Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up [Archive] - Page 5

The Lep

13/10/2010, 4:53 PM

I couldnt say what contracts the players are on but it wouldnt have been outside the budget if there are a few contracted for next year. Between the end of a season and the start of the next season we always see the transfer merry go round of players so we will see then who is out of contract and will be leaving and coming in. Our A championship side have some decent players as well as the under 20's and could so some of them could step up to fill in any places. It might be a weaker team next year if there is wholesale changes but there will be a team that will fight for league . Who knows how we will do next year, we could have the same team with some new faces and challenge again for the league or have a weaker side that will fight off the relegation or get relegated but we wont be the first team in the history of the league to do that nor will we be the last.
But to the dissapointment of some ,there WILL be a Sporting Fingal side in the league for a long time yet so dont get your hopes up just yet :).

Lamper.sffc

13/10/2010, 6:10 PM

You can forget your Anglo Irish banks (only sponsored us year 1 btw), your gannons, your Councils. If UCD Fail to exist then neither will fingal, due to the fact we take all their good players ;). So I for one am hoping UCD are around for a long time :D

PS. Im sure we have our eye on that Kilduff lad

harleyleeds

13/10/2010, 6:50 PM

SupaJon

13/10/2010, 8:33 PM

legendz

13/10/2010, 10:41 PM

I think they are missed. We are getting a good battle for the league which is great but there is a lack of big games in front of big crowds which the Premier Division does need as well. A few weeks ago instead of watching Fingal and Pat's in the Morton, Cork vs Derry in either's ground would've looked far better and be a better advertisement for the Premier.
Still though life has gotten on without them and it has been a good season but the Premier would be better with them there on merit and properly run.

micls

14/10/2010, 2:19 AM

Micls,
Football is about entertainment and atmosphere. If you have had the pleasure of attending a game in Monaghan recently you'll find both in fairly short supply. If crowds improve, armosphere improves and similarly the standard of fare on offer normally does likewise.

Is it? If football was about entertainment and atmosphere then last season we would have had 0 fans. Football is about identifying and supporting your local team. It can be incredibly boring, most clubs dont have a great atmosphere every game, but it's part of what you are, so you go and you support YOUR team. And when the good times and entertainment comes it's all the sweeter.

For any die hard football fan it's about a lot more than entertainment and atmosphere. To casual fans and teenagers you may be right.

None of the above shows any reason for excluding Monaghan though. If we excluded every club that wasn't entertaining or had a good atmosphere then we'd be left with about 3 clubs a year.

White Horse

14/10/2010, 7:59 AM

I don't think the Premier division has suffered too badly from the absence of Cork, Derry & Shels (apart from losing the bigger attendances they bring).

The title is going down to the wire.
The race for Euro spots ditto.
And the relegation battle has been quite exciting (for those of us involved in it).

Much better than other very predictable leagues not a million miles away.

And the First Division has been given a big boost from having some good quality teams in there this season.

The division has been exciting this year whith battles in all parts of the division. Most teams have had a rollercoaster of a season with a mixture of good runs and poor runs.

I certainly don't miss the soap operas of Tom Coughlan and the Derry City board diverting attention away from the football.

pineapple stu

14/10/2010, 8:49 AM

I don't think the Premier division has suffered too badly from the absence of Cork, Derry & Shels (apart from losing the bigger attendances they bring).
Also, I think the First Division is much the better, for the same reasons you mentioned (half the league still in with a chance of promotion)

Macy

14/10/2010, 9:14 AM

Please explain why the money Fingal got from the developer and council "skews things badly" when it was OK for Pats (for example) to be bankrolled to a much greater extent ? It is up to each club to decide how much they will spend on wages irrespective of what other clubs are doing. many of the clubs you feel have no place in the new world order did not join the "wage race" and have/will outlasted many of the traditionally bigger clubs.
Yes and no. It obviously skews things if clubs are spending money they can't generate themselves. At the moment the unsustainable clubs spending keep getting replaced by other clubs using the same model, so there is no chance for the well run club to achieve on field success.

However, it is the FAI that should be clamping down on this through licencing. Derry and Cork both could've been avoided with proper controls - Cork in particular where the licencing process really let the clubs supporters down.

marinobohs

14/10/2010, 9:38 AM

Bohs are a big club based on decades of amateur status and re-applying to join the league? Sorry, don't agree. Sure even the older Rovers fans will tell you the Bohs/Rovers rivalry is a recent invention, borne of Drumcondra's demise and Bohs finally starting to win some games around the 80s.

The things that Shels brought to the league - crowds of 2000, full-time football, former internationals, European success - were all a direct result of their unsustainable overspending. That was never going to keep up, so to have had it stopped can't really be considered a loss to the league. Ditto Bohs, by the way.

You can take the moral high ground with your "aspiring" all you want; we've seen what's happened each and every LoI club to aspire to unattainable dreams.

Bohs - established 1890 as a members club (approx 115 years before shams "discovered" the model).
never relegated

11 League titles (7 before 1980s)
7 FAI cups
3 League cups
1 Irish Cup
1 Setanta Cup

Wont bother mentioning the myriad of other trophies won over the last 120 years (data available on request). "Old rovers fans" probobly not the best source of information about Bohs but explains where you are coming from (by the way, do they let you keep the Hooperman outfit during the week or do you have to give it back between games ? :rolleyes:)

Each to their own I suppose but I would prefer to go to a game with a decent crowd generating a bit of atmosphere than bean counting in the company of six people and a dog,

pineapple stu

14/10/2010, 10:05 AM

Bohs - established 1890 as a members club (150 years before shams "discovered" the model.
Rovers became a members' club in 2040?

never relegated
Surprised you had the gall to post this given the state your club's in.

the myriad of other trophies
You can't say "myriad of" any more than you can say "the many of trophies"

Each to their own I suppose but I would prefer to go to a game with a decent crowd generating a bit of atmosphere than bean counting in the company of six people and a dog,
Have you seen the crowds Shels are getting lately?

Anyway, that's by way of digression. The Premier Division won't miss Bohs. And you also ignored quite a lot of the points I made.

marinobohs

14/10/2010, 10:20 AM

Rovers became a members' club in 2040?

APOLS for error - edited accordingly (point still as valid)

Surprised you had the gall to post this given the state your club's in.

Talking abouts facts and it remains one

You can't say "myriad of" any more than you can say "the many of trophies"

Yawn ! 7 leagues before we "won a few games in the 80's ????????????

Have you seen the crowds Shels are getting lately?

Still bigger than some prem club gates

Anyway, that's by way of digression. The Premier Division won't miss Bohs. And you also ignored quite a lot of the points I made.

Didnt know Bohs had been relegated ?when ? why?. Keep your wishfull thinking for your letter to Santa or posters here might suspect you have an agenda ;)

Dodge

14/10/2010, 12:13 PM

A few weeks ago instead of watching Fingal and Pat's in the Morton, Cork vs Derry in either's ground would've looked far better and be a better advertisement for the Premier.

Really, even if the football was terrible? Better surroundings certainly but how many Cork fans would've travelled to Derry for a 1pm kick off? You can't just pick one (or 2) game(s) on TV in front of poor crowds and say thats the proof the Division is missing some teams.

If Cork or Derry deserve to be in the premier next year, they'll be there.

Macy

14/10/2010, 12:36 PM

Bohs - established 1890 as a members club (approx 115 years before shams "discovered" the model).
never relegated
Lets hope it works out better for Shamrocks...

legendz

14/10/2010, 12:39 PM

I would consider myself to be an outsider to the Premier and First Division, coming from a region not represented in either division. When I watch a top flight game, while hopefully enjoying the game, I look at it in terms of promotion of the league as well. If it was Pat's home game it would have looked better.
I'm not looking at picking one or two games in front of TV to say the league is missing some teams, teams are there on merit but I do feel Derry and Cork are missed for what their fans do bring to the league, just my own view on it.

Dodge

14/10/2010, 12:53 PM

But you say you're watching it as an outsider.

As someone on the inside, let me tell you they're not missed at all ;)

bennocelt

14/10/2010, 12:53 PM

Micls,
Football is about entertainment and atmosphere. If you have had the pleasure of attending a game in Monaghan recently you'll find both in fairly short supply. If crowds improve, armosphere improves and similarly the standard of fare on offer normally does likewise.

.

Its not about entertainment at all, you go to football because that's what you have to do. if you want excitment stay at home and rent a dvd. I get enjoyment in all kinds of football games, even a 0-0 has something to please.
As for atmosphere, I have to say that LOI grounds on matchday have good atmosphere, with cool banners, flags, singing, etc. No matter if there are only a few hundred the LOI definitely doesn't lack atmosphere. - having said that I havent been to Mervue or S Devon! I have been to grounds with over 50,000 at a game with no atmosphere at all. Again its not all about numbers but about passion, and LOI supporters certainly have that in buckets.

legendz

14/10/2010, 1:47 PM

Most grounds have a good atmosphere on match-day. I watched the Kerry League take on Waterford United in March 2008 when we knocked them out of the League Cup on a shoot-out. Was a good day!

Spudulika

14/10/2010, 5:56 PM

While few might agree with me, I'd like to thank Big Chief for bringing out the logic in posters - that if clubs are there because of merit then let them play. On too many posts I've been sickened by "fans" running down clubs for any number of reasons, and this one upmanship kills me. I'm glad to see fellow Dundalk supporters point out the obvious, because it was 10 years ago when I stood in Oriel watching miserable 1st Division football in front of miserable crowds where not even a Dundalk win was enough to warm the heart. I fully supported the idea of SF, and I still do, they're working along the European model, something that Shamrock Rovers are attempting to do (sorry, I should say doing). For anyone who has lived or is living in Germany (for example) they'll know how the local hierarchy works. The feed up system for players works well and young players have no worries about dropping down from a Bundesliga sides academy aged 19 (again for example) to play 2nd, 3rd or Regionaliga, as the development system works - hence time and again the Germans shock the "experts" by turning it on and reaching the last 4.

Fratricide is common in Ireland, more than in any other country I've lived in. This willingness to absolutely and totally turn on your neighbour may not erupt in generational wars like in ex-Yugo, however taking a look at RTE any evening and the whipping up of fury by the media between groups or against groups, it's not funny. What the league, and football, in Ireland has been crying out for has been unity, complete unity. Little outbursts punctuate the yearlong bouts of self-loathing and feuding that characterise football in Ireland. There is no quick fix, just good leadership and direction from bottom and top.

oriel

14/10/2010, 8:58 PM

which has seen us break the record for the longest period in Irish football's bottom flight.

.

I would never have thought that, makes our 7 years down seem like a career break ! Also I would have thought Athlone would have been there longer, I know Mons came up with us the first time in 2000/01. Decent enough website btw http://limerickfc.ie/home/home.html.

I`d love to see the likes of Limerick, Athlone & Finn Harps back up on merit and playing their part in a strong 16 team PD.

SkStu

14/10/2010, 10:06 PM

John83

14/10/2010, 10:35 PM

Someone should collect "Pineapple Stu is biased against my club" posts. We must be close to the whole set at this stage.

legendz

14/10/2010, 10:53 PM

It's a ridiculous statement. Bohemians are a big club, goes without saying. 11 league titles they have, 4 in the 2000's.
Sunderland consider themselves a big club across the water, they've 6 league titles, their last coming in '35-'36. Bohemians won the league that same season '35-'36 but have added 2 in the 70's as well as the four over the last 10 years. Even if Boh's had not won their last 6 titles, they are a big club.

I would never have thought that, makes our 7 years down seem like a career break ! Also I would have thought Athlone would have been there longer, I know Mons came up with us the first time in 2000/01. Decent enough website btw http://limerickfc.ie/home/home.html.

I`d love to see the likes of Limerick, Athlone & Finn Harps back up on merit and playing their part in a strong 16 team PD.
Is there really a possibility of the Premier being expanded to a 16 team division? Based on current status and 2 or 4 clubs being brought up from the A Championship to join Division One, the league could look like:

Premier Division (16)
Bohemians
Shamrock Rovers
Sligo Rovers
St Patricks Athletic
Sporting Fingal FC
Dundalk
UCD
Galway United
Bray Wanderers
Drogheda United
Derry City
Monaghan United
Waterford United
Shelbourne
Limerick 37 FC
Cork City FORAS

Division One (8 or 10)
Wexford Youths
Finn Harps
Longford Town
Athlone Town
Mervue United
Salthill Devon
Cobh Ramblers
FC Carlow
Tralee Dynamos
Castlebar Celtic

Schumi

14/10/2010, 11:12 PM

Is there really a possibility of the Premier being expanded to a 16 team division?

These rumours come up every year, I wouldn't hold your breath.

SwanVsDalton

15/10/2010, 12:39 AM

Probably won't work - 16 team Premier League looks like the Pro Evo Master League and I always botched my finances in the Master League.

Spudulika

15/10/2010, 7:29 AM

Until the FAI and clubs get their respective and collective acts in order there won't be any such progressive measures. As we'd discussed on another thread, a closed league is never going to bring in the finances that a proper and functioning league system would.

bingoballs

15/10/2010, 8:20 AM

legendz

15/10/2010, 8:50 AM

pineapple stu

15/10/2010, 9:17 AM

Someone should collect "Pineapple Stu is biased against my club" posts. We must be close to the whole set at this stage.
And I was going to change the line above my avatar too.

Have to laugh at the point about Sunderland claiming to be a big club on the basis of a couple of titles. It doesn't matter what they claim; it's what's reality that counts.

marinobohs

15/10/2010, 9:52 AM

This makes no sense. I don't know is this a pathetic attempt of a wind up or are you just a d1ck suffering from small club syndrome just being bitter? I'm no fan of the Gypos but they have* and will always be a big club in Irish football. Sames goes for Shams, Dundalk, etc.

* The past 60-70 years

to be fair to Stu there is a germ of truth in his (pretty sad) version of Bohs history in that we were amatuer until approx 1969 when the club voted to go "semi pro" (Hon life President and still a club stalwart Tony O'Connell having the honour of the the first contract*) . In this we were years behind many other clubs and results in the 60's were poor with the club often finishing last and applying to retain Div 1 status. Indeed in the 1960s it would be fair to say Drums were the more prominent north Side club and had a Northside/southside rivalry with shams.

No club - including shams - have been a dominant power throughout their league career and certtainly not over one that lasted 120 years (and counting). bohs has evolved from 7 guys establishing a team in the Phoneix Park because they enjoyed a kick around through a variety of set ups -amateur, semi pro, full time etc. the club has never been relegated, not bad for a small club that is 120 years old !

if I or anyone were to descride shams history solely in the context of the events around 2004/2005 it would be a long way from the (through gritted teeth) illustrious history of the club and would diminish us more than it did shams.

Perhaps the fact that Stus prediction of relegation/bankrupty etc over the last couple of years have still not occured is the basis for the somewhat petty view of Bohs history ?

* no record available of whether the contract involved bar work :o

Spudulika

15/10/2010, 10:53 AM

If the Premier was expanded to 16, it doesn't have to result in a closed league. There'd still be relegation to Division One and the A Championship. A league should offer a position where clubs can get a foothold in the league and look to build. Places 9th - 12th probably would offer that in a 16 club Division where if clubs advance they'd look at pushing up the table but it they fall back they'll face relegation battle.

Legendz, is there promotion and relegation on a structured basis from a pyramid structure of senior leagues in the FAI family? If not then it is a closed league by definition, the same as the pre-reformation structure in the English game. It isn't a coincidence or even Sky's influence that the English game has grown since 1987, when a proper pyramid was introduced. Before that it was (worse) than what we have in Ireland. However, this isn't about the wrongs of the current system, it's about how clubs survive. And I don't see FCC letting SF go since it would seriously affect their future attempts for funding.

Mr A

15/10/2010, 10:56 AM

Surely given that any club that meets the (not very taxing) criteria can join the A-League, it couldn't be more open?

The Lep

15/10/2010, 12:38 PM

No disrespect to Fingal fans but I wouldn't be sorry to see them going belly up. Whats their average home attendance? When they went 2-1 up against Shams in a Dublin derby in Tallaght you would imagine their fans would have gone mad, all eight of them did alright! Surely they are relying on European qualification to fund themselves for next season. They have a handful of fans and should they qualify for Europe, they would only be depriving Sligo Rovers or Pats fans a European adventure that their seasons truely deserve.

Are you seriously saying that Sligo and St Pats deserve a euro spot just because they have more fans? Trust me, there was more than eight fans going mad :) Are you still upset that Sporting Fingal won the cup last year? time to move on me thinks :)

Mod edit - "bitter" rubbish removed

Spudulika

15/10/2010, 12:39 PM

Surely given that any club that meets the (not very taxing) criteria can join the A-League, it couldn't be more open?

No, by definition it's a closed league. As it stands a new club can just set up and ask to join, which is probably why this thread has legs.

pineapple stu

15/10/2010, 12:43 PM

No, by definition it's a closed league. As it stands a new club can just set up and ask to join
You've directly contradicted yourself there.

Googling "closed league" gives the following as the first reply (http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/Closed_league) -

A closed league is a type of league where the number and the identity of the teams taking part in its activities do not change from year to year according to the performance of the member teams of that league and of other. They are the opposite of the promotion and relegation systems.
That's clearly not the case in the LoI, as the last couple of seasons have shown (three new clubs to the top two flights in as many years, for example, with only the first in a year when there was no promotion/relegation at the bottom of the First Division)

legendz

15/10/2010, 12:48 PM

Exactly, it's up to the clubs to apply and meet the criteria. Any club incapable of getting a not very taxing A Championship licence isn't really going to get anywhere. Killarney in Kerry could apply if they wanted and set-up a rivalry with Tralee!

Lamper.sffc

15/10/2010, 12:56 PM

No disrespect to Fingal fans but I wouldn't be sorry to see them going belly up. Whats their average home attendance? When they went 2-1 up against Shams in a Dublin derby in Tallaght you would imagine their fans would have gone mad, all eight of them did alright! Surely they are relying on European qualification to fund themselves for next season. They have a handful of fans and should they qualify for Europe, they would only be depriving Sligo Rovers or Pats fans a European adventure that their seasons truely deserve.

Ah lad give it a rest will ya. There was about 80 or more there. We have a small crowd but whats the point in saying there was 8. It was never the case. 40 or 50 of us stayed and sang till the lads came back out for their warm down after the match. Now the debate in here is actually interesting lets not head down this route for once cheers.

The Lep

15/10/2010, 1:24 PM

Going on the league re-structure, the pyramid system could work easily enough. The winners of the Provinicial leagues playing in play-offs for 1 or 2 places in the A championship, the bottom 1 or 2 in the A championship either straight relegation to the relevant Provincial league or a play off like the Premier/first relegation one. The A side of a league club would be elligible for relegation and it would be something along the lines of what the Spanish league does with the B teams in the third tier.

legendz

15/10/2010, 1:48 PM

The senior/district leagues are run on a different season. I can see a place for a provincial pyramid system within the current structures but no need to expand it to the national league unless they align both seasons.

Schumi

15/10/2010, 2:12 PM

the club has never been relegated, not bad for a small club that is 120 years old !

In fairness, it didn't take much effort to not get relegated up to 1986.

PartySaint

15/10/2010, 2:24 PM

In fairness, it didn't take much effort to not get relegated up to 1986.

Still a good achievement for the clubs who have yet to be relegated:)

The Lep

15/10/2010, 2:28 PM

Fingal have never been relegated either :)

PartySaint

15/10/2010, 2:29 PM

Fingal have never been relegated either :)

It only counts if you been around for more than 5 minutes;)

The Lep

15/10/2010, 2:35 PM

A game is 90 minutes so we qualify :)

Spudulika

15/10/2010, 5:29 PM

You've directly contradicted yourself there.

Googling "closed league" gives the following as the first reply (http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/Closed_league) -

That's clearly not the case in the LoI, as the last couple of seasons have shown (three new clubs to the top two flights in as many years, for example, with only the first in a year when there was no promotion/relegation at the bottom of the First Division)

Point taken and I welcome your pedantic reply, however if you are trying to claim the league is not a closed one, then maybe a better term can be coined for the half-way house we have in Ireland which only serves to keep status quo and be unproductive in terms of investment, sponsorship and development. Legendz, it's not a reflection on the ambition or lack thereof a club possesses that they don't apply for an A licence. There are far more worthy clubs in the country than those in the A Championship, or even in the 1st Division, especially in terms of crowds and how they're run, however it makes no sense in such a poorly structured system to bother with the A championship - if they withdrew (as the case is for one senior club I know) from the LSL and play the reserve teams of EL premier teams, it's not going to do anything for them. As The Lep mentioned, a pyramid could work easily, sure it would take aligning the seasons, though this would also be possible. However what is the way to go - go back to a winter season or everyone goes to a summer season.

John83

15/10/2010, 5:38 PM

Point taken and I welcome your pedantic reply...
He wasn't pedantic, Spud, he was right. If you want to complain about the lack of a football pyramid in Ireland, do so, but don't use the wrong word for it and then bitch when people don't understand you.

SkStu

15/10/2010, 6:51 PM

John83 rides to the rescue again!

Fivesilver

16/10/2010, 12:17 PM

Identity is important. If regions don't have a club they can identify with, the game will suffer. I could never imagine Mayo supporting Galway or Sligo, at least they have some foot on the football ladder now with Castlebar.

When I lived in Ireland, the lads I used to meet at every away match included a couple of die-hard Rovers fans from Swinford. There was also a gang from Leitrim (Manorhamilton) as well as lads from Roscommon (Boyle and Castlerea - among the latter being one Luke Flanagan, now better known as Ming).