Club Finances

[Red4Eva]

You're coming across as very bitter, jealous and childish in this thread Dodge.

[brianw82]

A showpiece friendly which we have about once a season, good cup runs in the FAI Cup, LC and Setanta, the car park, the super reds for kids, telly income, prize money, renting the astro-turf pitchs, selling players, merchandise, programs and other club productions such as the very successfull DVD released, the new credit card scheme, supporters renting out houses to players for next to nothing as insentives and numerous other stuff like getting free goals from the phone network 3 for fans switching to their network etc etc.
It all adds up and like what was said all our accounts are laid bare at our AGM's because we are a members run club.
None of it is secret.
So unless someone can point out where we are making a loss or any actual evidence of our financial instability it really would be enlightening because as of now all we have is groundless accusations that are more at home on the always-ultra forum.
And again I ask the shams fans when this alleged "financial investigation" into our finances are going to be published?

I genuinely hope all is well with my hometown club, but let's face it - it's the LOI. It's Ireland. There's always a lesson that hasn't been learned, there's always a brown envelope, there's always a blind eye turned, there's always the 'shure, we'll be alright on the night' mentality that is just so hard to shake off. I think this is where the questions are coming from. We've all seen this happen so many times before that the idea of a club in no apparent financial difficulties is just hard to accept.

[Red Army]

The Showgrounds is owned in trust for Rovers by the people of Sligo. There is a dept but its a internal one and isn't much left on it I reckon 18 months we'll have it paid off fully. The 400 is for the day to day running of the club, we also have the astro turf pitch which brings in a weekly income along with fundraisers throughout the season. Since the club became a co op in 1988 we have never been in such a solid financial state.

[Rasputin]

I genuinely hope all is well with my hometown club, but let's face it - it's the LOI. It's Ireland. There's always a lesson that hasn't been learned, there's always a brown envelope, there's always a blind eye turned, there's always the 'shure, we'll be alright on the night' mentality that is just so hard to shake off. I think this is where the questions are coming from. We've all seen this happen so many times before that the idea of a club in no apparent financial difficulties is just hard to accept.
Oh I can understand completely where alot of the fans reservations are coming from (bar Shams fans who just concoct blatant lies) but all the evidence I have seen would suggest we are in a solid financial footing.
As for all the other clubs that you say had "no apparent financial difficulties", well from what I saw we all knew Sporting Franchise was just another Dublin City, it was not a viable enterprise because it was being bankrolled by Gannon, Bohs whole collapse stemmed directly from the financial property bubble collapsing but we are not mortgaging our ground, Drogs also had big money men behind them in an unsustainable affair which we do not, Cork was showing accumulated defecits for a few years if im not mistaken and I havent got a clue what was known about Derrys financial dealings but none of them were sustainable models hence why they collapsed, we dont have any of those models.
Like I have said repeatedly, the accounts were shown to the members, we have nothing to hide and unless some evidence can be garnered saying the opposite to that then my opinion wont be changed.

[PartySaint]

So who are the possible 11 clubs that made a profit?

Most Likely:
Shamrock Rovers
Sligo Rovers
Dundalk
Cork City
Derry City
Monaghan Utd
Limerick FC
Shelbourne FC

Possible:
Bray Wanderers?
St. Pats?
UCD?
Athlone Town?
Finn Harps?
Waterford Utd?
Longford?
Wexford Youths?
Mervue Utd (presuming cause they are amateur they may have made a small profit)
Salthill (presuming cause they are totally amateur they may have made a small profit)

Didn't:
Bohs
Sporting Fingal
Drogheda
Galway Utd

You can take us off the possible list, we did not make a profit last year

[shantykelly]

dublin city
shels
drogheda
cork city
derry city
bohs
sporting fingal
galway utd

all these clubs have screwed up off the field, and even sligo posted trouble in the recent past. on foot.ie, the common denominator amongst posters from each of these clubs has been 'nothing to see here'. hell, i've been guilty of it myself. excuse the cynicism and spare the righteous indignation if it seems to be happening again. yes, there may not be any evidence either way, but with the nature of the LoI, history has shown that it's usually a better bet to expect the worse. i don't think anyone is hoping or wishing for sligo to have financial bother, but we'll wait and see how the season runs for a bit first.

[SkStu]

but i think the difference here is that any accusations against Sligo seemed to be based on a hunch or based on player hearsay type stuff as opposed to anything substantial. Its all a bit ridiculous if you aske me.

[L.T.F.C.]

Think we made €4k last year.

[shantykelly]

agree stu, can't see any basis for it myself. but then, those amongst the derry fans who warned of trouble were repeatedly shouted down and ostracised. I've learned to be overly skeptical of defensive arguments and statements from clubs and fans. bit harsh yes, but the LoI clubs have form for screwing things up, sometimes quite quickly.

[HulaHoop]

Attn Rasputin: The rumours of the FAI investigating Sligo for alleged under the table payments to players first surfaced on the Bohs forum, not from Rovers fans.

http://www.thebohs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15031

[Sean South]

Fairly impressive stat, in fairness.

But just cos I know someone else will do this, if you take an average gate of 1700 @ E10 a head and 26 home games over the year (one every other week), that's E8.5k in gate receipts a week on average. Add that to the E7.5k a week you mention and that's E16k a week, or E832k for the year. So roughly E400k gate receipts, E400k lotto/sponsorship/400 club/etc, but still E400k of the E1.2m mentioned earlier (and I've no idea if that's accurate)
It's all broke down in black and white in our accounts there is nothing murky about it if that's what your suggesting.

You're coming across as very bitter, jealous and childish in this thread Dodge.
I think the term is complete zoomer. He's normally sniffing the a*se of his buddies in always ultra so no surprise.


but i think the difference here is that any accusations against Sligo seemed to be based on a hunch or based on player hearsay type stuff as opposed to anything substantial. Its all a bit ridiculous if you aske me.
Every club in the league is never to far away from a financial crisis thankfully we are finally on top of things. Having seen what Shams submitted to the FAI I think they should be most worried about over spending this year.

[SkStu]

Attn Rasputin: The rumours of the FAI investigating Sligo for alleged under the table payments to players first surfaced on the Bohs forum, not from Rovers fans.

http://www.thebohs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15031

is that the sort of stuff "the Whistleblower" bases all his intel on? LOL...

what a bunch of auld biddies.

[atfconline]

We supposedly made a profit in the region of 8 or 9 grand.

[Dave_SRFC]

I'd say the likes of Sligo have been watching what Bohs have been getting away with or with what the FAI have chosen to ignore, get yourself an imaginative accountant and hey presto there's nothing to see here sure we made a profit this year...here's the raffle ticket stubbs we used as away tickets...

is that the sort of stuff "the Whistleblower" bases all his intel on? LOL...

what a bunch of auld biddies.

[Red4Eva]

I'd say the likes of Shams have been watching what Bohs have been getting away with or with what the FAI have chosen to ignore, get yourself an imaginative accountant and hey presto there's nothing to see here sure we made a profit this year

[dong]

There's a lot of heads burried in sand on this thread.

[horton]

Red4Eva, why did you just copy exactly what Dave_SFRC wrote?:confused:

[Red4Eva]

Because he made a baseless statement about my club that could apply to any club

[legendz]

I thought Fran Gavin defended the league well on the news. While there is obvious criticisms, it's a fair point many businesses had problems last year. Reports suggest the overall debts of clubs has come down a lot over the last few years. Shamrock Rovers say they have a strict wage structure in place. Maybe the league could be near turning a corner on the finance side and stabalise?

[Dodge]

You're coming across as very bitter, jealous and childish in this thread Dodge.

I can be all 3, and more, at various stages. In this case I'm not at all bitter. Why would I be? I've always liked Sligo and they've never really done anything to **** me off (and they'll always get kudos for the wws banner shortly after his passing). Jealous of you winning a few cups, obviously but that'll pass.




I think the term is complete zoomer. He's normally sniffing the a*se of his buddies in always ultra so no surprise.


I've no idea what this means.

[osarusan]

Reports suggest the overall debts of clubs has come down a lot over the last few years.
Apart from the FAI report, what others are you talking about?

[HulaHoop]

Red4Eva, why did you just copy exactly what Dave_SFRC wrote?:confused:

He didn't, he left the bit out about raffle tickets. As long as Sligo continue to use raffle tickets as match tickets, have no turnstiles at the away end, routinely under report attendances (deny all you like Sligo fans but most of you admitted here the day after the game there was way more in attendance at the LC semi than was officially announced), pay players cash lump sum payments (as evidenced with the Chris Turner case) and have on paper more expensive squads than the likes of Pats and Dundalk (who are clubs with similar attendances. Dundalk also have substantial off field revenues too) then there is always going to be a perception that something dodgy is going on. Hopefully that is not the case and everything is above board but we have seen it all to often in this league and in every case fans of the clubs in question always fervently denied anything was wrong.

[Red4Eva]

There was an investigation into the Turner lump payment? What happened as a result of the investigation?

The gate you were put through is not the away end, it's the car park. You are the only club that has to enter that way. All other clubs enter through the away turnstile beside the home turnstiles.

The attendance figure that ye keep going on about was a rough estimate in the press box. FAI officials and Shamrock Rovers officials were located at the turnstiles with clickers ensuring Shamrock Rovers got there fair share of the gate. There was no investigation or complaint made by Shamrock Rovers.

Do you have access to these official attendance figures that we report to FAI?

The raffle ticket situation was stupid and unprofessional. Our general manager Packie Lynch has said he will be addressing this.

[MMVIII]

I can be all 3, and more, at various stages. In this case I'm not at all bitter. Why would I be? I've always liked Sligo and they've never really done anything to **** me off (and they'll always get kudos for the wws banner shortly after his passing). Jealous of you winning a few cups, obviously but that'll pass.





I've no idea what this means.

Honestly would you ever simply f off. Do you just simply want another LOI club to go out of business just so you can ride on in with your, know it all facts about where clubs went wrong and so on?

Accept it buddy, we made a healthy profit last year. Your absolute nonense about knowing players and how much their on is laughable. Considering I know for a fact, players like Richie Ryan were on a terribly low wage at the start of the 2010 season and not much more than that at the end of it. To be full time, doesn't necessairly mean you HAVE to be on a massive wage. Pretty laughable as well considering you had players like Gary Dempsey in or around 2000 a week LOL. Sustainable aye?

Its not a secret, plenty of Rovers fans have seen the accounts. Its been explained numerous times on this thread by numerous "in the know" people. You buddy, are certainly not one of them. Get over it, our finances are not simply based on one big sugar daddy or based on Champions league qualification like plenty of car crash clubs in the past. We have an infastrucre in place that other clubs can only dream off.

[Nesta99]

Selective Interpretation - No €172,000 profit in 2010!!

Unfortunately the quote attributed to Noel Mooney of the FAI is way off the mark for the financial performance for Dundalk FC in 2010 and uses very selective interpretation of the accounts to arrive at that figure as a "profit".

The club did turn in a modest profit last season, which was much needed and very welcome due to the accumulated losses from the previous season. While this has helped to reduce the overall debt, it went nowhere near making the substantial reduction in debt that we need.

When looking at the 2011 season, the concern from 2010 was that if the income from Europe was stripped out, there would actually have been a further loss recorded. Put another way, with no Europa League in 2011, if we repeated the same income and spending as last year we would make a further loss this year.

As anyone who has read Gerry Matthews Q & A with Gavin McLoughlin in the Democrat will realise ( http://blackandwhitetown.squarespace.com/ ) there is a strong ambition to try to drive the club forward on the pitch this season, with a burning desire to qualify for Europe again and to be in contention at the top end of the league


We were delighted to get into Europe and we want to get back into Europe. That would be the ambition.


This, along with some other positive indicators, has given the club the encouragement to substantially increase the playing budget over what was originally proposed. This will require major efforts by all supporters, club volunteers, club staff and the wider business community to try to make the books balance this season.

Any role that any individual can play - be it buying a season ticket. Buying or selling the lotto, joining the Patron Scheme, encouraging others to come to games, selling & returning the Champions League Ticket books etc are absolutely vital.

Further on-field success in the Setanta Sports Cup would help as well!

[bullit]

I would very much call into doubt the numbers that DundalkFC gave tonight as the official attendance for the Setanta Cup match.....2250.
Maybe thats the figure that was given to the the BBC, but it was at the least 700/1000 more !! The place was chocker,call it right or dont call it at all is todays lesson !!

[Spudulika]

I would very much call into doubt the numbers that DundalkFC gave tonight as the official attendance for the Setanta Cup match.....2250.
Maybe thats the figure that was given to the the BBC, but it was at the least 700/1000 more !! The place was chocker,call it right or dont call it at all is todays lesson !!

Shocker - clubs under reporting crowds numbers..... :-) Goes down to incompetency, lots of freebies handed out, or making sure there's a few extra quid left on the side for contingencies.

[Rasputin]

Attn Rasputin: The rumours of the FAI investigating Sligo for alleged under the table payments to players first surfaced on the Bohs forum, not from Rovers fans.

http://www.thebohs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=15031
Haha wow, just wow.
So is this where Shams fans get their "inside sources" from? From the Bohs forum?
It was only a few months ago that your lot were screaming hysterically about this "financial investigation"?
Now the only Shams fan that actually responds to what was self evidently more pig**** concocted by your lot blames it on Bohs fans?
What happened to these "inside sources"HulaHoop?

[Rasputin]

I'd say the likes of Sligo have been watching what Bohs have been getting away with or with what the FAI have chosen to ignore, get yourself an imaginative accountant and hey presto there's nothing to see here sure we made a profit this year...here's the raffle ticket stubbs we used as away tickets...
Like I have repeated again and again, if there is any evidence of our financial instability please provide it?

[Macy]

It's like stepping back 6 or 7 years to Shels fans...

[pineapple stu]

So who are the possible 11 clubs that made a profit?

Possible:
UCD?

We made a decent loss last year AFAIK; the college turned around after the season started and said we wouldn't be getting what they said we'd be getting. So this year, we've to make that back twice (once for this year's cut, once for last year's cut), which is why we've no money.

[pineapple stu]

Also, can Sligo fans in particular (far from all of them, it must be said) actually argue points like mentally capable people and give the crap like "He's normally sniffing the a*se of his buddies", "You're coming across as very bitter, jealous and childish" and "Oh and a zoomer means your to be an overall f-ing arsehole" a rest? Attack the posts, not the poster or the thread will be locked.

[Rasputin]

He didn't, he left the bit out about raffle tickets. As long as Sligo continue to use raffle tickets as match tickets,
Yes we didnt have tickets for yee, jesus christ boo hoo.
Would you count that as evidence of our financial instability?

have no turnstiles at the away end,
Thats not the away end, its the entrance for the car park.
The reason yee were put through that end (and nobody else) is because your fans cannot be trusted to be put through the away turnstyle because of your long and distinguished history of handbag hooliganism.
Who knows maybe there could of been a "mob" of teenage girls the danny dyer wannabes could get pwapa nawty with or maybe some Africans might have the misfortune of crossing paths with your oh so racially tolerant lot.

routinely under report attendances (deny all you like Sligo fans but most of you admitted here the day after the game there was way more in attendance at the LC semi than was officially announced),
The only game im aware of that was done was the Shams LC semi.
Every other game it was within the margin of error.
Anyways as Red4Eva has pointed out the whole hysterical hysteria about the unreported attendance was irrelevant seeing as Shams and the FAI had counters at the gates.
Also the official attendances are never reported by the club to the public, only to the FAI.

pay players cash lump sum payments (as evidenced with the Chris Turner case)
Sorry what?
Could you please expand on this like a good lad?

and have on paper more expensive squads than the likes of Pats
I could be wrong but are Pats not still stuck with a sizeable debt from the past few years that they have to pay back?
So you do understand the concept behind paying back debt, I know as a club Shams are a bit hazy on such a topic but the rest of us dont get a free ride.
Also we get higher gates than Pats.

and Dundalk (who are clubs with similar attendances. Dundalk also have substantial off field revenues too)
Has Dundalk not invested substantial money into infrastructure over the past years?
Could that not explain why we might have a bigger budget?
Also the differences between the wages in our respective clubs is marginal IMO.

then there is always going to be a perception that something dodgy is going on.
Not really, its fairly self evident where this perception comes from.
From Shams fans own self inflated importance that they are "the model club" and anyone that challenges their fabricated reality must automatically be at dodgey dealing.
Now make no mistake, if it was Dundalk or Pats who won the League Cup and FAI Cup knocking out Shams along the way IN BOTH COMPETITIONS you would be hearing the exact same spurious bull**** from Shams fans who have a very limited memory span or are merely just the bandwagon jumpers.

Hopefully that is not the case and everything is above board but we have seen it all to often in this league and in every case fans of the clubs in question always fervently denied anything was wrong.
Like I said the accounts were laid out to the fans, we are not run by a closed shop we are a members run club, a hell of alot longer than Shams.
We have seen the figures, our players have been paid in full and on time, our suppliers are paid and the infrastrucural development of the Showgies is improving every season.
If we were indeed in financial instability then the ugly face of debts and creditors would be showing their face and Sligo is a small enough place where people would know.
All of this is based on circumstantial petty ****e like lotto tickets, there is no evidence of our financial instability.
Now if I thought for a second our club was mounting debt and heading to economic oblivion I would be the first to shout stop because I know unlike Shams we are not the FAI's pet frankenstein, we as a club honour our debts, unlike some.

[horton]

This is starting to turn into the Bohs thread! *Grabs popcorn*

[Red Army]

We'll we aren't going to post up our accounts and figures on this site it for members eyes only so there is nothing to discuss. it's people from other clubs posting up rumours with no backup or evidence

[Dodge]

it's people from other clubs posting up rumours with no backup or evidence

What rumours were posted?

[Rasputin]

What rumours were posted?
This "financial investigation" the Shams fans got wind of from their "inside sources"?

[Dodge]

Yeah, sorry I thought he was talking about 'new' rumours.

[Schumi]

Reports suggest the overall debts of clubs has come down a lot over the last few years.
Because lots of indebted clubs have either gone out of business or written debts off in examinership.

[micls]

Because lots of indebted clubs have either gone out of business or written debts off in examinership.

Or, if you're really cool, both.

[HulaHoop]

This "financial investigation" the Shams fans got wind of from their "inside sources"?

Once again Rasputin, this rumour initally came from the Bohs forum but do carry on with the story it suits you to believe.

[Dave_SRFC]

Yes we didnt have tickets for yee, jesus christ boo hoo.
Would you count that as evidence of our financial instability?

Thats not the away end, its the entrance for the car park.
The reason yee were put through that end (and nobody else) is because your fans cannot be trusted to be put through the away turnstyle because of your long and distinguished history of handbag hooliganism.
Who knows maybe there could of been a "mob" of teenage girls the danny dyer wannabes could get pwapa nawty with or maybe some Africans might have the misfortune of crossing paths with your oh so racially tolerant lot.

The only game im aware of that was done was the Shams LC semi.
Every other game it was within the margin of error.
Anyways as Red4Eva has pointed out the whole hysterical hysteria about the unreported attendance was irrelevant seeing as Shams and the FAI had counters at the gates.
Also the official attendances are never reported by the club to the public, only to the FAI.

Sorry what?
Could you please expand on this like a good lad?

I could be wrong but are Pats not still stuck with a sizeable debt from the past few years that they have to pay back?
So you do understand the concept behind paying back debt, I know as a club Shams are a bit hazy on such a topic but the rest of us dont get a free ride.
Also we get higher gates than Pats.

Has Dundalk not invested substantial money into infrastructure over the past years?
Could that not explain why we might have a bigger budget?
Also the differences between the wages in our respective clubs is marginal IMO.

Not really, its fairly self evident where this perception comes from.
From Shams fans own self inflated importance that they are "the model club" and anyone that challenges their fabricated reality must automatically be at dodgey dealing.
Now make no mistake, if it was Dundalk or Pats who won the League Cup and FAI Cup knocking out Shams along the way IN BOTH COMPETITIONS you would be hearing the exact same spurious bull**** from Shams fans who have a very limited memory span or are merely just the bandwagon jumpers.

Like I said the accounts were laid out to the fans, we are not run by a closed shop we are a members run club, a hell of alot longer than Shams.
We have seen the figures, our players have been paid in full and on time, our suppliers are paid and the infrastrucural development of the Showgies is improving every season.
If we were indeed in financial instability then the ugly face of debts and creditors would be showing their face and Sligo is a small enough place where people would know.
All of this is based on circumstantial petty ****e like lotto tickets, there is no evidence of our financial instability.
Now if I thought for a second our club was mounting debt and heading to economic oblivion I would be the first to shout stop because I know unlike Shams we are not the FAI's pet frankenstein, we as a club honour our debts, unlike some.

All lies and wishful thinking I'd say...

[pineapple stu]

Have you anything actually constructive to add? Otherwise, you're just trolling.

[dong]

It's like stepping back 6 or 7 years to Shels fans...

Like I said, it's head beneath the sand time.
Couldn't possibly be anything dodgy going on at my LoI club.:D

[SkStu]

wouldnt this thread be better off locked. It started off as a (sort of) celebration of some clubs seemingly doing things the right way and has quickly descended into a Sligo-bashing exercise for no real reason that i can see. I say lock it or change it into a sligo finances thread based on nothing.

The start of the (real) silly-season cant come fast enough!

[A face]

wouldnt this thread be better off locked. It started off as a (sort of) celebration of some clubs seemingly doing things the right way and has quickly descended into a Sligo-bashing exercise for no real reason that i can see. I say lock it or change it into a sligo finances thread based on nothing.

The start of the (real) silly-season cant come fast enough!

Yeah, gonna lock it now. If anyone has any issues with it then post something in the support forum.