View Full Version : el weekly cancelled
max power
24/05/2004, 12:36 PM
Yeah, because they were going to come out and say that they really couldn't be arsed anymore.
It is a cop out, and last season when there were no issue's over the gantry's they didn't exactly go out of their way to send camera's. All this rubbish about TV3 being great - they do it because they have to.
The roof arguement is boll0x too in Longford's case - look at the sports like golf etc where their exposed to the elements. In Flancare they could bring the equipment in through the ground, pass them on to the gantry and then climb the ladder - no issue over carrying the equipment up a ladder. No problem for Sky for the under 21 internationals, no problem for RTE for the cup semi, only a problem for a company looking for an excuse not to put on a TV show it could do without.
macy i just made a point about our ground, roof isn't a necessity just nice on a cold november night, thats all...on the ladder issue, tv 3 send one person to cover a game, not a crew like rte on they HAVE TO carry the camera in the ladder...
this has been in the national press for over a wee and no club has denied it, have they ??? there is truth in there....
A face
24/05/2004, 12:36 PM
Alright .... i am wrong .... Macy and wws should run the whole thing ... they know best. The eL advisors ..... god help us all. :eek:
TV3 dont care so thats why we wont sort out our problems.
Typical and true to form lads .... great work :D
You are both legends !!
max power
24/05/2004, 12:37 PM
i read the first few lines than gave up
face, if you think tv3 arent showin games because of health and safety ure a bigger muppet than i thought was possible. also i dont work for pats, I just look at the available evidence and recent history and draw my own conclusions like most rational punters
as far as i can recall that gantry is owned by rte for starters!
so rte own part of pats ground then ???
if you don't work for pats where is the available evidence that the gantree is up to sctatch, i for one haven't seen it and i live in inchicore.....not available anywhere around there
i dnt know who owns it but i have a funny feeling rte do
and yes access to the gantry (they wanted a fixed access) was done and dusted a few weeks ago
I've tried to stay out of the Richmond debate, however at flancare they don't have to carry any equipment up any ladders. They can pass it over the back of section N. Christ, you'd barely need to stand on anything to get yourself up. TV3 more often than not don't, and haven't bothered their whole to come to Longford. Whatever about Richmond, if they're using the same excuse for Longford it is nothing but a cop out.
Yes facilities should improve, but they haven't deteriorated since last season and health and safety standards haven't improved since then. If it was a genuine reason, surely TV3 would've made a stand when they got the coverage. They could've insisted it was in the contract they signed, instead of making it a "point of principle" now.
A face
24/05/2004, 1:02 PM
and yes access to the gantry (they wanted a fixed access) was done and dusted a few weeks ago
Simple question ....... was it signed off by an engineer or was it sign off by anyone from health and safety ?
Yes or No question
And the answer will determine why TV3 are not using the gantries
(i.e. Yes they were signed off, TV3 dont want to do eL weekly OR No they werent signed off and this is why TV3 dont want to use them.)
Can you answer that .... simple yes or no !!
how on earth would I know? and how or why would it have been possible for tv3 to have used them in previous years? has health and safety law changed?
A Face - Did Health and safety shut it down in the first place? Who said it wasn't safe in the first place? Did TV3 get health and safety in?
You're buying TV3's reasons just as much as myself, wws and others aren't.
A face
24/05/2004, 1:15 PM
has health and safety law changed?
No but were not enforced as much previously. And it is the insurance companys that are applying the pressure, not TV3 .... insurance has gone up for everyone.
And "how would i know" ...... why in gods name are you saying that it is done and dusted if you dont if it is or not.
You are saying Pats resolved the problem when you dont know if they have or not. WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT ??
:confused: :eek: :mad:
A face
24/05/2004, 1:23 PM
A Face - Did Health and safety shut it down in the first place? Who said it wasn't safe in the first place? Did TV3 get health and safety in?
TV3 or the companys that they subsontract the work to, have to work within certain parameters in order to be insured (they are obligied to be insured before you say anything) .... bog standard health and safety standards apply.
You're buying TV3's reasons just as much as myself, wws and others aren't.
it is not a case of buying reasons .... it is not an elaborate game they are playing. Man, everyone has to adhere to these standard, this is run of the mill stuff. Taxi bases, banks, newspapers stands, hospitals .... everyone has to have their safety signed off. This is not a new thing at all, eL clubs have been getting away with it and that is great ..... but it is now being hauled in. It is not a great suprise, everyone knew it was happening, it ddin't happen over night.
Lads, in all fairness ... the clubs shouldnt be dragged kicking and screaming to conform.
beacuse I saw it with my own eyes - YES it has been securely fastned to the ground - ure comment that it (a supposed health and safety law which does not exist) wasnt enforced in the past is rubbish - it was never an issue in the past and why is it now
what are the facilities in turners cross anyway?
TV3 or the companys that they subsontract the work to, have to work within certain parameters in order to be insured (they are obligied to be insured before you say anything) .... bog standard health and safety standards apply.
Whats changed since last season. That's quite a serious allegation that the subcontractor's weren't enforcing these most basic health and safety standards last year, and essentially letting their staff work un-insured last season.
it is not a case of buying reasons .... it is not an elaborate game they are playing. Man, everyone has to adhere to these standard, this is run of the mill stuff. Taxi bases, banks, newspapers stands, hospitals .... everyone has to have their safety signed off. This is not a new thing at all, eL clubs have been getting away with it and that is great ..... but it is now being hauled in. It is not a great suprise, everyone knew it was happening, it ddin't happen over night.
Lads, in all fairness ... the clubs shouldnt be dragged kicking and screaming to conform.
What are the standards? The clubs aren't conforming to health and safety standards because TV3 say so? Must get TV3 in here just to check that the working environment here is safe. Fook the Health and Safety Authority....
A face
24/05/2004, 1:37 PM
beacuse I saw it with my own eyes - YES it has been securely fastned to the ground - ure comment that it (a supposed health and safety law which does not exist) wasnt enforced in the past is rubbish - it was never an issue in the past and why is it now
Hey ... if that is the case .... then there will be no problem in getting it signed off and we'll have it back on the screens tonight.
Problem solved ... what was all the fuss over ??
what are the facilities in turners cross anyway?
They weren't up to scratch .... we had to use a ladder for the top gantry .... it wasn't good enough so now there is a fire escape type stairs there. (steel, banister both sides, proper lenght steps, proper grip, .... man it is a fire exit stairs, it is what is needed it is what is there. End of) It is signed off and there is no issue. TV3 or anyone else can bring there cameras and the quality footage our games deserve can be taken :D
It ain't rocket science !!
A face
24/05/2004, 1:42 PM
Whats changed since last season. That's quite a serious allegation that the subcontractor's weren't enforcing these most basic health and safety standards last year, and essentially letting their staff work un-insured last season.
You might be right .... we should lynch them, burn them at the stake, how dare they .... of all the things they expose their staff to ..... who is with me .... there is no justice like anger mob justice ..... lets round them up boys !! :D
Fook the Health and Safety Authority....
Ah ... err ..... correct me if i am wrong ... but isn't that what is happening.
Is that the reason we are in this mess ..... Macy ... you are the ticket man ... you really are !!
You might be right .... we should lynch them, burn them at the stake, how dare they .... of all the things they expose their staff to ..... who is with me .... there is no justice like anger mob justice ..... lets round them up boys !!
So you're not willing to address why it's a H&S issue now when it wasn't last season. It either was safe or it wasn't. If it hasn't changed and wasn't safe last season, you're saying that the employers ignored H&S legislation and thus weren't insured.
Ah ... err ..... correct me if i am wrong ... but isn't that what is happening.
No, think that's the point a few of us are making. TV3 are saying they won't go due to H&S, not that the H&S Authority have said it isn't safe.
max power
24/05/2004, 2:25 PM
right if i type this once more my finger will fall off, certain clubs gave assurances that the gantrees would be up graded for h & s reasons in the close season, tv 3 and others were not happy last season but as the clubs said they would do the work in the close season they continued to work, but seeing as the clubs did nothing and refused to do the work this season that is what happened...
i worked in a certain venue a few years ago, but an odd and dangerous dj box, whixh had a ladder you had to carry dj gear up....
we asked the venue to fix it and they said no, we left and 2 days later they did the work, walking was the only way to get it done....same as tv 3....
macy, is it also a cop out to just blame tv 3 and not the clubs as well....
corkharps
24/05/2004, 2:31 PM
I can't believe it you're all missing the real Prince of Darkness in this!!!!
I blame Roddy Collins!He appears twice? and the budget is gone for the rest of the season! :eek:
Clubs like Harps and Home Farm Everton Fingal Dublin City film their own games and supply the coverage FOC to TV3 and they still don't want to show it.While the gantrys have to be sorted this is a wind up by TV3.We all know there is a market for El coverage,why oh why can't some of the excellent independent companies put a package together and sell it to RTEngerland,GranadaTV3,TG4 and or Sky???????Something along the lines of the soccer show(but without the ****ty graphics and Shay Healy!). :mad:
A face
24/05/2004, 3:01 PM
So you're not willing to address why it's a H&S issue now when it wasn't last season. It either was safe or it wasn't. If it hasn't changed and wasn't safe last season, you're saying that the employers ignored H&S legislation and thus weren't insured.
It doesn't stop with me but yeah ... i think they ignored the H+S but as Max said above, they did this with the understanding it was going to improve !!
Macy ........... are you now trying to say it is the camera crews employers fault. Please answer this cause if it is man you are so twisted it is gone beyond a joke.
Are you now blaming the employers ??
No, think that's the point a few of us are making. TV3 are saying they won't go due to H&S, not that the H&S Authority have said it isn't safe.
Chicken ... Egg .... Gantries are not up to scratch is the actual point you should be looking at.
It really doesn't matter a flying fcuk who said it first or what ever you are impling ...... if it aint signed off, it aint signed off, who pulled it up first isnt the issue. OR is it the only issue you are looking at.
Either way .... after we go do a few laps of thses circles ..... the gantries will have to be sorted. That is the bones of it. And no matter what angle you look at it or debate it from ..... no noe will manage to get away from that.
Gantries = Be all and end all for this situation.
Everything else = Irrelevent
It doesn't stop with me but yeah ... i think they ignored the H+S but as Max said above, they did this with the understanding it was going to improve !!
Macy ........... are you now trying to say it is the camera crews employers fault. Please answer this cause if it is man you are so twisted it is gone beyond a joke.
Are you now blaming the employers ??
No, but if they let their staff go up unsafe gantry's, particularly as they appear to have known about it, then I think it's disgusting regardless of this current arguement.
If, however, they were safe last season, as appears to be the case, then they're safe this season regardless of their preferred working conditions. It's not a safety issue.
If, however, they were safe last season, as appears to be the case, then they're safe this season regardless of their preferred working conditions. It's not a safety issue.Tell that to their Union or the family of some TV3 worker if/when they suffer an accident whilst filming.
They were doing it last year on condition that it would be brough up to standard this year, which they were not.
so if they had an accdent last year thats ok than but if they have one now- oh my god
the mind boggles
tv3 are actin the maggot
Tell that to their Union or the family of some TV3 worker if/when they suffer an accident whilst filming.
So it would've been alright if it had happened last season, because it was going to improve this season?
Just going around in circles, so there's no point.
A face
24/05/2004, 3:31 PM
No, but if they let their staff go up unsafe gantry's, particularly as they appear to have known about it, then I think it's disgusting regardless of this current arguement.
If, however, they were safe last season, as appears to be the case, then they're safe this season regardless of their preferred working conditions. It's not a safety issue.
Macy ... you are right .... it's disgusting !!
Are you with me ..... an anger mob seems to be the only option. We'll kit ourselves out with flaming torches and march in the streets. Employers not going by the book is simply the worse, most heinous crime known to man.
I think there is alot worse going on in society to be honest.
tiktok
24/05/2004, 3:35 PM
Gantries = Be all and end all for this situation.
UEFA licensing only states that a TV platform must be present exactly in line with halfway and at a height that produces a viewing angle of 15-30%, it makes no mention of safety requirements for the gantry although the licensing requirements do cite the following as reference
"Code of practice for safety at sports grounds" Dept. of Educ.
"Code of practice for the management of fire safety in places of assembly" Dept. of Env.
"Safety, health and Welfare at work act"
"Building for everyone; inclusion, access and Use" National disability authority
so it's likely that the safety of anybody working for TV3 would ahve to be adhering to the above practices. In the end, the clubs are going to have to address this sooner or later, for all our benefit I hope it's sooner
A face
24/05/2004, 3:47 PM
UEFA licensing only states
That is ... it aint up to UEFA.
The media companys involved have to be insured ... the insurance companys dont give a toss what the FAI, FIFA, UEFA, Fran Rooney, Eddie Connors ..... anyone says.
They want H+S authority to give it the thumbs up and then they'll pay out. If the media company are working in conditions that dont have a thumbs up then they are not covered, also the €40,000 camera going up the dodgy ladder isn't covered either, no matter how many tubes of glue you have used to keep it there.
The media company have allegiance to football clubs, they are there for a job and where it happens is irrelevent. It just have to be safe.
tiktok
24/05/2004, 3:52 PM
That is ... it aint up to UEFA.
was only making the point that it's in the club's interest to have it in order. don't know enough about insurance etc. to get involved in the rest of the debate.
pineapple stu
24/05/2004, 5:49 PM
[Pineapple Stu .... the only coverage of note on telly all week and you don't watch it, man .... what are you like.
Going completely off the thread, but anyway...
Am I supposed to sit through half an hour of this rubbish just because it's eL? Do you think I've nothing better to be doing?
eL Weekly is a poor show, with no attempts to make it any better. The last eight months or so, it's been going steadily worse and it's obvious they don't care about it - poor picture quality, repeat cut, shortened the show, only send cameras to two or so games a week, don't show highlights sent in to them, still analysing the bottom half of the First Division and wondering if Kilkenny have anything to play for after two years, still showing about five minutes' tops of action in a 30-minute show, while making very few attempts to promote it (Anyone seen it advertised on the channel during the day? During their European or international coverage? Very little done). There's been plenty of e-mails sent in from here (as far as I know) and the programme has still gone steadily downhill.
A face - The point the others are making is that they don't believe that the gantries convene H&S laws. Obviously, the clubs should be looking at continuous improvements of all aspects per the UEFA Licencing guidelines, but you can understand people being suspicious that TV3 are just pulling a huff in the hope of dropping something they don't really want anyway. That's completely different to clubs flagrantly convening H&S laws and not caring.
Enda M
24/05/2004, 6:22 PM
its an excuse and cop out plain and simple.they were fine about for a year and decided to pull the plug on the show.they couldnt be bothered to cum to flancare all season an surely there is not much wrong with our gantry.
A face
24/05/2004, 7:35 PM
A face - The point the others are making is that they don't believe that the gantries convene H&S laws. Obviously, the clubs should be looking at continuous improvements of all aspects per the UEFA Licencing guidelines, but you can understand people being suspicious that TV3 are just pulling a huff in the hope of dropping something they don't really want anyway. That's completely different to clubs flagrantly convening H&S laws and not caring.
Valid points but that is not what they are saying. At the moment, someone from one of the clubs in question has told them "to fcuk off and get your own ladder" and that was the last straw apparently.
Maybe over the top to stop it all together but i think they are right. The clubs have to sort themselves out.
Fair enough ... the programme aint great right now but there are plans to improve and they haven't given us any reason to disbelieve that. It takes time, like everything. But what gets me is that we haven't had something like this in a long while. RTÉ made a half ársed attempt at something before and it wasnt anywhere near what TV3 are doing. I personally like seeing something instead of nothing.
But on this topic .... will they pull out or wont they !!
We'll just have to wait and see.
pineapple stu
24/05/2004, 9:32 PM
[QUOTE=A face]At the moment, someone from one of the clubs in question has told them "to fcuk off and get your own ladder" and that was the last straw apparently.[\QUOTE]
IF TV3 are exaggerating the ladder stuff, then I can actually understand the club saying that. Doesn't excuse it, but I can understand it. Obviously the club should get flak for acting that way, but I stil think TV3 are looking for a way out.
[QUOTE=A face]Fair enough ... the programme ain't great right now but there are plans to improve and they haven't given us any reason to disbelieve that. It takes time, like everything. But what gets me is that we haven't had something like this in a long while. RTÉ made a half ársed attempt at something before and it wasnt anywhere near what TV3 are doing. I personally like seeing something instead of nothing.[\QUOTE]
They haven't given us any reason to believe that they are going to improve it is more like it. It's constantly gone downhill - fewer games, Goal of the Month being dropped (though it's making a comeback full of goals the camera didn't get and very ordinary goals because they don't cover half the matches), shorter programme, repeat dropped, poorer picture quality, still showing us the highlights three times more as "analysis", wondering if we can see from the same camera angle if it really was a penalty, and so on.
RTÉ did make a half-arséd effort before and it was nowhere near what TV3 are doing, I agree. It was far better. Two (proper) camera angles at most games, longer highlights, live commentary, proper analysis, focus on the smaller clubs, decent time and so on. It wasn't perfect - being practically forced into it and then trying to force clubs to change kick-off times - but it was leagues ahead of TV3's efforts.
[QUOTE]But on this topic .... will they pull out or won't they!![\QUOTE]
In fairness, this was your original point in the thread. If this is a temporary pull-out, I'll be a bit swayed back in favour of TV3, though I'm still sceptical. We'll have to see, but either way, the programme needs to improve and there are no signs of this at all, which is fuelling the negative attitudes towards the station.
A face
24/05/2004, 11:32 PM
In fairness, this was your original point in the thread. If this is a temporary pull-out, I'll be a bit swayed back in favour of TV3, though I'm still sceptical. We'll have to see, but either way, the programme needs to improve and there are no signs of this at all, which is fuelling the negative attitudes towards the station.
Firstly regards all your other points above ... i cant disagree with them.
The point quoted above .... stu ... i am in the same boat as everyone else. I have always hoped that it would improve. I heard they pulled the plug aswell ... i understood it was a temp thing, we were given the reasons, i saw their side of it (and still do) we were lead to believe that as soon as the clubs sort out their camp then all would resume. I believed it to be true (maybe naive of me, but i see it as optimistic).
As things are unfolding ... it doesn't look good (as you pointed out) i am now a bit worried but i am not jumping to the other side of the fence. I still think the clubs should be helping themselves.
And if they pull the plug ..... is still think the clubs should do more to improve the situation.
A face
24/05/2004, 11:34 PM
Just to add aswell
info@tv3.ie
I have mailed them to ask what is actually happening .... there is no harm in asking.
max power
25/05/2004, 9:13 AM
sport@tv3.ie is the best e mail to use, but you'll just get a standard reply
excellent production last nite - Sports Tonight
lots of effort went into it and they had a sponsors slot featuring a competition bankrolled by walkers crisps - anyone who still thinks tv3 dont have another agenda over ladders is kidding themselves
el weekly - the worst produced show ever has been shelved to sell english crisps and watch syndicated (ie cheap) footage of tiger woods and ged foullier at a training session
huzzzah!
TommyT
25/05/2004, 10:13 AM
el weekly - the worst produced show ever has been shelved to sell english crisps and watch syndicated (ie cheap) footage of tiger woods and ged foullier at a training session
huzzzah!
huzzah indeed,
you've just given me an idea; we launch a campaign to get TV3 to give wall to wall coverage of the premiership, with banalysis from Rico and Scully and hey presto the public turn to the EL in their droves
Sheridan
25/05/2004, 10:31 AM
huzzah indeed,
you've just given me an idea; we launch a campaign to get TV3 to give wall to wall coverage of the premiership, with banalysis from Rico and Scully and hey presto the public turn to the EL in their droves
In fairness, it could hardly be worse than The Premiership on RTE. How, HOW, can Bill O'Herlihy still know so little about football after covering it for god knows how many years??
eh thats the general idea as the anchor man - his job is to play dumb and than be ASTOUNDED by the insight of ex pros dunphy and giles et al
Sheridan
25/05/2004, 10:48 AM
eh thats the general idea as the anchor man - his job is to play dumb and than be ASTOUNDED by the insight of ex pros dunphy and giles et al
Come now, it's quite clear that there's no "playing" involved. Watching him struggle with the names of (huge) clubs that happen to play outside his beloved Premiership when covering European games is embarrassing. Remember when he clearly thought Ireland had qualified for the World Cup after beating the Netherlands? :rolleyes:
eoinh
25/05/2004, 11:02 AM
Thought Cork City had beaten Dynamo Kiev when it was CSKA Kiev :rolleyes:
A walking diasaster area alright. Always seems totally perplexed when english clubs get beaten in european competition.
because its a premiership station, totally loyal to the premiership with all ex english based pros as analysts - what do you expect - take Dunphy - his whole cl analysis was based around arsenal man united and chelsea! :rolleyes:
by the way on the gantries a post on the pats mb says rte built them in the first place (which is what I thought all along)
Sheridan
25/05/2004, 11:19 AM
because its a premiership station, totally loyal to the premiership with all ex english based pros as analysts - what do you expect - take Dunphy - his whole cl analysis was based around arsenal man united and chelsea! :rolleyes:
Now, now, Celtic aren't in the Premiership yet.
I emailed RTE twice a while back to find out if they could tell me how many of the Glasgow Celtics' games they'd broadcast in the past two years, and the corresponding number of domestic games covered in the same period. Needless to say, they never got round to giving me the info, but I'd put the figure at around forty Celtic and eight domestic.
Actually, one thing has become clear from this thread; we should be focusing as much, if not more, energy on HAMMERING RTE for better coverage than complaining about TV3 dropping theirs. TV3 is a two-bit trash TV wasteland, RTE purports to be the national broadcaster and has absolutely no excuse.
max power
25/05/2004, 11:21 AM
rte always use the rights excuse issue..... :confused:
Sheridan
25/05/2004, 11:27 AM
rte always use the rights excuse issue..... :confused:
They'd be the rights that stopped them broadcasting Bohs-Shels last year? :confused:
eoinh
25/05/2004, 11:36 AM
because its a premiership station, totally loyal to the premiership with all ex english based pros as analysts - what do you expect - take Dunphy - his whole cl analysis was based around arsenal man united and chelsea! :rolleyes:
Liam Brady isnt too bad when it comes to the champions league. I suppose that comes down to his time playing on the continent.
As for the rest of them - yep yore right WWS their lack of knowledge on many of the teams competing is sad really.
rte always use the rights excuse issue..... :confused:
There is no rights issue - you could set up a station tomorrow and broadcast a game once you'd agreed it with the clubs. TV3 have/had to produce the show as part of the delayed coverage deal, but they never had exclusive rights.
max power
25/05/2004, 12:33 PM
so i can put internet highlight on line of our games if the club agrees to it ????
so i can put internet highlight on line of our games if the club agrees to it ????
Well there is no rights issue anyway, including 'net AFAIK*.
*but then I'm not a broadcast lawyer, and would assume you'd have to have filmed it or you'd have to get permission from whoever did.
boynesider
25/05/2004, 2:01 PM
no more interest in EL, the TV3 text on EL which was far superior to RTE is now gone, as someone says in another MB they must really have got the Hump with the League
max power
25/05/2004, 2:02 PM
not the league in general, just certain clubs which i have said numberous times
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