Drogheda

[White Horse]

Reduce it to €214k he said in fairness. Our budget wouldn't be too far off that somewhere around €200-250k I think.

A lot of clubs have made the mistake of spending beyond their means in the first division in the expectation of promotion.

Dundalk FC almost went out of existence through persistent over-spending.

Drogheda are coming to the end of a crazy rollercoaster ride. Many fans of other clubs would advise them to recognise the unfortunate reality of their position and only spend what can be generated from their fans and sponsors. Plannning to spend in excess of that is lunacy.

However, I still sense an air of unreality in Hunky Dory Park.

[pineapple stu]

And you need to realize that its swings and roundabouts in this league
Absolutely nothing in your post was relevant to White Horse's point. He needs to realise nothing; DUFC need to realise where they're at, which was the point made.

FWIW, I think our budget next year is around the E200k mark as well.

[ndrog]

Absolutely nothing in your post was relevant to White Horse's point. He needs to realise nothing; DUFC need to realise where they're at, which was the point made.

FWIW, I think our budget next year is around the E200k mark as well.

My post was relevant both to the post and the thread in general . He made reference to us being a small club with a tiny fan base which as i said is swings and round abouts in this league . Crowds come and go , as does success and failure . Both depend on finance , unfortunately we dont have any . Any thanks for pointing out that DUFC need to know what they're at stu , i will pass that on to the club .

[pineapple stu]

And the point he made from that was that Drogheda need to factor that into their projections, which he feels they haven't done. None of your rant addressed that point. It was completely irrelevant, in fact.

[marinobohs]

..... Anyway. Projected budget does seem very high for next season, especially for a first division club any reason (other than obvious overspending) ? Sad to see Drogs in trouble again so soon after the last "great escape" hope they can pull it around but not a great time to go looking for investment in LOI (was there ever ?:confused: )

[ndrog]

And the point he made from that was that Drogheda need to factor that into their projections, which he feels they haven't done. None of your rant addressed that point. It was completely irrelevant, in fact.

What rant ? That aint a rant by any stretch . Believe me the club is going to cut is cloth etc .It has no choice whatsoever because there is no one coming in with any outside investment . Chairman was on the radio this morning stating this , and also at the meeting the other night it was stressed in no uncertain terms that there will be no spending money we dont have ! Going completely amateur was also mentioned . There was a very real sense of getting there act together once and for all re our finances . Every club has to promise to underwrite debts that will be incurred during the season , our problem is there is no one willing to do that anymore . We do not have a gerry matthews like dundalk or the backing of a college like UCD unfortunately . The people who backed us just cant do it anymore and thats the bottom line. There are realistic budgets being put in place to run a first division club and even that seems to be beyond us at this stage . Hopefully they cant pull it out of the bag before deadline day .

[pineapple stu]

Believe me the club is going to cut is cloth etc
Yet White Horse's point is that that isn't evident at all from the press release.

[Nesta99]

There was a very real sense of getting their act together once and for all re our finances .

So the people didnt get their act together 2 years ago after pushing the club into examinership?
The same people more or less have pushed DUFC to the brink again?

You had a Gerry Matthews plus some and that investment was squandered on the basis of an unsustainable and unrealistic pipe dream!
Considering you dont even have the considerable outlay of maintaining Hunky Dory park happily defferring that financial burden to the FAI.

Realism and Drogheda Utd and in particular nDrog should not appear in the same paragraph!!

[Macy]

Sad to see Drogs in trouble again so soon after the last "great escape" hope they can pull it around but not a great time to go looking for investment in LOI (was there ever ?:confused: )
But have we established they are actually in trouble, or just trying to raise funds for an unaffordable budget, yet?

[legendz]

It is sad to see the Drog's in the position they are in. Hopefully they can get the funds in place. A drop to the A Championship is a nightmare scenario though Cobh have rebuilt to a degree.

[Schumi]

Yet White Horse's point is that that isn't evident at all from the press release.

A press release saying "someone better give us €150k or we're screwed" is more likely to rustle up some money than one that says "we'll reduce our budget if someone doesn't give us €150k".

[pineapple stu]

Possibly. But you'd imagine that after crying wolf for the 471st time (not just Drogheda, but the whole league), it's bound to lose a bit of its impact.

[Longfordian]

Unless they owe the Revenue and/or players and can't come up with the money in time then there's no reason they can't get a licence and run their club on a considerably lower budget than their ideal budget. Most clubs in the division are doing it and I assume they don't have (m)any players under contract already?

[Schumi]

Possibly. But you'd imagine that after crying wolf for the 471st time (not just Drogheda, but the whole league), it's bound to lose a bit of its impact.

You'd imagine that the continued financial collapses of teams who spend more money than they have would tip people off too but seemingly not!

[ndrog]

So the people didnt get their act together 2 years ago after pushing the club into examinership?
The same people more or less have pushed DUFC to the brink again?

You had a Gerry Matthews plus some and that investment was squandered on the basis of an unsustainable and unrealistic pipe dream!
Considering you dont even have the considerable outlay of maintaining Hunky Dory park happily defferring that financial burden to the FAI.

Realism and Drogheda Utd and in particular nDrog should not appear in the same paragraph!!

Lets just get one thing straight , the club is well aware of its short comings of the last years . Many many mistakes have been made as we all know . The plan going forward is for the survival of the club , NO overspending , NO large budget and no getting themselves in any more debt . Thats what this whole scenario is all about . The people at the helm of the club expressed these exact sentiments at the meeting the other night .There are new people there who are trying to formulate a plan for the survival of the club and puitting in a sustainable plan for going forward . The point was raised that ideally we would like someone to take over the running of the club and invest some money , which as we all know is essential in the running of a football club .If nobody shows and interest the club will budget accordingly and go forward .If that has be completely amateur or not then so be it . They are not going to gamble the future of the football club any further . And before you all jump down my throat , i know we spent millions on a gamble before blah , blah , blah ! We are where we are im afraid , and the future of the club is unknown . If no body shows up with a few bob then so be it . I am very realistic about whats going on . And nesta you know nothing about the outlay the club has re the upkeep of united pk . No financial burden is taken away from the club and put onto the fai ! are you for real ? Do you think the FAI are that much of a soft touch . All upkeep in utd pk is paid for by the club and the rent on the ground is also going up . The club is no longer run by the same people who got us in the mess a few seasons ago . A whole new crew of people are on board and there trying to sort out the mess .That real enough for you ?

[Dodge]

The point remins though.

Why not sun it at as low a cost as possible, and if extra investment comes in then use it then. Rather than appear to be beging for the investment now.

I'd guess you'd wiin more sympathy that way (fpr whatever thats worth).

And I say that as someone with a lot of time for Drogheda

[iceman]

The club is no longer run by the same people who got us in the mess a few seasons ago .
Have to disagree ndrog ,Hoey, O connor and Byrne are still registered directors- they pull the strings.

[Macy]

The plan going forward is for the survival of the club , NO overspending , NO large budget and no getting themselves in any more debt.
Then just budget for what ye can afford, which would be enough to be top half of the first at least. This appears to be all about increasing the budget from "must have" to "nice to have" status.

[Nesta99]

That real enough for you ?

Actually yes! That was a reasonable post. I wont nit pick on the ground issue or the fact that there are still many people at Drogheda that were around through previous financial woes!

[legendz]

Seems to be a similar issue as Boh's, same people are still in charge. I can't see how they can be trusted and given any money.

[iceman]

Seems to be a similar issue as Boh's, same people are still in charge. I can't see how they can be trusted and given any money.
Nail on head there legendz. The people who took Drogheda into examinership are still direcors of the club, there should have been a complete sweeping of the decks at that time. The Drogheda public came to their rescue two years ago , thats not going to happen again , and no local business will touch them because every one of them have been bitten before.
I cant see them surviving this time.

[passerrby]

you say them iceman are you not a drogs fan

[L.T.F.C.]

Lets just get one thing straight... // ...That real enough for you ?

People really need to learn how to use paragraphing.

[iceman]

you say them iceman are you not a drogs fan

I certainly am a fan. I was referring to the club hierarchy.

[Horus]

Anyone who wants Drogheda United can have it, all of it, every last blade of grass of it. That has been the message in every press release in recent weeks. The shareholders are still the shareholders because no one has said they want it yet. You can't give something to someone unless they actually agree to take it. The original three directors can't keep bailing it out (and have resigned as directors to prove this). Again this year the same people have kept it going. Enough is enough. People who have been spoiled by others providing a League of Ireland club for them for years are finding it hard to comprehend that the kind of figures now being bandied about are the figures that a small group of people have had to pony up year after year. That 185K shortfall is based on a pared back budget and an amateur squad. We heard that the other night at the meeting. I think the harsh reality is slowly starting to dawn on people...Drogheda doesn't deserve a senior football club, it never did. It was folly. Or at least that's what the small turnout proved on Tuesday night. Unfortunately, it cost many people very very dearly not least those who owned, ran and worked in the club and who have suffered abuse at every turn as well. And iceman I think if you care to re-read the newspaper reports of the examinership case two years ago you will find that it's very clear who really saved Drogheda United. Anyone who is close to the club knows that. In the main a very small group of people and the same core group of supporters. If the wider community care about it and want it, then they only have to say so and it's their's.

[White Horse]

That 185K shortfall is based on a pared back budget and an amateur squad.

If the players aren't been paid, where is all the money going to?


I think the harsh reality is slowly starting to dawn on people...Drogheda doesn't deserve a senior football club, it never did. It was folly. Unfortunately, it cost many people very very dearly not least those who owned, ran and worked in the club and who have suffered abuse at every turn as well.

That is a very harsh assessment. Is this the opinion of those who run the club?

[dong]

well aware of its short comings of the last years......
Many many mistakes have been made as we all know.....
The plan going forward is......
trying to formulate a plan for the survival of the club and puitting in a sustainable plan for going forward......
go forward.....
I am very realistic about whats going on.....

Why don't you throw thm a few quid yourself there Biffo??
Not like you're short a bob or two.

[Cosmo]

Why don't you throw thm a few quid yourself there Biffo??
Not like you're short a bob or two.

Post of the year there :clap:

[pineapple stu]

That 185K shortfall is based on a pared back budget and an amateur squad.
There's no way that can possibly be true.

[marinobohs]

But have we established they are actually in trouble, or just trying to raise funds for an unaffordable budget, yet?

Think they are saying getting a licence depends on it - i would call that "trouble" yes :)

[pineapple stu]

Or it could be wolf-crying. Again. It's hard to take what many clubs say seriously.

[marinobohs]

Or it could be wolf-crying. Again. It's hard to take what many clubs say seriously.

Possible Stu. But if so, it is a very dangerous strategy for any LOI club especially one that has depended so recently on the generosity of its fan base (and beyond). Even by LOI clubs standard (not saying much ) such short term thinking would be crazy.

[pineapple stu]

Shock as LoI club maybe engages in stupid strategy.

[Horus]

A lot of people at the meeting on Tuesday were very surprised by a slide showing examples of some of the fixed costs....ref fees, phones/heat, pitch maintenance, security (event controller required under licensing), floodlight maintenance, insurance, medical (physio, hospital, scans, ops etc) and a 3 or 4 more. They totalled 130K roughly. And they were just some of them. We were told there were plenty of others such as rent to the FAI, travelling costs etc. I know the pitch for example required a lot of work this season due to drainage problems. We were told that the most optimistic projected shortfall was 150K and pessimistic around 200K but the realistic figure was 185K. Of course it should be possible to shave off bits and pieces here and there once people can negotiate better deals with suppliers etc. The main thing seems to be that the income figures this year fell so far short of everyone's worst expectations that the income side for 2011 has to be virtually nil (slight exaggeration obviously but you get my drift). So huge fixed costs on one side and beyond pessimistic income on the other and there's your gap, be it 50K, 100K, 150K or 200K. Doesn't really alter the fact that there's no one there to underwrite it whatever it is. The message really was that the lads now running it need to have security of funds in order to try and put proper structures in place that ultimately will save the club money in the long-term. Can't really understand the scepticism on here myself given that it is supporters who are setting the budget and who have been given full access to the club's finances for quite a while now because the idea since last year was that they would take over the club.

[pineapple stu]

Can't really understand the scepticism on here
The scepticism is because there are clubs smaller than Drogheda not looking at optimistic E150k shortfalls next season.

[Macy]

Think they are saying getting a licence depends on it - i would call that "trouble" yes :)
They are in trouble of not getting a licence for the "budget of € 250,000 to € 300,000 for 2011". That is not the same as being in trouble of getting a licence.

So again I ask, is it about getting a licence or about getting a licence for a budget that they reckon they can push for promotion with?

[pineapple stu]

So again I ask, is it about getting a licence or about getting a licence for a budget that they reckon they can push for promotion with?
From the Drawda Indent article on page 2 -


The club says it hopes to operate with a budget [...] which would allow Bobby Browne put together a squad capable of making a credible push for an immediate return to the Premier Division.

[Lim till i die]

In fairness there's probably only a difference of 80 grand max between surviving in the first and pushing for promotion, nothing like the shortfall being talked about here.

Also as you reduce expenses on the playing side, projected income will fall on the other side.

I'm guessing the letter of comfort and no ones willingness to sign it is the main issue here.

[Horus]

The scepticism is because there are clubs smaller than Drogheda not looking at optimistic E150k shortfalls next season.

And I'm sure that the FAI will enlighten the lads if there's some magic formula that they are missing in Hunky Dorys Park. However, it's probably not the best idea to compare clubs that have a) grounds provided by councils or universities and thus no associated maintenance costs or b) all-weather pitches that are by their very nature generating additional income with Drogheda's situation where they pay rent and are also responsible for all maintenance costs. If there are other direct comparisions with first division clubs, discussions with the FAI will unearth where savings can be made. Hopefully they can be. That's what everyone would want.

[Lim till i die]

Limerick and Cork are two off the top of my head.

Also "all mainenance costs". What are we talking here??

[pineapple stu]

Where we have a ground maintained by the college (though I'm not sure of the exact agreement there), ye have a club bar (which we can't have by virtue of our association with the college) and a ground sponsor. Swings and roundabouts there. And I'd say the maintenance bill at United Park is very small given the state of it at the best of times. (Yes, I like the away terrace, but the jacks for example have hardly had a penny spent on cleaning since I first visited ten years ago)

[Schumi]

the jacks for example have hardly had a penny spent on cleaningI thought that was exactly how they did clean them. :)

[Lim till i die]

I thought that was exactly how they did clean them. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-cT58rgNc

[passerrby]

but surley clubs who own their ground have as much costs as a club who rents theres, as someone said its swings and roundabouts

[iceman]

Also bear in mind Drogheda have considerable income from weekday use of the car-park at United Park thanks to the adjacent hospital - at least €25,000 and thats a conservative estimate. Income from mobile phone companies for allowing antannae to be placed on the floodlight pylons, the weekly bingo (according to the guy that runs it) brings in €40,000, Billboard income from billboards at the rear of the away shed ,not tomention pitchside advertising boards. Lotto sales etc ....
All adds up to a tidy sum.

[White Horse]

It's funny too to think that just two years ago Drogheda, Galway, Bohs, Cork and Derry were among the teams holding meetings to set up an All-Ireland League. The proposed league was praised by several journalists who should have known better as a potential saviour for Irish soccer, though the All-Ireland component of it consisted of a mere two Irish League teams, Glentoran and Linfield, the Belfast giants being the only clubs north of the border with sizeable support.
Odder still was the fact that this league, all of whose teams would consist of full-time professionals, could find no place for such traditional powers as Sligo Rovers and Dundalk, although it did propose to admit perennial underachievers Limerick 37 from the First Division.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/common-sense-not-so-common-in-irish-clubs-2466492.html

It is important not to forget the damage clubs like Drogheda tried to do to the league. Imagine the mess that would have been created had they got their way and tore the LOI apart chasing their Celtig Virus vision.

While many fans rightly feel empathy towards their fans, let's not forget that they were a malevolent influence in the league.

[Magicme]

Or maybe they could see what was coming for them and shock horror but they tried to get changes that may have helped them survive. Glad they didn't get their wish coz agree it would have done a lot of harm but you can't blame them for wanting what they perceived to be best for their club.

[legendz]

People will have a view on an All-Ireland league, for or against. Anything that is a closed shop is not a good idea in my book. If a league had been formed without Sligo and Dundalk, it'd have been a disgrace.
Thankfully Drogheda and others did not get their way with that. It would have been a terrible mess.
I wouldn't bash the Drog's only for that though. There was a group of clubs looking for the Celtic Virus vision.
Everytime I look and hear about Drogheda's plight, I can't help but think about that late miss away to Dynamo Kiev. How the ball was shot over the bar when it was easier to score late on, I will never forget. The small margins in football games that can change a lot of things. I suppose that was the gamble they took with the casino like finacial gambling model and they were out of luck.

[CSFShels]

2010 expenditure was put at €529,000, when all income considered there was a shortfall €88,000. The projected budget for 2011 takes a realistic approach in factoring in significantly lesser figures including gate income, due to the anticipated smaller crowds and the relative lower ticket prices. Fixed costs such as travel, rent, medical, light and heat have driven the figures upwards. Overheads for 2011 are estimated at €402,000, however considering all incomings there is a perspective deficit of €188,000.
http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/4710/

Perhaps I'm missing something. Drogheda are carrying forward a loss from 2010 of €88,000 and that deficit will increase by €100,000 if they proceed with budgeted expenditure of €402,000.

So why not reduce budgeted expenditure to €214,000 and clear all the debt.

Drogheda need to realise that they are a small club with a tiny fan base. If they cut their cloth, they can plan to build up their fan base (and their revenue) over a number of years.
Agreed, there'd probably still be some sort of loss as income would drop, but at least there'd still be a club.

[Paddyfield]

More about in the Sunday Indo today
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/common-sense-not-so-common-in-irish-clubs-2466492.html