Financial Implications of Euro Exit for Bohs

[Roo69]

good posts mrtndvn. Find it hard to disagree with most your assessments (with the exception that what happened in Derry was not exclusively his fault. Sure he signed a few bangers on a hefty wedge but those signings were sanctioned).

I personally feel he is an excellent manager in a lot of ways but i think that he took his eye off the ball at the beginning of the season after the Dundee United shenanigans. When he should have been bringing the new players that he had signed into the fold and part of the team, he was talking to DUFC. It was always going to be a challenge bringing in that amount of new players anyway but he also lost 2-3 critical weeks of team building and planning. I think it set us back big time and i think he has to accept some of the blame for that. His team selections and tactics this year have baffled me too in a lot of ways. That said, im not too sure there are many over on thebohs.com that agree with me as most are steaming at the crop of imposters that played on Tuesday evening.

Appreciate your posts.

Try getting a team ready for the Premier in less than a week pal, the you might know how diffucult things are

[Rasputin]

Did well in Derry, didn't he?
Brian Clough did well at Leeds didnt he?
Alex Ferguson did well in the 1986 season didnt he?
Marcello Lippi did well at the World Cup this year didnt he?
etc etc etc...
Nutsy is the best manager in the league without a doubt and any club would be lucky to have him as their manager.

[poster]

Nutsy is the best manager in the league without a doubt and any club would be lucky to have him as their manager.

He has easily miles above the best squad in the league. Possibly the strongest in a long, long time. He did well with Shels and Bohs having the strongest teams, but this Bohs squad is one that should be 10 points clear at this stage in this p!ss poor league. He has Raf Cretaro, Jason Byrne and Killian Brennan on the bench ffs!

[Rasputin]

He has easily miles above the best squad in the league. Possibly the strongest in a long, long time. He did well with Shels and Bohs having the strongest teams, but this Bohs squad is one that should be 10 points clear at this stage in this p!ss poor league. He has Raf Cretaro, Jason Byrne and Killian Brennan on the bench ffs!
They have have had a relatively poor season so far indeed, under-performed greatly.
But that is not taking away from the success he has brought to Bohs so far, steering them to their most successfull period in their history not to mention he has already won a major trophy this season.
Its all well and good saying he has the best squad in the country but Shams are not far behind and look how relatively poor they are but then again im not surprised because I dont rate MON as a manager. Sure we could list the bench that Shams have too.
Also it must be noted that just because you have a good squad doesnt mean success, you need a good manager to manage a good squad and Nutsy has proven he can bring success with a good squad.
Lets not forget the likes of Sean Connor who was given alot of money to bring in players and bring success at Bohs but he failed miserably.
Nutsys record speaks for itself.

[poster]

Rasputin, I just think Fenlon should be doing alot better with what he has. I won't go as far as saying he's a chequebook manager, but when you have the resources Bohs have (or maybe won't have now), you should be ahead of the rest by miles. I think Pete Mahon is probably the best manager in the league today, look what he's done with a mediocre bunch of players!

I wouldn't even mention SC in the same sentence as Fenlon or Mahon, he assembled a squad at Dalymount of 'the lads'. Fenlon actually has a talented squad that should be worlds apart points and quality wise.

[RoversHead]

If your club has plenty of cash to build a strong squad than Fenlons your man, but if you live in the real world Pete Mahon would be a better bet,as much as Id like too I cant really blame him for Bohs predicament,the new board seem to have taken the same gamble as the comical Gerry board .Bohs will listen to offers for any of their players according to Pat today and with directors talking about going part time in a matter of weeks I think 9/1 a Bray win is worth a tenner of any mans money.

[Rasputin]

Rasputin, I just think Fenlon should be doing alot better with what he has. I won't go as far as saying he's a chequebook manager, but when you have the resources Bohs have (or maybe won't have now), you should be ahead of the rest by miles. I think Pete Mahon is probably the best manager in the league today,
But you are just judging him over this season which is a big mistake.
He has proven over the past few seasons that he can bring success.
Every team has a dip in form after so much success, its the natural cycle of football.

I think Pete Mahon is probably the best manager in the league today, look what he's done with a mediocre bunch of players!

Well this season he has probably been the biggest success of all the managers.
But that is just this season, his record with UCD was impressive but it certainly wouldnt be "Best manager in Ireland" material.
Lets not forget how he flopped so terribly when he managed Bohs before either.

[SkStu]

Try getting a team ready for the Premier in less than a week pal, the you might know how diffucult things are

Cry me a river, pal. This thread is about Bohs and i gave my opinions.

[SkStu]

sickening behaviour of the players and management team that one Bohs fan witnessed during the week. Sickening.


I think anyone who witnessed the above is still in a state of shock as to the level of vulgarity showed by some of our so called superstars in the airport

Not content with keeping their heads down, Mr Higgins wandered up to the counter at Starbucks and after mulling over the options for about 5 mins a, decided to help himself to a frappacinno with whipped cream and a twizzler. Messrs McGuinness and Cronin ably assisted with Lattes, Rocky Roads and Cookies. Are these guys that divorced from reality and the average fan that they just lounge around an airport showing off their wealth like this

Other player wandered around the shops, picking up toblerones, perfumes and cashmere scarves for their loved ones. No slumming it for our heroes.

Mr Fenlon was in Burger King were your average whopper wasn't good enough for his pallet, as he barked at the staff to remove the cheese and cook it just to his liking.

In another unconfirmed reports its rumoured that an ex top LOI striker, so divorced from financial realties due to biscuit tins and LMS funds that he actually refused airport food and went across the road to the hotel where he quaffed foie gras, a lobster and a truffle risotto, where your average fan was left to count their change in the subway queue across the road

Surely others have similar tales of the vulgarity they witnessed in the airport that they can share with the ever put on support

[dcfcsteve]

Brian Clough did well at Leeds didnt he?
Alex Ferguson did well in the 1986 season didnt he?
Marcello Lippi did well at the World Cup this year didnt he?
etc etc etc...
Nutsy is the best manager in the league without a doubt and any club would be lucky to have him as their manager.

Any club except City...... :D

[Mark]

http://www.bohemians.ie/youth-ladies/ladies-team/787-bohs-women-score-12-in-three-days.html

Maybe Fenlon should have played the ladies team against TNS

[Derry]

Bohs will not be carrying on the deficit budgeting of previous regimes (unlike other clubs we wont try and walk away from responsibilities either) and work already commenced on reversing that trend.
Fenlon was not given a target of reaching group stages so dissapointing as Tuesday night was it is more in a football context and consideration of viability of professional football next season. At no club has Fenlon spent more money than he was allowed (unlike some other managers) so to blame him for financial difficulties is wrong - blame those that sanctioned the spending. Christ sake he was hardly at Derry long enough to do damage even if he tried !!!

Well it did look at the time that he was trying. After all he signed 7 players all on big wages, with only one good enough for the team. When he left he didn't try to sign any of them for Bohs. We went from second in the table at the end of the season, to mid-table in 6 months. His reason for leaving apparently was that he wanted to be closer to his family, yet not too long after he was heading to Dundee. The fact was that Derry supporters were glad to see the back of him. He most certainly is a cheque book manager. his record so far prove that.

However i don't think he really has to sell any players, just tell them from now on they are only employed as players, and that they have to give up their other jobs, ie bar man, grounds man, etc, and that should save some money.

[marinobohs]

Actually Marino I was reffering to the posts in the members forum on bohs.com and Im looking forward to hearing your and SKs views on developements over the coming weeks,A move to part time time football before the end of the season seems to be at odds with your understanding of the situation,will you vote for or against at the EGM next week?

firstly there is no EGM next week (glad your sources are sooooooo credible). The discussion around full time football has been ongoing at Dalymount all season as most of our players contracts expire at the end of the season and we are considering what direction we want to take in the future. given contractural commitments it is very unlikely that Bohs operationwill change much before the season ends.
Given the depth of squad we have - and the poor showing by some newer signings we are open to offers for players. pleas let me know any club that has said it would not sell a player if a decent offer came in ?
When we have an AGM/EGM I will review the options put before the membership and vote for whatever option I think best for the club.

[marinobohs]

Well it did look at the time that he was trying. After all he signed 7 players all on big wages, with only one good enough for the team. When he left he didn't try to sign any of them for Bohs. We went from second in the table at the end of the season, to mid-table in 6 months. His reason for leaving apparently was that he wanted to be closer to his family, yet not too long after he was heading to Dundee. The fact was that Derry supporters were glad to see the back of him. He most certainly is a cheque book manager. his record so far prove that.

However i don't think he really has to sell any players, just tell them from now on they are only employed as players, and that they have to give up their other jobs, ie bar man, grounds man, etc, and that should save some money.

Yep, winning the League by 19 points with the 4th highest budget (and that was before Derrys creative accounting came to light ) sure proves it.:confused:
Do you really want to get into a debate about players and second contracts ?:rolleyes:

[A N Mouse]

Yep, winning the League by 19 points with the 4th highest budget (and that was before Derrys creative accounting came to light ) sure proves it.:confused:
Do you really want to get into a debate about players and second contracts ?:rolleyes:

What so you can tell us Derry were doing it wrong, and if you're going to have second contracts you should do it right, like the big club? :rolleyes:

Or bohs don't do second contracts, but if they did they'd probably be the best...

[marinobohs]

What so you can tell us Derry were doing it wrong, and if you're going to have second contracts you should do it right, like the big club? :rolleyes:

Or bohs don't do second contracts, but if they did they'd probably be the best...

Bohs dont do second contracts but if they did they'd probobly be ........ relegated :cool: check the post I quoted - Derry slagging off Bohs about second jobs, obviously irony lost on some.

[Roo69]

Cry me a river, pal. This thread is about Bohs and i gave my opinions.

And i gave my opinion about Bohs too, whats the problem?

[poster]

This thread is foot.ie at its very best. Yeeehaw!

[dong]

sickening behaviour of the players and management team that one Bohs fan witnessed during the week. Sickening.

Is that a p1sstake Stu?
Hilarious. "They were buying Toblerones I tell ya, fooking Toblerones with their huge wages!!"

[seand]

Is that a p1sstake Stu?
Hilarious. "They were buying Toblerones I tell ya, fooking Toblerones with their huge wages!!"

WHOOSH!

(Might want to turn on the sarcasmometer there bud)

[Dodge]

Fenlon in the press today saying that the "problems at the club" aren't related to the TNS defeat but rather "what being on at the club the last 3/4 years"

Funny thing is he thought this would placate fans.

He's admitted they've been running the club in the wrong manner for years now

[Ezeikial]

It looks like even Pat Fenlon has finally acknowledged the obvious




http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/fenlon-bohs-woe-not-playersrsquo-fault-2272600.html

Fenlon: Bohs woe not players’ fault



Monday July 26 2010


BOHEMIANS boss Pat Fenlon has hit back at the critics – and a section of his own fans – for the reaction to his side’s Champions League exit last Tuesday night, insisting that the club’s current financial turmoil is not down to just one defeat.

Speaking after his side’s win at Bray on Friday night, the former Shelbourne manager labelled a small section of the Gypsies support that travelled to Wales for the second round second leg defeat to The New Saints as “gobs****s.”

He was also unhappy with the treatment of his players after the 4-0 hammering, insisting that the club is now faced with huge cutbacks thanks to financial mismanagement over a number of years, not just the result of one poor performance on the pitch.

“A lot of the stuff that has been said and written about the players and in relation to the club was well over the top,” said Fenlon.

“I was critical after the game and rightly so.

“The players know that and they're their own biggest critics, they know themselves they didn't perform. I think to blame the players for one performance and that the club is in crisis because of that is very harsh.

“That's not the reality. The reality is that the club is in crisis because of what has gone on over a three or four-year period, not one game.”

Despite a turbulent week, the Bohs fans came out in force at the Carlisle Grounds on Friday and Fenlon believes that the positive reaction they received at the Wicklow venue was indicative of the club’s hard-core fan base.

“The genuine supporters at this club have been very good at this club since we've been here and I think they appreciate that this is the best team the club has ever had, in terms of trophies.

“You get the genuine fans here, not some of the gobs****s who were in Wales. They were a minority in fairness. The majority there got behind the team, but here you get the genuine fans who follow us all over the country and they're always good to us.”

[Dodge]

Thanks Ezekial was just going to post it there.

Open admission by Fenlon that the club is in crisis


“ The reality is that the club is in crisis because of what has gone on over a three or four-year period, not one game.”

[Mr A]

Surely it goes back further than 3 or 4 years....

[Ezeikial]

Surely it goes back further than 3 or 4 years....

Cue - Sean Connor vitriol......

[marinobohs]

Cue - Sean Connor vitriol......

...... and cue tired, hackneyed rubbish about "going broke" "relegation" "denied throphy if they win it" etc etc. In fact make it simpler by providing a link to the same nonsence posted last year.
Bohs difficulties accrued over a number of years and will, have to be addressed over a number of years. The sale of Dalymount will be the fulcrum on which the clubs future will be decided but there is also need for more frugal outlays going forward (this has commenced with the wage bill almost halved in little over a year).

[SupaJon]

not some of the gobs****s who were in Wales.

How do the Bohs fans on here feel about that comment?

Was it those who were booing that he's referring to or did something else happen?

[marinobohs]

How do the Bohs fans on here feel about that comment?

Was it those who were booing that he's referring to or did something else happen?

Bohs (like every other club) has some gobsh1tes among its support. On a couple of occasions this season Nutsey has had a go at fans abusing players after poor performances so nothing new.
Incidentially he also said most of the Bohs fans were sound so we all just take it that was us he was talking about :o

[dcfcsteve]

Fenlon in full defensive mode.

Revealiing that the club is in crisis, and it's not just the result of losing to TNS.

Bizarrely calling his own fans "gobsh!tes" and proclaiming that the ones that didn't go to the effort of travelling to Wales are the real supporters....?!

The beginning of the end for Fenlon ? Discuss...

[poster]

He'll be gone by the end of the season. No money, no Fenlon.

[Ezeikial]

...... and cue tired, hackneyed rubbish about "going broke" "relegation" "denied throphy if they win it" etc etc. In fact make it simpler by providing a link to the same nonsence posted last year.

There certainly is a feeling of deja vu alright.

The "relegation" and "denied trophy if they win it" stuff that the Bohs forum was also full of last year, should only get another run if it became apparent that Bohs were in danger of falling foul of the SCP again. For most clubs a brush with this in one year would mean that greater prudence in ensuring compliance the following year. With Bohs though....you just never know (the original budgets being rejected by the FAI do not give any great confidence)




Bohs difficulties accrued over a number of years and will, have to be addressed over a number of years. The sale of Dalymount will be the fulcrum on which the clubs future will be decided but there is also need for more frugal outlays going forward (this has commenced with the wage bill almost halved in little over a year).

The budget may have been reduced (it would be almost impossible to do otherwise in a decling player market), but the fact that Bohs still have the largest budget in the league speaks its own truth.

Your sterling defence of all things Bohemian is admirable to an extent. But part of the problem at Bohs is the refusal to see the reality and to take appropriate action. This responsibility rests with the board, members and supporters in varying degrees

[SkStu]

just a couple of things - prior to TNS we were running at about 50%-55% of the SCP. I dont see how this will have changed drastically considering we rightly werent allowed to budget for Euro progression or winning the title.

We have a long term debt issue. Its considerable. It has been an issue longer than 3-4 years. More like 7-8 but it became worse after the deal to sell Dalymount to Carroll fell apart.

The crux of the issue is how to go about servicing the long term debt. Do we continue to try to make money out of Europe or do we cut our cloth somewhat and build a more sustainable model? The decision has been made a lot easier in a lot of respects by the TNS result (as MB says, the board were considering all options anyway). Moving away from D7 is part of the solution unfortunately. And yes, it is sickening that our ground has been gambled away by fools chasing glory.

We might not win things for a few years and will have to do some things that will hurt but long story short is that we'll be here for the long term and we'll be challenging again.



And i gave my opinion about Bohs too, whats the problem?

it was more about Bray's woes at the start of the season, no?

Dong, the post was a p!sstake. And one that gave me a laugh in an otherwise miserable week.

Ezekial, despite a near 50% reduction from last year, we may still have the highest budget this year, im not sure, but i would guess that Fingal and Shamrock Rovers are not a million miles behind, despite what you would think. And, the reaason for having the high budget is not from our new signings but from our older big money signings who are still in contract. We will be able to slash the budget again next year, thankfully, as they will be out of contract.

[Ezeikial]

Ezekial, despite a near 50% reduction from last year, we may still have the highest budget this year, im not sure, but i would guess that Fingal and Shamrock Rovers are not a million miles behind, despite what you would think. And, the reaason for having the high budget is not from our new signings but from our older big money signings who are still in contract. We will be able to slash the budget again next year, thankfully, as they will be out of contract.

Rubbish - this is part of the reason (same as it was last year, and the year before, and the year before that too). Can you not see that the signings of Cretaro, Greene, Gray, Higgins, McGlynn, Quigley, Murphy, and O'Connor had a little influence on this?

[SkStu]

Rubbish - this is part of the reason (same as it was last year, and the year before, and the year before that too). Can you not see that the signings of Cretaro, Greene, Gray, Higgins, McGlynn, Quigley, Murphy, and O'Connor had a little influence on this?

Ah FFS, would you cop on - im not saying that its the only reason. Or at least thats not what i meant it to say.

Glen Crowe - lets say he was on e2000 per week at Bohs. He then leaves Bohs and we sign Cretaro, Quigley and Murphy on e700 per week. Now we have 3 players costing about the same amount of money as one player previously cost. Brian Murphy was another high earner.

What im saying is, if you take the highest earners out of the equation, then our budget falls into line with other teams. Is it better to keep those players or terminate and pay out on their contract? Its better to keep them obviously, as its going to cost you the same either way and keeping them allows you to absorb the hit over the term of their contract and not in a lump sum.

On another note, does anyone know for definite who has the highest budget in the league this year? It probably is us, id just be interested to see who else is spending what.

[poster]

On another note, does anyone know for definite who has the highest budget in the league this year?

Longford, they just haven't used half of it yet.

[Longfordian]

I know Shamrock Rovers' budget is definitely over a million but how that compares to the rest I don't know.

[Lim till i die]

I know Shamrock Rovers' budget is definitely over a million but how that compares to the rest I don't know.

I would estimate that it is at least 11% bigger than Limericks

[Ezeikial]

Ah FFS, would you cop on - im not saying that its the only reason.


You called it the reason - and it's the only one you gave!



And, the reaason for having the high budget is not from our new signings but from our older big money signings who are still in contract.
b



What im saying is, if you take the highest earners out of the equation, then our budget falls into line with other teams.


Falls in line with other teams? Are you for real?

Maybe you mean after you take out the top 15 earners?




On another note, does anyone know for definite who has the highest budget in the league this year? It probably is us, id just be interested to see who else is spending what.

I am sure you know that it is not published by the FAI, and I am sure you know that it is Bohs

[galwayjames]

I am sure you know that it is not published by the FAI, and I am sure you know that it is Bohs

Wasn't it revealed at the end of last season that Pats spent almost 3 million on players in 2008? Maybe the FAI don't publish them but somebody does know what the figures are.

[dfx-]

I would estimate that it is at least 11% bigger than Limericks

There's Bohs fans who would've taken the opportunity to use 4%...

[Knappagh Red]

Glen Crowe - lets say he was on e2000 per week at Bohs. He then leaves Bohs and we sign Cretaro, Quigley and Murphy on e700 per week. Now we have 3 players costing about the same amount of money as one player previously cost. Brian Murphy was another high earner.
.

If you really believe Cretaro took a pay cut to move to Dublin you are fooling yourself, or maybe Bohs are paying players under the counter

[SkStu]

You called it the reason - and it's the only one you gave!



b


Falls in line with other teams? Are you for real?

Maybe you mean after you take out the top 15 earners?



I am sure you know that it is not published by the FAI, and I am sure you know that it is Bohs

well then you can pretty much say whatever you want about Bohs' or any other clubs budget because no one has the knowledge to counter otherwise. So its all just speculation. Knock yourself out.

regarding the reason i didnt think you would take it so literally that i meant it was the only reason. Do you really think i intended that or that i even thought i would get away with making such a claim? It was just badly written.

[galwayjames]

If you really believe Cretaro took a pay cut to move to Dublin you are fooling yourself, or maybe Bohs are paying players under the counter

I doubt cretaro would've got any bonuses at Sligo....and now that Bohs are out of Europe he won't be getting at Bohs either.

[Derry]

Yep, winning the League by 19 points with the 4th highest budget (and that was before Derrys creative accounting came to light ) sure proves it.:confused:
Do you really want to get into a debate about players and second contracts ?:rolleyes:

At least you haven't denied that Bohs are paying some of their players for jobs other than playing football. The only difference is the FAI threw the book at Derry and rightly so, but they hadn't the balls to do the same with Bohs.

Didn't Ritchi Sadlier tell Fran Gavan that other clubs were doing dual contracts, but Gavan didn't want to know about it. Who do you think he was talking about?

[SkStu]

At least you haven't denied that Bohs are paying some of their players for jobs other than playing football. The only difference is the FAI threw the book at Derry and rightly so, but they hadn't the balls to do the same with Bohs.

Didn't Ritchi Sadlier tell Fran Gavan that other clubs were doing dual contracts, but Gavan didn't want to know about it. Who do you think he was talking about?

we're not paying our players dual contracts. The FAI conducted a thorough investigation of our accounts at Shamrock Rovers request in the off season and nothing untoward was uncovered. The Derry saga would have given the perfect excuse to the FAI to make examples out of Bohemians if they had found anything.

And i guess if Sadlier says it, it must be true.

[Mr A]

The only difference is the FAI threw the book at Derry and rightly so, but they hadn't the balls to do the same with Bohs.



The only difference?

Bohs have overspent, but they have a massive asset and will be able to cover it. They may be selling out their future, but that's their prerogative. Derry massively overspent with no such asset and systematically cheated to cover the fact.

There's a feckin ocean of difference between the two.

[sligo23]

Longford, they just haven't used half of it yet.
They're using it to feed John Lester...

[De Town]

They're using it to feed John Lester...

He's half the man he used to be, definitely lost some poundage since the start of the season.

[Longfordian]

Crowds are down, everyone suffers.

[outspoken]

John lester is a top quality player and a top class bloke. He receives alot of stick from away supporters because of his so called weight but imo John Lester is not fat he is very muscley and well built and he would be a massive loss to the Town if he were to go.

He commands the midfield even when hes playing center half!!!! he's a premier division player no doubt!!!