Republic of Ireland V Russia - Friday, 8th October 2010 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[tricky_colour]

Agreed. Keane is always at it at both international and club level, he's not fit to be captain

To be fair Dunne is no saint (and I am knocking him for it either), he is not beyond pulling the odd shirt, it's all part of the game.

[boovidge]

slovakia's results earlier means this isn't a disaster. A win on tuesday will still have us in a great position.

[TrapAPony]

slovakia's results earlier means this isn't a disaster. A win on tuesday will still have us in a great position.

True but there badly needs to be changes to the team.

[boovidge]

We've lost to Russia, a nation much bigger than ours and a with a better football team player for player. Let's not get carried away. people on here are actually calling for Robbie being stripped of the captaincy ffs, what would that really achieve? Who could we really replace other than duff for mcgeady and andrews for Green? Putting in McCarthy (even though i think he should be in the squad) isn't going to make us world beaters. Let's see what happens against Slovakia and assess from there.

[gastric]

While we might wish for changes, I would love to see McCarthy play, the reality is Trap is stubborn and will make little or no change. The Slovakians will be peeved at their performance tonight, but I suspect our performance will be good enough to at least get us a draw.

[Crosby87]

Will it be the same starting lineup barring injury?

[rebelmusic]

He seemed to indicate in the post match interview there would be changes. I just dont want to see Green and Slovakia should be Kilbane's last game. Time to get a new option in the Norway friendly.

[Crosby87]

I spent most of last nite twisting and turning in my bed trying to come up with a reasonable justification for Paul Green's inclusion in the middle of the park. He is a player who has forged out an average career for the last 10 yrs in the lower echelons of the Leagues with the mighty Doncaster for the most part and Derby more recently. His own club supporters don't even rate him if the posts in Derby County's fans forums are anything to go by. He is no spring chicken either so any hope of a meteoric transformation into an accomplished international midfielder appears far-fetched in the extreme (Keith Andrews is very average so using him as an example in a counter argument doesn't hold any credence here). He was terrible against Armenia and Andorra.

The only paltry argument that I can make is that perhaps it is "evidence" of the comprehensive scouting network in place that is allowing the management to unearth all these "diamonds." This is the reason in my humble opinion why Trapp is pushing for Green so much. James McCarthy has been a regular starter in the Premiership since January and has impressed every time I have watched him. It is an absolute no brainer. He should be starting tonight, not Green. It would be far less of a "risk" to start McCarthy than to start a nothing player who even looked out of his depth against the formidable Armenia and Andorra.

Fingers crossed Green will not be exposed too much 2nite. I also fear for the hapless Kilbane. Would it not make more sense to play a regular, accomplished premiership right back like Foley and switch O'Shea to left back where he has excelled for United on numerous occassions. But perhaps that is much too logical for the management team to contemplate. I think Ireland should do it tonight, 2-1. Despite my ever increasing frustrations with the management team, I will be giving my 100% backing to the Boys in Green 2nite. Best of luck lads!!

This was a good post in retrospect.

[mandrake]

ohh errmmmmm:fim:

exactly... get back in your box...he's been good
dundalk fan huh

[Charlie Darwin]

It has to be said that the doomsayers have been vindicated to a large extent tonight. I was willing to defer to Trap's greater wisdom on Paul Green, but he just looked out of his depth tonight (although he was put in the unfortunate position of having to do Whelan's job as well - I really hope he was carrying an injury and wasn't just as lost as he looked).

I don't think it's entirely down to Trap's tactics - the players simply didn't do jobs they've shown themselves capable of - but it does raise a lot of questions about the effectiveness of the system when are playing against superior sides. It would be one thing if we were playing 11 men behind the ball, Switzerland-style football, but despite generally playing without the ball we do seem to be set up to score goals.

I don't subscribe to the view that it's impossible to play 4-4-2 against 4-5-1, but for a side that already struggles to impose itself in midfield, it does seem like we need an extra body in there, whether it's by shunting Doyle out to the wing or having Keane play deeper permanently. Personally, I wouldn't mind trying Gibson in an advanced role ahead of Andrews/Green and Whelan.

I think our players' lack of game time was really telling, probably moreso than in previous years. Dunne looked lethargic and Whelan was almost non-existant, although after a rock opening few minutes, Robbie looked really sharp (which begs the question why he's been so poor for Spurs). I am conflicted over Whelan: after tonight, I think it might be a good thing that he could miss Tuesday, but I'm fearful of a midfield in which Green is the most experienced player.

[carloz]

I dont know if anyone else saw it, but Paul Green showed more determination to run over to Arshavin after the match to swap jerseys than he showed in the bloody game. Defended him before but cant know. I think Trap kept him on as he was aware of the reaction he would get if substituted. There were people i the east stand screaming blue murder at the guy.
I hope the papers dont go on about the brave battling Irish tomorrow. 3-2 was very flattering to us. They completly and utterly outplayed us to the point that is was embarrassing to watch at stages. Serious serious flaws have been shown tonight.
Thought the ref had a disastrous game.
Long impressed me with his ability in the air when he came on.
We really seem to have no ideas whatsoever beyond the long ball

[The Fly]

I can't remember whether it was in the first or the second half, but one thing I did notice was Barry Maguire, seated in the bottom left of the screen, when the camera focused in on Alex McLeish during the match.

So unless I'm very much mistaken, or he has a doppelganger, I'd say there's a firm declaration on the cards!

[carloz]

Just another point, and it is only a little one, but why does Robbie Keane be so slow getting out when an attack breaks down. he sluddges back staying in an offside position for a good minute. Should we win the ball back quickly then he is simply not an option. Baffling and he actually does it all the bloody time.

[gastric]

Fly, in relation to Maguire that performance may have put him off, rather than encourage him to declare!

[Qwerty]

So Russia can play some football, we should try that some time!

It was always going to be a difficult game, 4 of the starters are playing in the Championship and Paul Green will never play in the EPL. He just smacks of lower league football like no player in a green shirt has since say Jon Douglas...basically he is there because of his work-rate and nothing else because he has nothing else.

Let's face it we just can't beat decent teams any more and Russia were certainly a very decent side indeed, they deserved that win. Holland 2001 .. will a decade pass without a home win against a decent side? Hopefully I'm having a senior moment and have forgotten a decent scalp. Oh yeah away: Scotland 87.

[Charlie Darwin]

I dont know if anyone else saw it, but Paul Green showed more determination to run over to Arshavin after the match to swap jerseys than he showed in the bloody game. Defended him before but cant know. I think Trap kept him on as he was aware of the reaction he would get if substituted. There were people i the east stand screaming blue murder at the guy.
That's very unfair. He was basically doing Whelan's job as well as his own, when Whelan really should have been guiding the less experienced/talented player.

Too late on the "brave battling Irish" score - the Guardian have already published theirs online.

I agree on Robbie - I'm often frustrated by his lack of desire to get back and hold the line, but it's a common problem with strikers.

[Nipper]

Whoever mentioned Green licking Arshavin's hole, good shout. An absolute disgrace, an abortion of a performance.

[The Fly]

Fly, in relation to Maguire that performance may have put him off, rather than encourage him to declare!

It may also encourage him to believe that he may get some game time on Tuesday. ;)

[Nipper]

The Ron Howard-looking idiot couldn't trap a retarded mouse. Gave him the benefit of the doubt til I saw that PATHETIC final whistle cameo.**** off you clown.

[mypost]

On the penalty - I thought we were a bit fortunate. Keane was definitely clipped, but I don't think the defender even knew Keane was coming in behind him. No real protests from the defender though.

Other than that, it was just an awful performance.

That said, despite this shocker, we're still very much in the thick of things, and a good perfromance in Zilina to bounce back from tonight would make things feel a lot better.


Too late on the "brave battling Irish" score - the Guardian have already published theirs online

Keane's penalty was a penalty, was right in line with it, and it wasn't the worst foul in the world, but it was a foul and it was a penalty. Should have had another in injury time with the last kick of the game, an even more obvious pull back not punished by a poor referee.

The 2 goals have kept us top of the group, but we could be 4th come Tuesday, if the results go against us. It's going to be a topsy-turvy group.

[theworm2345]

I can't remember whether it was in the first or the second half, but one thing I did notice was Barry Maguire, seated in the bottom left of the screen, when the camera focused in on Alex McLeish during the match.

So unless I'm very much mistaken, or he has a doppelganger, I'd say there's a firm declaration on the cards!
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1882/capturevqp.png

[Charlie Darwin]

Isn't that the kid from Glee? Didn't realise he was a fan of the Boys in Green.

[The Fly]

Isn't that the kid from Glee? Didn't realise he was a fan of the Boys in Green.

You watch Glee?

[Philly]

Whoever mentioned Green licking Arshavin's hole, good shout. An absolute disgrace, an abortion of a performance.

I noticed that too. Straight after the final whistle, Green went right to Arshavin without even looking upset at the result. He acted like a tourist rather than an Irish international who gave a damn.

I have not been one of those knocking him lately, I thought I would give him a chance. After last night, it is blatantly clear he is simply not a good enough player to compete at this level. I know it has been said a million times before here, but God Trap, just give McCarthy a shot and maybe even Maguire or something. We need to try new things in the middle of the park.

[Adrock]

I noticed that too. Straight after the final whistle, Green went right to Arshavin without even looking upset at the result. He acted like a tourist rather than an Irish international who gave a damn.

I have not been one of those knocking him lately, I thought I would give him a chance. After last night, it is blatantly clear he is simply not a good enough player to compete at this level. I know it has been said a million times before here, but God Trap, just give McCarthy a shot and maybe even Maguire or something. We need to try new things in the middle of the park.
It must be hugely exciting for a guy with such limited talent to find himself on the pitch with real footballers like Arshavin so he's got to make the most of the souvenirs for the occasion I suppose. Green is clearly an impostor as an international footballer but then why should we be surprised - he's a mediocre player at a lousy club. He's involved in the national squad because of the novelty value he offers in giving Trap a new recruit for the new campaign.
Penalty was a bit soft too...............
On the positive side I think folks should cut Mcgeady some slack as he was our only classy looking player out there and is going to become increasingly important to us in the years to come.

[rebelmusic]

Totally agree, McGeady doesn't deserve any hassle from last night. He was the only player who did anything decent for us in the whole match. I think he's just easy to pick on sometimes and granted he could have tracked back better - at the same time at better full back would have lessened the need.

[shakermaker1982]

Can Barry Macquire pass a ball? If so I'd play him Tuesday. Seriously.

The manager messed up big time last night. The midfield got butchered last night and I know Whelan/Green are never going to be top class players but they were outnumbered and outgunned in midfield because of our obsession with 4-4-2. To stem the tide the Trap should have put an extra body in the centre of midfield to congest things and make things more difficult for Russia. Whether that was taking off Doyle or Keane then so be it. 4-4-2 is out of date and we need to adapt to the changes taking place in world football.

I've just read some of Dunne's comments about the players always taking the easy option and he is spot on. Lumping the ball forward is the easy way out. Green and Whelan should be making themselves available at all times. To be fair to the Russians they pressed us superbly last night. A masterclass in how to make sure the opposition panic when they have the ball. Our pressing? Keane and Doyle running themselves into the ground chasing lost causes whilst the other 8 players are miles away, sitting deep so the Russians could play keep ball. You press as a team, otherwise the exercise is pointless.

Given - 4. Spilled the free kick, kicking was poor and doesn't look get sharp. Get a new club asap.
O'Shea - 5.
Kilbane - 4. A full back should always try and stop crosses coming in. YOU NEVER EVER DO THIS. You let the winger cross the ball?
Dunne - 6. Best of a bad bunch.
St Ledger - 5
McGeady - 6 looked dangerous but tried to do too much on his own. A threat though and maybe it's worth playing him behind Keane or Doyle on Tuesday?
Lawrence - 5. Looked slow and off the pace.
Green - 3. Not up to it and I feel sorry for the guy because he does get a lot of criticism. Shouldn't start again.
Whelan - 2. Worst player on the pitch. I remember him trying to pass a simple ball out wide to Kilbane in the second half and he kicked it out for a throw in. Watch the game again and you'll notice he is half jogging back when Russia are breaking away. He's either injured or not match fit. Either way he shouldn't have started.
Keane - 6. Worked on scraps. Tried his best but please stop diving. The one in the first half was a disgrace and I don't like cheats. Sort it out.
Doyle - 6. Won a fair few headers but Russia were ready for him. Why? Because we are so predictable. O'Shea/Kilbane/St Ledger have ball for 2 seconds, panic and then lump it to Doyle. Russia make sure Doyle is tightly marked and surprise surprise we've lost the ball again.

Long - 8. Breath of fresh air. The only Irish player with proper pace (Coleman is quick but the Trap won't risk him yet)

We need to go for the win on Tuesday. Slovakia are under pressure and confidence will be brittle. If we lose then it's game over and we might as well start building for 2014.

Team for Tuesday?

It's a difficult one. If he picks that same 11 then I'll be extremely pi$$ed off. Changes have to be made.

[mypost]

our big obsession with 4-4-2. 4-4-2 is out of date and we need to adapt to the changes taking place in world football.

Changes have to be made.

4-4-2 is what has us top of the group this morning, and what got us to within 17 minutes of a WC spot. Outdated? Rubbish.

Sometimes, you just have to admit we were beaten by a better side, and Russia were a better side last night. A change in formation would have made no difference.

[geysir]

McGeady - 6 looked dangerous but tried to do too much on his own. A threat though and maybe it's worth playing him behind Keane or Doyle on Tuesday?

That's a thought, but I don't thinks so, McGeady was at his least effective playing inside last night or we just cant change our game like that mid stream.. He is at his best out wide and least effective playing inside.
Whelan is the player who should have been leading the line and getting stuck in at CM, with Green as assistant. Whelan should have been replaced after 10 minutes. He virtually left Green totally exposed with no help at CM in the 1st half.
Lawrence was out of his depth out there and made little impact in the game. Probably because he is popular, hardly no one mentions that he had a stinker. Yet McGeady gets flak, quite bizarre really. We were very poorly prepared for this game - mental preparation/tactically and we were cruelly exposed in all areas - even Given. Classier teams than us have come before, dominated long periods and made us look primitive, but we have been able to hang on, keep some composure and get back into the game.
Although we were awful, I'd expect much better on Tuesday.

[shakermaker1982]

4-4-2 is what has us top of the group this morning, and what got us to within 17 minutes of a WC spot. Outdated? Rubbish.

Sometimes, you just have to admit we were beaten by a better side, and Russia were a better side last night. A change in formation would have made no difference.

We've beaten Andorra and Armenia. I'm not saying 4-4-2 should never be played again but when our two central midfielders are Whelan and Green and we're coming up against a team as fluid as Russia then maybe it's a good idea to make things a little bit difficult for them and match up with them man for man in midfield. I'd have played 4-4-2 if I had a prime Roy Keane. I'd play 4-5-1 if I had Paul Green/Whelan and co if I was coming up against Russia/Spain/Brazil/Argentina/Germany. You adapt. Better teams with better players than us adapt all the time to the threats on offer from the opposition.

Playing the same formation and same tactics every game makes us predictable. Advocaat admitted as much earlier in the week.

[Dodge]

Attended my first Ireland game in a while last night. As ever gave me a better perception of the team than watching on TV did. I hadn't really noticed bhow slow St ledger was for instance. Completely out of his depth. Kilbane, who I love, literaly didn't do a single thing of merit all night. Looked frightened of the ball. Whelan was on his own in the middle and didn't cope well. Poor Paul Green. Doubt he'd get into Rovers or Bohs midfield. Genuinely felt sorry for him as he wasn't lacking in effort. Lawrence and McGeady were woeful. At lest McGeady kept plugging away and always wanted the ball. Doyle worked hard but mislaid a few easy passes (things like laying off behind the winger rather than putting it front of them). Keane was shocking. His dive early i the first half was outragously bad. Complained about it for 5 minutes too (and in doing so missed a counter attack opportunity). Spent more time waving at the linesman than getting involved.

Bar a plucky 10 minutes around the goals (and a frantic minute or so before Russia scored), Ireland were far, far behind Russia all over the park.

Still at least the Stadium is excelent

[mypost]

We've beaten Andorra and Armenia.

Playing the same formation and same tactics every game makes us predictable.

So playing 4-5-1 every time would make us less predictable so? We're conservative enough with 4-4-2, imagine how boring we'd be with one man upfront?

Armenia and Andorra have to be beaten as much as anyone else, Slovakia will explain that. Russia are a good technically gifted side, but they're not Germany, Italy, or Brazil, they don't have a great record in Dublin. They played well last night, but they're just as capable of dropping points in Skopje next week, especially if the Macedonians test that defence more than we did.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Hopelessly outclassed there. Full backs and centre mid got their balls felt. Green was either taking a woeful, woeful first touch, clattering and slipping into all around him, or lying on his belly on the deck as play raged on around him.

Heart and desire can only take you so far and when the opposition is of far superior technical and passing ability and they are on form, well it gets you a 2-3 going on 0-5 reverse.

That said im still a fan of Trappers and his system. With our squad of largely sows ears its probably the only way to go in international football.

[tommy_c12000]

Just a note on the side (not sure if it has been discussed already):

I thought it was a disgrace that supporters were able to invade the pitch and reach the players not once but twice. Absolutely shocking. The stewarding is clearly 2nd rate and needs to be improved substantially. Too many of the "volunteers" watch the games at crucial stages (i.e. 1st Russian goal and in the closing seconds last night) allowing supporters the window of opportunity to encroach. The free admission clearly isn't enough for the volunteers to return an adequate performance (I'm open to correction here but as far as I know only the "elite" stewards are paids while the vast majority only get free entry). This needs to be looked at urgently. Stewards need to be properly trained, paid (I think a stronger incentive is needed than free entry, FAI will no doubt be reluctant to splash out) and individuals held accountable for any pitch invasions which could lead to players being endangered. Simply not good enough. Change is needed because the current system clearly isn't working.

[geysir]

Whelan was on his own in the middle and didn't cope well.
Whelan was conspicuous yes, by his almost complete absence when Russia were weaving paths through midfield.
he had to be carrying a heavy knock/injury because nothing else could explain why Green was left so exposed by his partner.

[elroy]

Depressing, I think that is the biggest run around we have got at home since Spain in 1993. We deserved nothing from the game, were completely gone after 65 mins and were fortunate that we got a pen that gave us some life.

1. I cant believe some people think McGeady had a good game. His defensive side (or serious lack) of his game is very poor and cost us dearly. On numerous occasions he was too lazy to track his man. The second goal came down his flank and he failed to track his man leaving Killer two on one. The third goal also came down his side, that guy had time to take the ball, turn and run at goal and eventually shoot without challenge from the CM or McGeady. He offered a few outlets going forward but how many quality deliveries did he make, decent shots?!? Im sick of hearing how good he is for his club, I think he is a luxury player in our team who we cant afford.

2. Russia defensively were very vulnerable, it was such a shame Keane and Doyle did not get good service. Any time we got a decent ball in their area, there was mayhem and by and large Keane and Doyle did well imo.

3. Very disappointed in Lawro, very ineffective. Considering his recent performances, will just put it down to a bad day. Perhaps the injury he picked up early on hampered him.

4. Centre midfield were non existent. I think Whelan was actually less effective than Green. Was listening to the radio at half time and Damien Richardson made the very good point that the system Russia were adopting with one man in front of their back four and then two other centre midfielders free to roam forward was killing us. He said that the only way we could stop the rot was by changing our system and going man for man. By the time Trap did this, it was too late, but look at the difference it made. Long was a breath of fresh air and brought an energy and effort ala Hunt (see the determination he showed for the second goal). Gibson at least got his foot on the ball and distributed a bit better.

5. Defensively this was our worst performance under Trap, lethargic and we could have conceded another 3/4. Sledger was poor but I also thought Dunne wasnt great either. He was harshly penalised for the first goal, dont think it was a free.

6. A real opportunity missed to make this group ours. I have been a bit fan of Trap so far but tonight tactically he was outdone and was too slow to address the mess that was our midfield.
The Armenian result is a god send for us, but we need to get a result on Tuesday. The group is very open. After Tuesday, we have to go to Russia and have Slovakia at home. Slovakia have Russia at home and us away. Russia have us at home and Slovakia away. So winning the group is still there for us but we need to make serious improvements from the abject performance last night.

Considering the obvious failures in our midfield, do we need to consider a change in formation (what system do Slovakia play). How would ye feel about Keane moving to the wing in place of McGeady and playing Gibson as an attacking centre midfielder.

[Dodge]

Whelan was conspicuous yes, by his almost complete absence when Russia were weaving paths through midfield.
he had to be carrying a heavy knock/injury because nothing else could explain why Green was left so exposed by his partner.

Not sure who was exposing who, but they were both awful. As Whelan has at leas shown he can doa job in the past, I'm willing to give him the benefit of any doubt

[carloz]

http://greenscene.me/2010/10/player-ratings-ireland-v-russia/

player ratings for the game

[irishultra]

they tried telling us that players club form had nothing to do with and look what happened. sucha joke, loser players like paul green in the team and this is what you get. trapatonni is not a particularly good manager at all and only gets away with it because in general irish people have low expectations(all walks of life and it includes on soccer team)

[geysir]

Not sure who was exposing who, but they were both awful. As Whelan has at leas shown he can doa job in the past, I'm willing to give him the benefit of any doubt
Benefit of doubt?
You were at the game, considering that a big part of our CM is to break up attacks, surely you noticed that Whelan did not make one tackle in the first half, or make an interception until the 44th minute, while Green had about 8 interceptions/tackles. Possibly the worst pass of the 1st half was made by Whelan and the Russians broke into attack forcing a good save. On a few other occasion when Green intercepted, he was crowded out with Whelan a distant spectator.
Of course Green is nothing special, he can't do the effective work of 2CM on his own. Roy Keane could, but not Green

[Billsthoughts]

usual Irish fans wallowing in misery. seem to enjoy the bad days more than the good. ireland played crap of that there is no doubt. could have been 5 or 6 nil. but we have bounced back before and will do this time as well. what I felt most was that when russia were running riot(even at one nil) ireland lacked players with the courage to play balls and make mistakes. everytime the midfield passed backwards. probably green played last game for ireland. personally would like to see fahey play as he can pass a ball and play football but by no means is he going to be the saviour for them. i got the impresion from the post match interviews that it was the fear in the players not the fear instilled by trapp that was the cause of them not playing.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Attended my first Ireland game in a while last night. As ever gave me a better perception of the team than watching on TV did. I hadn't really noticed bhow slow St ledger was for instance. Completely out of his depth. Kilbane, who I love, literaly didn't do a single thing of merit all night. Looked frightened of the ball. Whelan was on his own in the middle and didn't cope well. Poor Paul Green. Doubt he'd get into Rovers or Bohs midfield. Genuinely felt sorry for him as he wasn't lacking in effort. Lawrence and McGeady were woeful. At lest McGeady kept plugging away and always wanted the ball. Doyle worked hard but mislaid a few easy passes (things like laying off behind the winger rather than putting it front of them). Keane was shocking. His dive early i the first half was outragously bad. Complained about it for 5 minutes too (and in doing so missed a counter attack opportunity). Spent more time waving at the linesman than getting involved.

Bar a plucky 10 minutes around the goals (and a frantic minute or so before Russia scored), Ireland were far, far behind Russia all over the park.

Still at least the Stadium is excelent

That's the Robbie Keane of pretty much every Ireland match. Such a whinger (says me whingin about him!)

[Drumcondra 69er]

Green was very poor alright but he was left so exposed by Whelan the entire time he was on the pitch, shameful performance.

Very bad day at the ofice but let's not kneejerk, I was there for the Spain game in 93 when half the crowd left at 3-0. The consolation that Shridan got that day wound up enabling us to pip Denmark on goals scored for second so the 2 last night could prove to be vital. Let's be honest it could have been 5 and we'd have had no complaints.

Watched the analysis this morning, very honest interview from Dunne. Hope there's a reaction on Tuesday, gutted at the mo and suffering an unmerciful hangover to boot....

[Noelys Guitar]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Kevin Doyle yet. He was very poor by his standards. His layoff play was terrible. Only once did he win a kncokdown for Keane to run onto. And he has devoloped a bad habit (seen him doing this recently for Wolves) of collecting the ball close to the oppositions box and then run the ball back towards our goal. Last season he would simply turn and run at the opposition defense. Advocat won the battle of the managers yesterday. He simply realised we don't man mark and his team used the room available to hurt us. Whelan should have been substituted after 30 mins. McGeadys free role in the second half of the the second half changed the game not the high balls. He is a much better player when he has somebody like O'Shea to hit 1-2's with rather than Kibane who is simply too slow. Given should have played the ball out to O'Shea 50% of the time for the last 10mins with the other 50% high balls. We can't just keep lumping as even the dodgy Russian defense can adjust.

[seanfhear]

An average Irish team played against a team having a good day. The average Irish team had a very bad day and got a good hiding despite the scoreline.

We badly missed Duffer(I suppose we won't really appreciate how good he is until he is retired)

McCarthy should be in the squad but is he definitely that interested in being in the Irish squad?

Not that pertinent for last night but is the "chemistry" between Doyle and Keane as good as it should be ?

Foley would be an option for me at right back but does Josh play as well at left back as he does at right back ?

We could do with Given playing regular first team football.

Andrews would have been more useful at midfield that Green yesterday. Mind you I have me doubts if Whelan was a 100% fit last night so Green was a bit over exposed.

McGeady is still an enigma but he has too produce more end result and be an actual threat on goal. If he does not do it in the next year/18 months then he probably never will.

I think that Jon Walters probably deserves his chance (if he is interested, sadly you have to say that about nearly every player these days) at least as much as Shane Long. I think that Trap is loyal too players that show a willingness to show up and well, thats fair enough.

Do we have any better than St Ledger and Kilbane. Its up for debate.

To sum up we have an average team with some good players. I have me doubts if another manager would achieve better results than Trap.

Lets hope we stay in contention at least until the end of the group and maybe a few of the younger players will improve or some new faces or fringe players make a stronger case for inclusion.

Things will eventually improve, get worse or stay the same. (I predict I am right about at least one of them)

[tetsujin1979]

Game being discussed on newstalk now, Emmet Malone, Daniel McDonnell and another reporter who's name I missed

<EDIT>

It's Dion Fanning

[geysir]

Not that pertinent for last night but is the "chemistry" between Doyle and Keane as good as it should be ?

Foley would be an option for me at right back but does Josh play as well at left back as he does at right back ?

A lot of chemistry would improve by having at least one real full back who gets forward to support the play.

Probably only McCarthy could improve the midfield contribution and still have CM tight enough to Trap's satisfaction.

[MeathDrog]

On an interesting note: Let's for argument's sake say Staunton was in charge for that game, and Ireland played the exact same and basically got thumped for 70 odd minutes in the same way. Would the crowd have gotten on his back? You bet your bottom dollar he would have gotten a bucketload of abuse. Trappatoni got little or none, even though he was quite clearly outplayed tactically-wise by Advocaat.

[Noelys Guitar]

A lot of chemistry would improve by having at least one real full back who gets forward to support the play.

Probably only McCarthy could improve the midfield contribution and still have CM tight enough to Trap's satisfaction.

Agree. The amount of times McGeady had three players shadowing him (especially in the first half) and he needed an Irish player to overlap on the wing. Never happened. In the later half of the second half O'Shea and Long when he came on started to help out. And what a difference it made. I would consider starting O'Shea at left back on Tuesday. Bring in Foley at right back. Or else start Cunningham at left back and let him overlap when possible. Slovakia are going to play the way they did against Macedonia at home. All out attack but they gave Macedonia so many counter atacking chances it was unreal. We have to be able to exploit those chances and that means full backs pushng forward as a unit with our two wingers.

[rebelmusic]

Despite my anger at the performance, i have to admit when Long scored my brain did the calculations and i thought "Well, we're still top".

In fairness, if we beat Slovakia were still well in there. It's a pity we couldn't grab the table by the balls but maybe in some ways a massive wake up call was needed. Gonna reserve the majority of my conclusions until after Tuesday. Considering last campaign this would have have been 2 draws, maybe a win and a loss wouldnt be the worst thing in the world.