Quinn Insurance protests

[dahamsta]

Call me an old tinfoil-hatted conspiracy theorist if you like, but these Quinn protests seem incredibly well organised, the spokespersons seem incredibly well informed on the details, and they also seem incredibly media-savvy in how they deflect and ignore criticism from interviewers. Am I being cynical or is there more to it than meets the eye? Who's organising these people?

[Spudulika]

I don't know dahamsta, the ones who are out front do seem very clued in, however that could be in their training. If you think it's a method for the group to stave off implosion and sanctions, you may be right. The same as the government pushed panic at the passport office and the absolute joke that was Frontline. When you are being told "Think of the children", then there's something up. Something does smell with Quinn, they've been around too long to let anything bad happen.

[Fr Damo]

I agree with your sentiment Dahmasta and this type of thing is exactly why we are where we are.

EG, Quinn emailing ministers & seeking incamera meetings with Mr Elderfielfd rather than looking at the correct channels such as Orachtas hearings etc. Unfortunatly Mr Honohan and the aforementioned have been deployed to mind the horse who lies lame in the next field.

Am I correct, Quinn is worth 2 Billon yet they have guarnteed the borrowings of 4billon against their Group?I'm sorry to all and sundry in Cavan and beyond but what has happened had to happen in the interests of the policy holders (who are taxpayers already getting it up the A4$E)

[Spudulika]

Fr Damo, this is the same Quinn who, along with Seanie the boy and 2 other notable Irish invested in an empty hole in Russia, 2 if you count the one in Moscow. But they paid 100m for a share of a bankrupt and worthless piece of property in an out of the way location in Russia - Ufa. Seanie loaned them the money, and bought into it himself, along with a couple of other headers. They were advised by an Irishman working in a leading Russian bank and I'll be careful what I say next, so instead put up this "proud" link. Anyone visiting Moscow should visit the location of Caspiy, and see who owns it now, and ask how much they bought it for. Our tax money is going on covering this stupidity! Yet it never appeared in the Irish media.

http://www.knightfrank.ru/summary/invest/2007-09/eng/

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/irish-investor-braves-bureaucratic-hitches/192829.html



swamped by the high volume of potential real estate projects nationwide, a representative for one major European investor said. "We are probably going to have around 20 to 30 projects come across the table every week to look at," said Peter Quinn, regional manager for Eastern Europe at Irish firm Quinn Group. The firm is part of a new wave of investors coming from outside the pool of countries that have traditionally worked here. And the influx of aggressive parvenu capital is certainly...




C&W S&R The 20-story, Class A Kutuzoff Tower on Ulitsa Ivana Franko in Moscow was commissioned in September and is already over half let. Irish developer Quinn Group invested $140 million in the project, which has 31,480 square meters of GLA.


None of the projects have been completed up to January 4th. Work on all has stopped and sites sold off at whopping losses.

[bennocelt]

These protests are a joke. "me, me me"
Where is the march for the unemployed!
but good old Quinny he likes to play poker for match sticks - great fella so...................

[OneRedArmy]

Entrepreneur builds company up from scratch, employs thousands, takes on "old establishment" incumbents, shakes the market up, media darling, but overextends, plays fast and loose with corporate governance and the concept of prudence, doesn't understand the difference between their and the company's interests and ignores solvency and other regulatory requirements......

Seanie and Fingers should be hung, drawn and quartered but Quinn is a hero who made a genuine mistake? Puurrrllllleeeeaaaase.

[dahamsta]

Where is the march for the unemployed!

This is actually one major factor that caused me to the post this. The Irish aren't the best for getting up off their holes and protesting about things; the complacency with which NAMA has been treated by Republicans being a prime example. The only people that actually march to Leinster House are the teachers, the farmers and the elderly, and it's only the elderly that have had the energy to do it lately. That's why these protests are absolutely bizarre: they're well organised, they're regular, and they're media savvy. It's almost as if they've been... encouraged or... assisted by a large corporation or marketing agency in some way...

[OneRedArmy]

Just in case anyone believes raiding the Quinn Insurance piggy bank was a one-off, here's a reminder of some other Quinn headlines

http://www.independent.ie/business/european/quinns-uk-glass-plant-to-get-closure-notice-1716693.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1024/breaking52.html

[Macy]

Where is the march for the unemployed!
Whatever about who's organising the protests, the workers are marching so they don't become unemployed, which is fair enough to me. Unfortunately, their anger is totally misplaced. I suppose it is a hard concept to grasp, an Irish Regulator trying to Regulate. Having said that, the timing to coincide with the banking bailout stinks.

btw, were Quinn one of the rival insurance companies that has been moaning and legally challenging the VHI/ The Government about VHI getting exemptions on the solvency ratio's?

[Macy]

I missed all this about Anglo taking shares in Quinn (Thursday night is Soprano's night - while I'm watching that the Gangsters that run this country are screwing me over), and the Quinn family still keeping a stack. WTF. Obviously no supporter of FF will be allowed to go under in this recession, even if it costs the state billions.

[Fr Damo]

[QUOTE=Macy;1344680]Whatever about who's organising the protests, the workers are marching so they don't become unemployed, which is fair enough to me.

At what cost? i.e March to keep me job but screw creditors and policy holders with crappy negotiated downwards payouts?
If Elderfield through the Administrator have to wield a knife to ensure the survival of the group, that must be done. I see Anglo to take a stake now. emmm...

[OneRedArmy]

I've no problem with the employees protesting, given what they've seen happen in the Bank's they are only arguing for the same precedent.

Re your FF point Macy, is there any evidence Quinn is a FF supporter? Whilst I don't know him, I do know people who do, and the view would be that he wouldn't be close to anyone and very much looks after his own interests.

[Spudulika]

Just in case anyone believes raiding the Quinn Insurance piggy bank was a one-off, here's a reminder of some other Quinn headlines

http://www.independent.ie/business/european/quinns-uk-glass-plant-to-get-closure-notice-1716693.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1024/breaking52.html

Quinn diverted funds out of Ireland to try his hand in Eastern Europe. I'm not sure if I have it 100%, but it was Peter who was pushing this and was photo op'ed in a few spots in Moscow 3 years ago. It could be the 2nd generation of wealth acting the maggot and spending what was never theirs, or maybe just poor decision making. For sure they were guided by sharks cloaked in green.

[Macy]

Re your FF point Macy, is there any evidence Quinn is a FF supporter? Whilst I don't know him, I do know people who do, and the view would be that he wouldn't be close to anyone and very much looks after his own interests.
Easy find in google... http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20020512/ai_n12840678/

[OneRedArmy]

Easy find in google... http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20020512/ai_n12840678/Fair enough, let the conspiracy theories roll on!!

[bennocelt]

I've no problem with the employees protesting, given what they've seen happen in the Bank's they are only arguing for the same precedent.

Re your FF point Macy, is there any evidence Quinn is a FF supporter? Whilst I don't know him, I do know people who do, and the view would be that he wouldn't be close to anyone and very much looks after his own interests.

really, have you not lived in ireland for a while????

[Declanus]

Its just Anglo that makes everyone uneasy. Any other bank and you might say give it a chance. Don't blame the employees for lobbying though. We can't afford to loose any more jobs.

[OneRedArmy]

really, have you not lived in ireland for a while????Quinn is a semi-recluse, and as I said would pledge allegience to whoever offered the best deal for him. He's a different kettle of fish to the Galway tent brigade.

[dahamsta]

I was surprised people actually believed Quinn was a supporter of a single party. People like Quinn donate to all the parties. It's not about supporting a political philosophy, it's about laying the groundwork for later,

[bennocelt]

Quinn is a semi-recluse, and as I said would pledge allegience to whoever offered the best deal for him. He's a different kettle of fish to the Galway tent brigade.

Yeah thats obvious, butFF have had power now for yonks and its nice that he was able to get on the phone immediately to his FF buddies so that they could sort it all out for him

[OneRedArmy]

Yeah thats obvious, butFF have had power now for yonks and its nice that he was able to get on the phone immediately to his FF buddies so that they could sort it all out for himmy understanding was Quinn was objecting to the Financial Regulator administration application and the Anglo debt for equity swap?

Anglo are only doing what they are legally obliged to do, maximise their return on their lending. With Quinn Group so leveraged, debt for equity is the logical debt recovery approach from their perspective.

[Magicme]

Was at mass in the Grann in Enniskillen yesterday and Fr Brian D'arcy dedicated most of the prayers to the Quinn group and there were posters up at the church doors in support of them. Think that is taking it a bit far to be honest.

[Mr A]

Can't blame those in the Quinn group for trying to protect their jobs- but what about the people who work for other insurance companies whose jobs may be under threat since Quinn were able to undercut them on price as they were ignoring industry rules. They should be directing their anger towards Sean Quinn as he is the only person responsible for the mess they're in.

[Ash]

They should be directing their anger towards Sean Quinn as he is the only person responsible for the mess they're in.

Don't let anyone from Cavan hear you say that or they'll have your guts for garters!!!
They still think he walks on water and its nobodys business how he turns a profit so long as he's keeping jobs in the County.

[OneRedArmy]

Reinforces the view that a sizeable percentage of the country, when push comes to shove, don't really believe in complying with rules. Cute hoorism still rules ok.

Good high level article on the wider industry view of Quinn

http://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=383660

[Royal rover]

i really hope they come out of administration - do think of the job losses in both counties will have people literally on their knees - cavan has taken an awful hit in terms of property prices - i wouldn't wish this on anyone

[OneRedArmy]

i really hope they come out of administration - do think of the job losses in both counties will have people literally on their knees - cavan has taken an awful hit in terms of property prices - i wouldn't wish this on anyoneThere's no doubt they'll be bought out. Easy way to gain market share in an industry that is still pretty damn profitable throughout the economic cycle.

What that means in terms of jobs down the line I've no idea, not good news I would imagine if its purchased by someone with a sizeable Irish presence already.

[Macy]

I thought Quinn was profitable and it was only silly red tape that was causing the problems... Annual loss of €788million.
http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0910/quinn.html

[Not Brazil]

Sean Quinn declared himself bankrupt this morning in Belfast.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/tycoon-sean-quinn-delcares-bankruptcy-16076123.html

[Macy]

Is there a process by which we can revoke citizenship?

[Dodge]

In making the application in Northern Ireland, Mr Quinn will be free to go back into business after one year, rather than the 12 years required by law in the Republic.


The IBRC has issued a statement saying it is examining the validity of Mr Quinn's application for bankruptcy in the light of his residency and business interests in the State.

The bank said that Mr Quinn and his family, who live in Co Cavan, owe the State, through IBRC almost €2.9bn

Grrrrrrrr!!!!!

[dahamsta]

Hey, at least he has to f*ck off out of our country for that time.

The law is being changed at the moment to make bankruptcy in Ireland less onerous, so saying it's 12 years without mentioning that is a bit tabloid-ey.

[Macy]

To be fair, they've been talking about changing it for years at this stage, and it hasn't been published yet (never mind made law).

Hopefully there'll be a challenge to it going ahead in the UK. I believe Anglo are at least looking in to challenging that. Shows what he actually thinks of the state, given the day he picked to file. I hope all those that protested are proud.

[jinxy lilywhite]

To be fair, they've been talking about changing it for years at this stage, and it hasn't been published yet (never mind made law).

Hopefully there'll be a challenge to it going ahead in the UK. I believe Anglo are at least looking in to challenging that. Shows what he actually thinks of the state, given the day he picked to file. I hope all those that protested are proud.

No you still get it over there. "you dont know what hes done for the area" and all that. quite militant actually

[dahamsta]

People are blind when it comes to people like that. Look at Lowry, a corrupt idiot, and they still love him in Tipp.

[horton]

So he's now also lost his bankruptcy from NI and out of business for 12 years. What way does it work now though, if he's "bankrupt" how can he be expected to pay the legal fees derived from this Court case?

http://www.u.tv/News/Quinns-NI-bankruptcy-annulled/aef972e4-cc8f-4be5-90ed-0f1bfbd2b098


Businessman Sean Quinn has said the former Anglo-Irish will never get back the money it's owed, after the bank won a legal challenge to have his bankruptcy in Northern Ireland annulled.





http://aka-cdn-ns.adtech.de/images/Default_Size_16_1x1.gif (http://adserver.adtech.de/?adlink|657|1838001|0|16|AdId=-3;BnId=0;itime=216543348;)

Following a ruling by judge Mr Justice Deeny that the Co Fermanagh man's business dealings were centred in the Republic, Mr Quinn was declared ineligible for bankruptcy north of the border.
It means he now faces a 12-year disqualification from business, rather than the 12-month period which follows bankruptcy in Northern Ireland.
Asked outside the High Court in Belfast if the bank - since reconstituted as the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation after its collapse - would ever recover the billions it's seeking, Mr Quinn told reporters: "Not at all. How would they get it back? Sure they have the company destroyed. Absolutely destroyed."
He added: "They've destroyed the company and it's costing the country and the taxpayer and our family billions - one of the worst decisions made and any fool would know that."
I hereby annul the bankruptcy order of November 11 2011, obtained by Sean Quinn - on the ground that it should not have been made as the centre of the debtor's main interests was not in Northern Ireland at the time of bringing the petition, but within the jurisdiction of the High Court in Dublin.
Mr Justice Deeny

Once worth a reputed €4.72bn, Mr Quinn's business empire collapsed over the past two years after he purchased bank shares which became worthless.
Receivers were installed and he and his family lost any role in the management of the Quinn Group, before he undertook insolvency proceedings in Northern Ireland in November.
The 65-year-old has since been hit with two separate judgments of €1.74bn and €416m by the Commercial Court in Dublin over loans from Anglo.
The bank wants Mr Quinn - a taxpayer in Northern Ireland but who, by agreement, paid 20% tax in the Republic - declared bankrupt in the Republic, in a bid to recover the money it's owed.
Mr Quinn, who has lived in the Republic for 32 years and holds only an Irish passport, has always argued that he works solely in Northern Ireland, at an office in his native Derrylin in Co Fermanagh.
But that claim, disputed by the bank, was not accepted by the judge.
Mr Justice Deeny said Mr Quinn had not declared the office lease in his initial application to the court and added: "I conclude, on the balance of probabilities, that this lease has been prepared at some much later date to try and bolster the case now being made."
The judge ordered Mr Quinn to pay the legal costs of both the bank and the Official Receiver.
Outside court, Mr Quinn denied ever seeking to mislead anyone and said: "I never did a day's work from southern Ireland in my life.
"I never did a day's work in my home (in the Republic). I never had any computers, I never had any IT system. Everything was always done from Derrylin.
"There was never any question of me deceiving the court and there was never any need for me to deceive the court."
Mr Quinn said he didn't know if he would now be declared bankrupt in the Republic and that he was being made a scapegoat by the bank.

© UTV News

[Macy]

So he's now also lost his bankruptcy from NI and out of business for 12 years. What way does it work now though, if he's "bankrupt" how can he be expected to pay the legal fees derived from this Court case?
As far as I'm aware, the bank formally known as Anglo is also challenging the assets he's claiming to have, and the validity of many of the transfers made (for the likes of a lap top!) to his family. iirc even the court appointee in the North wasn't convinced on the asset front.

[Dodge]

He's suggesting this decision is costing his family billions, biollions which he owes the Irish state


They've destroyed the company and it's costing the country and the taxpayer and our family billions

[Spudulika]

Quinn's family still have substantial holdings abroad, bought with overinflated loans from the crooks in the Irish banks.