Epl 2010/11

[Stuttgart88]

Just how bad is the standrad of refereeing in the EPL / England this year? Every big game seems to have rubbish decisions. The Birmingham v Arsenal blatantly wrong offside call that Arsenal were very lucky to escape, Wolves' disallowed goal today saving Gomez' blushes, Hutton not being red carded, Rooney not being red carded, David Luiz not being red carded. The two decisions against Arsenal yesterday. The pig's mickey Howard Webb made of the WC Final (not helped by the players).

There was a game a while back (WBA v Blackburn?) where a free was given just outside the box, yet in the whole relevant passage of play neither the attacker nor the defender set foot outside the box. Clear penalty

The answer is not in replays, it's just in having competent referees. The current crop just have no intuitive feel for the game whatsoever. They're staggeringly bad.

[tetsujin1979]

think a large part of it the pressure put on referees when they fail, who would want that?

[old git]

Just how bad is the standrad of refereeing in the EPL / England this year? Every big game seems to have rubbish decisions. The Birmingham v Arsenal blatantly wrong offside call that Arsenal were very lucky to escape, Wolves' disallowed goal today saving Gomez' blushes, Hutton not being red carded, Rooney not being red carded, David Luiz not being red carded. The two decisions against Arsenal yesterday. The pig's mickey Howard Webb made of the WC Final (not helped by the players).

There was a game a while back (WBA v Blackburn?) where a free was given just outside the box, yet in the whole relevant passage of play neither the attacker nor the defender set foot outside the box. Clear penalty

The answer is not in replays, it's just in having competent referees. The current crop just have no intuitive feel for the game whatsoever. They're staggeringly bad.

in fairness referee gets no help from linesmen when it comes to big decisions they have to make split second decisions without the benefit of 12 different camera angles .. players dont help either going down , rolling about in agony and managers just as bad always complain when decisions go against them but say nothing when they get them ... liverpool v utd today carraghers terrible tackle on nani & rafaels dangerous tackle both should have been red... managers will always defend players e.g ferguson on roonys elbow on mc carthy last weekend and dalglish live on sky after todays games praising his players for committment / performance & discipline ( carragher tackle !!) and most famous of all arse wenger they only manager who was always looking the other way when arsenal commit fouls etc ... maybee hearin lies the problem... clubs want to win at any cost no matter what ..

[shakermaker1982]

http://www.epltalk.com/nanis-horrific-injury-from-jamie-carraghers-tackle-photos-29893

How is that not a red card? Sickening.

[KK77]

http://www.epltalk.com/nanis-horrific-injury-from-jamie-carraghers-tackle-photos-29893

How is that not a red card? Sickening.

I asked the same question last weekend myself but there you go both players got away with it. It's hardly a shock they did either. Until proper action is taken nothing will change with regards to these incidents. Being able to hide behind this the ref took action at the time is a complete and utter joke.

[old git]

I asked the same question last weekend myself but there you go both players got away with it. It's hardly a shock they did either. Until proper action is taken nothing will change with regards to these incidents. Being able to hide behind this the ref took action at the time is a complete and utter joke.

f.a are the joke here they will use same old line referee deemed his action on incident was ok .. even worse is the story that jamie carragher had to be forced into an apology !!! .. then again if both players were sent off 1 game bans would this be acceptable punishment.. carraghers tackle could yet cost utd the league as nani was one of their better players this year and could be out for rest of season .. leaves the door open for chelsea to mount a serious run for league title now ..

[KK77]

f.a are the joke here they will use same old line referee deemed his action on incident was ok .. even worse is the story that jamie carragher had to be forced into an apology !!! .. then again if both players were sent off 1 game bans would this be acceptable punishment.. carraghers tackle could yet cost utd the league as nani was one of their better players this year and could be out for rest of season .. leaves the door open for chelsea to mount a serious run for league title now ..

Are you for real? If Man Utd don't win the league (i think they will still win it myself) it will be nothing whatsoever to do with Carragher's tackle yesterday. Nani like the rest of the Man U team had done nothing to suggest they were going to get anything out of the game and to suggest otherwise is mad imo. To suggest he is that important to them if he is out injured is again crazy imo. If they can't get the points from the remaining games with or without Nani to win the league well they won't deserve to win it.

[old git]

Are you for real? If Man Utd don't win the league (i think they will still win it myself) it will be nothing whatsoever to do with Carragher's tackle yesterday. Nani like the rest of the Man U team had done nothing to suggest they were going to get anything out of the game and to suggest otherwise is mad imo. To suggest he is that important to them if he is out injured is again crazy imo. If they can't get the points from the remaining games with or without Nani to win the league well they won't deserve to win it.

not that crazy .. nani has been in great form the last couple of months has even got into double figures with goals and has set up a lot of goals also.. he is the only midfielder utd have at the moment who has a bit of pace and can beat opponents with skill .. .. who will replace him for rest of season and score goals / create chances .. gibson !!! , obertan !!! so maybe i am not a crazy old git after all.. will agree with you they should be good enough to still win league but his injury makes it alot harder for them..

[gaiscíoch]

Are you for real? If Man Utd don't win the league (i think they will still win it myself) it will be nothing whatsoever to do with Carragher's tackle yesterday. Nani like the rest of the Man U team had done nothing to suggest they were going to get anything out of the game and to suggest otherwise is mad imo. To suggest he is that important to them if he is out injured is again crazy imo. If they can't get the points from the remaining games with or without Nani to win the league well they won't deserve to win it.

Any chance Utd had of getting back into the game was with Nani on the pitch. United ended up having to bring Rooney back to left mid to accommodate the changes.

You can say having Nani out will have that big of an effect because Valencia is out and Park Ji Sung is out. That leaves Ryan Giggs and Obertan the only two fully fit wingers in the first team. Carragher should still get a 3 game ban.


It was cowardly out of Carragher a player who is so well able to time a tackle to get it that far wrong can only have been pre meditated and cannot really be seen as a rush of blood to the head.

Fair play to him Liverpool won the game well probably would have won it handy anyhow.
But for a man who goes on about being a fair man it was a fair cheap shot.

[Stuttgart88]

BBC pundits on MOTD2 were saying that in general the ref handled it well, but I think that type of tackle should never be tolerated regardless of context. When england play in major tournaments they then complain about refs not tolerating "manly" challenges. The footballing world, for the most part, left that type of tackle behing a generation ago.

A defining moment of this season so far has been Abu Diabi being sent off for reacting - not particularly violently - to a tough tackle by Joey Barton. What happened yesterday was worse.

[KK77]

not that crazy .. nani has been in great form the last couple of months has even got into double figures with goals and has set up a lot of goals also.. he is the only midfielder utd have at the moment who has a bit of pace and can beat opponents with skill .. .. who will replace him for rest of season and score goals / create chances .. gibson !!! , obertan !!! so maybe i am not a crazy old git after all.. will agree with you they should be good enough to still win league but his injury makes it alot harder for them..

He maintained that on Sunday as well!!!! LOL

All joking aside any word on how bad the injury actually is? I wouldn't be shocked to see him back sooner than you may think. He did get up after it remember and then went back down again after going after Dowd.

[DeLorean]

It was a really bad tackle and an obvious red card, not even a difficult decision for the ref to make. It was far worse than the tackle Gerrard was sent off for at Old Trafford. That said, I think Nani draws that kind of treatment for acting little a little girl whenever he's touched. Ferguson and co can't complain too much either after the Rooney incident the week before. If he had come out and comdemned what Rooney did, then maybe he'd have earned the right to be taken more seriously when critisising the non-decisions for Luiz and Carragher. I thought Harry Redknapp was refreshing after the Wolves match. He said he couldn't really tell if Hutton had pulled back the Wolves player, but the referee didn't give it for nothing. He added that assuming Hutton did pull him back, he's lucky not to have walked.

[old git]

He maintained that on Sunday as well!!!! LOL

All joking aside any word on how bad the injury actually is? I wouldn't be shocked to see him back sooner than you may think. He did get up after it remember and then went back down again after going after Dowd.

hold on now he created liverpools 2nd goal !! :D and its not like nani to go down easy ... another player probally back in couple of weeks but with nani you never know how long.. but i fairness i looked a bad cut so will be intresting to see how long he is out for

[OwlsFan]

Just how bad is the standrad of refereeing in the EPL / England this year? Every big game seems to have rubbish decisions. The Birmingham v Arsenal blatantly wrong offside call that Arsenal were very lucky to escape, Wolves' disallowed goal today saving Gomez' blushes, Hutton not being red carded, Rooney not being red carded, David Luiz not being red carded. The two decisions against Arsenal yesterday. The pig's mickey Howard Webb made of the WC Final (not helped by the players).

There was a game a while back (WBA v Blackburn?) where a free was given just outside the box, yet in the whole relevant passage of play neither the attacker nor the defender set foot outside the box. Clear penalty

The answer is not in replays, it's just in having competent referees. The current crop just have no intuitive feel for the game whatsoever. They're staggeringly bad.

If they are ALL bad, then there is something wrong with the game and the system, not the referees.

Linesmen are supposed to have 4 eyes: looking at the kicker of the ball, looking at the last defender, looking at any off the ball incident and finally the ball going over the line and all within a split second. Refs of course have a one quick viewing of an incident and with players cheating and diving and pretending they are hurt, it is an impossible job. Their decisions are then played back on Sky in slow motion, dissected by former players who dislike refs anyway. Having seen the World Cup and other football in Spain, the refs and linesmen are no different. It is the game that has changed. Not the standard of Officials. Don't forget FIFA thought the English Officials were so good, they were awarded the WC Final which got out of hand because of the players.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree with some of the above, but there are a lot of non-discipline /cheating related errors, like the WBA/Blackburn example I cited. At no point duting the passage of play was either player outside the box yet the ref shirked giving a penalty and gave a free 19 yards out.

Players who get out of hand should be sent off.

You're right though, it's not just England: the standard of officiating at the WC was awful. The Lampard "goal", Tevez's goal, Van Bommel's perpetual fouling going unpunished, and the final itself which in fairness to Webb was made bad by the players. Thierry Henry's handball in Paris. These are all decisions you'd expect officials to get right. Marginal errors will always happen.

[OwlsFan]

The only sure thing in life about football is (a) Referees will make incorrect decisions and (b) Managers will come on tv moaning about them unless of course a decision goes in their favour, in which case you get comments like Phelan's on the Rooney/McCarthy incident:

"We can't dispute the referee's decision," he said. "He's kept the game flowing and we're happy with that".

[Stuttgart88]

It's definitely not just England.

Barcelona, denied a certain goal in London, robbed in last year's semi by 2 if not 3 rubbish decisions, get denied a penno under the ref's nose tonight. Then Van Persie gets the softest of red cards.

"Crisis of authority" - Dunphy, July 2010. Bang on.

Man U thinking they're above the law, FIFA, cheating players, awful refereeing, toothless domestic governance in England...

Anyway, I've been watching footy since the mid 1970s. I've never heard of a keeper rupturing a tendon catching a ball. Arsenal's injury jinx is quite amazing.

[geysir]

The only sure thing in life about football is (a) Referees will make incorrect decisions and (b) Managers will come on tv moaning about them unless of course a decision goes in their favour, in which case you get comments like Phelan's on the Rooney/McCarthy incident:

"We can't dispute the referee's decision," he said. "He's kept the game flowing and we're happy with that".
It's amazing how the result of a game affect the perception of a ref's performance.

[osarusan]

Wenger today said that "after a fantastic first leg, the only thing anybody will remember now is the red card" (or words to that effect). I think it's more the case that he'd like people to remember it that way, rather than remembering the fact that Arsenal were outclassed even before Van Persie got sent off.

[Stevo Da Gull]

I wouldn't dispute that Barca were the better side, but I do disagree with people who say that the sending off didn't affect the game. There would have been more pressure on Barca as the clocked ticked down, 11 on 11. Barca were creating chances when the sides were even, but I don't think that there's any doubt that they created more chances with the man advantage.

Anyhow, Almunia in goal for Arsenal for the next six weeks.

[old git]

I wouldn't dispute that Barca were the better side, but I do disagree with people who say that the sending off didn't affect the game. There would have been more pressure on Barca as the clocked ticked down, 11 on 11. Barca were creating chances when the sides were even, but I don't think that there's any doubt that they created more chances with the man advantage.

Anyhow, Almunia in goal for Arsenal for the next six weeks.

agree with you sending affected the game.. barcelona would have found it harder to break arsenal down 11 -11 but we will never know if barcelona would have done it anyway ..

[DeLorean]

Rooney two match ban upheld, sending a clear message out to any kids that may have been watching...it's ok to elbow somebody in the head, just don't curse.

[old git]

Rooney two match ban upheld, sending a clear message out to any kids that may have been watching...it's ok to elbow somebody in the head, just don't curse.

or dont curse while you elbow somebody in the head ;).. seems crazy to get 2 games for cursing at camera and yet every week you can lip read players tellin each other or officals for f off or worse .. and as you said elbow players / late career threating tackles/ high challenges players get of scot free !! the logic of the english f.a.

[Closed Account 2]

Quick quiz question for you:

Name someone who has lost a cup final with Arsenal and with Man Utd ?

(clue, the term "cup final" isn't restricted to just the fa cup in this case)

[DeLorean]

Quick quiz question for you:

Name someone who has lost a cup final with Arsenal and with Man Utd ?

(clue, the term "cup final" isn't restricted to just the fa cup in this case)

Silvestre popped into my head straight away, but I don't think Arsenal were in any Finals while he was there? Frank Stapleton?

[Closed Account 2]

No not Silvestre or Stapleton... there is quite a number of years between the finals.

[DeLorean]

No not Silvestre or Stapleton... there is quite a number of years between the finals.

I have no idea what the answer is, but I got curious about Stapleton, having spent so many years at both. Turns out he could fit the bill too...

Arsenal (1974-1981)

FA Cup Final 1978 Ipswich Town 1-0 Arsenal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_FA_Cup_Final#Match_details)
FA Cup Final 1980 West Ham United 1-0 Arsenal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_FA_Cup_Final)
European Cup Winner's Cup Final 1980- Valencia 0-0 Arsenal (pens.5-4) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_European_Cup_Winners'_Cup_Final)

Manchester United (1981-1987)

League Cup Final 1983 - Liverpool 2-1 Manchester United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Football_League_Cup_Final)

[Closed Account 2]

Didn't spot that League Cup... so yeah it could have been him.

The one I was thinking of was Stewart Houston

[Stuttgart88]

Viv Anderson maybe. Was he in the Arsenal team that lost to Luton in the LC Final?

Anyway, Wenger's "second place isn't a disaster" outburst on Thursday was weird. Of course it's not literally a disaster, but he has been banging on all year about this young side being "mentally strong". Nothing could be further from the truth:

- Losing to Spurs when 2 up
- Drawing with Newcastle when 4 up
- Drawing at Sunderland after missing a penalty to go 2 up
- Only getting a point in 2 games from WBA
- Only getting a point in 2 games from Newcastle
- Only getting 2 points from Sunderland
- Scoring an OG to drop a lead at Wigan
- Missing a hatful of chances to kill games they don't go on to win
- Blowing the League Cup Final
- Drawing 3 games in a row, including a feeble effort against Blackburn, knowing that winning all remaining 8 games would win the league - not too big an ask when statistically they win 5 out of 8; 3 more with such a big incentive isn't beyond the wit of man.

So, no, coming second (if they even manage that) isn't a disaster but when you look at the limp, meak, indisciplined and downright careless way they have dropped points when they did, they could look back at this season as a nightmarish opportunity lost.

Wenger must wake up to the fact that Almunia, Squilachi, Denilson, Rosicky, Bendtner, Eboue, Diaby and even the woefully underperforming Arshavin are not up to the standard (or not playing to it) required. Classic example of overpaid starts living in a comfort zone, exempt from fair criticism. Even Clichy and Sagna would be under pressure in my view.

[Closed Account 2]

I think Fabregas has been below par too, as Denilson said he's not really captain material and you can't see him imposing his will on the team. He's also been sloppy this season, not just in the Nou Camp, but also in that home leg he was frequently giving the ball away. Perhaps he's had his head turned by the thrilling prospect of sitting on the Barca bench for the next 4-5 years.

Imagine if they'd signed on of those Hamburg players Man City got (De Jong, Kompany etc) then they would have solved the captain and the center back / central midfield issues in one go.

[DeLorean]

I agree. I think Fabregas is a quality player when things are going well, and poor when his team are struggling, definitely not a trait you would want in your captain.

[Closed Account 2]

It's the story of their whole midfield. Rosicky clones. Although to be fair Nasri has been fairly consistent this season and Wilshere might yet be consistant. To me their best player has been the Polish keeper with the unspellable name Szezeney(?) since his injury their form has crumbled away. I can't think of any decent keepers below say 25, except maybe him Hart, Lloris, Neuer or De Gea, but he's the 2nd youngest of those.

[OwlsFan]

A few thoughts before I forget them (getting to that age):

Ferguson doing a Wenger after the Chelsea game: "I didn't see it" after Chelsea had a nailed on penalty turned down. If the boot had been on the other foot, I somehow think he would have seen the incident. What hypocrites managers are.

Mancini- in his first season at Man City he said he was going to win trophies all over the place. What a pathetic team for the money he spent. If Real Madrid and Man City lose their respective semi-finals, I expect Mourinho to be the next Man City manager. Remember you read it here first.

Really enjoying the scrap at the bottom. Fingers crossed for Wolves.

[geysir]

Criticism of refs is a malignacy, though I'm warming bit by bit to Ferguson as a manager. This season, maybe more than any other, he has proved the indestructible quality of his cojones
I heard that post match interview with him about that penalty Q, he spoke rapidly, under his breath, in an almost undecipherable Scottish accent, that 'if it was a break, we (Man U) deserved it'. So he conceded in Ferguson (almost silent to the human ear) speak, that it was a break.

I didn't think it was a nailed on penalty for Chelsea. It might have been a penalty but not imo a nailed on penalty. Afair, it looked a regular block but on replays an amount of illegal contact could be observed. Ref might well have been influenced by the previous, half dozen or so, dives by Chelsea players to win free kicks and penalties.

[old git]

A few thoughts before I forget them (getting to that age):

Ferguson doing a Wenger after the Chelsea game: "I didn't see it" after Chelsea had a nailed on penalty turned down. If the boot had been on the other foot, I somehow think he would have seen the incident. What hypocrites managers are.

Mancini- in his first season at Man City he said he was going to win trophies all over the place. What a pathetic team for the money he spent. If Real Madrid and Man City lose their respective semi-finals, I expect Mourinho to be the next Man City manager. Remember you read it here first.

Really enjoying the scrap at the bottom. Fingers crossed for Wolves.

you forgot to mention ancheloti after the same chelsea game blatent penalty even fron were he was standing and when asked about torres diving i dont know as i did not see incident ,, they are the same only see what they want .. mourinho may make it to manchester but i think he really wants the utd job ,, but may have to wait another while for fergie to retire

[DeLorean]

mourinho may make it to manchester but i think he really wants the utd job ,, but may have to wait another while for fergie to retire

Not sure about that. He likes being the guy that is responsible for turning around a teams fortunes. He's had the opportunity to do that everywhere he's been, winning a UEFA Cup at Porto followed by a Champions League, Chelsea's first Championship in 50 years, Champions League at Inter and the opportunity to bring Real Madrid back to the top table of Europe also. He'd have to have ridiculous success at Old Trafford to dispose of Fergie's shadow. City would be a great job for him as he could spend all the money he liked and he'd probably have more pulling power than Mancini. Also, the rubbish job that Mancini has done has pretty much left room for only improvement you'd imagine, especially if they miss out on the Champions League again this season. Wouldn't surprise me to see him back at Chelsea, not winning a Champions League there must have damaged his ego some little bit and Abramovic must surely see what a huge mistake he made letting him go that time.

[geysir]

Replacing Ferguson would be the ultimate poisoned chalice job.
Also, the ghost of Ferguson would haunt the new manager every night.

[KK77]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23940716-niko-kranjcar-picks-anfield-as-his-ideal-getaway-this-summer.do

[Closed Account 2]

I wouldnt want the Old Trafford job with the prospect of Fergie hovering around in the boardroom upstairs, and I doubt Mourinho would as he seems to be his own man - it's more likely someone like Moyes would do it. As you say short of winning 3-4 European Cups in a decade there is little a new manager could do to place himself above the previous one.

I could have seen Mourinho going to Liverpool if they had sorted their finances out, but it looks like Dalglish is there for a while now. I wonder what are the odds of Hiddink ending up at Chelsea? If Turkey lose in Brussels on the 3rd June I could see him walking from that job.

[Stuttgart88]

back to the first leg:

Torres' two dives? Second one - no question. But the first: Vidic lunged right across him. I think there's a grey area between diving and pre-empting a clatter from a defender. McGeady's red in Aberdeen. No contact with either ball or defender, but McGeady was expecting to have his ankles taken, though the defender missed. I think the first Torres "dive" had a bit of that.

The Evra penalty. Geysir, do you really think it wasn't nailed on? It was as obvious a penalty as you'd see. The only debate was whether the penalty was for the foul by Evra's right leg, or the foul with his left?

Ferguson was also wong about the Smalling penalty on Zhirkov in the league game. Slow replays show Smalling stuck his leg out to trip Zhirkov before hastily bringing it back in. Alan Smith didn't see that commentating for SKY, and got it wrong. Smalling knew it was a penno, you could see it in his face.

Manager interviews are a waste of time anyway, and should not be compulsory imho. Nothing is ever their fault or their players' fault and all they serve as is to act as a tactical tool for someone like Ferguson to put pressure on the refs for thye next game. Man U have got some real lucky breaks from refs lately: Neville's non-red card and non-penalty at WBA, Vidic's non-red card at West Ham, Rooney's non-red card at Wigan (and subsequent non-intervention), Upson's penalty at West Ham (maybe offset by the Evra penalty in the same game), Berbatov's dive v Liverpool (which I only heard about tbh), and the penalty not given at Chelsea. OK, Luiz could have seen red in the league game but if I was counting ref errors in favour and against, the "in favour" column would have way more entries.

Ferguson & Wenger and all of them are just ****s in interviews and do nothing for football's image.

[geysir]

I might be alone in thinking that the Evra/Ramrires looked a 50/50 challenge until the replay shows conclusively that it was a penalty. I can see why the ref honestly didn't give it. In that, I'm in agreement with Ferguson, but I have not got a clue about Man u's debit/credit account on decisions.
Rooney might have deserved a red card for the elbow against our James, but not retroactive punishment.
I haven't seen the rest of the examples you offered:)
Manager's post match interviews are not a reflection of their management. Ferguson's gritty hard working team is a reflection of his management.

[Stuttgart88]

True, I'm a huge admirer of man U and how they play, and how Ferguson has adapted his team's play for the current era, whislt retaining the values that made them so formidable in the 90s.

My only gripe is that these post-match interviews actively promote bad sportmanship, reflect badly on the game and are a really poor example for kids. If football has a PR brain at all, maybe the losing manager should be exepmted from TV or radio interviews until a [24] hour cooling-off period expires. By then, any sense of wrong-doing will only linger if it's been proven that the ref was clearly wrong.

[OwlsFan]

If football has a PR brain at all, maybe the losing manager should be exempted from TV or radio interviews until a [24] hour cooling-off period expires. By then, any sense of wrong-doing will only linger if it's been proven that the ref was clearly wrong.

But the interviews are not for football but for TV and the interviewers usually ask the manager the direct question in order to get the desired reaction, however predictable. "I didn't see it" "A blatant penalty" "There might have been some contact but the lad went down easily" "He went for the ball" etc etc Such has it been, such as it will always be but Ferguson not seeing the Chelsea non-penalty was hilarious while if it had been the other way, he would have been on the pitch, hands in the air, remonstrating with the third official.

[Closed Account 2]

Even if the ref didn't see the Evra - Ramires penalty, the new behind-the-goal linesman had to spot it. I don't know if these behind-the-goal linesmen do anything.

[OwlsFan]

I don't know if these behind-the-goal linesmen do anything.

Purely there to "ensure that the Laws of the Game are upheld, informing the referee of incidents of any kind that he may otherwise have missed, particularly in key areas of the field like the penalty area and its surroundings," but only informing the referee of their observings through a wireless communication system. I still think a camera would be a much cheaper and effective option. Presumably the referee did not "miss" the incident in the box so the assistants do not help.

[geysir]

But the interviews are not for football but for TV and the interviewers usually ask the manager the direct question in order to get the desired reaction, however predictable. "I didn't see it" "A blatant penalty" "There might have been some contact but the lad went down easily" "He went for the ball" etc etc Such has it been, such as it will always be but Ferguson not seeing the Chelsea non-penalty was hilarious while if it had been the other way, he would have been on the pitch, hands in the air, remonstrating with the third official.
Ferguson did not deny seeing it and from his position thought it was a 50/50 challenge. He said he would have to look at the replays to see who did what.
But if it was a break, they (Man U) deserved it.

Ferguson doesn't use that stop watch any more, does he? Isn't that some indicator that he has grown out of a severe bout of persecution complex? or has he just moved the goalposts?

[Stuttgart88]

Arsenal. What a bunch of chokers. Eboue should have his contract torn up. What a fool.

Wenger - what an awful display on the touchline. I'm embarrassed.

I guess Van Persie's yellow card cost Arsenal 30 seconds?

The problem is that Wenger won't see fit to criticise any of his underperforming, lightweight bottlers.

[DeLorean]

It was gas to hear him query why there was so much addition time after Arsenal scored!!

Dalglish is a welcome addition I think, so far anyway. It was a nice touch when he called over the young fella, Flanagan, after the clash of heads with Carragher. He did imply that Arsenal's shouldn't have been a penalty though, which I disagree with. It was soft, but a foul nonetheless.

[shakermaker1982]

I switched over for the last 15 minutes and even when Arsenal went 1 nil up I still thought Liverpool would get one more chance.

Wenger needs to acknowledge his team have a number of weaknesses and address them this summer. Unfortunately he's so far up his own **** he'll still insist his way is the only way to play football and run a football club.

[OwlsFan]

I watched the Stoke vs Bolton game and then turned over to the other game. They were already 5 minutes in to extra time and 0-0. Not much happening here I thought. For once Chris Kamara's "Unbelievable Jeff" might actually have been justified. To be fair to Wenger, I am not sure where the extra 3 minutes came from. Sure there was a goal celebration but since when is time added on for penalties and free kicks? This was new to me. I thought they were all part of normal time. Wenger had a point but as usual he was totally ungracious. I don't go with this you have to be a bad loser to be successful. Take it on the chin and move on.

Impressed by Walters for Stoke. Sure he puts his head down a bit when on the ball but has a good physical presence which we need up front. Delap was as usual anonymous except for the throw ins but then again so was Whelan and he didn't have a throw in. Nice to see them getting to the final though. Wilson did well.