Club Finances

[Nesta99]

Robbed from a post by Chris on Orielweb. Spin or fact?

Noel Mooney
"If I was to tell you of a company in this recession who made a profit of €172,00 last year, would you call that failure?, No you wouldn't. But thats what Dundalk did in 2010. In total 11 of the league's clubs turned over a profit, two of them making more than €100,000, with a third coming very close to that".

"That madness has gone. Full time football is manageable if clubs are sensible. But no industry is going to last if the employer pays way over the odds to their workers. Thats what happened in the Airtricity League. Now, there is a marked improvement". Those improvements are highlighted by the way Dundalk, Shamrock Rovers and Sligo run their Clubs, who between them have generated profits in excess of €500,000 over the past two years.

[avvenalaf]

Noel Mooney is an idiot worthy only of our pity.

And on that basis the fact that he is telling the truth should be ignored. I mean, perish the thought that Limerick (City, United, FC, 84 or whatever the current manifestation is) would be arsed looking at how those three clubs have achieved and maintained solvency.

[Schumi]

Robbed from a post by Chris on Orielweb. Spin or fact?

Of course it's spin. Some of it may be true though.

[Lim till i die]

And on that basis the fact that he is telling the truth should be ignored. I mean, perish the thought that Limerick would be arsed looking at how those three clubs have achieved and maintained solvency.

It's spin, complete and utter garbage, I've seen the way these LoI budget spreadsheet thingys are made out.

As far as the FAI were concerned Limerick made a "profit" of over 250 grand before Jack McCarthy jumped ship.

FACT, as they say on the internet.

[Dodge]

ROvers have something like 600k accumulated losses since becominga members club. No doubt at all that last year was their best year ever (financially( and they're heading in the right direction

Dundalk took a few dratic measures 5/6 years ago and are now seeing the benefit. Definitely a club that seem to be doing things right

Sligo have a full time squad on gates of 1,500 - 2,000 a week less than 18 months after issuing a 'sae our club' rallying call. Maybe some Sligo fan can explain it but the reasons aren't too obvious to me

Pats lost money last year (a lot of money) and that was after we cut back significantly

[harps1954]

Just back from the Harps AGM, and our accounts showed a profit of over €11,000 last year. Not a lot, but better than a loss.

[Red Army]

Rovers made a 65grand profit last year. Just very hard work behind the scenes. I've never seen things looking so good financial at Rovers in 20 years.

[Red4Eva]

Sligo have a full time squad on gates of 1,500 - 2,000 a week less than 18 months after issuing a 'sae our club' rallying call. Maybe some Sligo fan can explain it but the reasons aren't too obvious to me

As far as I can remember we've made an profit every year since 2001 apart from 2007 when we made a loss of €130k. This resulted in an unpaid tax bill for a similar amount hence the 'save our club' campaign in Summer 2008 which raised approx. €90k in a few weeks. The club didn't think we'd get away with not paying taxes like other clubs have done so the drastic action had to be taken. I think the full-time/part-time debate is stupid. It's only relevant what a player is actually getting paid, not whether he trains in the day or night.

Less than 18 months ago?! I don't remember that one Dodge

[Dave_SRFC]

Rovers made a 65grand profit last year. Just very hard work behind the scenes. I've never seen things looking so good financial at Rovers in 20 years.

I'd say thats a load of ********, not **** stirring but I'd say you'll be in trouble within 2 years....

[Red4Eva]

What's the basis for your assumption that it's bull****. We're you at our AGM 2 weeks ago? Did you see the accounts?

[Mr A]

A 65k profit in a year when you won both cups, finished third in the league and sold a player for a decent fee... what would the results have been like if everything hadn't gone right?

[Red4Eva]

A 65k profit in a year when you won both cups, finished third in the league and sold a player for a decent fee... what would the results have been like if everything hadn't gone right?

We spent a lot of money on infrastructure. New offices, new tv gantry and a substantial amount spent on improving the pitch.

[Red Army]

SRFC Dave when is the results of the FAI investigation at our club that the pigs were spotting a while back?

[Red Army]

That figure excludes a six figure prize fund from the the FAI which hadn't been paid by the time of the agm. The club will only spend money we have unlike others.

[Aaron]

We also recorded a small profit from last year

[shantykelly]

and would have posted a fairly substantial loss if we hadn't won the first division, due in the main I think from honouring Wellvan commitments towards season tickets and the like.

[Aaron]

and would have posted a fairly substantial loss if we hadn't won the first division, due in the main I think from honouring Wellvan commitments towards season tickets and the like.

Quite true. Here's a summary from our forum


The accounts showed a profit of £400.00 on an income of slightly over £500,000.

The Board have given Stephen Kenny an increase in his budget of 25% which they hope they can offset with additional season ticket sales as last season they honoured the tickets for those who had paid early for their tickets to the previous now liquidated company Wellvan. This amounted to something like £70,000.

It would also appear that the current company is a creditor of Wellvan, having honoured these season tickets, so we may be entitled to some monies from the Connor Salmon sell on clause. It is however only likely to be pence in the pound and of no great significance. Linfield are also still owed money by Wellvan for tickets sold for a match at Windsor but are waiting for the conclusion of the Wellvan liquidation to get some monies. It would appear that the current Board whilst not legally responsible for this debt will make up the difference.

[Dodge]

Less than 18 months ago?! I don't remember that one Dodge

When was it that Paul Cook threaten to resign as money wasn't there for his squad? Around 2 years ago? maybe longer.

EDIY; Sorry I see you'#ve answered me there. Summer 2008. Fair enough. I was 12 months out


I think the full-time/part-time debate is stupid. It's only relevant what a player is actually getting paid, not whether he trains in the day or night.
Agreed, and in the case of Sligo we have people like Richie Ryan saying things like this


"I don't want to go part-time. I haven't been part-time since I've been a footballer.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/player-of-year-ryan-sets-sights-on-move-abroad-2434747.html

So its fair to assume that Ryan, who lives in Sligo, is earning enough money to be comfotable enough that he doesn't have to work outside football. It seems the whole suad is like that. So 18 players are earning enough wages so as not to have to wokr elsewhere.

And no one yet has explained how you can afford that on similar gates to Pats

[poster]

And no one yet has explained how you can afford that on similar gates to Pats

I think our gates have been a bit higher on average than Pat's in the last three or so seasons though Dodge, no? Or maybe we have a better wage structure than Pat's have had the last 3/4 seasons and been more sensible in what we offer our players??

[redobit]

A 65k profit in a year when you won both cups, finished third in the league and sold a player for a decent fee... what would the results have been like if everything hadn't gone right?

It would been less but not by a huge amount. Prize money for the league Cup was feck all and a lot of prize money from the cup would go to things like player bonuses, travel to the Cup Final, hotel for a couple of nights, suits for the squad, etc. Also I assume the fees for Coleman would not be included in those figures as that all happened the season before.

[sligoman]

Dodge, you seem to be a wee bit suspicious of us, any chance you'd offer your opinion on how we're paying them so?
Also I assume the fees for Coleman would not be included in those figures as that all happened the season before.Think he's on about the fella Shams gave us for free and we made a profit on, Almond was his name I think. Also, some of the Coleman add-on's would have come in 2010.

[poster]

I'd say thats a load of ********, not **** stirring but I'd say you'll be in trouble within 2 years....

http://static.lulu.com/product/paperback/throwing-stones-in-glass-houses/209295/thumbnail/320

[northwestexile]

"When the FAI took over its running four years ago, the combined debt of the clubs was a staggering €7.5m. This has been reduced to a manageable €900,000, with 11 clubs recording a profit from last year's activities, and a further six clubs recording losses of less than €20,000.
These figures come from the audited accounts presented to the FAI, and show also that very little is owed to the Revenue Commissioners -- between €200,000 and €300,000. In fact, the clubs' finances have gradually been put into shape through the Club Licensing Agreement, with the cost-base reducing yearly."

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/demise-of-fingal-must-serve-as-warning-to-others-2558011.html
Above quote from an article in the Independent by Sean Ryan. Seems to back up the claim made above.

[Red4Eva]

Our Turnover was approx. €1,250,000. We spent under 50% of that on players wages. We have 480 members in 400 club contributing €20/month. We have a car park and astro turf pitch bringing money in every week. We always have a very small squad (in the cup final we had 2 keepers, a kid and an A team player who never played senior football on the bench). Money from Seamie, Amond and Everton friendly.

[Rasputin]

A 65k profit in a year when you won both cups, finished third in the league and sold a player for a decent fee... what would the results have been like if everything hadn't gone right?
The FAI owe us (no sniggering down the back) a 6 figure sum, now take into account what we owe the FAI and all other deductions I think the actual figure we are owed by the FAI is 120,000.
So combine that with the 65k, we made a healthy profit.
Like Rovers fans were on here saying, we were never offering silly money to players like Shams or Bohs.
Alot of the squad were fulltime training but in no way is that comparable to say Drogs, Cork or Bohs "fulltime model".
We have seen our accounts at the AGM, they are not secret.
So plenty of laughs at Shams fans saying our financial health is bull****, how much debt did yee make last season again?
Also could the Shams fans on here crying hysterically about some bogus "financial investigation" into our finances a few months ago tell us when this "investigation" will be published?
Will it be published about the time your debts reach 1 million, not far off it now are yee?

[Rasputin]

Our Turnover was approx. €1,250,000. We spent under 50% of that on players wages. We have 480 members in 400 club contributing €20/month. We have a car park and astro turf pitch bringing money in every week. We always have a very small squad (in the cup final we had 2 keepers, a kid and an A team player who never played senior football on the bench). Money from Seamie, Amond and Everton friendly.
Thats not even taking into account the famous Rovers lotto that has raised alot of money for the club.
The sponsorship deals and fundraising from the club, to the trust to even FR.
The fact that so much of day to day work is done by volunteers, I.E. the Showgrounds tidy up or painting the dressing rooms etc.
Anyways the figures are in black and white in our accounts, so let Shams fans paw themselves over their fantasy investigations on the always-ultras forum while their debt mounts, how many players in their "part-time" squad again?

[Dodge]

Lads I know how much you're paying some of your players, and you're living in dream world if you think you only spent €600k on wages.

Even pretending that you made a profit this year (based on fees for Amond, the Everton friendly & prize money).

What happens this year without the fees and with drastically reduced prize money?

[Nesta99]

If you were to believe the Spews of the World Ndo is the League's top earner on 36k pa....

[Macy]

Above quote from an article in the Independent by Sean Ryan. Seems to back up the claim made above.
That €900,000 can't possibily be right? Sure some clubs have debt more than that on their own.

[Red Army]

Dodge how do you know how much we are paying players? Because I can grantee you don't.

[L.T.F.C.]

Dodge how do you know how much we are paying players? Because I can grantee you don't.
And that is a better grantee you'll get anywhere else!

[Dodge]

Dodge how do you know how much we are paying players? Because I can grantee you don't.

I know some of your players. I even highlighted the some bit for you. But if you can guarantee I don't, then so be it


That €900,000 can't possibily be right? Sure some clubs have debt more than that on their own.

Bohs is in the millions anyway


Dodge, you seem to be a wee bit suspicious of us, any chance you'd offer your opinion on how we're paying them so?

Sorry Sligo man, missed this earlier. I haev no clue how you're doing it, thats why I asked.

[Nesta99]

Upon opening this thread I didnt realise that I was setting Sligo up to be the next Bohs, Drogs, SF, etc as the next club to have the finger pointed at regarding possible overspending. I hope this thread will not be another that down the line will be quoted back showing fans heads in the sand syndrome!!

[Red Army]

I love when people come out with I know x and he told me how much he is on... players will always say they are on a bit more then they are when talking to ex employers or future employers. Unless you can back up what your saying with some proof then its clear your talking s*ite. To answer your question on how we are doing it? Loads of hard work behind the scenes by some really committed people. I'm sure most clubs are the same. Do you think we are just relying on attendances

[Red Army]

Far from over spending nesta99 when the reason Boco wasn't signed was only a couple of hundred a week. The club have a modest budget and won't break it.

[Nesta99]

Wasnt saying you are overspending Red i was observing the possibility that Sligo have replaced other clubs as the Foot.ie club of concern ;p

[poster]

Far from over spending nesta99 when the reason Boco wasn't signed was only a couple of hundred a week.

It was also the reason Mr.s Brennan, Quigley, Byrne, Powell and others weren't signed.

[Dodge]

I love when people come out with I know x and he told me how much he is on... players will always say they are on a bit more then they are when talking to ex employers or future employers.
I'm not a past or future employer.


Unless you can back up what your saying with some proof then its clear your talking s*ite.
No, its clear you disagree. Why would the players concerned lie to me? I've no vested interest


Do you think we are just relying on attendances
Of course not. but its a small enough starting point for you 1.2 million turnover

[Macy]

Bohs is in the millions anyway
That's what I figured, and while they may be the biggest, they're not alone with accumulated debt - I can only assume they mean losses rather than debt (whether it's spin or just a mistake is a different question).

btw You'd have to be nuts, or a very recent convert to the LoI, not to be skeptical about Sligo (whether it's fair or not!).

[poster]

No, its clear you disagree. Why would the players concerned lie to me? I've no vested interest


"Sligo are offering me €4,000 a week and another €5,000 if I turn up for training. Spread the word, maybe Pat's might up the offer"

[Dodge]

"Sligo are offering me €4,000 a week and another €5,000 if I turn up for training. Spread the word, maybe Pat's might up the offer"
The players are already Sligo players (and happy there). YOu don't think I've any influence on who Pats try and sign, do you?

[poster]

God no, I was having a joke Dodge.

[dublinred]

Cool we have hit the bigtime at last , only reason we are been noticed is that most of the overspending clubs are now in the first division or just promoted from it , seen the source article in the News of World yesterday and it mentioned that via 400club,lotto and sponsorhip we bring in 7.5k a week before gate receipts are even taken into account . Would be reasonably happy with our spending and people in charge and FAI are watching closely as well it also helps that we don't have to pay rent or a mortgage for our ground.

[L.T.F.C.]

Cool we have hit the bigtime at last , only reason we are been noticed is that most of the overspending clubs are now in the first division or just promoted from it , seen the source article in the News of World yesterday and it mentioned that via 400club,lotto and sponsorhip we bring in 7.5k a week before gate receipts are even taken into account . Would be reasonably happy with our spending and people in charge and FAI are watching closely as well it also helps that we don't have to pay rent or a mortgage for our ground.

Do you own the Showgrounds? And does the 400 Club pay for the weekly expenses, or is it servicing the debt if any?

[pineapple stu]

seen the source article in the News of World yesterday and it mentioned that via 400club,lotto and sponsorhip we bring in 7.5k a week before gate receipts are even taken into account .
Fairly impressive stat, in fairness.

But just cos I know someone else will do this, if you take an average gate of 1700 @ E10 a head and 26 home games over the year (one every other week), that's E8.5k in gate receipts a week on average. Add that to the E7.5k a week you mention and that's E16k a week, or E832k for the year. So roughly E400k gate receipts, E400k lotto/sponsorship/400 club/etc, but still E400k of the E1.2m mentioned earlier (and I've no idea if that's accurate)

[passinginterest]

I give it a week before there's a poorly observed Sligo Rovers boycott of foot.ie.

[Jofspring]

So who are the possible 11 clubs that made a profit?

Most Likely:
Shamrock Rovers
Sligo Rovers
Dundalk
Cork City
Derry City
Monaghan Utd
Limerick FC
Shelbourne FC
Finn Harps
Athlone Town
Longford Town

Possible:
Bray Wanderers?
Waterford Utd?
Wexford Youths?
Mervue Utd (presuming cause they are amateur they may have made a small profit)
Salthill (presuming cause they are totally amateur they may have made a small profit)

Didn't:
St. Pats
Bohs
Sporting Fingal
Drogheda
Galway Utd
UCD

[Rasputin]

Do you own the Showgrounds? And does the 400 Club pay for the weekly expenses, or is it servicing the debt if any?
The Showgies is owned in trust of the people of sligo town as far as I know.
As in the club technically does not own the ground so it can never be sold.
Now im not 100% sure about that, not big into land law tbh.

[Rasputin]

Fairly impressive stat, in fairness.

But just cos I know someone else will do this, if you take an average gate of 1700 @ E10 a head and 26 home games over the year (one every other week), that's E8.5k in gate receipts a week on average. Add that to the E7.5k a week you mention and that's E16k a week, or E832k for the year. So roughly E400k gate receipts, E400k lotto/sponsorship/400 club/etc, but still E400k of the E1.2m mentioned earlier (and I've no idea if that's accurate)
A showpiece friendly which we have about once a season, good cup runs in the FAI Cup, LC and Setanta, the car park, the super reds for kids, telly income, prize money, renting the astro-turf pitchs, selling players, merchandise, programs and other club productions such as the very successfull DVD released, the new credit card scheme, supporters renting out houses to players for next to nothing as insentives and numerous other stuff like getting free goals from the phone network 3 for fans switching to their network etc etc.
It all adds up and like what was said all our accounts are laid bare at our AGM's because we are a members run club.
None of it is secret.
So unless someone can point out where we are making a loss or any actual evidence of our financial instability it really would be enlightening because as of now all we have is groundless accusations that are more at home on the always-ultra forum.
And again I ask the shams fans when this alleged "financial investigation" into our finances are going to be published?

[Sam_Heggy]

So who are the possible 11 clubs that made a profit?

Most Likely:
Shamrock Rovers
Sligo Rovers
Dundalk
Cork City
Derry City
Monaghan Utd
Limerick FC
Shelbourne FC

Possible:
Bray Wanderers?
St. Pats?
UCD?
Athlone Town?
Finn Harps?
Waterford Utd?
Longford?
Wexford Youths?
Mervue Utd (presuming cause they are amateur they may have made a small profit)
Salthill (presuming cause they are totally amateur they may have made a small profit)

Didn't:
Bohs
Sporting Fingal
Drogheda
Galway Utd

Harps made a profit last season. Only €11k but still a profit.

Plus, that €900k debts must surely be missing a zero?