View Full Version : Limerick's Licence And The Level Playing Field That Is The League Of Ireland
Lim till i die
15/02/2011, 3:39 PM
according the the star newspaper the FAI want pat o sullivan to pay E220,000 to cover this up coming seasons cost to run the club.
Took this from our own forum as I think it needs a bigger audience.
Would I be correct in thinking that this is a bit, erm, scandalous??
Wouldn't take a genius to figure out the FAI's motivation here either.
Some worried people in Abbotstown??
Longfordian
15/02/2011, 4:00 PM
You can be sure they didn't ask anyone else to pay that kind of money up front. What's their supposed justification for this?
Lim till i die
15/02/2011, 4:02 PM
They want Pat O'Sullivan and his pesky court case to go away??
Would any other club in the country be expected/able to come up with even a tenth of that at four days notice??
I'm guessing that Limerick's projected outgoings aren't met by their projected income and that O'Sullivan has indicated he'll cover the difference. But the FAI (perhaps because of the Arkaga and maybe Sporting Fingal thing) want the money up front.
I'm sure you could pick holes or potential holes in most clubs' projections if you wanted to and of course the above is utter guesswork.
Longfordian
15/02/2011, 4:06 PM
I know that's their real motivation, I was just wondering what was the "official" reason? Scandalous stuff but not unexpected.
Lim till i die
15/02/2011, 4:14 PM
I'm guessing that Limerick's projected outgoings aren't met by their projected income and that O'Sullivan has indicated he'll cover the difference. But the FAI (perhaps because of the Arkaga and maybe Sporting Fingal thing) want the money up front.
Bohs and Drogheda (despite clear evidence that they are ran by clowns) are all systems go for the Premier but Limerick (easily one of the best run clubs in the country) have to stump up six figures in four days to play in the First Division.
I was just wondering what was the "official" reason?
Maybe it's something along the lines of what Mr. A says. It's drivel anyway.
Bohs and Drogheda (despite clear evidence that they are ran by clowns).
exclusive picture of our loan interview with Zurich Bank.
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/593C13B8-648D-43C6-9AE0-7EAE773C92E3/NT5473417.jpg
Spudulika
15/02/2011, 4:32 PM
You were warned, offend the mighty mandarins of Abbottstown at your peril! Next you'll have Stephen McGuinness coming down to tell you the exact space allotted to each players separate buttock on the changing room benches are inadequate and he'll call down the media to note his outrage. Shame!
thomas72
15/02/2011, 4:44 PM
the FAI are a **** disgrace how in the name of jesus do they expect a first division club (limerick) with home gates of 5 to 600 people to pay 220,000 in four days its actually comicial there will be no clubs left in the LOI if they keep this fck acting up.
Bohs and Drogheda (despite clear evidence that they are ran by clowns) are all systems go for the Premier but Limerick (easily one of the best run clubs in the country) have to stump up six figures in four days to play in the First Division
If you're projecting an operating deficit of €220k in the first division than you're not 'easily one of the best run clubs in the country'
Is it some sort of bond or actually hard cash?
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 4:49 PM
the FAI are a **** disgrace how in the name of jesus do they expect a first division club (limerick) with home gates of 5 to 600 people to pay 220,000 in four days its actually comicial there will be no clubs left in the LOI if they keep this fck acting up.
Maybe thats the point of them asking, and what the FAI would prefer is for Limerick to come back with what would be considered a more reasonable and manageable budget. I wouldn't doubt for a second that the FAI's motivation for stringence is based on what has happened over the friendly, which is of course wrong. But at the same time, what they are saying may well be correct even if their heart is in the wrong place. Should a verbal guarantee from an individual to cover 220000 euro (a very large amount of money for those of you from Cork who aren't really able to count) really hold any weight in the licencing process? Granted, nothing official with any detail has been released as to the FAI's reasoning behind it.
Lim till i die
15/02/2011, 4:49 PM
My understanding is tis the WHOLE expenditure side they want upfront Dodge, not the projected deficit.
EDIT: Also Dodge, if there is a budget deficit (you know as much about the actual details of the clubs budget as I do) that Pat has agreed to put up money for, I'd be almost certain it's for off the field stuff like the prison project, all the community work, the free Academy places, the college bursaries blah blah blah. He's not in the business of paying big money out on players.
Much to my disgust. :)
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 4:50 PM
My understanding is tis the WHOLE expenditure side they want upfront Dodge, not the projected deficit.
I doubt that is the case. If it is the case it is lunacy beyond belief. But I doubt it to be the case.
Lim till i die
15/02/2011, 4:53 PM
Doubt away, tis my understanding.
While the basic facts of the story are correct, The Stars figures are plucked out of the sky aswell.
... Next you'll have Stephen McGuinness coming down to tell you the exact space allotted to each players separate buttock on the changing room benches are inadequate ...
Have you been in the dressing rooms in Jackman Park ... you couldnt fit 1 cheek each of a full squad on the benches at the same time.
Spudulika
15/02/2011, 5:25 PM
Have you been in the dressing rooms in Jackman Park ... you couldnt fit 1 cheek each of a full squad on the benches at the same time.
I have narrow swimmers hips :-)
Jofspring
15/02/2011, 5:28 PM
I prefer to say it's a cosy little dressing room that keeps the team close to build moral before a big game ash.
From what I believe the money is not the deficit but the budget for the season. If we where operating at a projected 220k deficit I would think the fai would just deny us a license flat out.
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 5:33 PM
Well its not necessarily the size of the deficit that I'd question, it could be anything in there thats incorrect. It could be the figure the Star have given for what the FAI are looking for that is incorrect. But I think we all have to be reasonable here, and accept that bearing in mind all the ridiculousness of the FAI, all their track history, that we can say with a fair decent level of confidence that they won't go quite as far as to demand the whole expenditure of a club for a season, before a cent of the income has come in.
I'd be confident enough that if there is any truth to the Star article (which there may even not be) that what has actually happened, is Limerick have quoted a deficit in their budget(whatever the figure, may not be 220K or anything like that), which this individual has said he will cover, and the FAI have told him that if he wants to guarantee that deficit, he has to do it in cold hard cash immediately, which may (even though we don't like to praise the FAI) be a little bit sensible, even if their motives are more than a little bit questionable.
Town Legend
15/02/2011, 5:35 PM
Think its about time all LOI clubs pull out of the league and set up an Independent league run by people who actually know a thing or two about football!!
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 5:39 PM
Why? Because clubs finally got punished for running their club in a reckless manner? I definitely prefer this to when clubs were allowed to do so.
Spudulika
15/02/2011, 5:42 PM
It was mentioned on another thread about central contracts. Now I know the clubs would go mental, but it would make sense, if the governing body were efficient and interested in domestic football, other than to keep their place the the UEFA and FIFA troughs.
LK37oldskool
15/02/2011, 5:43 PM
But thats just it, not all the clubs are being punished.there certainly seems to be several variations of the rule book flying about these days.
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 5:45 PM
But thats just it, not all the clubs are being punished.there certainly seems to be several variations of the rule book flying about these days.
Can you quote me some? I'd definitely agree with you if you said the rule book was wrong, because clubs like Bohs shouldn't be allowed treat everyone involved with them like dirt for a whole year and then suddenly clean themselves up for a few weeks in time for licencing, but I'd be at pains to quote a breach of licencing (other than Drogheda's stadium which can be explained at the same time) that hasn't been acted on.
Town Legend
15/02/2011, 5:46 PM
Why? Because clubs finally got punished for running their club in a reckless manner? I definitely prefer this to when clubs were allowed to do so.
Because the FAI seem to be more lenient on the bigger clubs than the smaller ones....the likes of Shels, Derry, Cork get put down to FD while Bohs get totally away with it while the likes of Galway, Kildare, Cobh are booted out of the league. The FAI is rotten to the core.
bluewhitearmy
15/02/2011, 5:50 PM
Well its not necessarily the size of the deficit that I'd question, it could be anything in there thats incorrect. It could be the figure the Star have given for what the FAI are looking for that is incorrect. But I think we all have to be reasonable here, and accept that bearing in mind all the ridiculousness of the FAI, all their track history, that we can say with a fair decent level of confidence that they won't go quite as far as to demand the whole expenditure of a club for a season, before a cent of the income has come in.
I'd be confident enough that if there is any truth to the Star article (which there may even not be) that what has actually happened, is Limerick have quoted a deficit in their budget(whatever the figure, may not be 220K or anything like that), which this individual has said he will cover, and the FAI have told him that if he wants to guarantee that deficit, he has to do it in cold hard cash immediately, which may (even though we don't like to praise the FAI) be a little bit sensible, even if their motives are more than a little bit questionable.
Course not can 100% say they wouldnt do that no chance would they do something like that sure that would be as stupid as lets say stopping one of the top teams in the world playing in this country over a made up 3rd party agreement.
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 5:50 PM
Because the FAI seem to be more lenient on the bigger clubs than the smaller ones....the likes of Shels, Derry, Cork get put down to FD while Bohs get totally away with it while the likes of Galway, Kildare, Cobh are booted out of the league. The FAI is rotten to the core.
There was no A League when Shels were relegated, I've no doubt they would have dumped us in it if there was. Derry and Cork had to form new clubs to get into the First Division (no matter what their fans will tell you), Bohs haven't gotten away with anything as such, they've just tidied up their ship in time for the 1 time in the year when the FAI bother to check up. I fully agree that the FAI need to make sure clubs are running properly all year round, and to use points deductions where this isn't the case. But Galway were booted out of the league because they had players left unpaid going into a new season, Kildare decided it wasn't worth carrying on, and Cobh were in a heap and still aren't eligible for a First Division licence 2 years on. Big clubs generally survive quicker because they have more fans to exploit to drag them out of it.
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 5:52 PM
Course not can 100% say they wouldnt do that no chance would they do something like that sure that would be as stupid as lets say stopping one of the top teams in the world playing in this country over a made up agreement.
It clearly wasn't a made up agreement. The Dublin Super Cup is evidence enough of that. The FAI were just after their own interests in that. They would have applied it to other clubs too because they need the money.
bluewhitearmy
15/02/2011, 5:55 PM
It clearly wasn't a made up agreement. The Dublin Super Cup is evidence enough of that. The FAI were just after their own interests in that. They would have applied it to other clubs too because they need the money.
Was clearly not signed at the time they stopped us so should have had nothing to do with it. Funny they couldnt show us it when asked.
Town Legend
15/02/2011, 5:56 PM
Did the FAI not drag Bohs out of it? Find it very hard to believe their fans stumped how many hundreds of thousands of euro they owed!! All you have to look at is the farce that Limerick are in at the minute. Shams get their friendly with Madrid yet the FAI cancel a big money spinner for them against Barcelona!!! And now they're witholding a licence for them going to court!! You can't come on here and say the FAI deal with all clubs fairly!! It's clear they favour the bigger clubs!
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 5:58 PM
Was clearly not signed at the time they stopped us so should have had nothing to do with it. Funny they couldnt show us it when asked.
How is it clear that it wasn't signed at the time? Perhaps I'm missing something here. As for them not showing it when asked, I'd presume its moreso to do with the fact that they knew Limerick hadn't a leg to stand on anyway because of the participation agreement.
gael353
15/02/2011, 6:01 PM
that what has actually happened, is Limerick have quoted a deficit in their budget(whatever the figure, may not be 220K or anything like that), which this individual has said he will cover, and the FAI have told him that if he wants to guarantee that deficit, he has to do it in cold hard cash immediately, which may (even though we don't like to praise the FAI) be a little bit sensible, even if their motives are more than a little bit questionable.
lol my sides. first up in licensing you cant budget for a loss as your budgets wouldnt be accepted, limerick budgets were accepted. Both Limerick Football club and before them Limerick 37 (before they ceased trading ) both recorded profits so your opinion (if it is your own :rolleyes:) is untrue. Now can you find out where they want us to stash the cash, sort code and bank details in waterford or phibsboro maybe? :cool:
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 6:03 PM
Did the FAI not drag Bohs out of it? Find it very hard to believe their fans stumped how many hundreds of thousands of euro they owed!! All you have to look at is the farce that Limerick are in at the minute. Shams get their friendly with Madrid yet the FAI cancel a big money spinner for them against Barcelona!!! And now they're witholding a licence for them going to court!! You can't come on here and say the FAI deal with all clubs fairly!! It's clear they favour the bigger clubs!
But everything you've just said there has been slanted. The FAI didn't drag Bohs out of it as such. They gave them prizemoney in advance which they've done in the past for clubs big. medium and small(where small clubs are actually eligible of course, First Division clubs never are because you have to finish a certain place in the league to actually get prizemoney). The Rovers-Real friendly and the Limerick-Barca friendly are like discussing chalk and cheese. Rovers did not organise their friendly with Real. Platinum One did. The FAI saw the commercial viability of such events and decided they wanted the whole cake, no1 else was allowed have a piece, including Shamrock Rovers. If Rovers or Platinum one tried to do the same now, the same result would have occurred. There is also very little evidence to suggest that the FAI are withholding a licence because Limerick are going to court. They're probably being vindictive because of it, but I've no doubt there is also a genuine reason they're choosing to hang them on. If Shamrock Rovers or any other big club you want to mention try take the FAI to court, I think you'll quickly find they'll get less preferential treatment too as a result.
bluewhitearmy
15/02/2011, 6:03 PM
Becuase they announced that they had signed it months after the friendly would have taken place and said that cancelling the Barca game was just a good will gesture or something like that before the deal.
They couldnt even get the attendance that wasnt allowed right.
Funny not having a leg to stand on but yet they had to agree to our terms in court.
Anyway this is nothing to do with this thread dunno why i brought it up we will let the court decide who was right with the Barca thing. Im also confident we will get our licence.
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 6:06 PM
lol my sides. first up in licensing you cant budget for a loss as your budgets wouldnt be accepted, limerick budgets were accepted. Both Limerick Football club and before them Limerick 37 (before they ceased trading ) both recorded profits so your opinion (if it is your own :rolleyes:) is untrue. Now can you find out where they want us to stash the cash, sort code and bank details in waterford or phibsboro maybe? :cool:
Do you think Fingal budgeted for an operating profit? Of course not. It was the same situation as the one I mentioned (which may not be the actual one) and we've now seen how that ended up. Clubs can budget for an operating loss as long as the cash is backed up by an individual's guarantee. The FAI don't seem to be accepting Limerick's guarantee. Limerick also made a loss last year according to all reports I've seen. I'll try find some for you if you want. If you do want me to, can you please quote me some where it says Limerick did make a profit last year and then we'll be even.
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 6:07 PM
Becuase they announced that they had signed it months after the friendly would have taken place and said that cancelling the Barca game was just a good will gesture or something like that before the deal.
They couldnt even get the attendance that wasnt allowed right.
Funny not having a leg to stand on but yet they had to agree to our terms in court.
Anyway this is nothing to do with this thread dunno why i brought it up we will let the court decide who was right with the Barca thing. Im also confident we will get our licence.
Of course you'll get your licence, and no1 is debating that Limerick were wrong in the case of the Barca friendly. I merely quoted the FAI's motives for doing it. Didn't defend them. I hate the FAI as much as the next man.
peadar1987
15/02/2011, 6:09 PM
Incidentally, what was the projected income from the Barca friendly, does anyone know?
bluewhitearmy
15/02/2011, 6:12 PM
Incidentally, what was the projected income from the Barca friendly, does anyone know?
Think i read in a paper that the club would have made 100,000. Not 100% sure on that.
peadar1987
15/02/2011, 6:14 PM
Think i read in a paper that the club would have made 100,000. Not 100% sure on that.
So the FAI and their underhandedness have a significant proportion of the blame for the €220,000 they're now demanding be stumped up by the club. *sigh*
what i would really love now is a Limerick press release akin to last years.
Loooovely!
osarusan
15/02/2011, 6:18 PM
80,000 I think.
No idea what's going on with the conditions on our licencing - if we're being asked to front up the entire lot, it's madness. If it's just that the FAI are looking for certain concrete evidence of our ability to cover any shortfall in income comapred to the budget, that's more reasonable. Though, like Dodge, I wonder what form it takes - are the FAI actually looking for funds transferred to an account? Does it remain there until the end of the season?
If I remember correctly, Arkaga were asked to provide some sort of guarantee, but in their case, when it all went horribly wrong, the money was no longer there. Maybe the FAI have decided to look for more definite evidence now. You'd think that they'd make this common knowledge prior to licencing though.
Also, I'd be surprised if Limerick were the only club with a potential deficit to be covered by a guarantee.
gael353
15/02/2011, 6:23 PM
maybe just maybe we got it all wrong and the FAI just pulled off the greatest fundraiser ever and now have 220.000 euro in their bank account :rolleyes:
CSFShels
15/02/2011, 6:24 PM
80,000 I think.
No idea what's going on with the conditions on our licencing - if we're being asked to front up the entire lot, it's madness. If it's just that the FAI are looking for certain concrete evidence of our ability to cover any shortfall in income comapred to the budget, that's more reasonable. Though, like Dodge, I wonder what form it takes - are the FAI actually looking for funds transferred to an account? Does it remain there until the end of the season?
If I remember correctly, Arkaga were asked to provide some sort of guarantee, but in their case, when it all went horribly wrong, the money was no longer there. Maybe the FAI have decided to look for more definite evidence now. You'd think that they'd make this common knowledge prior to licencing though.
Also, I'd be surprised if Limerick were the only club with a potential deficit to be covered by a guarantee.
Who else would there be at this stage?
thischarmingman
15/02/2011, 6:29 PM
If you're projecting an operating deficit of €220k in the first division than you're not 'easily one of the best run clubs in the country'
Probably in the top 3 though.
gael353
15/02/2011, 6:33 PM
Well limerick didnt budget for an opperating loss so your/abbotstowns version is null and void. and i suggest next time your down in limerick you call out to the club where we can back up everthing with a paper trail....
SwanVsDalton
15/02/2011, 6:42 PM
Well limerick didnt budget for an opperating loss so your/abbotstowns version is null and void. and i suggest next time your down in limerick you call out to the club where we can back up everthing with a paper trail....
Is it a paper trail a mile long?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Uw6d_pp-gZE/RrAlJeXyRKI/AAAAAAAAABc/QWyCqNKt9Wk/s320/Lionel%2BHutz%2Byelling.gif
MariborKev
15/02/2011, 7:31 PM
Think its about time all LOI clubs pull out of the league and set up an Independent league run by people who actually know a thing or two about football!!
The same clubs that mumbled about the P1 proposal and then didn't actual do anything about it?
Again, how exactly would you fund such an adventure?
Town Legend
15/02/2011, 7:34 PM
The same clubs that mumbled about the P1 proposal and then didn't actual do anything about it?
What I said was tongue in cheek!!!
Again, how exactly would you fund such an adventure?
I didn't say I was going to fund it!!
SwanVsDalton
15/02/2011, 7:38 PM
I didn't say I was going to fund it!!
Barstooler...
Town Legend
15/02/2011, 7:40 PM
Barstooler...
Far from it!
Spudulika
15/02/2011, 8:06 PM
I think he means a company that manufactures the magical mythical "barstooler" will fund it. This company is famous amongst the martyrs who follow LOI clubs through thick and thin, bankruptcy, double contracts, selling grounds (more than once), walking away from debts, hiring dubious characters to bring back the glory days and many other strengths that are specifically assigned to those who are determined to spend their lives in purgatory (or LOI Premier - 1st Division is officially designated the title of hell, while the A Championship is a polyp in the bowels of hell). The barstooler is the creature that all LOI martyrs will rail against, complain about, usually while standing up in club bars, as to sit down would mean becoming, well, a barstooler.
Actually somebody should run with that idea - Barstooler Ltd - never wet, never cold, always on the winning side - in the Sky Leagues.
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