FAI object to Kierans as Drogs manager

[ClaretnBlue]

The FAI in their wisdom have objected to the appointment of Darius Kierans as first team manager for the Drogs. Objection is based on grounds that Darius has not obtained an A licience even though he is in the process of doing so and will have it completed by October.
The Club backed by its supporters are fully behind the appointment of Darius Kierans as manager and are adamant he remains in the position.

[SkStu]

so they've objected. That doesnt tell ye much. What are they looking for? Him to step down?

if everyone could please open their participation agreements on page...

[Dunny]

Drogs should tell the FAI to go and fudge themselves. Kierans has worked his way up through the ranks and deserves his go tbh.

[dong]

What is the source for this?

[blue til i die]

What is the source for this?

Press Release on behalf of Drogheda United Independent Supporters Club

Date: 10th June 2010

Last week Drogheda United FC appointed Darius Kierans as first team manager for the remainder of the 2010 Airtricity League season. This appointment was welcomed almost unilaterally and by all accounts upon recent evidence on the field it would appear to have been the right decision for the club at the right time.

Supporters and towns-people in particular were delighted with the job going to a not only a local candidate but a well deserving candidate. Kierans has brought victory to the club across the youth set up for the past number of years and has been completing his coaching badges along the way and in fact Kierans is currently close to completing the lengthy process of achieving his UEFA ‘A’ License and will be fully qualified in October.

The FAI are objecting to the appointment on the basis that he does not hold this UEFA 'A' License - deemed necessary to manage a senior football side in the Airtricity League. This is despite the fact that there are cases both at home and abroad where similar situations arose setting an indisputable precedent which should now allow managers to take up their positions while completing their license. It is hugely disappointing that DUFC is faced with this situation at a time when the club is attempting to turn the corner and when clubs and in turn supporters like ourselves need common sense leadership.

This is something which Darius Kierans certainly has and it has certainly come to the fore recently in trying circumstances for Drogheda United. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Kierans must be let continue with the task he was given:

· Kierans performance in the job so far has been exemplary being undefeated in the league

· The first team squad, both young and those more mature, have given Darius their full backing

· Precedent was set in 2009 with Ian Foster while at Galway United

· There is a precedent for this in the UK with several managers not fulfilling criteria outright who were, however, allowed to continue in the role while being given a grace period in which studies were to be completed

· Kierans has brought unsurpassed success to the club across the youth set up for the past number of years

· There are now 6 players in the first team squad who developed under Darius in the youths therefore it makes sense that the next logical step is to bring the coach forward to continue the development of those players and to ensure that more young local players will be given their chance at the top level of football in Ireland

· An extremely popular choice amongst supporters of Drogheda United

The FAI slogan for the league is “Real Football, Real Fans”. DUISC,as real fans, wholeheartedly stand behind Darius and Drogheda United FC and shall not be moved.

Press release ends.

[Spudulika]

I don't see the difficulty in this, why shouldn't he be left as "caretaker" until he completes his licence. One thing is that he's probably not costing the club a whole lot, unless there's some agenda behind the whole thing from the FAI.

[Dodge]

Funny how clubs want the FAI to be untra strict in enforcing their rules until it affects their club. Press release is pathetic too "precedent in the UK"? So what?

[dong]

Funny how clubs want the FAI to be untra strict in enforcing their rules until it affects their club. Press release is pathetic too "precedent in the UK"? So what?

You've hit the nail on the head there Dodge.
Imagine this scenario:
Dundalk and Drogheda are fighting relegation. Dundalk appoint a new manager in the same manner Kierans has been appointed. Dundalk stay up, Drogheda go down.
What would the press release be then?
Pathetic is right.

[dong]

Also, so many other irrelevant bits like what success he has had at youth level. What has that got to do with the issue at hand?
"We shall not be moved" at the end is cringeworthy.

[Enruoblehs]

Is it not significant that the statement is released by a Supporters Club, rather than Drogheda Football Club.

Presumably, the FC cannot be sanctioned by the FAI for a statement issued by a SC ??

btw - Let him stay, he deserves it!

[osarusan]

As far as I know, nobody without the right licence can act as more than a caretaker manager, which has a limit of 12 weeks.

However, it's not beyond the FAI to take a stance directly contradicting a previous stance. What was the precedent set with Foster?

[pineapple stu]

Press release is pathetic too "precedent in the UK"? So what?
Yeah, that caught my eye too. Coaching standards in the UK are - as far as I'm aware - lower than in the rest of Europe (or Western Europe anyway), so it's hardly a standard to hold up. The highest standard (most amount of UEFA A holders) is in Spain, with obvious results in recent years.

[gspain]

You've hit the nail on the head there Dodge.
Imagine this scenario:
Dundalk and Drogheda are fighting relegation. Dundalk appoint a new manager in the same manner Kierans has been appointed. Dundalk stay up, Drogheda go down.
What would the press release be then?
Pathetic is right.

Considering Dundalk were top of the league until last Tuesday night I think they may have other things on their mind rather than worrying about relegation.

[WoodquayBoy]

Emlyn Long is Salthill Devon's manager in evertything but name. He is listed as head coach because he doesn't have the required badges, so he can't be named as manager - that honour falls to Mike Quirke, who does have the necessary badges. Surely Drogheda could find a similar way around this?

[WindmillWarrior]

Seems to be an awful lot of knicker twisting going on over this. And we still haven't seen a source on the story either

[micls]

There's a very small pool of managers in the country with the right qualifications, given how expensive the courses are. It limits clubs options, and pushes up the price of managers.

Personally I think being on the course should be enough, as they have made the commitment and paid the fees.

[marinobohs]

Funny how clubs want the FAI to be untra strict in enforcing their rules until it affects their club. Press release is pathetic too "precedent in the UK"? So what?

Damned if they do....... look, the rules are there they have not changed and it is up to all clubs to abide by them. full stop. not the rules they like, not the rules that suit, all rules. Many of us here have been critical of the FAI for haphazard application of the rules so here I would agree with them.
No problem with Darius and wish him all the best but it must be in accordance with the rules (there are ways to get around this without breaking/ignoring the rule).

[Mr A]

Drogheda so have a point in that precedent s have been set and this guy is obviously well on his way to meeting the qualification.

However, that statement does not read well at all, the second sentence in particular is hilarious.

[ndrog]

Funny how clubs want the FAI to be untra strict in enforcing their rules until it affects their club. Press release is pathetic too "precedent in the UK"? So what?

Nothing pathetic about it , who says clubs want to be ultra strict ? clubs want the fai to act in a fair way towards clubs and use common sense . How was foster allowed to manage galway with the same qualifications as darius ? How is foster being allowed to manage in europe without the proper qualifications ? The supporters club released a statement because it wants answers , i would have expected more from the likes of you . Its your post thats pathetic tbh .

[1st time post]

Considering Dundalk were top of the league until last Tuesday night I think they may have other things on their mind rather than worrying about relegation.


I think he was using it as a hypothetical situation

[osarusan]

How was foster allowed to manage galway with the same qualifications as darius ? How is foster being allowed to manage in europe without the proper qualifications ?

As I understand it, without the correct licence, a manager can only act as a caretaker manager, and for a period of no longer than 12 weeks. Now, I'm very much open to correction on that.


How long was Foster managing for before he got his licence? Did he manage to get it before the 12-week period expired?

Going by the OP above, Kierans won't have finished the course within 12 weeks, as it says he'll have the licence by October.

[pineapple stu]

Foster was managing Galway all of last year. I think when the European problem came about, it was fixed by him saying he was booked on the course, so in fairness to Drogheda, there does seem to be some inequality there. Now maybe the rules got tightened up in pre-season, I don't know.

[osarusan]

Foster was managing Galway all of last year. I think when the European problem came about, it was fixed by him saying he was booked on the course, so in fairness to Drogheda, there does seem to be some inequality there. Now maybe the rules got tightened up in pre-season, I don't know.

Fair enough, if that is correct, then there would seem to be a precedent.

Though I was actually asking how long Foster was managing before he got his licence? Did he get it at all?

[pineapple stu]

He started managing March last year. He hasn't gotten an A Licence yet; he's only booked on a course. I think he's due to have it gotten by the European campaign (which starts next month).

[dong]

Considering Dundalk were top of the league until last Tuesday night I think they may have other things on their mind rather than worrying about relegation.

Wow...
I can't believe you said that.:D:D

[Longfordian]

I've a feeling the rules were tightened pre-season or rather this season was a deadline by which the managers had to have the A Licence. One of the reasons Gareth Cronin left us was that he didn't have the A Licence that he needed and wanted the club to pay for him to do it. And pay his loss of earnings from his job too.

[Dodge]

Think thats it Longford. The FAI gave certain derogations because didn't provide the appropriate course. They do now, so they're (rightly) less lenient.

Drogheda, in my opinion, don't have a leg to stand on

(and I take Windmill's point on board that it could all be just press bluffer).

[Ezeikial]

He started managing March last year. He hasn't gotten an A Licence yet; he's only booked on a course. I think he's due to have it gotten by the European campaign (which starts next month).

Ian Foster completed his A license course earlier this year.


Foster was managing Galway all of last year. I think when the European problem came about, it was fixed by him saying he was booked on the course, so in fairness to Drogheda, there does seem to be some inequality there. Now maybe the rules got tightened up in pre-season, I don't know.

The European requirements are for a Pro-license. UEFA currently require that a manager has commenced the Pro-license course (rather then just being booked on one) to compete in European Club competitions. Ian Foster has commenced his Pro license course with the English FA

My understanding is that the FAI rules require all premier managers for 2011 to hold a Pro-license. Perhaps this is the root of the current reported stance on Darius Kierans - while he appears to have commenced his A license (and technically meets a similar level of compliance to the standards set by UEFA) it may be that it is not possible for him to meet next seasons requirements, and that is influencing the FAI's interpretation of the current regulations.

Because regulations on standards are constantly tightening, quoting past precedents may not be relevant.

[Ciaran W]

Does this mean he cant manage drogheda or will he have to do a course over the break ? I couldn't be bothered reading all the posts.

[prince20]

Does this mean he cant manage drogheda or will he have to do a course over the break ? I couldn't be bothered reading all the posts.

No offence meant but if you couldnt be bothered reading the post why comment?

[Ciaran W]

Because im sure the answer to my question is somewhere in all them posts im just not bothered to read them all

[pineapple stu]

It's 30 posts; just read them. You're only annoying everyone else.

[Schumi]

Does this mean he cant manage drogheda or will he have to do a course over the break ? I couldn't be bothered reading all the posts.

I couldn't be bothered answering.

[Battery Rover]

Full criteria for managers is available http://www.fai.ie/images/stories/2010_Club_Licensing_Manual.pdf on page 74 and for assistant managers on page 75

[thischarmingman]

The FAI are objecting to the appointment on the basis that he does not hold this UEFA 'A' License - deemed necessary to manage a senior football side in the Airtricity League.

*Cringe*

I love the phrase 'this A Licence:' as if the statement was written by a man at a bar who's just had a two-minute run-down on LOI licensing criteria.

[Ezeikial]

Full criteria for managers is available http://www.fai.ie/images/stories/2010_Club_Licensing_Manual.pdf on page 74 and for assistant managers on page 75

The regulations are very clear, and hardly open to interpretation!

Premier Division Manager must hold an A-license (or Pro-License)

Assistant Manager at Premier level or Manager at First Division level is ok if A-license course is commenced - and that is where Darius Kierans is at.

It seems that Drogheda are going to have to appoint someone else, with minimum of A-license until the end of the season.

[Dodge]

Assistant Manager at Premier level or Manager at First Division level is ok if A-license course is commenced - and that is where Darius Kierans is at.

It seems that Drogheda are going to have to appoint someone else, with minimum of A-license until the end of the season.

Or get immediately relegated

[Ezeikial]

Or get immediately relegated

I can assure you Dodge, I was tempted to mention that, but displayed remarkable restraint!!!!!!!!

Maybe Darius will get to manage the Drogs next year after all (even if Pro License is the 2011 PD requirement)

[Acornvilla]

Could they not just carry on for the rest of the season without a manager with Darius being assistant/caretaker?

[Battery Rover]

Could they not just carry on for the rest of the season without a manager with Darius being assistant/caretaker?

No cant be done as there is a duty of notification of significant changes and duty of replacement within 4 weeks. Page 83 PAD 4.01 and PAD 4.02 in the liscensing manual linked to in this thread,

[bullit]

Kierans is rejected as new drogs manager by arbitration committee according to their website

[Dunny]

http://www.droghedaunited.ie/news/2010/june/news_011.html


The Independent Licensing Committee met this evening to consider Drogheda United's submission regarding a derogation to enable Darius Kierans to continue as manager of Drogheda United. The board has just been informed that its submission has been rejected. The club has until the 14th of July to appoint an alternative manager or can appeal the decision within the next five days. The board made strong representations to the Independent Licensing Committee and is naturally disappointed with the decision and will be considering its options over the coming days. The board's request to be represented at the hearing was refused.
We would ask all supporters to turn out in large numbers to the match on Friday night in support of Darius and the team.

[seand]

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with him being allowed to continue for the rest of the season as long as he's started on the course.

Interesting to note though, he's been in charge of Drogs youth teams for years with no coaching badges.

[Dodge]

Interesting to note though, he's been in charge of Drogs youth teams for years with no coaching badges.

Surely he had the requisite badges for that level (which I assume is lower than LOI level)?

[seand]

Surely he had the requisite badges for that level (which I assume is lower than LOI level)?


Probably, but without an A licence. Shows the general Irish (and British) casual attitude to such things. Interesting quote from the Guardian recently...


There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135.


I'd love to know the ratio in Ireland.

[Mark]

I'd love to know the ratio in Ireland.[/QUOTE]

I'd presume the FAI should have that answer........... but chances are they don't know :)

[passerrby]

seems very unfair on the face of it but it must mean that clubs can no longer employ managers without this qualification and if thats the rule at the beginning of the season then nobody can complain. however this in my humble opioion is licensing been giving to much say in football. what next

[osarusan]

Without wanting to incur the wrath of Drogheda fans, if (and I repeat if) the FAI have tightened up the rules regarding coaching badges for managers and made that known to all clubs, then did Drogheda appoint Kierans because they were unaware of it, or because they thought they'd get 'a nod and a wink' from the FAI?

If this is part of a general and transparent move away from 'ah shur you're grand' management so common in this country in general and in the FAI, then I wouldn't criticise them too much over this.

[passerrby]

would agree but are we setting the bar to high to quick, getting your A licence is not easy and the pool of potential managers is not that big

[Jicked]

Is it not the exact same as fielding an illegible player so?

Someone get the asteriks out, we'll have 3 points and a 3-0 win for the game Kierans was in charge at in Tallaght, thanks very much.