many years now, no matter how it galls you to admit it. Presumably the hundreds of clubs around Europe who don't own their grounds can never be as well run as Bohemians, I'm sure European Champions Internazionale are worried about their far from great situation.

Actually we renegotiated the contracts (by way of severance) technically we did not owe them anything for next season as they had not yet fulfilled their contractural obligations and when was it suggested they would get "nothing" if they didnt accept ? Think you are mixing up shams 05 with Bohs situation which are toally different.
Glad you think shams are "well run" despite racking up considerable defiit with no assets, sounds like assured business plan to me :o

SkStu

29/03/2011, 4:09 PM

we have another thread for Bohs financial turmoil.

This one is for Bohs managerial turmoil.

Thanks.

dfx-

29/03/2011, 4:13 PM

we have another thread for Bohs financial turmoil.

This one is for Bohs managerial turmoil.

Thanks.

And the weekend latest threads for Bohs' on-the-pitch turmoil:cute:

SkStu

29/03/2011, 4:16 PM

And the weekend latest threads for Bohs' on-the-pitch turmoil:cute:

exactly. Its never boring! ;)

orielabu

29/03/2011, 5:46 PM

Jicked

29/03/2011, 6:10 PM

Something is puzzling me about this thread.
Shamrock Rovers supporters, while putting the boot in to Bohs, are seemingly gloating at the fact that they were cute enough in 2005 to welsh on their debts. And don’t try to convince the rest of us that paying 4% isn’t welshing.
In the light of this recent record they are asking (demanding of) the rest of us to accept their bona fides as ‘a well run club’.
I’m not aware that Bohemians had welshed on their debts. Have I missed something. Or is this just a new version of the old fashioned and well-established Rovers arrogance.
Be assured of this…no LOI club has a monopoly on stupidity.

I don't know what "welshing" means, but Bohs weren't in a position to pay their players what they had agreed to. I've no idea if that's "welshing" or not.
No-one is demanding anything of what you believe, if you want to think we're a badly run club because you don't like it us I'm sure most of us will cope.
It wasn't being cute re: examinership, it's a legal process designed for just that type of sitaution, and with the consent of creditors. To learn more about the process, see today's Irish Times which in an article on examinership itself, conveniently had this to say:
"Among the most successful outcomes from an examinership process is the case of football club Shamrock Rovers. When it entered examinership in 2005 the club had debts of €2m and had been relegated to the second division. Taken out of examinership by a group of several hundred supporters, it was remodelled as a member-run club and has enjoyed success both on and off the field since. It moved to the new purpose-built Tallaght Stadium in 2009 and won the Premier Division title last year."

Ezeikial

29/03/2011, 6:16 PM

I don't know what "welshing" means,

Hope this helps:

Definition of WELSH

intransitive verb
1
sometimes offensive : to avoid payment �used with on

2
sometimes offensive : to break one's word : renege (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/renege)

� welsh�er noun, sometimes offensive

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/welshing

SkStu

29/03/2011, 6:29 PM

I don't know what "welshing" means, but Bohs weren't in a position to pay their players what they had agreed to. I've no idea if that's "welshing" or not.
No-one is demanding anything of what you believe, if you want to think we're a badly run club because you don't like it us I'm sure most of us will cope.
It wasn't being cute re: examinership, it's a legal process designed for just that type of sitaution, and with the consent of creditors. To learn more about the process, see today's Irish Times which in an article on examinership itself, conveniently had this to say:
"Among the most successful outcomes from an examinership process is the case of football club Shamrock Rovers. When it entered examinership in 2005 the club had debts of €2m and had been relegated to the second division. Taken out of examinership by a group of several hundred supporters, it was remodelled as a member-run club and has enjoyed success both on and off the field since. It moved to the new purpose-built Tallaght Stadium in 2009 and won the Premier Division title last year."

just to further show how successful this process was, Shamrock Rovers paid approximately €80,000 of the total debt of €2m. Great success.

http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/borat-high-five_40034.jpg

Jicked

29/03/2011, 7:22 PM

just to further show how successful this process was, Shamrock Rovers paid approximately €80,000 of the total debt of €2m. Great success.

Yes. Again, the process is called examinership and is open to every business to consider, and was done with the agreement of the creditors. It is a great success as without examinership creditors would receive nothing instead of their 80,000 in this example, and then there is the numerous businesses that make money from the company in the future being kept on as a going concern as opposed to being wound up.

Also, it happened six or so years ago now for what it's worth, you'd have thought your disappointment that Rovers weren't put out of business would have eased somewhat.

SkStu

29/03/2011, 7:25 PM

I never wanted Rovers out of business Jicked. I value our rivalry too much. This doesnt mean i don't like to raise the 4% thing every once in a while. :)

oriel

29/03/2011, 8:05 PM

ashbournebohs

29/03/2011, 8:26 PM

HulaHoop

29/03/2011, 8:39 PM

While we have moved off topic slightly i have a question.Bohemian F.C itself is a limited company.What Company runs SRFC now and is it the same company that shafted the creditors under maguire and co or was a new company formed in 2005 post examinership.Genuine question.Any rovers fans clued in/brave enough to answer.?

Same company. The whole point of examinership is that the company continues trading.

While we're on the subject, not many people seem to realise that going down the examinership road actually ended up costing us more than going bust and starting from scratch like Derry and Cork have done since. The 400 club spent the guts of a million funding the club during examinership, the legal costs of the process and paying off the 4% of debt the courts agreed. We ended up getting relegated anyway and played in the first division in 2006. In hindsight the 400 club could have let the club fold in 2005, start up a new holding company and apply for a 1st division licence in 2006 with a substantial six figure sum still in the bank.

ashbournebohs

29/03/2011, 8:58 PM

Same company. The whole point of examinership is that the company continues trading.

While we're on the subject, not many people seem to realise that going down the examinership road actually ended up costing us more than going bust and starting from scratch like Derry and Cork have done since. The 400 club spent the guts of a million funding the club during examinership, the legal costs of the process and paying off the 4% of debt the courts agreed. We ended up getting relegated anyway and played in the first division in 2006. In hindsight the 400 club could have let the club fold in 2005, start up a new holding company and apply for a 1st division licence in 2006 with a substantial six figure sum still in the bank.

Fair play i have alot of respect for what your fans did to keep your club alive(together with a large slice of good fortune).That respect was eroded slightly by alot of your fans arrogance twards the clubs that put you up in their grounds despite protestations from fans and locals(money talks)and helped keep your show on the road.At the very least when you got things sorted a small thank you through the media towards ourselves shelbourne st pats ucd cork etc for the help and some gratious acceptance of that fact wouldnt have been a lot to ask for.Anyhoo it doesnt change much still hate ye!!!!

Jicked

29/03/2011, 9:49 PM

It is also worth noting that the process called 'examinership' is almost exclusive to Ireland, and it is commonly known in most other countries as (going into) 'receivership'

80k was some result I can tell you.

They are two different processes, since the 1990 Companies Act we've had both receivership and examinership in Ireland

Charlie Darwin

29/03/2011, 11:54 PM

just to further show how successful this process was, Shamrock Rovers paid approximately €80,000 of the total debt of €2m. Great success.
I assume you're just taking 4% of €2m but I don't think that's correct. The 2.3ish million debt figure included Revenue debts (500-600k), of which a large amount (probably more than 50%) was written off, players' wages of which 2/3 were paid, then the remainder was made up of business creditors, bank loans and six-figure loans from directors. Business creditors were given 2pc, banks presumably 4pc and directors' loans were written off.

As far as I know, the 400 club raised 600-700k and running costs during examinership plus the examiners' costs probably came to half that. That leaves 300k+ of debt paid, probably. No breakdown has been given to the best of my knowledge. I'm not basing this on insider knowledge that some other posters might have, just the figures I dug up a few months back from bits and pieces of newspaper reports.

It's not an awful lot better - and nobody is proud of business creditors not being paid - but it was a huge achievement for a club with no assets to raise that much cash and at least give something out.