The La Liga Thread

[DeLorean]

So it turns out punditry and management are two totally different things, who'd have thought?! Just because Neville is an excellent analyst, which he clearly is, never meant he'd make a good manager. If understanding the game automatically made you a brilliant manager then why have do so few world class players make a good stab at it? This notion that his punditry won't be taken as seriously now, although possibly true, is ridiculous I think. If Neville had spent the last couple of years criticising managers for not being capable of organising their teams properly, then fair enough, but from what I saw he usually focussed on what the players themselves weren't doing right. I'm sure he's pointed out to his Valencia players what they're doing wrong also, it doesn't mean they'll do it right the next time. The profile of the club, language barrier and his own inexperience were always going to make this a tough one, although in his worst nightmares he could have hardly envisaged it going this badly. Maybe he should have started with Salford City!

[geysir]

So it turns out punditry and management are two totally different things, who'd have thought?! Just because Neville is an excellent analyst, which he clearly is, never meant he'd make a good manager. If understanding the game automatically made you a brilliant manager then why have do so few world class players make a good stab at it? This notion that his punditry won't be taken as seriously now, although possibly true, is ridiculous I think. If Neville had spent the last couple of years criticising managers for not being capable of organising their teams properly, then fair enough, but from what I saw he usually focussed on what the players themselves weren't doing right. I'm sure he's pointed out to his Valencia players what they're doing wrong also, it doesn't mean they'll do it right the next time. The profile of the club, language barrier and his own inexperience were always going to make this a tough one, although in his worst nightmares he could have hardly envisaged it going this badly. Maybe he should have started with Salford City!
I don't dissagree with much of that. I was replying to a question from Owls fan and I said his punditry was good and entertaining.

you ask the rhetorical who'd have thought punditry and management are two totally different things?
Apparently many people thought he would make the transition to being an effective coach with a huge club.
Many bought into that separate world of knowledge that punditry exists in, not appreciating that it's totally removed from actual responsibility in the game.
Neville himself bought into it, a host of other fellow pundits bought into it and Valencia of course. Maybe he could have been the clipboard guy around the club. Carrying around the clipboard for years didn't do Chris Hughton any harm.

[OwlsFan]

The last resort of the desperate manager: appealing to the fans and saying how wonderful they are http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2016/0209/766679-gary-neville-desperate-to-win-over-valencia-fans/

But we all know football. A few wins in a row and he'll be God's gift to management and be touted for the Man U job :)

[geysir]

Neville is just too desperate to be the nice guy that everybody likes.
Fergie never gave a damn what others thought about him or his decisions, he just totally believed he was right.
With haughty Van Gaal, ' you're too stupid to understand what I am doing' 'how could an imbecile like you possibly have a clue about my expertise'.

[DeLorean]

I don't dissagree with much of that. I was replying to a question from Owls fan and I said his punditry was good and entertaining.

Oh yeah, I was doing the same.


you ask the rhetorical who'd have thought punditry and management are two totally different things?
Apparently many people thought he would make the transition to being an effective coach with a huge club.
Many bought into that separate world of knowledge that punditry exists in, not appreciating that it's totally removed from actual responsibility in the game.
Neville himself bought into it, a host of other fellow pundits bought into it and Valencia of course. Maybe he could have been the clipboard guy around the club. Carrying around the clipboard for years didn't do Chris Hughton any harm.

Fair point. I suppose Neville did have his England coaching on his CV also, being a part of a team with a 100% record in Euro qualifying isn't to be sniffed at either, so it wasn't just his reputation as an analyst. It was always a high-risk appointment though from both sides.

[geysir]

Who can tell, but it's not yet out of the question that one day the honour will be bestowed,
"Arise, Sir Gary".

[DeLorean]

Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and La Liga already over really and we haven't even hit March. Juve's slow start has kept things semi-interesting in Serie A for now. The Premier League is intriguing but for all the wrong reasons barring Leicester's rise.

[OwlsFan]

Some other good fights across Europe though (e.g. The Netherlands)

http://www.espnfc.com/dutch-eredivisie/11/table

[DeLorean]

True, even if it's is more of a Celtic/Rangers type race to the finish line between the country's biggest two clubs. Jack Bryne's crowd are well adrift now unfortunately.

[OwlsFan]

Athletico Madrid are great. Saw the last 20 minutes of the game against Real Madrid which they won 0-1. So well organised and very difficult to break down. Having gone yonks without beating their city rivals they now win these games regularly. Great for their fans too and that's why I don't begrudge whatever success which comes round the way of Manchester City, Everton, Sheffield United and Bohs, having had to endure the heartache for generations of their respective bigger city rivals getting all the attention.

[DeLorean]

Were Sheffield United really in the shadows to that kind of extent? I'm not being presumptuous, I'm just a bit ignorant of both clubs histories pre-1990s.

Totally agree regarding Atletico, their consistency under Simeone has been incredible.

[OwlsFan]

Tongue in cheek 😀

[DeLorean]

Ha that occurred to me but it was nicely disguised with the other examples being legit :)

[geysir]

At least Real Madrid have recent and historical domination, whereas I can't remember when Shamrock Rovers had real top-dog-in-the-city form, could it be as long as 40 years ago?:D

[DeLorean]

Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and La Liga already over really and we haven't even hit March.

I may have spoken a little too soon. Bayern had a shock defeat at home to Mainz last night with Dortmund winning again. Only five points between them now and they meet in Dortmund on Saturday.

Gary Neville had another very good win after the setback at the weekend, Valencia came from behind to win 2-1 at Malaga. They were helped by a comical own goal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FkXO3CFH8U) from the Cameroon goalkeeper Carlos Kameni.

It's Juventus v AC Milan in the Coppa Italia final after Juve threw away a 3-0 first leg lead against Inter at the San Siro but squeezed through on penalties.

[geysir]

Valencia lost at home against Atletico Madrid, they were pistol whipped. No white hankies for Gary but there was the banner raised after the final whistle, "Gary go home".
There is a big gap separating the rest from Bilbao upwards.
I'd expect Bilbao to beat Valencia and go through to the last 8 of the EL.
Gary might survive, but I suspect there is not the will to give him the job long term unless he produces some sparks this season

[OwlsFan]

Neville sacked http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35517545

[The Fly]

Neville sacked http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35517545

Sky was the limit for Gary.

[geysir]

:D Very good Fly.

i've heard it said that Hodgson's self confidence faltered somewhat in Brazil and he took on board too much of Gary's defensively suspect attacking formation theories. I don't know if that has any merit, probably Roy leaked that one.
Taking over the coaching role at a huge club like Valencia who were going through a dubious time of transition and with half the team out injured, was not just a mere difficult task for a kid like Gary, it was doomed to end like this.

[DeLorean]

Any possible replacements for Gary? Mourinho seems to be the favourite.

You'd imagine Benitez as they'd love to have him back. I'm not sure Valencia would have enough potential for Mourinho to be tempted.

[geysir]

Ray Hudson is in fine form in beIN's coverage of El Clasico

He likened one player's role to that of the seeds inside a cucumber.
That could mean a lot of things, might mean nothing, might be a complement, might not be.

[geysir]

Such a difference not to have Mourinho involved in El Clasico.

[DeLorean]

Three years on I'm kind of used to him not being involved! I was delighted Real won. I actually can't stomach Barca at all regardless of aesthetics. I'd have preferred if Bale's perfectly good goal won it though. The referee made life tough for himself, booking Ramos after ten minutes for decent was a silly move as he ended up chickening out of giving him the second yellow about four or five times before he eventually did.

[geysir]

In that case probably Barca are best avoided, because witnessing another magical aesthetic goal from that twát Suarez, assisted by Messi (half decent) after the sleazy Neymar dribbled past 4 defenders, would be very bad for the health.:D

How did your stomach survive through most of the past 8 seasons?
5 LL 3 CL titles and likely to add to that lot this season.

[DeLorean]

Dissent I meant, not decent!

I haven't always disliked them, it's been a kind of gradual thing.

[The Fly]

I haven't always disliked them, it's been a kind of gradual thing.

Why can't you stomach them?

[DeLorean]

Why can't you stomach them?

Good question, like I said, it wasn't always so. Any reasoning might be flawed and/or petty. Alves and Mascherano bother me just by looking at them. There are probably others I should be more repulsed by, Busquets and Suarez in particular, but for some reason they don't bother me as much. My dislike may have started/heightened when Ancelotti took over at Real Madrid and Gareth Bale followed, I like these two chaps so maybe Barcelona became the enemy a little bit. I would have been respectful of their period of dominance from Rijkaard through to Guardiola, but never really took to the latter. I find him smug and pretentious and these aren't exactly traits I'd disassociate with the club generally. I suppose I was happy enough to see their dominance seemingly come to an end when they lost 7-0 on aggregate to Bayern Munich, not that I've any great love for them either. It's a little frustrating that they become so strong again, so soon, without seeming to do an awful lot (other than bring in the likes of Rakitic, Neymar and Suarez that is!). I've just had my fill maybe.

[BonnieShels]

Good question, like I said, it wasn't always so. Any reasoning might be flawed and/or petty. Alves and Mascherano bother me just by looking at them. There are probably others I should be more repulsed by, Busquets and Suarez in particular, but for some reason they don't bother me as much. My dislike may have started/heightened when Ancelotti took over at Real Madrid and Gareth Bale followed, I like these two chaps so maybe Barcelona became the enemy a little bit. I would have been respectful of their period of dominance from Rijkaard through to Guardiola, but never really took to the latter. I find him smug and pretentious and these aren't exactly traits I'd disassociate with the club generally. I suppose I was happy enough to see their dominance seemingly come to an end when they lost 7-0 on aggregate to Bayern Munich, not that I've any great love for them either. It's a little frustrating that they become so strong again, so soon, without seeming to do an awful lot (other than bring in the likes of Rakitic, Neymar and Suarez that is!). I've just had my fill maybe.


Drugs perhaps? :eek:

I've never really liked them and their dominance hurts. Aesthetically eugh... Aesthetics don't always entertain me.

It says it all that I was over the moon when Bayern (the most evil of them all) beat them a few years back. And that I was up for Juve in the CL final last year, despite their even more disgraceful acts over the decades. But Pirlo...

I think there's just something really smug about the whole club and there's always been this "holier than thou" attitude that emanates from them. With Real you know they are pure evil so all is well with them being the villains and you just get on with it, but with Barca... "Mes que une club"... me boll...

[Stuttgart88]

I'm going to Villareal v Levante at El Madrigal next Friday. My son's U10 school team has an annual football trip to Spain and it's his (i.e., MY!) turn this year.

According to the itinerary he has two matches against local teams and no fewer than 5 90 minute sessions "with Villareal CF" (whatever "with" means) at the first team's training ground. We're only there for a few days, two days involve morning and afternoon training.

We also get a tour of El Madrigal and a tour of the Nou Camp before flying home from Barcelona. Can't wait.

Any good players at Villareal or Levante I should be aware of?

[Stuttgart88]

Drugs perhaps? :eek:

I've never really liked them and their dominance hurts. Aesthetically eugh... Aesthetics don't always entertain me.

It says it all that I was over the moon when Bayern (the most evil of them all) beat them a few years back. And that I was up for Juve in the CL final last year, despite their even more disgraceful acts over the decades. But Pirlo...

I think there's just something really smug about the whole club and there's always been this "holier than thou" attitude that emanates from them. With Real you know they are pure evil so all is well with them being the villains and you just get on with it, but with Barca... "Mes que une club"... me boll...I really like Barcelona, although I am suspicious of their fitness levels in context of Spain's PED culture and reputation.

I do buy into the "more than a club" thing but I think it'd hard for all clubs with a rich tradition to stay true to their principles in the mega bucks age. I like that they are the anti-Franco institution, the nationalistic outliers, the anti-establishment establishment etc. I like how they play and (tax affairs aside) they have a brilliant role model in Messi.

[bennocelt]

Drugs perhaps? :eek:

I've never really liked them and their dominance hurts. Aesthetically eugh... Aesthetics don't always entertain me.

It says it all that I was over the moon when Bayern (the most evil of them all) beat them a few years back. And that I was up for Juve in the CL final last year, despite their even more disgraceful acts over the decades. But Pirlo...

I think there's just something really smug about the whole club and there's always been this "holier than thou" attitude that emanates from them. With Real you know they are pure evil so all is well with them being the villains and you just get on with it, but with Barca... "Mes que une club"... me boll...

Exactly, Barca give me a pain, they are the one of the biggest cheating teams in the game.................
also dont like Bayern:D

[BonnieShels]

I was really enjoying this tempestuous whingey display from Barca.

Then Messi scored goal #500.

Damn.

[Stuttgart88]

What are the respective head-to-head results in the matches between the top 3 teams?

[DeLorean]

Barca > Atletico > Real

Atletico Madrid 1-2 Barcelona
Barcelona 2-1 Atletico Madrid

Real Madrid 0-4 Barcelona
Barcelona 1-2 Real Madrid

Atletico Madrid 1-1 Real Madrid
Real Madrid 0-1 Atletico Madrid

[DeLorean]

Barcelona ended their slump in style with an 8-0 win away to Deportivo, Suarez helped himself to four. Atletico beat Athletic 1-0 away with a Torres goal. Benzema has just scored to give Real the lead near half time against Villarreal.

[geysir]

The last day was a bit tame at the top in the best league in the world and the toughest league title to win.
Even if the margins were slender, (as they say) the league placings do not lie and Barca the frontrunners virtually from day one, held on to their lead comfortably in the last game.

Late drama for Athletic Bilbao to leapfrogged over a flagging Celta de Vigo to nab a CL qualifier spot

Sevilla finish 12 points behind Villarreal, it should be a piece of cake for Liverpool to beat them in the EL final :)

[DeLorean]

Even if the margins were slender, (as they say) the league placings do not lie and Barca the frontrunners virtually from day one, held on to their lead comfortably in the last game.

It was a gallant attempt by Zizou to repair the Benitez damage but the loss of 17 points in Rafa's 18 games in charge was marginally too much to recover from in the end. Some difference between their records:




P
W
D
L
F
A
GD
Pts
Pts dropped


Benitez
18
11
4
3
47
18
+27
37
-17


Zidane
20
17
2
1
63
16
+47
53
-7

[DeLorean]

Pretty cool picture from The Examiner. (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/barcelonas-leap-of-faith-with-luis-suarez-gets-title-reward-399727.html)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/l/LuisSuarezcelebratesscoringGranadavBarcelonaMay16_ large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-399727

[DeLorean]

Valencia hung on with death grip determination onto their one goal lead v Madrid, excellent game and the atmosphere was unworldly. Not much love lost there between those two.

That has opened things up a little alright. A big weekend to follow with the Seville derby, Atletico Barca & Real travelling to Villarreal who seem to take a lot of points off the big boys.

[DeLorean]

Some welcome respite for a stuttering Real Madrid this weekend as Barcelona lost 2-1 at La Coruna.

Sergio Ramos the hero of the hour yet again when he headed Real's winner against Betis in the final ten minutes.

I saw this article on Danny's link to the website featuring Stephen Elliott's column about Roy Keane cancelling Sunderland's open top bus celebrations.

https://www.sportdec.com/app/article-single/dxefccxoow8u1mrc0dmlwczdi


Since that final [Champions League 2014 when Ramos headed a 94th minute equaliser] Ramos has scored another 21 goals for his club, with an amazing 18 of those coming from moments when Madrid were either drawing or behind. Ramos’s ability to get goals is one thing, but his instinct to get them when the team most needs them is perhaps his greatest attribute as a captain.

Make that 19 out of 22. Amazing stuff really.

[geysir]

LL proving to being the best and most fascinating league going. That was an el clasico to match the best of them and that was even before the last gasp winner. Messi's shirt tribute after scoring the winner has to be in the hall of fame tributes to a club and it's fans, considering the adrenaline affected moment that was in it. I think we can safely say that Mourinho polluted that league while he was there.

[DeLorean]

Definitely a game that should add to Messi's legacy, if that's even possible. After seemingly getting a couple of teeth knocked out or at least a bad blow to the mouth, albeit accidentally, and my main man Ramos trying to break him in two, it must have been some feeling to bury that at the end.

Both teams attack minded to a fault, Barca should never have let Real back in at 2-1 with an extra man but they continued to pour forward and leave gaps. Similarly Madrid should have tried to shut up shop at 2-2 but they left themselves exposed to the sucker blow as well. Bale injured yet again and a (3 game?) suspension for Ramos so a damaging night all round. They'll need to get back on track straight away midweek at La Coruna.

Other than the occasional misdemeanour on the sideline, how did Mourinho pollute the league exactly?

[BonnieShels]

Geysir has always had it out for Jose in fairness. Nothing tosee here.

I think Barca and their doctors pollute the league more tbh. (That's not to say Real and and Atleti are angels either)

[The Fly]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/18118668_777177615784320_96281998247507238_n.jpg?e fg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=49cf9868cc700a89c9985ade0cb83acf&oe=598BE0C5

[geysir]

Geysir has always had it out for Jose in fairness. Nothing tosee here.

I think Barca and their doctors pollute the league more tbh. (That's not to say Real and and Atleti are angels either)
To be fair, that's pure horse dung.:rolleyes:

[BonnieShels]

You mean you do like Jose.and always have?

That's a Damascene conversion to match Herr Dunphy.

[DeLorean]

To be fair, that's pure horse dung.:rolleyes:

In that case, my question remains, how did Mourinho pollute the league? Has he polluted all the other leagues he's managed in or was it just La Liga? You wouldn't be alone in thinking he pollutes football in general but I'm just curious.

I'm not sure how an El Clasico cracker four years after he departed can enforce whatever points you might have, but I'll keep an open mind. :)

[geysir]

You mean you do like Jose.and always have?

That's a Damascene conversion to match Herr Dunphy.

Straw man's argument alert.

[geysir]

In that case, my question remains, how did Mourinho pollute the league? Has he polluted all the other leagues he's managed in or was it just La Liga? You wouldn't be alone in thinking he pollutes football in general but I'm just curious.

I'm not sure how an El Clasico cracker four years after he departed can enforce whatever points you might have, but I'll keep an open mind. :)
I don't think we would have witnessed such a cracker (and the earlier el clasico this season) had Mourinho been in charge of Real Madrid, based on the evidence of events during his time in charge there, Madrid's general standard of excellence since his exit and the general atmosphere around el clasico confrontations despite the evident physicalities.
For my part, I should have written that he polluted Real Madrid, not the league, but (to some extent) that does stretch to Real Madrid polluting the league with the league's highlight derby game being affected in negative ways, on and off the pitch, not seen since his departure.
It's not just about what you refer to as the 'occasional misdemeanor' on the sidelines.
The opinion that he polluted Real Madrid is a widely enough held considered opinion, well documented. Even the exact word "polluted" is oft used to describe his effect. There were the fall outs with players, his perception of public humiliation re the Ramos incident, his paranoid and destructive responses to the humiliation, his response to Madrid legend Cassillas' attempts to reforge relationship in the national team. All in all, the antics of a classic chronic narcissist, weaving destruction in the environment in one of the top elite few clubs in the world.

[DeLorean]

The earlier El Clasico was far from a cracker though I thought. It was a pretty drab game with an exciting climax. There were plenty of El Clasico's of that sort (or better) during Mourinho's reign.

Mourinho is a pragmatic manager, he'll set him team up depending on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposition. Personally I love it and find it fascinating, although I couldn't defend some of his other antics over the years. Things unravelled badly at Madrid but his first two years there were a relative success, especially bearing in mind they were competing with one of the best sides ever at the peak of their powers, or close enough. They knew what they were getting when they appointed him so I think this talk of him embarrassing the club and such is a bit rich, which we've heard plenty of times since his departure.

It's easy to forget (or ignore) the exciting brand of football his team played for the most part while he was there. They had an incredible season in 2011/12, setting records all over the place, including a La Liga goalscoring high, yet he'll always be painted as a defensive minded coach regardless of what actually happens on the pitch. His Real side got tanked 5-0 by Barca early in his tenure, he was always going to try to implement a game plan to stifle them after that, as any proper manager would.