Republic of Ireland V Russia - Friday, 8th October 2010 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[osarusan]

On an interesting note: Let's for argument's sake say Staunton was in charge for that game, and Ireland played the exact same and basically got thumped for 70 odd minutes in the same way. Would the crowd have gotten on his back? You bet your bottom dollar he would have gotten a bucketload of abuse. Trappatoni got little or none, even though he was quite clearly outplayed tactically-wise by Advocaat.
If Staunton had had Ireland on top of the group with two wins out of two, on the back of a qualifying campaing that, for all its faults, saw us come close to qualification for the world cup, then I don't think the crowd would have been on his back at all.

[paul_oshea]

If Ireland produce that result tonight, that's all the justification Trapp's team selection needs.

and what now then....

[SkStu]

just after watching the game. Decided to do so before reading this thread.

1) there is a frighteningly large number of posters here who know nothing about football or how to analyse a game - "plucky", "heads up", "nearly got back in it". Kudos to the posters who call it right.
2) once i read that the team was unchanged from the last game i knew we were on for a hiding. Kilbane (i love him) and Green proved against A&A that they have nothing to offer an international team.
3) why were some posters prepared to give Green the benefit of the doubt against Russia when he showed that he was not good enough to contain Armenia or Andorra very effectively. The guy is so blatantly mediocre he should have been chucked out after Armenia.
4) the Trappatoni cheerleaders need to get real. Just because he is an Italian and has been successful (at club level) doesnt mean his decisions, tactics, inclusions and ommissions are beyond questioning.
5) he has fallen out with more players than Roy Keane (may be an exagerration).
6) i think if he includes Green in another team from the start his position will become untenable.
7) Given should have moved. He is not as sharp as he used to be. An argument could be made to start Westwood.
8) call up the premiership players who are playing every week.
9) if youre going to exclude premiership players then are you worth the wages you are receiving to coach a team of championship standard players? Makes no financial sense to me. No wonder the FAI are so fcked.

im seriously ****ed off as these Russian players so clearly dont like it put to them and arent that great a team. A great chance to take control of the group was missed because of the long term lazy squad and team selection, lazy tactics and pig headed stubbornness.

[mark12345]

The Worm made a pretty abject and yet typical comment about our lads coming out with heads held hight. And as Jebus correctly points out, that is exactly what's wrong with our mentality as a nation.

Look I'm no Nostradamus but it's pretty sad when I (and I suspect thousands like me) can predict a week before the Russia game that Whelan and Green will be taken to the shops and that Kilbane will be swimming against the tide all night. I can see it, you can see it, but Trap can't? I lost my faith in him quite a while ago with his team selections.

Bottom line lads is it's imposters (save for perhaps three or four) playing for Ireland these days against proper footballers. We were taken to school (in how to hold possession and work the ball in tight areas by Russia, Armenia, and yes Andorra at times as well).

Because all our players play across the water we suffer from the English disease, which is no technical ability and no cohesion as a team. But Germany showed that up a few months ago, didn't they?

I remember when Switzerland came to Lansdowne Road a few years back for a crucial qualifier at the end of Mick's reign and they thumped us 4-1 (beleive that was the fianl score?). Point is that Mick had all of his players available for a week beforehand with no injuries, and deployed Keane and Duff up front. We pumped the ball long at every opportunity and got exactly nothing for our efforts, nada, zilch, zip.

It didn't work then, it didn't work last night. If we are unwilling or unable to play football (and Thank God, Richard Dunne alluded to it in his after match comments) then how can we ever expect to win a football tournament, or even qualify for one any longer?

[elroy]

The Swiss won 2-1 that night, wouldnt have called it a thumping either. Certainly was a lot better than last night.

Im still *****d off about last night. It was so bad. The biggest disappointment is the REAL opportunity missed. If we had won, we wouldve been 3 clear of Slovakia and 6 clear of Russia. We would be well and truly in the driving seat for automatic qualification. Whereas now, we are still very much in it, but dont have control over the group that we could have had. A win on Tuesday night would really put us back on track. Is it likely? Not in my opinion. We should hope to get a draw from there, regroup and develop our squad between now and the next qualifier in the new year.

[Stuttgart88]

Trap's reaction in picking the team for Tuesday and his tactical approach will be telling.

I'm not convinced McCarthy would solve that much, though poor old Green was taken to the cleaners. Gibson should come in. I'm more confident on the JOS / Dunne partnership and we need two fresh, mobile full backs who can use the ball.

Dunne's comments were bang on: we are allowed to play the ball, we just didn't have the courage to do so. Lumping it long all the time isn't acceptable. Giles' old chestnut "moral courage" was poignant. We were clueless both with and without the ball. Just lining up in 2 banks of 4 didn't work last night. We needed to be actually tackling too.

[EastTerracer]

I don't think he should be the Captain I hate the constant arm waving. Surely given the defensive set up we should have Richard Dunne as captain....


Agreed. Keane is always at it at both international and club level, he's not fit to be captain


Keane was shocking. His dive early i the first half was outragously bad. Complained about it for 5 minutes too (and in doing so missed a counter attack opportunity). Spent more time waving at the linesman than getting involved.


That's the Robbie Keane of pretty much every Ireland match. Such a whinger (says me whingin about him!)

I don't always agree with Eamon Dunphy but watch the clip below (17.25 in) - I agree 100% with everything Dunphy says about our captain.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/mns/2010/0907/euroextra_av.html

[Spudulika]

I'd seriously thought, having seen the Russians play against Slovakia, and even caught 2 of their training sessions before they flew out to Dublin, that we were odds on for a point, and most likely would win. The Russian team is a mess, I said on another thread (SkStu mentioned the fact too) that the Russians don't like getting a belt. I said it before the game and I even went to the bother of sending word back to Ireland in the hope that some grit was put in the Irish side to keep Russia off the ball and get stuck into them. And what happens, from the off Ireland didn't put in a tackle of note, lumped long balls forward and at times it looked like they froze on the night - this was what the Russian commentators said - remember, before the game the RUSSIANS were hoping to nick a point, at half time their panel were in shock, and when the 3rd goal went in the colour commentator (Dasaev the scumbag) actually said it had the makings of a rout. And yet the first scare was when Ireland ping ponged the ball in the small box and the same man said - this could be a long night for Russia if Ireland click.

Before the game Advocaat was 1 loss from the sack, his tactics and selections had failed, and his tactics and selections were still poor, but Ireland made the look like world beaters.

[mypost]

On an interesting note: Let's for argument's sake say Staunton was in charge for that game, and Ireland played the exact same and basically got thumped for 70 odd minutes in the same way. Would the crowd have gotten on his back? You bet your bottom dollar he would have gotten a bucketload of abuse.

v Cyprus (h) 2007.

And he got crucified for it.

[DeNiro]

What annoys me most about last night is that 9 of that team started in Paris, a game after which the mantra was regret and we'll have to start finishing off big teams, we'll better next time, etc. Yet, when we had it within our grasp to win the group over these two games, we've let it slip again.

I can't see any logical reason for our poor performance last night. We all know that Paris was a great performance, so what is stopping us repeating it. Maybe this current group just don't have a qualification in them. There are few leaders amongst them, most certainly Keane should not be captain. Combined with this, Trappatoni's stubborness isn't helping. What on earth he sees in Paul Green I don't know.

But more pertinently, what's he going to do about it in advance of Tuesday. He's lauded as this experienced manager, but you don't need experience to play that game. I wonder if this shows another end of his stubborness in that following the Paris performance, he said 'I'll dictate the way we play, not the players or the press'. It's hard to know where we're going to go from here. This is without doubt a set back. Slovakia could nail us on Wednesday.

Two other points:
Paul Green appeared to ask Arshavin for his shirt at the end of the game, but either he wasn't interested or didn't hear him. Couldn't really see him framing Paul Green's shirt and hanging it above the fireplace now. Closest Green would have got to it all night.

Also watching it on RTE, Dunphy (I think) made some comment as there was an image of Keane walking off the pitch. It was before a break. It went something like 'I'd pull him to the side and.....' His mic was obviously on and could be heard before they went to the ads.

[Stuttgart88]

Was there any contact for the penalty? It looked soft.

[Stuttgart88]

Slovakia could nail us I haven't even had a drink yet, but maybe we could nail them? Apart from at corners I thought they were awful against Armenia. Yeah, we were brutal but if we get a reaction who knows? Optimistic as always :)

[DeNiro]

I don't know, Stutts. Are we capable of nailing anyone? We've never really done in a qualification match apart from the usual Liechtensteins, etc in the 1990s.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd call 1-0 to us a nailing! By our away standards it would be.

[ifk101]

Was there any contact for the penalty? It looked soft.

It was a dive. And it wasn't only the dive Keane took yesterday.

[Stuttgart88]

Despite my anger at the performance, i have to admit when Long scored my brain did the calculations and i thought "Well, we're still top".Yep, it was a bit of a John Sheridan v Spain moment, though I was hoping it'd turn out to be be a Frank Stapleton v Spain moment.

Last night was like both the Poland and Australia friendlies under Trap.

[Stuttgart88]

It was a dive. And it wasn't only the dive Keane took yesterday.The one in the first half was ridiculous alright.

[ifk101]

I'd drop St Ledger (who should have been sent off last night btw) for Slovakia. JOSH and Dunne are our best partnership in the centre. I'd start Foley at right full.

Green has to go. Replace with Gibson.

Just thinking back to the time we played Norway away and we totally controlled the pace of that game in the first half before the rain made it a lottery. There was passages in that game where we kept the ball within the team for 2-3 minutes at a time. Last night we couldn't string two passes together.

[Noelys Guitar]

I didn't think Gibson did too badly when he came on last night (Dunphy was out of order calling him brain dead). And I would start him on Tuesday. I agree St Ledger was very lucky to stay on the pitch but he also made some last ditch saving tackles and he had to cover for Kilbane, Whelan and Green. But Dunne (who otherwise was excellent)was also skinned by Arshavin and I thought he was going to give away a peno (thankfully he resisted the tackle). Trap won't make wholesale changes so I can only see Gibson coming in. Though probably in place of Whelan and not Green. As for all those having a go at Keane. I thought he played the way he always plays. He is frustrating but who won us the peno and scored it to get us back in the game. He also beautifully held up a ball in the box for McGeady to have a shot. He got no service and his playing partner Doyle had one of his worst games for Ireland and was rightly taken off.

[AlaskaFox]

From the newspaper round-up here:
http://greenscene.me/2010/10/ireland-v-russia-newspaper-roundup/

Gazetta della Sport

“At 1-0 up Dick Advocaat’s men began to dominate. They were impeccable in possession, and deadly on the counterattack. Ireland were in shock, weak in midfield, and sterile in attack, could have easily been further behind if not for the imprecise Arshavin.”

Couldn't have been more right.

[Charlie Darwin]

You watch Glee?
Everybody watches Glee.


Attended my first Ireland game in a while last night. As ever gave me a better perception of the team than watching on TV did. I hadn't really noticed bhow slow St ledger was for instance. Completely out of his depth. Kilbane, who I love, literaly didn't do a single thing of merit all night. Looked frightened of the ball. Whelan was on his own in the middle and didn't cope well. Poor Paul Green. Doubt he'd get into Rovers or Bohs midfield. Genuinely felt sorry for him as he wasn't lacking in effort. Lawrence and McGeady were woeful. At lest McGeady kept plugging away and always wanted the ball. Doyle worked hard but mislaid a few easy passes (things like laying off behind the winger rather than putting it front of them). Keane was shocking. His dive early i the first half was outragously bad. Complained about it for 5 minutes too (and in doing so missed a counter attack opportunity). Spent more time waving at the linesman than getting involved.

Bar a plucky 10 minutes around the goals (and a frantic minute or so before Russia scored), Ireland were far, far behind Russia all over the park.

Still at least the Stadium is excelent
I think you actually managed to get everything wrong. Perhaps you should stay at home more often.


http://greenscene.me/2010/10/player-ratings-ireland-v-russia/

player ratings for the game


Kevin Doyle – 6
Very frustrating night for Doyle as he struggled to win any flick ons against the tall and physical Russian central defensive pairing. Booked needlessly in the second half. Difficult for the guy when all he had to work with was balls huffed up from defence, and then had to compete in the air with Ignashevich who is a good 6 inches taller than him. Just not his night.
hahaha what? Ignashevich is at best an inch taller than Doyle. Perhaps he just looked taller because he was jumping.



I'd drop St Ledger (who should have been sent off last night btw) for Slovakia. JOSH and Dunne are our best partnership in the centre. I'd start Foley at right full.

Green has to go. Replace with Gibson.
Green will have to play on Tuesday. I can't accept that Whelan is anything close to being fit and on current form Green is the more effective of the two. I don't think he has a long term future with us but this week he is the better player. Gibson has to come in, especially as Trapattoni has some fundamental aversion to playing Fahey in his natural position.

[elroy]

Yep, it was a bit of a John Sheridan v Spain moment, though I was hoping it'd turn out to be be a Frank Stapleton v Spain moment.

Last night was like both the Poland and Australia friendlies under Trap.

With the above in mind, is there any reason why Slovakia are shown as top in the table on the UEFA website? We're third.

http://en.uefa.com/uefaeuro2012/standings/index.html

[Charlie Darwin]

It seems to be based on head to heads. Russia beat us and Slovakia beat Russia therefore they're top.

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't think there was much wrong with Dodge's post, though the LOI reference was a bit melodramatic. The stadium was excellent!

Was thinking after I suggested Gibson for CM that actually Fahey would probably be better.

A bold move would be to play 4-5-1, drop Robbie and play Whelan, Gibson & Fahey, flanked by LL and McGeady. Nobody should be undroppable.

I actually thought Long did well in his short time on the pitch. Looks like a fat boy but is very athletic.

[carloz]

hahaha what? Ignashevich is at best an inch taller than Doyle. Perhaps he just looked taller because he was jumping.
He is two inches taller than him. I exagerated. But he controlled Doyle in the air, which very few defenders do

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think Robbie is undroppable but I don't think you could play Doyle up front on his own at this point in time. Perhaps if Gibson was performing for Man United he could be employed as an attacking midfielder, but right now Keane is by far our most creative player and I can't see us creating much without him. Doyle is a wonderful footballer but he can't carry an entire team on his own like Torres can.


He is two inches taller than him. I exagerated. But he controlled Doyle in the air, which very few defenders do
haha sorry, I didn't realise you wrote that. But Ignashevich gave away a lot of free kicks on Doyle too (as did Berezudskiy) - he has a Kevin Davies-like ability to compete with every defender for every ball. He didn't have as much of it his own way as he did against Armenia but he was playing against more physically imposing players.

[John83]

... trapatonni is not a particularly good manager at all and only gets away with it because in general irish people have low expectations(all walks of life and it includes on soccer team)
Yeah, that must be it. One of the most successful managers active in the game hasn't got a clue what he's doing. :loser:

[Charlie Darwin]

Trapattoni suggests the first goal was offside (as well as not being a foul to begin with)

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2010/1009/1224280727507.html

[rebelmusic]

Trapattoni suggests the first goal was offside (as well as not being a foul to begin with)

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2010/1009/1224280727507.html

Midfield comments at the end are interesting. Seems to be more or less saying he has crap options for CM

[geysir]

Robbie was clipped, absolutely no doubt.

And if Trap had taken off Green instead of Whelan, I really would have questioned his sanity.

[Noelys Guitar]

Players who should improve on Tuesday are Lawerence, Doyle and Whelan (if he plays). We have shown under Trap that we can bounce back after what was a major set back yesterday for a whole variety of reasons. An improved performance from those three mentioned could make all the difference in a game I feel we have to win if we want to top the group. We have to play as we did in Paris.

[seanfhear]

Trapattoni suggests the first goal was offside (as well as not being a foul to begin with)

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2010/1009/1224280727507.html
I agree with him on this but we were given a damn good hiding last night though the final scoreline does not make that clear.

[seanfhear]

Players who should improve on Tuesday are Lawerence, Doyle and Whelan (if he plays). We have shown under Trap that we can bounce back after what was a major set back yesterday for a whole variety of reasons. An improved performance from those three mentioned could make all the difference in a game I feel we have to win if we want to top the group. We have to play as we did in Paris.
Has Whelan been playing much for Stoke this season and if he has'nt is the reason that he is having some fitness problems.

Perhaps Marc Wilson would be the player best suited to fitting into Traps style. There is not enough time before Tuesday for major style changing.

[Noelys Guitar]

Didn't think there was much wrong with Dodge's post, though the LOI reference was a bit melodramatic. The stadium was excellent!

Was thinking after I suggested Gibson for CM that actually Fahey would probably be better.

A bold move would be to play 4-5-1, drop Robbie and play Whelan, Gibson & Fahey, flanked by LL and McGeady. Nobody should be undroppable.

I actually thought Long did well in his short time on the pitch. Looks like a fat boy but is very athletic.

From the man himself Stuttgart
“I don’t think I could consider playing with just one striker. Other teams can do it because they have more players to choose from in midfield.”

He did add one or two changes for Tuesdays game. My guess Gibson and one that might throw us all. McShane. I have a feeling going by that interview today he might play O'Shea in midfield.

[shakermaker1982]

I think the Trap will make changes. Foley and Fahey will get a run out. Pity Wilson hasnt been given a run out so he could slot in as a defensive MF.

[shakermaker1982]

If he plays O'Shea in mf then I would consider crying. O'Shea was put in there against Everton a few weeks back and was mr invisible.

[SkStu]

Yeah, that must be it. One of the most successful managers active in the game hasn't got a clue what he's doing. :loser:

Paul Green.

[geysir]

I'll wait for the Tuesday game before considering a review of the first phase of the Qualifiers. The team and manager have earned a right of reply to Friday's game.

[John83]

Paul Green.
There's a difference between "is beyond question" and "isn't a particularly good manager". I'm utterly sick of the kind of moron who sees his team have one bad game and immediately claims that the experienced and successful manager of his team is some sort of clueless moron.

[Noelys Guitar]

If he plays O'Shea in mf then I would consider crying. O'Shea was put in there against Everton a few weeks back and was mr invisible.

I'm guessing Shakermaker. But here is his exact quote “Of course, we will look for one or two fresh players and one or two changes are possible. If he means fresh players does he mean those who played no part or those who came on as as sub? And he also lamented our lack of quality midfielders. I can't see Foley getting the nod ahead of McShane if he decides to move O'Shea (if not midfield then LB) And I feel playing McShane at right back with O'Shea moving to left back (or midfield) is a better option than leaving Kilbane in the side. By the barest of margins.

[geysir]

Wilson is in the squad? surely he can do bit of holding?

[SkStu]

There's a difference between "is beyond question" and "isn't a particularly good manager". I'm utterly sick of the kind of moron who sees his team have one bad game and immediately claims that the experienced and successful manager of his team is some sort of clueless moron.

yes but when you do clueless things like including Paul Green in a competitive game against Russia when he has already shown he is not even close to this level then you can probably see why these sort of comments come up.

[seanfhear]

Wilson is in the squad? surely he can do bit of holding?
Wilson should probaly come in (Tis a pity that he has not already been given more game time (friendlies)

Perhaps this game has brought the possibility of a Wilson, McCarthy midfield to the fore.

To be honest you don't know how some combinations will work out until they are tried

[Stuttgart88]

Trapattoni suggests the first goal was offside (as well as not being a foul to begin with)

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2010/1009/1224280727507.htmlDunne was defintely harshly penalised for their first goal, and two of their goals were deflections. So, if Trap really was a lucky manager we might have got away with it. No complaints though, Russia were totally and utterly dominant. I siad it here loads of times before - I love watching eastern Europeans play football. They find angles that don't exist in our game and they take positions that we never take, not to mention total and utter comfort on the ball. I'd say the term "channel" doesn't exist most footballing languages. I actually prefer eastern European style than Latin style football.

[Crosby87]

I wonder what the attitude on the Slovakian side is today.
Being at home will also bring pressure.....

[shakermaker1982]

Wilson is in the squad? surely he can do bit of holding?

He's in the squad but I don't think the Trap would throw him straight into a qualifier. I'd love it if he did. I dont think he could play as badly as the other two last night. It's going to be really interesting to see what kind of side he puts out. We've been spanked before but only in friendlies. Will he stick with what he has and give them a chance to redeem themselves?

[shakermaker1982]

I'm guessing Shakermaker. But here is his exact quote “Of course, we will look for one or two fresh players and one or two changes are possible. If he means fresh players does he mean those who played no part or those who came on as as sub? And he also lamented our lack of quality midfielders. I can't see Foley getting the nod ahead of McShane if he decides to move O'Shea (if not midfield then LB) And I feel playing McShane at right back with O'Shea moving to left back (or midfield) is a better option than leaving Kilbane in the side. By the barest of margins.

Your scaring me even more now! McShane at RB?! Even with a torn cartilage I think I could hobble about and do a better job Tuesday night. If I was given the horrible choice of picking between

A) stick with same 11
B) O'Shea in midfield
C) McShane at RB

I'd go A! B and C = heavy defeat.

[Sullivinho]

I have a feeling going by that interview today he might play O'Shea in midfield.

Gawd I hope you're wrong. Don't fancy O'Shea in midfield one little bit.


Wilson is in the squad? surely he can do bit of holding?

Called up as a replacement so probably doesn't figure too prominently in Trap's schema, unfortunately.

[drummerboy]

In all reality we should have expected this result anytime over the last 18 months. Its arrived now. Whelan and especially Green have been shown up. Surely its time to try McCartty in midfield and possibly even Garvan. Ward should be tried at left full. Then there's Wilson, Walters, FOLEY who is in the squad, and a f ew more who escapes my mind at the moment.

[Alf Honn]

On the topic of changes for Tues, it's amazing listening back to the rte coverage how biased towards Trap Brady is.

Not once during the half hour of punditry does he offer any alternative to Trap's team, instead sneering at email questions from these 'people on the internet' as he refers to fans passionate enough to make their point. His sarcastic comment that the last query on McGeady not tracking back was the only valid point of the night shows up his arrogance.

When asked by Bill whether McCarthy should be in the team, he took a swerve by responding 'don't ask me hypothetical questions'. This is what we get from someone paid a couple of grand per gig. Souness, Moran or Irwin would offer a better and more impartial analysis.