General Musings on Music

[Wolfie]

Just a general discussion thread for anyone who has a thing or two to air about music in general.

A random thought that strikes me - What's the crack with all of this new folk business - eg, Mumford and Sons etc etc. It appears to have an "indie" sensibility with some "folk" tacked on.

Personally I think its much less interesting and innovative to what the early incarnation of James were producing 25 years ago.

[Pauro 76]

Just a general discussion thread for anyone who has a thing or two to air about music in general.

A random thought that strikes me - What's the crack with all of this new folk business - eg, Mumford and Sons etc etc. It appears to have an "indie" sensibility with some "folk" tacked on.

Personally I think its much less interesting and innovative to what the early incarnation of James were producing 25 years ago.

Reckon the Fleet Foxes started it all off. That was a genuinely brilliant album but radio airplay overkill has ruined Mumford & Sons for me. Plus the singer's 'arrr harrr arr arrrr arrr' vocal stylings grate on me too.

[Macy]

Personally I think its much less interesting and innovative to what the early incarnation of James were producing 25 years ago.
Welcome to getting old! :)

[the 12 th man]

Welcome to getting old! :)

Sad but true Macy,everybody thinks the music that was around in their "formation" years was the best,no comparison between the likes of Joy Division,Echo & The Bunnymen etc with the likes of Mumford & Sons & The Kooks etc (and I don't care what age you are ;))


Having said that I like to cherry-pick the newer stuff and like Biffy Clyro,Paulo Nutini and Lady Gaga:shock:

[Wolfie]

Welcome to getting old! :)

Point taken - but I don't categorise music as "old and new". For me, its either "good or bad" - regardless of what era its from.

[Wolfie]

Reckon the Fleet Foxes started it all off. That was a genuinely brilliant album but radio airplay overkill has ruined Mumford & Sons for me. Plus the singer's 'arrr harrr arr arrrr arrr' vocal stylings grate on me too.

Agree in relation to Fleet Foxes and its resultant creation of a "scene" is as old as the hills - probably as far back as the 50's.

[Lev Yashin]

The Mumford and Sons album is a pretty good album but those two singles have been played to the point that i would skip past them if was listening to it.
I happen to like that "new folk" movement thing thats happening.

Im lucky enough to have a friend who has no interest in sport and lives for music so i get recomendations off him and he keeps me up to date on whats happening gig wise and the like.
He actually plays in a band so i better plug them ...We Should Be Dead.

[bennocelt]

The Rifles are pretty cool!!

[Bluebeard]

I am still listening to an awful lot of stuff from the 70s and then odds and ends since then. I am also finding a lot of stuff from specific years having a resonance with me, so I'd say there is something in what Macy says. Particularly regularly bands I listen to are Irish bands of the late 80s that weren't unduly influenced by U2.

That said, some peculiar recent bands are chiming with me. Au Revoir Simone and Vampire Weekend come to immediate mind, for example. Most new bands do get a very cursory listen from me. I find that every year you have a coterie of people banging on about some "indie" group (Zutons, Kaiser Chiefs, Franz Ferdinand, Arctic Monkeys, Mumford & Sons, etc.) being the best band in years and that no, that crowd they were raving about last year are not nearly the band this one is. And they will release one catchy track that is so heavily airplayed that I will recognise it from just going to the shops. And then they will disappear, to be replaced by the next "Next Big Thing". So when I hear a band being raved about these days, I will normally ignore them, and take up with something I found by chance on someone's website, or on someone else's mp3 (just remember kids - if you must share earphones, use a condom).

[stann]

And then they will disappear, to be replaced by the next "Next Big Thing".
This phenomenon is now so prevalent that it actually happened in the middle of an episode of Buzzcocks not so long ago.*

I do like to keep the hand in with new stuff all the time, but have at long last become a bit wary of the banging on about new acts or albums, and in particular pay attention to the age profile of the bangers-on, funnily enough. Experience has shown that if a new band appeals to early twenties kids it's as well to take a pause before getting on board, not always, by any means, but as well nonetheless. I've enough CDs now that have been listened to for a week and then never again, they mightn't eat anything but they don't half take up space!
Still love hearing new things though, but the golden age of the late '80s to mid '90s are where it's at at the minute. It's Great When You're Straight... Yeah! :D




*not really, I know.

[bennocelt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ZdzthYCvY
The Rifles are pretty cool!!

[Wolfie]

This phenomenon is now so prevalent that it actually happened in the middle of an episode of Buzzcocks not so long ago.*

I do like to keep the hand in with new stuff all the time, but have at long last become a bit wary of the banging on about new acts or albums, and in particular pay attention to the age profile of the bangers-on, funnily enough. Experience has shown that if a new band appeals to early twenties kids it's as well to take a pause before getting on board, not always, by any means, but as well nonetheless. I've enough CDs now that have been listened to for a week and then never again, they mightn't eat anything but they don't half take up space!
Still love hearing new things though, but the golden age of the late '80s to mid '90s are where it's at at the minute. It's Great When You're Straight... Yeah! :D




*not really, I know.

Yes - the last few posts are accurate testament to the fact that age and experience will colour your view of "the next big thing" so to speak.

I certainly take most positive reviews of new bands with a pinch of salt and reserve judgement. I think the Arctic Monkeys were the last young band to truly live up to the hype.

My formative years were based around the Roses, the Mondays, The Manics, Ride, Pixies - so we were spoilt for choice thinking back.

There's nothing new in the "next big things" failing to deliver on the hype.

I've just a particular aversion to these media created scenes in order to lump certain bands together - Britpop is probably the most well known example.

I remember a "shoegazing" scene in the early 90's that involved the excellent Ride and a further series of no mark bands, "Baggy" involved the Mondays and threw chancers such as Northside and the Farm a lifeline. The list goes on.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Sad but true Macy,everybody thinks the music that was around in their "formation" years was the best,no comparison between the likes of Joy Division,Echo & The Bunnymen etc with the likes of Mumford & Sons & The Kooks etc (and I don't care what age you are ;))


Having said that I like to cherry-pick the newer stuff and like Biffy Clyro,Paulo Nutini and Lady Gaga:shock:

I'm not great to keep up with new stuff but never was. But I just realised recently who lady gaga actually reminds me of ...Taylor Dayne -yes Taylor Dayne and a whole host of other somewhat slapped Madonna wannabees from the arse-end of the 80's with her.

...and then there's Paulo Nutini - I wish I'd been a fly on the wall at the initial rehearsal stage for his band because I think the conversation had to have gone some thing like "okay guys -ye play like ye're the pub band in that scene from Star Wars where Han Solo shoots the bounty hunter and I'll sing over the top of it in a manner that suggests I attend speech therapy as a consequence of a serious brain injury suffered in an RTA ...and we'll see how that goes".

I just dunno ...there's also something suspiciously "cabaret" in there that's entirely in keeping with a certain Irish pallette -see also Imelda May, Jack L, Jerry Fish... I'm sure there's more.

[Lev Yashin]

I'm not great to keep up with new stuff but never was. But I just realised recently who lady gaga actually reminds me of ...Taylor Dayne -yes Taylor Dayne and a whole host of other somewhat slapped Madonna wannabees from the arse-end of the 80's with her.

...and then there's Paulo Nutini - I wish I'd been a fly on the wall at the initial rehearsal stage for his band because I think the conversation had to have gone some thing like "okay guys -ye play like ye're the pub band in that scene from Star Wars where Han Solo shoots the bounty hunter and I'll sing over the top of it in a manner that suggests I attend speech therapy as a consequence of a serious brain injury suffered in an RTA ...and we'll see how that goes".

I just dunno ...there's also something suspiciously "cabaret" in there that's entirely in keeping with a certain Irish pallette -see also Imelda May, Jack L, Jerry Fish... I'm sure there's more.

You have to understand that 99% of Lady Gaga's fans have no idea who Taylor Dyane is. To them she is unique and original.
But lets be honest nearly every artist can be compared to someone or has taken influence from someone.
Should we not like a rock band because they sound like the Stones?
Or an Indie band becasue they sound like the Smiths?...etc.

I think we are too snobbish when it comes to music, why must we analyse it to death? Just bleedin' enjoy it!!! and if you dont turn it off and listen to something else!

[Lionel Ritchie]

You have to understand that 99% of Lady Gaga's fans have no idea who Taylor Dyane is. To them she is unique and original.
But lets be honest nearly every artist can be compared to someone or has taken influence from someone.
Should we not like a rock band because they sound like the Stones?
Or an Indie band becasue they sound like the Smiths?...etc.

I think we are too snobbish when it comes to music

I actually completely agree with you -and Indie kids and Indie culture are amongst the worst offenders for sanctimony and hypocracy (and I'm by no means immune). See how they deride the likes of Mika (who IMO deserves derision to some degree) for apeing his heroes Freddy and Elton -while out the other side of their mouths they'll hail as 'seminal' any number of thinly veiled Joy Division tribute acts.


why must we analyse it to death? Like Frank Zappa said ...we might as well be dancing about architecture.


Just bleedin' enjoy it!!! and if you dont turn it off and listen to something else! I'll have to just turn it off because it's often all just a bland tasteless mulch. But as has been said -everyone thinks to some degree that the music from their salad days was better -and yet there is a curious trend of regurgitation that goes on as well. A lot of the punk thing revisited ideas and stylings from the '50's and there was a straight up ‘50’s resurgence in the mid 80’s caused by bloody ads for denims. Back in the late '80's/very early '90's every band HAD to have a hammond organ -like it'd been agreed at some great conference that '60's records were the absolute biz. ...and today -we'll today we've the Killers sounding like Alphaville on steroids with that feckin made –of-mdf synthesizer that stops being ironic by the time the second chorus rolls around.
Then there’s yer one La Roux that sings Bulletproof indulging in her version of purchasing hippy wigs in Woolworths as her beloved 80’s yuppies might’ve done for school re-unions.

[stann]

I've just a particular aversion to these media created scenes in order to lump certain bands together - Britpop is probably the most well known example.
I remember a "shoegazing" scene in the early 90's that involved the excellent Ride and a further series of no mark bands, "Baggy" involved the Mondays and threw chancers such as Northside and the Farm a lifeline. The list goes on.

Melody Maker and NME at the time were very adept at creating those 'scenes', but in certain cases they did give a leg up to some bands who were worth it - the wonderful Lush and Curve stand out in the case of the shoegazers, and early Blur, and IIRC acts like My Bloody Valentine and Galaxie 500 were lumped in with them as well, though not very convincingly even at the time.
As regards "baggy", there were a lot of top bands over and above the Mondays, not all from Madchester either. Inspiral Carpets, Flowered Up, The Charlatans, The Real People, Paris Angels, World Of Twist. Each of those could hold their own against chancers as you say like Northside and the Farm, cynical bandwagoners like the Soup Dragons, or just, ahem, Candy Flip. :laugh:

On the other hand there were some truly awful scenes invented too. Who remembers Romo? Orlando, FFS! That's about the point I gave up reading Melody Maker. I don't think it lasted too much longer after. And as for the next big thing, yep, 'twas ever so. Birdland anyone?


Then there's yer one La Roux that sings Bulletproof indulging in her version of purchasing hippy wigs in Woolworths as her beloved 80’s yuppies might’ve done for school re-unions.
I've very much a soft spot for synth pop of all kinds, formative years and all that I suppose, but only recently realised why I could never take to La Roux, despite liking similar acts like her Ladyship and Little Boots, and that is because she can't sing! She can't hold a note to an almost unbelieveable level. In For The Kill is just shrieking. Awful awful stuff.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I don't mind her voice at all though I'd say it's been processed and adulterated to feck in the studio. Either that or I've never heard anyone better at doubletracking their vocals. It's the overcooked Yazoo tribute and the "I live in a parallel universe where it's forever 1982" thing I find a bit of a chin scratcher.

[Wolfie]

I don't mind her voice at all though I'd say it's been processed and adulterated to feck in the studio. Either that or I've never heard anyone better at doubletracking their vocals. It's the overcooked Yazoo tribute and the "I live in a parallel universe where it's forever 1982" thing I find a bit of a chin scratcher.

Yes - again its down to personal taste - one mans meat is anothers poison etc etc - but synth pop has always done my head in, so I've no love of the current, inferior wave its in thrall to.

I could never put my finger on why I don't like that sound - is it the lack of warmth in the music?? something overly clinical in its delivery?? - not sure. I just don't connect with it, that's for sure.

On the flip side - it was an absolute pleasure to listen to Arcade Fire's new offering "The Suburbs" - a band with plenty of influences themselves, I hasten to add.

Excellent on many levels IMO - great musicianship, great lyrics, passionate vocals and delivery of same and that intangible ability to draw the listener in.

Only 2 albums I've heard so far this year get full marks on the internationally recognised Wolfie Index - Gorillaz and Arcade Fire.

[Pauro 76]

I know it was released last year, but Wild Beasts 'Two Dancers' is an absolute gem. Also The XX well deserved the Mercury Music Prize too which bodes well for the music scene. Totally agree that Arcade Fire's 'The Suburbs' will be a classic for years to come, I still can't stop listening to it, it has everything.

[Macy]

I didn't "get" synth pop first time around, I'm fecked if I'm going to get it this time around. And that becomes the nub of the issue to do with age - it's all cycles and it'll never live up to the modern hype when don't have the memories of being young (and all that involves) to go with the music. Still doesn't mean it's any good though. Thank fook for the 90's Lunchbox on Phantom. :)

[Wolfie]

Not a massive Bowie fan by any means but just how deranged was Bowie in 1976??????????


"The extent to which drug addiction was now affecting Bowie was made public when Russell Harty interviewed the singer for his London Weekend Television talk show in anticipation of the album's supporting tour. Shortly before the satellite-linked interview was scheduled to commence, the death of the Spanish dictator General Franco was announced. Bowie was asked to relinquish the satellite booking, to allow the Spanish Government to put out a live newsfeed. This he refused to do, and his interview went ahead.

In the ensuing conversation with Harty, as described by biographer David Buckley, "the singer made hardly any sense at all throughout what was quite an extensive interview.Bowie looked completely disconnected and was hardly able to utter a coherent sentence." His sanity—by his own later admission—became twisted from cocaine; he overdosed several times during the year, and was withering physically to an alarming degree.

The tour was highly successful but mired in political controversy. Bowie was quoted in Stockholm as saying that "Britain could benefit from a Fascist leader", and detained by customs on the Russian/Polish border for possessing Nazi paraphernalia.

Matters came to a head in London in May in what became known as the "Victoria Station incident". Arriving in an open-top Mercedes convertible, the singer waved to the crowd in a gesture that some alleged was a Nazi salute, which was captured on camera and published in NME.

Bowie said the photographer simply caught him in mid-wave.He later blamed his pro-Fascism comments and his behaviour during the period on his addictions and the character of the Thin White Duke.

"I was out of my mind, totally crazed. The main thing I was functioning on was mythology ... that whole thing about Hitler and Rightism ... I'd discovered King Arthur ...". According to playwright Alan Franks, writing later in The Times, "he was indeed 'deranged'. He had some very bad experiences with hard drugs."

[Bluebeard]

Yep, Bowie in the real world lost it majorly around then. It's comical that he had only a year before finished Young Americans, with some strong blues influences - and Luther Vandross on backing vocals! - and then turned to the dark side. The mythical thing that the fascists hooked into has an appeal, and I can only speculate that someone who is hanging on by a thread to reality, if even that, would easily be swayed. By all accounts his spell in Germany really tapped him on the head of both the fascism, and - more curatively - the drug addiction that permitted what should be a hypothetical thought to become some kind of ideology.

[Wolfie]

Check this below - the recording of Captain Beefhearts "Trout Mask Replica". Nuts.



"The group rehearsed Van Vliet's difficult compositions for eight months, living communally in a small rented house in the Woodland Hills suburb of Los Angeles. Van Vliet implemented his vision by asserting complete artistic and emotional domination of his musicians.

At various times one or another of the group members was put "in the barrel," with Van Vliet berating him continually, sometimes for days, until the musician collapsed in tears or in total submission to Van Vliet. Drummer John French described the situation as "cultlike" and a visiting friend said "the environment in that house was positively Manson-esque."

Their material circumstances also were dire. With no income other than welfare and contributions from relatives, the group survived on a bare subsistence diet, and were even arrested for shoplifting food (with Zappa bailing them out). French recounted of living on no more than a small cup of beans a day for a month. A visitor described their appearance as "cadaverous" and said that "they all looked in poor health." Band members were restricted from leaving the house and practiced for 14 or more hours a day.

Physical assaults were encouraged at times, along with verbal degradation. Beefheart spoke of studying texts on brainwashing at a public library at about this time, and appeared to be applying brainwashing techniques to his bandmembers: sleep deprivation, food deprivation, constant negative reinforcement, and rewarding bandmembers when they attacked each other or competed with each other.

At one point Cotton ran from the house and escaped for a few weeks, during which time Alex Snouffer filled in for him and helped to work up "Ant Man Bee". French, who had thrown a metal cymbal at Cotton, ran after him yelling that he too wanted to come. Cotton later returned to the house with French's mother, who took him away for a few weeks, however he later felt compelled to return as did Cotton. Mark Boston at one point hid clothes in a field across the street, planning his own getaway.

John French's 2010 book Through the Eyes of Magic describes some of the "talks" which were initiated by his actions such as being heard playing a Frank Zappa drum part ("The Blimp") in his drumming shed, and not having finished drum parts as quickly as Beefheart would have liked. French writes of being punched by band members, thrown into walls, kicked, punched in the face by Beefheart hard enough to draw blood, being attacked with a sharp broomstick, and eventually of Beefheart threatening to throw him out of an upper-floor window. He admits complicity in similarly attacking his bandmates during "talks" aimed at them. In the end, after the album's recording, French was ejected from the band by Beefheart throwing him down a set of stairs with violence, telling him to "Take a walk, man" after not responding in a desired manner to a request to "play a strawberry" on the drums. Beefheart installed a hanger-on, Jeff Bruschelle, as the new Drumbo (playing on French's drumset) and did not include French's name anywhere on the album credits as a player or arranger.

[Jofspring]

I must say i never listen to reviews of bands or songs. If i hear a song by a band or artist i like i will probably give them a try and decide on my own if there music does anything for me. As mentioned before so many bands get hyped up for no reason. One good song and they are the best thing to happen to music in years. Mumford and Sons sounded good at first listen but got very tiresome quick and i thought their second song out sounded like the first one. Put me totally off buying their album as i was expecting a whole album that just sounded the same.

I know i'm discussing music hear but it is probably the most frustrating thing to hear people talk about. Most people think their opinion is the right one and their taste in music is the best. Same goes for music critics. Slating albums for certain reasons when those reasons may be why other people might like a particular album.

[SwanVsDalton]

I heard once that Captain Beefheart calimed he stayed awake for a year. Think it was Eric Drew Feldman, former band member and now producer, said it. If anyone could do it, you'd believe it's Beefheart.

Jofspring - I actually think music criticism is generally quite sophisticated. The problem with the medium is that everyone engages with it in some level. Don't think I've ever heard of anyone claim to have to have no taste in music. So when so many people engage, contribute and discourse on a subject it's going to lead to varying different levels of criticism. So Q or NME or whoever will big up Mumford And Sons when the blogosphere or other sources will just ignore them and respond by coaxing people into Bonnie 'Prince' Billy or Sun Kil Moon or Jeffrey Lewis.

Ignoring the hype is a big problem but critics have always existed - good news is, as you point out, these days you don't HAVE to follow critics. You can just hear whatever you want. Pick what you want and ignore the rest - a good time to be a music lover.

[ken foree]

Bonnie 'Prince' Billy or Sun Kil Moon or Jeffrey Lewis.

check alisdair roberts if you like will oldham swansvsdalton - they've collaborated. roberts is scottish, and utterly fantastic. sort've... comsic and whimsical. joyous and profound. only guy i've heard recently to hold a candle to early oldham in the lyrics/delivery stakes. his 'spoils' is an excellent record. skm are a little monotone for me (on the one record i have) but when you're in a certain mood they definitely hit the spot like few others. i think f. foxes/mumford would likely trace their roots more directly to The Band, a young "rock" group that got into soulful folk when it was sort've passe at the time (dylan's "old weird america" phrase springs to mind), especially in light of all the hip psychedelia of the 60s going on. i only make this point to attempt to differentiate these folk-rock acts from say, jack rose or ben chasny who would probably come to folk via acoustic guitar players like john fahey or leo kottke. p.s. i believe the bowie interview spoken about above is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbCVyt9saPM&p=4910B909965B7BE9&playnext=1&index=19

ah the wonders of youtube... :worship:

[SwanVsDalton]

Nice one, I've heard some of his stuff but haven't had a chance to really get my teeth into him. But will get stuck in as soon as I can. Sun Kil Moon I'm not a huge fan of myself, just used them as an example of a kind of folky sound which is a hell of a lot more interesting than Mumford And Sons.

[CraftyToePoke]

I remember a "shoegazing" scene in the early 90's that involved the excellent Ride and a further series of no mark bands, "Baggy" involved the Mondays and threw chancers such as Northside and the Farm a lifeline. The list goes on.

Ride were superb, maybe an album too many, but certainly had the knack for a bit there.

Have you listened to Spotlight Kid or Eat Lights Become Lights at all? a couple of bands Ive come across lately with a nod of the head to that old shoegazing scene - (its unnerving and best not to dwell to long on the fact that that scene is now old and past tense enough to spawn such bands ........ the hole in the ground will be here soon)

http://www.myspace.com/spotlightkidsound

+

http://www.myspace.com/eatlightsbecomelights

[bennocelt]

This is quite interesting. 15 musicians that went broke. Imagine MC Hammer bought a 30 million home spending half a million a month on maids/upkeep - jesus!!!!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39852571?slide=1

[Bluebeard]

The composer Arnold Bax was hugely interested in Ireland, and Irish Mythology, and used to holiday in Donegal. It all came about through his interest in the works of Yeats, particularly The Wanderings of Oisin and other Poems. He became a friend of Yeats and even used to write and publish poetry as "Dermot O'Byrne". He got involved in the Rathgar Circle to boot, and even met with Padraig Pearce on one occasion, where they apparently (according to Bax) got along famously. Though his music was more and more seldom heard in Britain, it was Ireland that took up his cause just after World War II and his music found an audience at last.

The British conductor Vernon Handley championed his work (and that of several other British composers) for years. When asked to compare the writing style of Bax with his much more popular contemporary Vaughn Williams, Handley began by giving a long a descriptive response focussing on how Vaughn Williams would go into depth and investigate popular folk tunes, and combine the tunes of the common people and other bits and pieces, elaborating at length the arranging he would go into, and concluded archly "in in Bax's case, he simply composed".

Here's to Arnold Bax, Honorary Irish Composer!

In later years, owing to the

[Wolfie]

Which band would you most like see reform?

I'd go for:

The Stone Roses
The Smiths
Supergrass

[gustavo]

What are peoples thoughts on Wings (only the band the Beatles could have been ) Didn't know much of their stuff but I heard McCartney play tracks from Band on the Run on Jools Holland and I really liked them - especially Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Five

[Wolfie]

What are peoples thoughts on Wings (only the band the Beatles could have been ) Didn't know much of their stuff but I heard McCartney play tracks from Band on the Run on Jools Holland and I really liked them - especially Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Five

I've never heard a full continuous play of the album but I've heard different songs off the album over the years - Band on the Run, Jet and Let me Roll it.

The concensus is that its considered McCartney's best collection of songs outside of the Beatles lifespan.

[BonnieShels]

Which band would you most like see reform?

I'd go for:

The Stone Roses
The Smiths
Supergrass


I always have my mythical list of Nirvana, The Kinks and My Bloody Valentine, wholly on the premise that none would ever happen. But now that I got my MBV wish would have to say The Smiths would be no 3.

Every so often I've go through a rock phase and I've been listening to Foo Fighter-Foo Fighters non-stop since last week. Ah the joys of youth. The intro riff in Good Grief is probably one of my most favourite things in the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzHBKqSDUI0

Also lads went to see Midlake last week and they were stunning but I have to say a special mention has to go out to John Grant who supported. Stunning.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6iWtIFJ-og&feature=related

[Wolfie]

Finally got around to emersing myself in Frank Blacks first two solo albums - "Frank Black" and "Teenager of the Year".

As his sound has been highly influential and copied, the albums still sound quite fresh.

The first album is not far off a lost Pixies album - "I head Ramona Sing" is genius.

"Teenager of the Year" is possibly over-long (22 tracks) but there is no shortage of great moments on there. Its a branching out of styles, a few tunes suffer from dated keyboard lines but overall still a great album.

I love some of the twists he uses in songs structures - ie, a song can start out quite mellow and reserved and suddenly segue into a different time signature and altered melody.

Lyrically, the themes are always certainly original, off kilter and never dull. His willingness to adopt different vocal delivery helps distinguish one song from the next also.

In summary - both well worth a listen.

[Wolfie]

John Lennon is 30 years dead tomorrow.

[the 12 th man]

John Lennon is 30 years dead tomorrow.

I heard an ad on the radio for that Newbridge Cutlery place have some of his original clothes and bit & pieces belonging to him in their showrooms.

[Pauro 76]

I always have my mythical list of Nirvana, The Kinks and My Bloody Valentine, wholly on the premise that none would ever happen. But now that I got my MBV wish would have to say The Smiths would be no 3.

Every so often I've go through a rock phase and I've been listening to Foo Fighter-Foo Fighters non-stop since last week. Ah the joys of youth. The intro riff in Good Grief is probably one of my most favourite things in the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzHBKqSDUI0

Also lads went to see Midlake last week and they were stunning but I have to say a special mention has to go out to John Grant who supported. Stunning.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6iWtIFJ-og&feature=related

The Foo Fighters debut is pure class. Really like 'Colour and the Shape' as well but they've gone horrendously MOR since then.

[BonnieShels]

Indeed they have. Usually 1 song on each album since There is nothing left to lose which was their last album of any noteworthy consistency. I do have a bit of a fondness for the track Pretender off Echoes Silence... etc.
Krist Novoselic and Butch Vig involved in the next album though... maybe?
The first 2 albums are in my all-time top ten. With everlong in my all-time top 10 songs.

[Wolfie]

Anyone heard the "Beady Eye" single??????

[tetsujin1979]

Anyone heard the "Beady Eye" single??????
yeah, it's woeful
the last 90 seconds is "baby c'mon, c'mon baby c'mon" on repeat for over a minute

sounds like Liam's stopped thinking he's John Lennon, and started thinking he's Jim Morrison

[ken foree]

yeah, it's woeful
the last 90 seconds is "baby c'mon, c'mon baby c'mon" on repeat for over a minute

sounds like Liam's stopped thinking he's John Lennon, and started thinking he's Jim Morrison

it seems a car crash of early VU and 'exile'-era stones. unfortunately ends up sounding something like a sub-par black rebel motorcycle club who were a sort've spiritualized/oasis tribute act themselves.

[Wolfie]

yeah, it's woeful
the last 90 seconds is "baby c'mon, c'mon baby c'mon" on repeat for over a minute

sounds like Liam's stopped thinking he's John Lennon, and started thinking he's Jim Morrison

It sounds exactly as I expected them to sound - bog standard, uninspired 70's rock by numbers that has nothing to say.

Still hoping that Noel can produce something meaningful. I'd love to see him work with Dave Sardy again - he did a great job on the 6 Noel tunes that featured on last Oasis album.

Oasis becoming a democracy destroyed the band. Once Noel stopped doing everything, they were doomed.

[Wolfie]

Anyone catch "The Promise" over the Christmas. A documentary about the recording of Springsteens "Darkness on the Edge of Town"????

You've got to admire the work ethic and attention to detail but it must have driven the band demented. Days spent checking out drum sounds!!!!!

[centre mid]

Didnt see it all but what I saw was very good filmaking. Fascinating insight to his writing process.

[punkrocket]

You've got to admire the work ethic and attention to detail but it must have driven the band demented. Days spent checking out drum sounds!!!!!

When Phil Spector produced the Ramones he made Johnny do the first chord to rock n roll high school over and over and over and ..........

and to be honest I'm sure he nailed it first time

[punkrocket]

Not to mention pulling a gun on them to keep them at it!

[Wolfie]

An extract offering an insight into the recording of "Loveless" by My Bloody Valentine.

"The vocal tracks were taped in Britannia Row and Protocol studios between May and June 1991. This was the first time vocalist Bilinda Butcher was involved in the recording. Shields and Butcher hung curtains on the window between the studio control room and the vocal booth, and only communicated with the engineers when they would acknowledge a good take by opening the curtain and waving".

According to engineer Guy Fixsen, "We weren't allowed to listen while either of them were doing a vocal. You'd have to watch the meters on the tape machine to see if anyone was singing. If it stopped, you knew you had to stop the tape and take it back to the top."

On most days, the couple arrived without having written the lyrics for the song they were to record. Dutt recalled: "Kevin would sing a track, and then Bilinda would get the tape and write down words she thought he might have sung".

In July 1991, Creation agreed to relocate the production to Eastcoate studio, following unexplained complaints from Shields. However, the cash-poor Creation Records was unable to pay the bill for their time at Britannia Row, and the studio refused to return the band's equipment. Dutt recalled, "I don't know what excuse Kevin gave them for leaving. He had to raise the money himself to get the gear out."

Shields' unexpected and random behaviour, the constant delays, and studio changes were having a material effect both on Creation's finances and the health of their staff. Dutt later admitted being desperate to leave the project, while Creation's second-in-command Dick Green had a nervous breakdown around this time. Green later recalled, "It was two years into the album, and I phoned Shields up in tears. I was going 'You have to deliver me this record'.

During this time, both Shields and Butcher became affected with tinnitus, and had to delay recording for a further number of weeks while they recovered. Concerned friends and band members suggested this was a result of the unusually loud volumes the group played at their shows. Shields dismissed these concerns as "Ill-informed hysteria".

Although Alan McGee was still upbeat and positive about his investment, the 29-year-old Green, who by this time was opening the label's morning post "shaking with fear", became a concern to his co-workers. Publicist Laurence Verfaillie, aware of the label's inability to cover further studio bills, recalled Green's hair turning grey overnight. "He would have not gone grey if it was not for that album", Verfaillie said.

With the vocal tracks completed, a final mix of the album was undertaken with engineer Dick Meany at the Church in Crouch End during the autumn of 1991; it was the nineteenth studio in which Loveless had been worked on. The album was edited on an aged machine that had previously been used to cut together dialog for movies in the 1970s. Its computer threw the entire album out of phase. Shields was able to put it back together from memory, yet when it came to mastering the album, to Creation's dismay, he needed 13 days, rather than the usual one day.

As the previously prolific band were unusually quiet, the UK music press began to speculate. Melody Maker calculated that the total recording cost had come close to £250,000; however, McGee, Green, and Shields dispute this. Shields argued that that estimated cost (and Creation's near-bankruptcy) was a myth exaggerated by McGee because the Creation owner "thought it would be cool."

According to Shields, "The amount we spent nobody knows because we never counted. But we worked it out ourselves just by working out how much the studios cost and how much all the engineers cost. 160 thousand pounds was the most we could come to as the actual money that was spent."

In Green's opinion, the Melody Maker's estimate erred on the low side, by £20,000. He said, "Once you'd even got it recorded and mixed, the very act of compiling, EQ-ing, etcetera took weeks on its own."[15] In a December 1991 interview, Shields said that most of the money claimed to have been spent on the album was simply "money to live on" over three years, with the album itself only costing "a few thousand". He also claimed that the album represented only four months work over two years.

Shields later said that most of the money spent was the band's own money, and that "Creation probably spent fifteen to twenty thousand pounds of their own money on it, and that's it. They never showed us any accounts, and then they got bought out by Sony." "

[BonnieShels]

I've read that so many times over the years and it still brings a smile to me when I read this line: "On most days, the couple arrived without having written the lyrics for the song they were to record. Dutt recalled: "Kevin would sing a track, and then Bilinda would get the tape and write down words she thought he might have sung"."

And to think that that process created one of the greatest if not the greatest album ever committed to record.

My musical highlight of my life (that doesn't involve Daft Punk or The Prayer Boat) was being on a security stand at Primavera 2009 at MBV and singing Soon at the top of my lungs and swaying with tears in my eyes. I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it.

I'd say mixing Loveless was hell.

[Wolfie]

Q Magazine readers vote "OK Computer" the best album of Q's lifetime (established 1986).

More breaking news............World continues to spin on its Axis................