For or Aganist Winter Football

[legendz]

It's a fair point. Winter football is not the answer. A move to a 16 team Premier would've been something new, bring top flight football to more parts of the country. There is talk at the moment that Division One will be two sections of 8 below the Premier of 12. They could easily have one division of 8 below a Premier of 16 and work to build on the number of clubs in Division One through the A Championship.

[mrtndvn]

How on earth is sport supposed to thrive in the current conditions? Dublin practically shut down last week and you want us to market a product that gets people to stand outside for 2 hours in that weather? It's a ridiculous suggestion to begin with.

Summer/ Winter football isn't the cause of the LOI's problems, but for God's sake lets not make the near on impossible task of making the league into a sustainable identity harder for ourselves.

You don't need any evidence, its simply common sense.

[pineapple stu]

It's barely a point at all. If you want to say something's not the answer, say why it's not the answer. "Cancer is bad" isn't a point. That's the problem with this whole debate - people by and large are taking sides, sticking rigidly to their viewpoint and not offering a single mite of evidence in favour of their position.

[pineapple stu]

You don't need any evidence
Again, this is the whole problem. Of course you need evidence. This winter and last winter were bad; that's evidence, but it's also short-term thinking. Most of the ones before that weren't bad; that's also evidence.

So again - saying something that is ridiculous, or that it doesn't need evidence or that is self-evidently common sense is going to get this thread locked.

[passerrby]

over the years ive heard every argument for not attending LOI games from football is crap, not enough locals playing,facuilities are **** etc ,they are to me nonsense and excuses nothing more and the move from summer to winter is no different if you support your team/club you will be there regardless if you are a fair weather supporter you will find a excuse why you cant go.Summer football is not the solution to all our problems but it is the best time to view our league and ive never found one reason why a return to winter would help in any way.
.

[mrtndvn]

Stu, either way, it's not a massive problem. Someone said that because the league survived that winter football shouldn't be ruled out.
Simply "surviving " shouldn't be a barometer for anything, which was where I was going with my cancer example.

It won't make or break the league. I haven't done a survey, but I don't know anyone in this country who would prefer to stand outside in minus 3 compared to 10-15 degrees.

I love a good debate with valid points made on both sides, but there is no debate in this. It's a non issue.

It's such a non issue, I wish the moron's running our clubs and league would spend their time and energy more productively and work on some of the leagues actual problems.

[pineapple stu]

ive never found one reason why a return to winter would help in any way.
I honestly think there's pretty much nothing to choose either way. It's basically not that important in terms of helping the league improve.

[passerrby]

cant really say its a non issue while i strongly disagree with winter football im aware that some clubs feel very passiontly about this and are intitled to their opinion

[Lim till i die]

Can anyone give me 3 good reasons why Summer Football is so superior??

I'll give ye a hint "Europe" and "the weather" don't count.

[passerrby]

the answer is in the question summer is better than winter unless your sport is downhill skiing
anyway
1. better pitches
2. better football
3. travel (teams and Supporters)

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think this has been posted yet. Ex-Bohs striker Jon Daly has suggested Scottish sides should follow suit and adopt summer football.



Jon Daly signals support for summer football

Dundee United striker Jon Daly insists the SPL should switch to summer football like Ireland — and reap the benefits by watching their stock rise in Europe.


Dubliner Daly is convinced one of the key reasons Irish outfits like Bohemians and Shelbourne have punched above their weight in the European arena in recent seasons is the timing of their domestic season which runs from March until to November to beat the big freeze.

The Emerald Isle campaign just finished last month with champions Shamrock Rovers now looking forward to their foray into next season's Champions League (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/search/rf/sample/qs/Champions+League/qt/article_slideshow/qc/tag) qualifiers.

United skipper Daly, who led the Tangerines into Europe when they took on AEK Athens earlier in the season, would love to see Scotland copy their example as the current cold snap continues to wreak havoc here.

Daly said, "It's worked beyond all doubt back in Ireland so I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be just as successful here in Scotland.

"They always start the season around March time so when the first European involvement comes round there's nobody ring-rusty.

"Everyone is raring to go and well into their stride by then and that's something which has been borne out by results.

"Back there I know for a fact the teams there put a lot of their success in Europe down to the timing of the domestic season.

"The players themselves tell you they relish turning out in better weather (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/search/rf/sample/qs/Weather/qt/article_slideshow/qc/tag) when you're able to get the ball down and play, which is what you need to do when you go into Europe.

"That's why I think here in Scotland we'd do well to really consider a similar approach.

"It's clearly got its benefits when you look at the bigger all-round picture both here and abroad.

Profile


"The SPL (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/search/rf/sample/qs/SPL/qt/article_slideshow/qc/tag) obviously needs to try to keep up its profile outwith Scotland, and if they were to change things around I doubt if they'd regret it."

Irish football is on the up and so much so that the state-of-the-art Aviva Stadium in Dublin has been chosen as the venue for the glamour Europa League (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/search/rf/sample/qs/Europa+League/qt/article_slideshow/qc/tag) final in May.

Republic of Ireland national boss Giovanni Trapattoni (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/search/rf/sample/qs/Giovanni+Trapattoni/qt/article_slideshow/qc/tag) has also been busy scouring the Airtricity Irish League (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/search/rf/sample/qs/Airtricity+Irish+League/qt/article_slideshow/qc/tag) for home-grown talent to boost his squad.

Daly believes it makes perfect sense to close down in the bitter winter (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/search/rf/sample/qs/Winter/qt/article_slideshow/qc/tag) months.

Daly added, "I think the punters just about everywhere prefer to come out for a game when the weather is more favourable, which is true of Ireland as well.

"The crowds are up over there, which happens when there's a good product and the climate is more pleasant.

"There are a lot of other sporting attractions in Ireland so football has to make sure matches are played at the right time.

"They seem to have got it down to a fine art, though, so hats off to them for that.

"The crowds back there are healthy, too. It helps when you're not attempting to play games in the depths of winter when some people are finding it hard just to get out the house and get to work.

"To be honest, it's been horrendous here over the past week or so.

"At Dundee United (http://www.thecourier.co.uk/search/rf/sample/qs/Dundee+United/qt/article_slideshow/qc/tag), we've been restricted to indoor training recently which is never ideal.

"And this week it looks as though the gaffer will be giving us some beach running just to keep us ticking over."

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Sport/Football/article/8333/jon-daly-signals-support-for-summer-football.html

[Lim till i die]

the answer is in the question summer is better than winter unless your sport is downhill skiing
anyway

Somebody better call England, Scotland, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Holland, Greece, Brazil, Argentina and a couple more, tel them the error of their ways.

Eventhough all your 3 points basically boil down to "the weather is bad in December and January" I'll try deal with them anyway:


1. better pitches

Debatable, a rubbish pitch tends to be a rubbish pitch all year round. A small bit of investment from clubs would see a lot of pitches fixed anyway but thats a debate for a different thread.


2. better football

Humping the ball at the corner flag works just as well in Summer as Winter. 95% of the ball played in the First Division is appalling stuff, Rovers won the Premier with a tactic of "belt it in the general direction of Gary Twigg". If the football hasn't became samba like by now when will it happen??


3. travel (teams and Supporters)

Again that's really meh. People favouring Summer seem to have it in their heads that Ireland turns into a post apocalyptic waste ground during the winter months. They also assume that there would be no winter break when there's every possibility there could be one brought in. The league as is runs til mid November FFS.

[Lim till i die]

Dubliner Daly is convinced one of the key reasons Irish outfits like Bohemians and Shelbourne have punched above their weight in the European arena in recent seasons is the timing of their domestic season which runs from March until to November to beat the big freeze.

:bulgy:


Irish football is on the up and so much so that the state-of-the-art Aviva Stadium in Dublin has been chosen as the venue for the glamour Europa League final in May.

Republic of Ireland national boss Giovanni Trapattoni has also been busy scouring the Airtricity Irish League for home-grown talent to boost his squad.

:bulgy:


"The crowds back there are healthy, too.

:bulgy:


Ya, nice one Jon...............

[Eminence Grise]

Of course the crowds are healthy: summer football put an end to all the nasty coughs and colds you get standing round a field in the middle of winter.

[peadar1987]

Can anyone give me 3 good reasons why Summer Football is so superior??

I'll give ye a hint "Europe" and "the weather" don't count.

Give me two reasons Fianna Fáil shouldn't run the country.

I'll give you a hint, corruption and incompetence don't count! ;)

[Lim till i die]

I don't get it :S

[MariborKev]

Again that's really meh. People favouring Summer seem to have it in their heads that Ireland turns into a post apocalyptic waste ground during the winter months. They also assume that there would be no winter break when there's every possibility there could be one brought in. The league as is runs til mid November FFS.

LTID,

As someone who has spent the guts of the last decade driving to nearly every game in a season there is no contest in terms of travel between travelling home from games in the summer and in the winter there is no comparison. Anyone claiming otherwise is being deliberate obtuse.

[Lim till i die]

Anyone claiming otherwise is being deliberate obtuse.

Where in any of what you quoted did I claim otherwise??

My point (I put in a bit of bold and all to emphasise it) was that everyone is getting into a massive lather without having any facts. Now if there was a WINTER BREAK which is a distinct possibility, then I wouldn't see the problem.... because there would be no problem, the season already runs to mid November FFS. You can get bad roads in September, October, November, Febuary, even into March and April, I remember it flogged rain in June once, it was crazy!!!! :)

[paudie]

I honestly think there's pretty much nothing to choose either way. It's basically not that important in terms of helping the league improve.

Even if you were indifferent between summer and winter (i prefer summer BTW) the fact that the season is now summer gives it an advantage. You would have to have a VERY good reason to change and start the difficult process that switching seasons would involve and I can't think of a good enough reason to do it.

[Lim till i die]

start the difficult process that switching seasons would involve

?????

[paudie]

The problem with a winter break is that you don't know when the bad weather is going to be. In Germany & holland they have a better idea when the real cold weather is most years.

January is usually the worst month for weather but this year the last fortnight have been shocking. So you could have a winter break and still have 2 weeks where fixtures aren't possible.

[Lim till i die]

By the same token in our current setup you could easily have two weeks in September, October, November or March where fixtures aren't possible.

[paudie]

?????

So you think the LOI loving Irish media wouldn't make a big deal of the league switching seasons around for the second time in ten years.

If there was clear evidence of the benefits of a switch to winter soccer I could be convinced but I haven't seen it yet.

[paudie]

By the same token in our current setup you could easily have two weeks in September, October, November or March where fixtures aren't possible.

Of course. But over 5 or ten years I think you'd expect more games to be postponed if they were scheduled for December to February than Sept/Oct/Nov/March

[Lim till i die]

So you think the LOI loving Irish media wouldn't make a big deal of the league switching seasons around for the second time in ten years.

Unless martians bring down the mothership in Lissywoolen I don't think the meeja will make a big deal of the league full stop to be honest.


But over 5 or ten years I think you'd expect more games to be postponed if they were scheduled for December to February than Sept/Oct/Nov/March

Not if you had a five or six week break in December/January.

[peadar1987]

Unless martians bring down the mothership in Lissywoolen I don't think the meeja will make a big deal of the league full stop to be honest.

"United's next game will be against the Toffees at Goodison Park, so let's hope they can pick up all three points. And finally, in the Eircom League, an alien mothership has landed at Lissy... Liss... Over to George for the rugby!"

[MariborKev]

Not if you had a five or six week break in December/January.

Sure why don't we just play games every second month, keep everyone happy.....

LTID, there should be some burden of evidence to convince people of the reason for a switch back. I've yet to see/read/here it. The vast majority of people who go to games that I know prefer summer football. The people that I know that only take in the odd game are more likely to take them during the summer(their words, not mine). Anecdotal yes, but if there is not an overwhelming case for moving it to winter it shoudl stay where it it.

[Dodge]

LTID, there should be some burden of evidence to convince people of the reason for a switch back.
It's not like there was any evidence to make the change 8 years ago in fairness. Was just a whim then, if it moves will be a whim now...

[BonnieShels]

All the more reason for them to research this potential change fully.

[Lim till i die]

Sure why don't we just play games every second month, keep everyone happy.....

That would be stupid unlike a winter break which would make sense............


LTID, there should be some burden of evidence to convince people of the reason for a switch back.

I'm not advocating winter here at all. I've a fair idea that Limerick voted for Winter and I can see their reasoning but personally I'm one of the four people who voted "Meh". I just genuinely don't think for the reasons I've clearly stated that's it's that big a deal either way and I can't for the life of me understand the hysterics.

I'm still waiting for anyone at all to give me three good reasons why a March to November season is significantly better than an August to May one with a four to six week gap in the middle??

Just to clarify once again, I don't care either way and can't for the life of me understand the big deal. "European progress" and "De Wedder" are nonsense reasons for some of the extreme reaction in my honest opinion.

[BonnieShels]

Most people's opposition to a winter season stems from the fact that:
1. We currently have a summer season and no good reason, not one at all has been given for a return to winter soccer. Summer soccer is not a panacea for all of the LOI's ills but neither Is winter soccer.
2. We have bigger problems than the season being changed back. And these are the reasons of the LOI's malaise. Layout of the playing calendar and too many games against the same teams being the bigger ones imo.

As has been said before most of us here will still go to games no matter what. But why should that make it acceptable to change it.

[legendz]

I don't see the timing of the league as much of an issue for the 22 LoI clubs.
Playing teams 4 times a season is what I'd see as the big issue. A 16 team Premier looks far more attractive. All the top 6 from Division One this year would not be out of place in the Premier. Shel's, Limerick and Cork, all who missed out on the play-offs will hold their own in the Premier. It will spread top flight football to all parts of the country.
For the moment there doesn't seem to be any way of avoiding 4 series of games in Division One. Division One clubs though, especially the existing clubs in the division, will be better off in a national league of 8 below a top 16 than in the two groups of 8 below a top 12 with a split.
One reason I will put forward for a return to winter football is to have it on the same season as the Intermediate and Junior leagues. It'll be the best way to attract potential new clubs at the end of their own season in May, to go up a level the following season in August/September. If for any reason it doesn't work out, they could leave the A Championship in April/May and be back playing in the environs of an Intermediate/Junior league a few months later.

[davidatrb]

I jumped in on this one late. Im not going to have a hysterical reaction but my reasons for supporting summer soccer:

1. Why change? Honestly, why? Which clubs voted for the change and what were their reasons? Sell more soups at half time?
2. What are we going to do between the end of the Nov 2011 and Aug 2012?
3. Travelling conditions.
4. Playing conditions better in summer.
5. Spectator conditions, its a big enough difference summer and winter.
6. Most games are still played under flood lights anyway.
7. The teams reach their peak at the right time for the European competitions.
8. Less competition for headlines/spectators/etc during the summer when the Prem League is on a break.

Now, I agree many of them are not very major reasons. Anyway it is easy to reel off 8 reasons for summer football without even thinking. I have only stumbled across 1 or 2 reasons for winter football in two threads.

[brendy_éire]

More IL games called off tonight. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/9283628.stm
I doubt many will get played this weekend either.

I'd think we'd be mad to switch back to winter football.

[legendz]

GAA club Provincial games being called off around the country as well. The league finished at a good time of year.

[holidaysong]

Dundalk FC are for staying with summer soccer as per an interview with our CPO in today's Dundalk Democrat. Also, the club voted for an expansion of the PD to 12 teams but will vote against any plans to introduce a split at tonight's meeting in Abbotstown.

[BonnieShels]

Woooooooo... go Dundalk! I wholeheartedly support this endeavour.

[pineapple stu]

We're also pro summer soccer, I know.

[Lim till i die]

So PRO:

Dundalk
Monaghan
Dublin clubs
Cork
Derry

Split the league down the middle, ye can have Cork and Derry (the freak counties)

Bish, bash, bosh, job done. Where do I collect my expenses??

[BonnieShels]

John has them. They're at reception. Tell them Jesus sent ya.

[bullit]

Dundalk FC are for staying with summer soccer as per an interview with our CPO in today's Dundalk Democrat. Also, the club voted for an expansion of the PD to 12 teams but will vote against any plans to introduce a split at tonight's meeting in Abbotstown.
The Interview:

http://blackandwhitetown.squarespace.com/home/2010/12/15/dundalk-say-no-to-winter-football.html

[Albatross]

Would be mad to go back to winter football, there would have been no matches for the last few weeks and no gate receipt income for the clubs, how are they then expected to pay the players. Half of Europe either have summer soccer or close down for the winter so we are not alone.

[Sam_Heggy]

The Ulster Senior League had their AGM last night and 2 out of 18 proposed a switch back to Winter Football.

The vote went 16 - 2 in favour of Summer football.

[legendz]

With summer soccer staying, should more Junior and Intermediate leagues look at reverting to summer football as well?

[mrtndvn]

I hope the idiots that are running our local game that have wasted time talking about something so pointless have finally seen the light.

A debate disguising the merits of moving all loi games to planet Mars would have more relevance to growing our league.

[Charlie Darwin]

With summer soccer staying, should more Junior and Intermediate leagues look at reverting to summer football as well?
I think you'd have a hard time keeping kids interested if junior football went to a summer schedule.